Ex Pats getting their ass kicked on their real estate

calipro says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:17:

I just got an offer on my apartment in Cali that was 6,000 bucks more than I paid for it a year and half ago. When I bought the apartment the exchange rate was between 2300 and 2400 pesos per dollar.

If I sold it now with the exchange rate at a little below 2000 I could buy the dollars back much cheaper and probably make about 10 grand on the deal U.S.

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rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:20:

Actually, you would make much less after paying capital gains!

RumRonRum

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scotty says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:20:

Greg444 you are just full of good news today arent you. You sound like the sky is falling, relax.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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arthur brode says on Jul 26, 2007, 16:48:

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Atrevido says on Jul 26, 2007, 17:12:

Colombian "offer". Too funny. When will you ever learn.

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miamimike says on Jul 26, 2007, 18:45:

A True Real estate Investor is in it for the long Haul; most "Flippers" get Burned. Sulfur is in the AIR here in Miami, a Flipper's paradise gone Bust,,,Today I as I drove down I-95 South past downtown Miami to Litttle Havana, its shocking to see the Skyline full of still unfinished(but sold) Condo Projects, those in the $400K-$800K price range. When they finish, a real Bloodletting will occur amongst Condo Flippers who were the last to get in. Most of those MIAMI DOWNTOWN CONDOS ARE SOLD and now burned investors in way way over their heads are looking to escape their contracts but a Miami Judge said last week, a Deal is a Deal; now you suffer the Consequences. Next time Caveat Emptor,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Frank Rizzo says on Jul 26, 2007, 21:35:

MiamiMike...you're right on...buy and hold...Calipro...same here....ask AB about the people trying to buy our place in Cali......Money in colombia...you bet tons of it......my next door neighbor has 18 homes in Cali alone. AB, you know of what i speak.

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Frank Rizzo says on Jul 26, 2007, 21:54:

You're right live freeordie....i think people have confused the issue of owning with "owning" a mortgage.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 26, 2007, 23:58:

"Major economic disaster?" Please articulate. The bad things I see as a soldier on the ground, include a bad housing market right now. A lot of people are going under - thus banks are stuck with bad loans, because of the ARMs and other wierd financing that was freely available at the top of the bubble 3 years ago. But "disaster"? ... Nah, I don't buy it. I am an optomist, but also a realist. I don't see any distaster looming. I will be proven wrong if we are hit hard by a terrorist attack. By "hard" I mean something that makes 9-11 seem like child's play. Or, if economics are soft, and then some dumbass gets tax increases passed. The economy has already absorbed / experienced a shit-load of these bad loans. The 3 year ARMs have already come due - 6 months ago. The next hit will be the 5 year ARMs in another year or so. It isn't all doom and gloom in my opinion. Hell, 2 days ago the Dow was at an all time high. So what if it went down 350 today.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 27, 2007, 00:00:

Oops, sent that last post away before the ole' spell checker. Sorry. Still no edit function.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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podborski says on Jul 27, 2007, 06:26:

the OP sounds to me very much like someone with an axe to grind. Someone who doesn't like the idea that gringos can have a very good life in colombia. IMHO.

Too bad 'wishing' ex pats were losing money doesn't make it so, huh?

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Gator says on Jul 27, 2007, 08:52:

Gee! Much like what is happening in the USA to those who came in late and now want to sell.

We could sell our apartmento in Los Rosales for a lot more than we paid several years ago. Strangely enough we bought it to live in NOT as real estate speculation. But since then prices have skyrocketed but are leveling out and dropping.

Right on GBI-we have enough faith to keep the bulk of our assets in the USA

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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tomtom33 says on Jul 27, 2007, 09:22:

"The only question is whether we will be able to avoid a depression and just have a severe recession."

