Exporting Colombian Violence and Murder ?

goin_south says on Apr 14, 2007, 23:06:

Life is full of risk and chances; I guess sadly, that she must have miscalculated a bit;
I have a recent client, who is a lady of 63, single and building a big playhouse up on a hill in Costa Rica, with plans already to sell it in a few years and make big profit. I bet she'll make it. What a difference a few hundred miles and a few small countries away can make.

I hope she was enjoying her venture up to the end. I have said before here, about matters of money... when people are on the up and up, many times, 'Enough'.... is never, ever enough, and people are driving to make more and more, to offset, I think, the fear of losing ground in that battle.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 14, 2007, 23:09:

Hey poco... I know, it's next door, but.... WHENCE? the title: Exporting Colombian??? violence/murder.

and, thank you.

billyb says on Apr 14, 2007, 23:11:

I was wondering the same... thing Infeliz.

poco says on Apr 14, 2007, 23:24:

Hummm, not like me to leave out all the info. Exporting Colombian???

Panamanian authorities are searching for three Colombian men in connection with the murder.

Anyway, this statement was in the second or third paragraph of the linked document.

Give me a break. I had to do a search to find an article containing relevant ties.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

wcarmack says on Apr 14, 2007, 23:44:

One news account Lawsuit may hold key to murder
Authorities investigating whether socialite's death is connected to court battle over $1M in land
Saturday, April 14, 2007
By PETER N. SPENCER and FRANK DONNELLY
STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE

Panamanian authorities are seeking connections between a protracted legal battle that Toni Grossi Abrams waged against a Panama City lawyer and the Staten Island socialite's brutal murder this week, according to several sources familiar with the investigation.

Those sources said Mrs. Grossi Abrams -- whose charred and dismembered body was found in a Panama City soccer field hours after she was reported missing from her nearby apartment Tuesday -- had recently won a lawsuit against Angela Healy Watkins, who sold Mrs. Grossi Abrams a parcel of land on the Pacific island of Contadura three years ago. Mrs. Grossi Abrams charged that Ms. Watkins, who is reportedly well-connected in Panamanian politics, sold the land to another buyer after Mrs. Grossi Abrams already had paid for it.

Mrs. Grossi Abrams' cousin, Panamanian businessman Seth Redlich, said she incurred more than $300,000 in legal fees in an attempt to keep the land, which is reportedly worth well over $1 million. Based on recent Panamanian court rulings, it appears Mrs. Grossi Abrams was close to, or had finally won her legal struggle with Ms. Watkins.

Ms. Watkins is reportedly the first cousin of Jose Allemagne, a former Panamanian presidential candidate.

Redlich, who said he has been in constant contact with Panamanian officials conducting the investigation, said the timing of the murder seems to be more than a coincidence.

"I believe there is some connection [to the lawsuit]. There are a lot of people who are not unhappy [Mrs. Grossi Abrams] is dead," said Redlich.

"Something very strange is going on here," he added.

SUSPECTS IDENTIFIED

Police say Mrs. Grossi Abrams -- who would have turned 58 Wednesday -- was beaten to death early Tuesday, then partially dismembered and stuffed in a suitcase before she was brought to the field about three miles away and set on fire. Her corpse, propped against a building, was spotted by a group of children playing soccer.

The apartment manager told police he saw a woman -- later identified as an American who rented the apartment above Mrs. Grossi Abrams -- and a young man leave the apartment carrying a large suitcase at around 2 a.m.

That woman, Debra Ann Ridley -- who is deemed a primary suspect by police -- and two Panamanian citizens, now identified as Nadia Staff Pitti and Alonso Marshal Gordon, are in custody. The Panamanians were caught on a video surveillance tape Wednesday attempting to pick up suitcases left behind by two Colombian men in a hotel near Mrs. Grossi Abrams' downtown apartment, sources said.

Police are still seeking those two Colombian men in connection with the murder. They apparently hired the two Panamanians to pick up their suitcases, which contained personal effects, at the hotel.

Ms. Ridley has not been cooperating with authorities, according to sources close to the investigation.

Sources who have visited the murder scene said it also appears Mrs. Grossi Abrams' attackers had meticulously cleaned her apartment after they murdered her -- but missed some blood on a carpet. A city medical examiner later matched that blood with blood found near the corpse.