The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

The vast majority of my money will stay in the US.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 27, 2007, 09:26:

hey tomtom33..give it to us, we will hold it for you....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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tomtom33 says on Jul 27, 2007, 09:30:

Will you? Gee thanks.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 27, 2007, 11:00:

GIB, the guy was saying aircraft sales are NOT declining, unlike about everything else.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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fecherklyn says on Jul 28, 2007, 18:25:

Gringoinbogota,

"If you look at worldwide losses trust me you are better off in the US markets through all of this than Europe or Asia"

Not correct Gringoinbogota. I was a statstician and still follow my trade. Take virtually any period over the last 7 years and you will find the European or North American equity market investor's are BETTER OFF in European stocks (because of the US$'s relative weakness). The '" americans" who have made the most money invested in European or selected South American stocks (In the case of the last 3 years again in view of the relative strength of the Colombian Peso and Brazilien currencies).

My property in Colombia has increased by about 50% over the last 2 years in terms of the Colombian Peso. The Colombian Peso has in turn revalued considerable over the same period against my currencies of reference; the Euro and US$. All this makes me me very happy and glad THAT I DID NOT HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY INVESTED IN THE USA!!!!!

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tomtom33 says on Jul 29, 2007, 08:33:

There have been people forecasting the end of the US economy for decades. So far they have been batting .000.

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rumronrum says on Jul 29, 2007, 08:50:

I hear so many people say their property in Colombia has appreciated. I ould like to hear from somone who has sold a casa or apartmento in Colombia. What % profit, fees paid, i.e., capital gains, etc. Thanks,

RumRonRum

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rumronrum says on Jul 29, 2007, 19:50:

Maybe its true that the people bragging about how much their apartments have appreciated have never sold property in Colombia............................

RumRonRum

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 29, 2007, 23:14:

Hmm livefreeordie. "Not even the Mexicans are coming to the US any more (sic)" .... Just tonight there was a feature story on a tunnel they found recently to get illegals into the US. Same story, on MSNBC, also stated that 350 illegals are caught per day on the border. That is caught - not those that actually enter without being caught.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 29, 2007, 23:30:

rrr, I haven't read many posts of people "bragging" on how their property investments have appreciated. I have read a very few saying that the values have appreciated - but it didn't come across as bragging to me. The comments were always on topic with the thread's topic. Not trying to break your balls, but don't hate on people who have made a wise investment, or have even gotten lucky, and share the info. When I read that somebody bought a house in Bogota 5 years ago, and even taking the exchange rate into account, have doubled their money in equity in that time period, I feel happy for them. I have done the same thing in the US, and that is how I made a couple of bucks over the past 3 years.
(I got out of the Miami market at the right time ... dumb luck ... and thankyou God)

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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rumronrum says on Jul 30, 2007, 04:53:

Hola Robert Jorge. Let's wait and see if someone writes an honest response regarding the sale of a property. I would like to know the % of profit after paying all fees. Thanks

RumRonRum

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tomtom33 says on Jul 30, 2007, 05:10:

Are going to believe what anyone chooses to write?

I know many who have sold in Colombia. The percentage of profit is meaningless. If I invested 1 dollar and sell at 3 dollars 10 years later, I have made a profit of 200%. And I made $2.

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rumronrum says on Jul 30, 2007, 05:23:

so I take if you haven't sold a property either..........................?

RumRonRum

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Chelesupercono says on Jul 30, 2007, 13:35:

I think that the real estate market in Cartagena is a huge bubble that is going to burst by years end. The prices for new pre construction condos is just absurd with the developers taking all the short term profit. In other cities the price per m2 is around $ 2 to 3.5 mil which is about right. Here in Cartagena thay are now asking between $ 4.5 and 6 mil per m2 and sales have stopped. It is the same old third world story.....they just cannot adjust to a slow market and the declining dollar.....and heaven forbid figure out why there are no sales!!! the old third world vision ......as far as my nose...

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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rumronrum says on Jul 31, 2007, 02:47:

MDE per m2 (new construction) 2-2.5 mil. MDE will not be far behind Cartagena.

RumRonRum

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elk says on Jul 31, 2007, 02:52:

I purchased here in Medellin last October for 1,400,000 COP per m2 and the current price is 1,750,000 COP.

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Dan says on Jul 31, 2007, 03:02:

personally, If I'm going to buy a house in Colombia, I intend to keep it. I'm looking around once in awhile but will likely buy something when I'm closer to retirement even though I would like something now for when I visit.

God Bless America!

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tomtom33 says on Jul 31, 2007, 03:05:

Elk, don't confuse rummy with the facts. It doesn't fit his premise.

You might find some developments in Castillo Grande(CTG) asking 4 million/m2. But that is not the norm. I would be willing to guess that over-building in CTG will lead to moderating prices rather than a bust. When you look at beach property in the Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico area, Cartagena is very reasonably priced right now.

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robi666 says on Jul 31, 2007, 04:48:

Tomtom, that's my thought, too. It will happen the same in Medellin, in a lesser extent. The market is slowing right now, but we won't see any major correction. 10 - 20% down? No way!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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rumronrum says on Jul 31, 2007, 14:45:

Buying now (1950 peso per dollar) compare to last June (2600 pesos per dollar)

You buy a property for 400,000,000 pesos in June, 2006, and pay $154,000 You buy a property for 400,000,000 now and pay $205,000, a difference of $51,000 US Dollars (not to mention the fees for importing money to Colombia and other fees).

No matter when you bought your property lets discuss selling it:
How much will you pay in capital gains?
How much will you pay in reality fees?
How much will you pay in other fees?
What will the exchange rate be?

Let's say you keep the property and live here full time for over 5 years.
How much do you pay in property tax?
How much do you pay in administration fees?
How much do you pay in WORLD TAX (yes, world tax is here and you will pay a lot)?
How do you get your money out of Colombia?
What increase will the government impose on property taxes and capital gains each year?
Who's going to pay for all those awesome improvements along Poblado Ave etc?

I would like to hear from property owners who have lived in Medellin for a few years and sold property.

Thanks,

RumRonRum

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tomtom33 says on Jul 31, 2007, 15:58:

I am interested in those things as well. According to people who have sold, you may not have to worry much about capital gains if you have held the property for over 2 years.

Reatly fees, like everything else in Colombia, are negotiable. I have purchased 2 properties, and both times the seller had to pay around 6%.

Other fees are usually split and come to around 0.10%.

The exchange rate will be what it will be.

My property taxes come to less than 0.10%.

My admin. fees are 90K per month.

I doubt that I would pay any kind of world tax.

If I wanted to take the proceeds out of Colombia, I would require payment in another country. Many friends have done that.

No one can predict what the government of any country will do.

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robi666 says on Jul 31, 2007, 16:50:

Although I did not sell yet (actually, I am not trying to sell), I try to answer.
1) you pay capital gains on the declared value of the sale. It can be equal or more to the official appraisal value, which is usually much less than the commercial value.
2) Realty fees: 3% or less.
3) Other fees: notaria, not much.
4) Who knows... actually, if someone sell will have more dollars than last year.
5) Like 0.1% on the official appraisal value. Often one third of the commercial value.
6) It depends. You pay for a service that you get.
7) World tax?
8) You can require a payment abroad. If not, there are many ways to do it, with different costs and times.
9) I guess the fiscal policy of Colombian government will not change much with Uribe.
10) What do you mean? Alcaldia pays for the actual improvements of common things. The new malls will sell or already sold to private people.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Greg444 says on Aug 2, 2007, 14:23:

First of all, I am talking about residential real estate. Colombians are the thiftiest people in the world (I used the nicest term), Colombians will not pay a pesos over the wholesale cost for anything.
Let me repeat this in bold type, so you never forget "COLOMBIANS WILL NOT PAY ONE PESOS OVER WHOLESALE".

A new progressive scan DVD player , bought at Target for $24.95, I could not get more then $50 mil for it Colombia.
A new 15.7" laptop ACER, w/DVD read/write, etc. I bought at Office Depot for $399 (incl rebate), you would be lucky to get 6-700,000 pesos for it in Colombia.
My friends and I have alist a mile long.