Officials have promised a comprehensive investigation into Mrs. Grossi Abrams' slaying, headed by a president-appointed task force and utilizing several international law enforcement agencies. They have set up roadblocks and checkpoints throughout the country in hopes of capturing the two fugitives.

REACTION AT HOME

Rep. Vito Fossella (R-Staten Island/Brooklyn) said he was assured in talks with William A. Eaton, the American ambassador to Panama, and Eaton's Panamanian counterpart, Federico A. Humbert, that the probe would be given priority. He also said Eaton had offered Humbert "the support of the FBI, if necessary."

"I knew Toni," the congressman said, adding he would monitor the investigation closely. "She was a lovely lady, a sweetheart. This is just brutal."

An FBI representative in Panama said the agency would get involved in the probe "only if requested by the host country." He declined to say whether such a request had been made.

Closer to home, a chill wind blew yesterday afternoon off Upper New York Bay, swirling around the 10-story Bay Street Landing condominium in St. George where Mrs. Grossi Abrams lived. Locked gates prevented a reporter from approaching the building and security personnel said media would not be allowed in to talk to residents.

However, one female resident who came over to a reporter expressed dismay when told of Mrs. Grossi Abrams' death.

"I'm shocked," she said, adding she did not know the victim.

The building letter carrier, Enrique Morris, said he knew Mrs. Grossi Abrams in passing.

"She was nice," he said. "She traveled a lot. She was always on the go."

PENDING FUNERAL

Redlich, Mrs. Grossi Abrams' cousin, said he hoped her body would be released to him on Monday. He plans to fly it back to New York a day or two later, and possibly hold a funeral service by the end of next week.

He said she would be laid to rest in Trinity Church Cemetery and Mausoleum, Manhattan, next to her husband, Martin Abrams, who died in 1998.

The Rev. William A.F. Blasingame, rector of St. Paul's Memorial Episcopal Church, Stapleton, a close friend of Mrs. Grossi Abrams, said he expects to preside at the funeral or requiem.

Peter N. Spencer and Frank Donnelly are news reporters for the Advance. They may be reached at spencer at siadvance.com and fdonnelly at siadvance.com.

goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 00:30:

great minds think alike billyb

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 00:33:

Costa Rica now has more crime than Panama. Perhaps that could be so. Now that there are more gringo dollars there.

But, wait a few more years, now... since that Once-in-a-LifeTime project for expanding the Panama Canal is in place. MEGA BUCKS WILL THEN EQUAL MEGA CRIME, ... I suppose.

and, thank you.

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 15, 2007, 00:42:

Yesterdays news...where you guys been??? ;) Just my opinion...

and brought to you by the lowest of the low, and foul (per a fellow PBH member)....

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, Clavo...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

poco says on Apr 15, 2007, 01:01:

Preoccupation with England I guess Yesterdays news...where you guys been??? ;)

I waited a whole day thinking this would show up. Anyway, different news from a Panamanian PBH clone.

More help in the offing:

“you just can’t distinguish a criminal from colombia,� a friend tells me. “panamanian thugs have gold teeth, and dress the part. but colombians are just as likely to wear suits and ties. so never know who you’re dealing with.�

Those darn Panamanians, always exaggerating. Then again, do criminals in Panama listen to 50 cents and pimp their ride?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 15, 2007, 01:03:

I saw it on the news channel Frid afternoon while at the gym... i tried to pull it up online with neg results......sounds like the infamous Suitcase Gang!

Just my opinion...

and brought to you by the lowest of the low, and foul (per a fellow PBH member)....

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, Clavo...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Buongone says on Apr 15, 2007, 11:29:

Costa Rica Crime/vs Colombian Back around the early 90's, I was interested in buying some land in Costa Rica. Had a subscription to the Tico Times newspaper. You would not believe the amount of crime then. With all the money going into Costa Rica, I wonder what it looks like now? You can pick up the Anchorage daily news any given day and they have more crime than most Colombian cities do. Yet they don't get the bad rap. This one about this Lady in Panama, sounds like a hit. Somebody lost a lawsuit and got pissed off.