BUT WE are supposed to believe gringos can down and buy condos and fincas and resell them to Colombians for a profit.
Not only do they have to sell them , then the Expats have to convert back to US dollars, also pay any fees and taxes on the sale.

Come ' on get real, GringoinBogota, knows what I mean.

An offer does not mean shit in Colombian, on even a contract, Colombia is a cash in the hand transaction place esp for expats.

One expat , I know , paid our $120k, for a finca, some trouble with the title trf parework did not happed right. he is out 120k , he says, its been a year.

Also there is still a BAD employment problem in Colombia and Medellin, we are supposed to believe the expats, when they say Colombians are buying the condo and fincas like crazy, I am making a profit. Its all bullshit , the expats are trying to unload to niave gringos better believe.
Yeah, a flood of horny middle aged gringos, does not a real estate boom make.

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rumronrum says on Aug 3, 2007, 15:21:

Only the foolish are buying property without understanding how much it will cost to sell it! I'ver heard so many gringos say my property appreciated xxxxxxxx $$. Its BS until you sell it and end up with the bottom line.

RumRonRum

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Dan says on Aug 3, 2007, 19:19:

Rum... I've been hearing the same thing even for my house in the US. Only problem is that the other houses in the neighborhood are not selling as well and since they compare others in the area, it doesn't help me at all. There's going to be extra expenses and other fee's no matter what you do. If someone is in it for the money due to Appreciation, then Colombia isn't the place to be... unless there are some really stupid people buying.

God Bless America!

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robi666 says on Aug 4, 2007, 05:21:

Yes, like if taking to Colombia DVD players to sell and taking to US a Colombian wife just to divorce are really intelligent things to do! :-)
Come on guys... everyone does stupid things, give us a break! Take it easy, do not hate other people and be constructive.
No hablo de bigfoot_wallace porqué es un troll, si o no "vaquero_de_la_esperanza"?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Aug 4, 2007, 05:54:

So, let's try to be real and talk about facts:
1) Real Estate is a LONG haul investment. Real Estate is a "DEFENSE" investment. Switching house in Colombia, at least for someone who do not live here is at risk. You'll feed agencies, risk too much with the change and too complicated. Money does not fall from the sky, you get what you work for. You hardly sit on your money and see it duplicate as per magic.
2) Renting apartment in Colombia will still give you a good 6% - 7,5% NET income of the price of the apartment (it depends on how high you are in the tax table and if you rent through an agency). I doubt it will give the same in the next years (due to this prices), but I find it still too high. A 3% would and will be a more reasonable figure, in a few years to come. Remember that rent follow inflation, not real estate prices.
3) If you LIVE in a developing country like Colombia, you'll have to deal with high INFLATION and a currency getting stronger (again LONG TIME speaking). So, if your lifestyle depends only on money coming from abroad (yes, have most of your money home abroad is the safest thing to do), probably there will be a moment when it will simply be not enough. A small wise investment in real estate here will probably do the job of preserving your lifestyle.
4) Today prices have really go up too fast (but they were saying it last year too). What I think and see, BUT it is only my perception, it is that we are in a slowing market now (renting is still going very well), thanks also to the increase of interest rates . Going for a correction, maybe 5%, maybe just nothing and loose on the 6% inflation.
Bottom line, you make money, you loose money, but real estate is hardly the way to go to bankrupt, get your ass really kicked or, on the other way, make tons of money. Stocks maybe, not real estate.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Aug 4, 2007, 06:02:

Greg, try to think about your post, it is quite absurd:
"exchange rate getting worse, US market crash today" if true, are just two things that work for people who have invested in real estate in the last years to get MORE dollars, not "getting their ass kicked on their real estate".

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Aug 4, 2007, 06:17:

By the way, US economy will never crash, I would take it over whichever economy of the world.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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rumronrum says on Aug 5, 2007, 06:23:

Dan, Thanks for the response...............................Still would like to hear from a gringo who sold his apartment or house in Medellin and what the bottom line was? Especially, what were the fees of getting money (profit) back to the USA.

RumRonRum

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