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 15, 2007, 12:11:

In additon to a revenge murder, there was a message to be braodcast as well. She was put on publice display as a message to someone....No need to dismember someone if all you want is the person dead. But, to dismember, burn, and prop her up for all to see, there is an additional message...next question is to whom is it directed and why them?..and, if they round up the usual suspects, the loser of the lawsuit undoubtedly will be included....

and i am not sure i am in agreement with the Title of the thread.....sounds like good ol locally grown Panamaniam violence and murder....doesnt have anything to do with Colombia itself....so why drag Colombia in to the title? or are ALL Colombians automatically part of the Usual Suspects?

Just my opinion...


Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, Clavo...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

arthur brode says on Apr 15, 2007, 20:12:

New Orleans 96 homicides per 100,000 vs Cali 70 per 100,000 Bogota 18 homicides per 100,000 people and Medellin 40 homicides per 100,000 people

Citizens, the tourism industry, police and politicians officials have been alarmed by the wave of killings in New Orleans, with 162 in 2006 and 37 so far this year. A Tulane University study put the city's 2006 homicide rate at 96 slayings per 100,000 people, the highest in the nation.








En un lapso de algo más de diez años, Bogotá redujo la tasa de homicidios de 80 a 18 por cada cien mil habitantes. Medellín ha logrado reducciones considerables en su violencia homicida y está cerca de 40 por cien mil, mientras que Cali, con una tasa cercana a 70 por cien mil, es ahora la más violenta de las grandes ciudades colombianas.

http://www.calirentals.net/

arthur brode says on Apr 15, 2007, 20:25:

Thanks,but no thanks.I think i will stay in Colombia .

http://www.calirentals.net/

utopiacowboy says on Apr 15, 2007, 21:36:

Medellin reduced its homicide rate as a result of the AUC taking over the barrios and imposing their version of law and order.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 22:59:

Lafayette, Louisiana... about 135,000 population; 7 homocides, so far this year.
That's going to figure out to about 18 or 19 for the year per 100,000 population. And! Only this, in the wake of 'crime has been on a slow, upward trend since Hurrican Katrina y Rita.'

19 as compared to....70???
I like it here! and, I think
my colombiana will like that 2.

Imagine...it's easy.

Oh! And, although frequently referred to a 'BANANA REPUBLIC', Louisiana still - in spite of what they think here,...jaja,.. is a part of Los Estados Unidos Grandes ;)

And, when you see those little tiny miniscule numbers, then THERE AIN'T MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CALI AND NEW ORLEANS, 70 OR 96, THEY ARE BOTH IN THE SAME LEAGUE.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 23:05:

sts stop the shit

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 16, 2007, 01:26:

With all due respect, A.B...... It's been awhile since I was 'rocked off my chair' by a local explosion

Imagine...it's easy.

and, thank you.

panthdave says on Apr 16, 2007, 02:41:

Brutal Murder...Looks like Many Involved.... What about the inheritance of this lady...Where is that going???
What a case for the Panama Authorities....




panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

arthur brode says on Apr 16, 2007, 10:52:

22 dead at Virgina Tech; 28 wounded; suspect killed; campus clos shit like that doesnt happen in Colombian Universities/Schools.

http://www.calirentals.net/

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2007, 15:17:

last count was more than 30 killed.... Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

juancegomez says on Apr 16, 2007, 15:47:

Really can't agree with the concept behind the title... ...are we now going to take the actions of individuals as representative of entire nationalities and accuse the larger groups they belong to of "exporting" something or other, especially when no "merchandise" is involved anywhere?

Sigh...

morphus says on Apr 16, 2007, 16:49:

33 dead now! Why are'nt they releasing the identity of the gunman?

poco says on Apr 16, 2007, 17:08:

Walking like a duck the larger groups they belong to of "exporting" something or other, especially when no "merchandise" is involved anywhere?

Interesting there are such weak arguments and coming from seemingly knowledgeable members.

Export is closely associated with ideas, culture, political schemes, life styles, etc. none of which are monetary in nature.

Maybe it would be preferable to put a different spin on the brutality perpetrated.

COLOMBIAN LOVER SPURNED.

Two days shy of turning 58, returned to her POSH apartment in Panama City late Monday night after spending the evening at a local casino partying with her young Colombian man who worked as a handyman in her apartment building.


HEIRESS finds Companionship and then death.

Heiress tries matchmaker.com in U.S. but finds Colombian Lover easier to find. Partial profile.

"I'm new at this so "HERE WE GO!

"They tell me I have a personality that make the people I'm around feel good, so you may question who is they? Well it's the new friends I have acquired due to a change in my life. I'm a widow and have now had occasion to meet new people. "They" in fact have given me the courage to sign up here.

"I have been sitting here for the last half hour trying to describe myself, and it's not easy. I'm trying to capture me and I can't do it. Let me just put it out there I would like to meet someone who can be a good companion and make me smile.

"It would now be lovely to meet someone to make new memories with. To make it simple I'll state what I would like to have in a companion. Honesty is foremost followed by integrity, and it's always nice to have someone make you smile.

"I have not been in the dating game in over 25 years so I am a bit rusty about the rules. Let me tell you a little about me. I'm a diverse person who can enjoy museums to bowling, my best feature is my flexibility. I can enjoy just about anything with the right person. It can be as simple as a video rental to going to a play. If you are that person, give me a wink. Just an FYI, the photos are recent. Thank you for reading my profile."

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

goin_south says on Apr 16, 2007, 17:27:

VaTech? Colombine? The Post Office? O.J.? Today is one of those days when I am quite thankful not to have a television filling the air with such atrocities. In a world filled with pressures to do this and perform that, every day, I don't think I need to fill my life with info about this matter, since it is one of those separate and isolated UNFORTUNATE incidents about which I can do nothing.

No TV to fill the minds and hearts of my kids or myself, with all this crazi sh*t.

I remember the days when we had TV....
I like this better.

Imagine...

and, thank you.

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2007, 17:37:

Morphus, they probably want a shot at the guys house, family, and investigate PRIOR to the media going there to contaminate the scene, influence witness testimony, etc......but i can imagine, if the university cops are handling that, they are F$#k#d, because they are not equipped to handle an event like that....in fact, the manpower being used there would push even the largest of agencies to the limit....just to secure and investigate the large crime scene....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

poco says on Apr 16, 2007, 18:17:

They had their chance shit like that doesnt happen in Colombian Universities/Schools.

Now isn't this a hoot !!!!

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Someday people will wake up and understand they are responsible for themselves. The consequences of this failure to possess a modicum of common sense will be their ultimate undoing.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

southern151 says on Apr 16, 2007, 18:53:

The shooter... He was Chinese. He had come to the US in August of '06 on a student visa. That is about all they are saying about him right now. 33 dead in the US's largest mass murder in history. What a terrible shame.

caslug says on Apr 16, 2007, 20:11:

can you LEGAL buy a gun.. if you're on a student Visa? I thought to LEGALLY buy a gun in US they're(the business) are suppose to run a background/criminal check. And if you've been in US less than a year, then how can you "pass" the check?

poco says on Apr 16, 2007, 20:24:

Even worse if you're on a student Visa? I thought to LEGAL buy a gun in US they're(the business) are suppose to run a background/criminal check. And if you've been in US less than a year, then how can you "pass" the check?

There are many laws concerning gun purchase so I'll leave that one alone.

No,, the problem was "RIGHT TO CARRY" ie: have the gun in your possession and in most states this means "Not plainly in sight".

The RIGHT to carry a weapon was Legislated AGAINST. ie: the right to allow a person to make a decision to have a method of defending him/her self was taken away. Sure,, do it anyway and now you're the criminal.

No right to carry and you can have all the weapons you want,, AT HOME and this in many instances does NOT mean in the car.

Colombia has right to own and carry firearms. I'd try for a fully automatic FN/FAL if I didn't think someone would kill me while trying to steal it.

I'm sure this post on PBH is the only place you'll find the above link.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2007, 21:11:

I sure wish Korea would stop "Exporting Korean Violence and Murder" to the US!!!! btw, one of the victims was an foreign student from Peru.....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 16, 2007, 21:12:

Before you can "export Colombian murder" you first need to find a country that doesn't have its own healthy supply of murder.

Good luck with that.

southern151 says on Apr 16, 2007, 21:21:

Legally possessing a gun... is not the problem. Criminals don't sit in wait for a background check. You can buy a gun illegally any time here as well as probably everywhere in the world.

It is said that he was carrying two semi-auto pistols and numerous clips. It is a terrible, unwarranted attack on a group of people that never had a chance to ask why or even say goodbye.

poco says on Apr 16, 2007, 23:00:

New thread needed Criminals don't sit in wait for a background check

Someone should start a thread about this.

Suggested Titles:
Do Colombian Chinese with Student Visas go postal?

Bush responsible for more murders, will Colombia be next?

No more Chinese allowed in North America!

Would Colombians take revenge for murders in their College.

Are Colombians better shots than American immigrants from China?

Carnage - Whats the record in Colombia.

Che Guevara would never condone these murders.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

caslug says on Apr 17, 2007, 07:36:

well.. the news confirm he's a..korean student.. FYI.. all korean male go into the army for 2 or 4 yrs.. IRC.. i forgot which.. So that would somewhat explain his competency with firearm.

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 17, 2007, 10:14:

Colombiamike? He's North Korean, right? And a vet?

juancegomez says on Apr 17, 2007, 13:58:

poco "Interesting there are such weak arguments and coming from seemingly knowledgeable members."

Your opinion.

Personally, I think it's still the headline that is the weak link here, but I'm not forcing you to agree. Just stating my own opinion.

"Export is closely associated with ideas, culture, political schemes, life styles, etc. none of which are monetary in nature."

True, strictly speaking. But then what is Colombia truly "exporting" here?

Oh wait...so the criminals were Colombian...Colombia is country with a high crime rate...so if Colombians commit crimes anywhere else in the world, it's obviously Colombia's fault for exporting violence!

Wonderful logic there. Nothing else matters at all.

I wonder how many other countries you could accuse of "exporting" crime based only on the nationalities of foreign criminals.

"Maybe it would be preferable to put a different spin on the brutality perpetrated."

No need to go so far. There shouldn't be a need for any "spin", period.

Monpirri says on Apr 17, 2007, 14:35:

Ain't you the guy who export violence from Colombia on these websites? Why don't start writing some positive stuff? We can use some help.
I heard you are talking about me in your beloved co.blog, What's up?
The site is down again?

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 17, 2007, 22:34:

Monporri1..who are you talking to?? who is "you"? i agree with Juancegomez....the title is antagonistic at best, erroneous at worst....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Monpirri says on Apr 18, 2007, 05:43:

Migue_Clavo I was talking to Juancegomez, I do not think you post in co.blog, do you?

Have a nice day,
Monpirri

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 18, 2007, 09:21:

Nope....i spend much too time online these days as it is... i cant imagine posting on another site...much to their fortune or misfortune....jajajja...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

juancegomez says on Apr 18, 2007, 11:36:

monpirri1 "Ain't you the guy who export violence from Colombia on these websites?"

I'm sorry, but could you explain what do you mean by that?

Unless the fact that I'm (mostly, but not exclusively) interested in talking about politics and the armed conflict is "exporting violence" (?????), I don't get your point.

"Why don't start writing some positive stuff? We can use some help."

I've actually written a lot of relatively positive stuff, both here and elsewhere, even when talking about rather negative subjects (violence, for instance).

"I heard you are talking about me in your beloved co.blog, What's up?"

At least *I* haven't been talking about you.

No idea if others have, since I don't keep track of everything that goes on there. Only about those subjects which interest me.

Plus, for what it's worth, I'll say it again: I really don't consider CBlog nor PBH to be especially "beloved" in my eyes. They are just websites.

It's the people who post in them, IMHO, who may be "beloved", "hated" or simply ignored. And you have plenty of candidates for both categories here and there.

"The site is down again?"

Seems like it.

platano says on Apr 18, 2007, 17:02:

But don't blame Colombians for crime in Costa Rica since most Colombians who emigrate to Costa Rica are professionals...

"A manera de conclusioÌ?n, se puede indicar que los inmigrantes
colombianos revisten el siguiente perfil:
Son en su mayoriÌ?a profesionales, empresarios y comerciantes,
que ven a Costa Rica como su destino favorito o como un
puente para llegar a los Estados Unidos. "
DATOS SOBRE LA INMIGRACION COLOMBIANA by Julio Varela Jara

plátano

Robert Jorge says on Apr 19, 2007, 01:52:

Just a quick update to those who don't watch the news ... Korean immigrant, moved to the US with family at age 8, (1992). 23 years old now (or was). Been found legally insane in the past. Parents own dry-cleaners, sister goes to Princeton. Bought handgun(s) legally. One was a Glock (model) 22. Pyscho made video tapes and sent them to NBC in between the 2 shootings: Also sent pics and an idiotic note. Greasy forehead. Stalked girls in the past. Basically, a real winner.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy