Estados Unidos

scotty says on Aug 29, 2007, 22:29:

You have a point there, the US used to be a free country but now many of those freedoms are gone especially after 9/11. Alot more people saying no rather than yes.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

john_stark says on Aug 29, 2007, 22:43:

What a shame you came back. I wish US immigration had told you NO.

Lisa Zee says on Aug 29, 2007, 22:48:

I wish they told me NO also.

scotty says on Aug 29, 2007, 23:00:

speaking of immigration, i hate the whole airport experience.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 01:29:

You can have your freedom to drink beer on an aeroplane.

I'll take my freedom for peaceful assembly, freedom for free exercise of religion, freedom of speech, the right of peaceful assembly and the right to petition the government for redress of grievance.

The erosion of some liberties notwithstanding, I defy you to find another nation that has fought harder for the institutionalised freedoms we all appear to take for granted today.

Colombia too, has examples of legislation set in place apparently in order simply to constrain the rights of her citizens based on nothing more than an antiquated moral code.

An example of this is the law in Cali that states that a woman may only sleep with her husband.

Tfacos.

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 01:33:

Oooooh and Scottty........did you see that they now have Juan Valdez at Miami airport ??? :O

I go to the airport now just do drink delicious colombian coffee and "find" luggage !!!!

I usually like to make a day of it ! :D

Take care

Tfacos.

gringolondinense says on Aug 30, 2007, 01:39:

One time, I was flying from London to Toronto on a cheapo airline. We werent allowed to drink alcohol. Then there was an announcement "We are now in Canadian airspace...you are now allowed to drink alcoholic blah...". So there we were, above the bloody Atlantic and were not allowed to drink for several hours? strange eh??

Talking about freedoms...I think Italy is one of the freeeest places. Sure, there are all those european laws telling you how long your cucumbers should be but nobody obeys them if they interfere with them having a good time, and the police dont bother enforcing most of them either.

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 01:58:

LOOL Italy didn't even constitutionalise freedom of the press until 1947 - and they had to have their ar$es handed to them by the ALLIES before they would do it.

I don't think that any country that regularly fed Christians to lions, paid Dictator wages to Mussolini, has to put with Mafiosa gang-land killings, intrenched government corruption or Vespas should get to be included on the "Freest places to live list".

tfac

LA_MONA says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:00:

Timefor:

Why did you say that to Lisa?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:04:

La Mona,

That was an example of a piece of legislation that constrains the rights of a nation's citizens based on nothing more than an outdated code of moral decency.

It was an example quoted in order to contest her proposal that Colombia is universally more free than other nations.

Timefor.

gringolondinense says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:08:

errmm well Time4 Mussolini is dead, so we dont have to worry about him anymore. The stuff you mention is in the past, im not talking about that.

Sure...there is a fair amount of corruption. Im talking about everyday freedoms they have there. People are free to live their lives without getting booked for petty stuff.

LA_MONA says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:09:

Ah ok...
But I think is Lisa is just in that phase when you come back from Colombia and everything pales in comparison, you really see the negatives of where you are from....I don't think she means to insult EEUU, I think it's a lighthearted throw away comment.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:14:

Nah you're right Gringolondinense.....

Still, I wonder how things might have turned out for the freedom loving italians if Mussolini had stayed out of that particular war and focussed on his agenda at home.

And dude, you appear to discount the social cost of corruption. In a land where bribery, graft and kick-backs are accepted by police, government officials and politicians, nobody is really free.

Tfac.

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:20:

La Mona,

I would never attack anyone personally and I apologise to both you and Lisa if you have interpreted my remarks as an attack.

On re-reading my post, I guess my comment did come off as a little abrupt.

That was not my intent.

I found Lisa's post to be well considered and an excellent source of debate.

Timefor.

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:27:

La Mona,

I've since edited my post in order to reflect your concerns. Thankyou.


Timefor.

LA_MONA says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:29:

Jaja many thanks Timefor...I was just curious but I appreciate how considerate you are.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

miamimike says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:31:

Lisa nice to hear you had a nice time in Col, look for change here in the USA come Jan 2009. Thanks again for the Favor(phone call) in regards to the Clinica de las Americas in Medellin.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:34:

De nada. :)

Best wishes.

Timefor.

scotty says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:41:

Time are you telling me that in Cali there is an actual law that says a woman may only sleep with her husband. Damn i wish someone would havew told me before i...never mind.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

scotty says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:45:

No Time i havent been to the miami airport in about a year but next time i go to Cali it will be through the miami airport and i will be looking for JUan Valdez. Im jealous, we still dont have one out here. I live in Phoenix AZ the 5th largest city in America and we dont even have one Juan Valdez coffee.
Im going to find thier corporate address and write them a letter begging them to open at least one here.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:48:

LOL Sorry Scotty. It's true.

You can relax though man.....I can't find any law that stops a man from sleeping with whomever the heck he wants!!!!

Definitely not a case of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"

Timefor.

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:51:

I would KILL for a NEVARA thingo right now..........*

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Nevara thingo.

Those things are delicious.


Timefor.








* I really really really would !

LOL

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 02:55:

Let me know how you go with that Scotty. I'd MOVE to Phoenix if they had a Juan Valdez LOOOL


Take care

Timefor.

scotty says on Aug 30, 2007, 03:23:

well Phoenix better get with the damn program and get a Juan Valdez here. im writting to juan valdez and try to coonvince them to build one here. I cant fly to miami everytime i want a real coffee.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

gringolondinense says on Aug 30, 2007, 04:17:

Well I think there has to be some danger or risk in all our lives. Otherwise life becomes as exciting as living in Switzerland.

scotty says on Aug 30, 2007, 04:55:

Time, call her Mona , she likes to be called Mona not La Mona

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

john_stark says on Aug 30, 2007, 04:58:

The freedom to have someone that pisses you off whacked for $50. I'd put that one in the constitution -it should be a sacred right that everyone has.

LA_MONA says on Aug 30, 2007, 05:06:

JS are you glad we have our own off topic section now ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

Man Tequila says on Aug 30, 2007, 05:11:

Except you can't edit your fo'c'sle comments. Yarrr.

And she calls herself Lla_Mona... why wouldn't she like that?

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 05:18:

Thanks Scotty :)


All this talk is making me thirsty.......

Well, I'm off to the Airport for a nice mug of steaming, velvety, rich Juan Valdez coffee!!!!!!

Oooooh and a Nevara for afters!


:D

Ciao for now.

Timefor.

nine inch nails says on Aug 30, 2007, 07:08:

"And dude, you appear to discount the social cost of corruption. In a land where bribery, graft and kick-backs are accepted by police, government officials and politicians, nobody is really free."

Kinda like Miami-Dade Co., Broward County Public Schools and other large corrupt municipalities in the USA and/or even portions of our Federal Govt. now. Corruption, avarice and greed everywhere maybe just more well hidden here in USA.

"Bank owned" (www.foreclosurebyowner.com)

droble77 says on Aug 30, 2007, 07:11:

That's nothing Lisa, wait till you get on one of those night buses and smell someone smoking weed in the back. :-))

En serio. . . I see what you're getting at. I've also been surprised at the level of tolerance and open-mindedness. . . at least within certain areas of activity. I haven't been in Colombia long enough to figure out exactly why that is. . . maybe they just don't care. . . or maybe people don't say anything because of the underlying current of violence? After all, that guy with the 16 oz. beer could know some very nasty people, so why rock the boat over a beer bottle. . . or someone smoking a joint in the back of the bus?

On the other hand, I've heard a lot of Colombians express frustration over all the economic and bureaucratic "roadblocks" they experience when it comes to running a business, making good plata, buying a home or a car. So they have one set of freedoms, but are somewhat lacking in others. . .

In a way, I envy you because what you just did would be ideal for me. I can't imagine myself ever living in Colombia full-time, but I wouldn't mind cooling my heels down there for 2-3 months after 10 months of non-stop work. That would be the ideal situation for me, but unfortunately, when you work in IT tech support, the companies here aren't really fond of the idea of their desperately needed techies dropping out of existence for 2 months straight! File and web servers don't ever take vacations. :-)

Rubito says on Aug 30, 2007, 07:27:

I sometimes can't even believe what I'm reading on here.

Timeforachange, if you really don't know anything about Colombia you shouldn't post about it.

Colombia has a Constitution just like the US does, and has ALL the same freedoms enshrined in it, and a few more. That law in Cali is no longer valid since the Constitution came in.

Before 1991 the US was a freer country than Colombia, but that is no longer the case.

Hell, don't forget to mention in Georgia TO THIS DAY oral and anal sex is illegal, not to mention aside from rural Nevada, in the US you have no right to buy or sell sex. Now those things are BASIC freedoms that make a huge difference to me.

The press in Colombia is neither more nor less free than the US. Both are sewn up by a few powerful and moneyed interests.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Lowell says on Aug 30, 2007, 07:55:

Whether it be false or not, I do feel more free here in Colombia. However, in that freedom I'm as watchful as I can be for me and my family of other who abuse that freedom. IE: while operating our motorcycles in public.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

miamimike says on Aug 30, 2007, 08:05:

Kinda like Miami-Dade Co., Broward County Public Schools and other large corrupt municipalities in the USA and/or even portions of our Federal Govt. now. Corruption, avarice and greed everywhere maybe just more well hidden here in USA.
===================================================================

Miami Dade is Corrupted by the Cubans so thats not a really good comparison. ALSO THEY(cubans) ARE UNDER DIFFERENT FEDERAL LAWS(interpretation, Visa laws ect).

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Rubito says on Aug 30, 2007, 08:37:

That people take ADVANTAGE of the freedoms they have here and abuse them is no question. Just look at the nutso way the taxis drive here. The other day I got Bogotá's answer to Ned Flanders, glasses, hairstyle, manner of speech everything, as a taxi driver, and he STILL drove like Montoya! :P

My wish is that people use the freedoms they have here responsibly so that there is never any excuse to try and take them away!!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Lisa Zee says on Aug 30, 2007, 09:55:

All countries have good and bad, and more freedom than others, however since I live here I have been told a million times over and over: "this is a free country" and in Colombia we don`t say that , we just do whatever we want, in some cases is not a good thing, but it is what it is.
We had 8 weeks vacation, because we both self employed, and we have the freedom to do what we want.
There were times that I missed many things from the Estates, but that is what happens when you leave home!? I don`t really know anymore where is home!? you end up
DESPATRIADO!. All I know is I love Colombia and I love the USA!
Oh and the man on the plane WALKED IN with the beer in his hand, I am not saying is it right, it just happened, I don`t think here that would happen, here you can not even walk in the plane with a bottle of water for a 6 or 8 hour flight!!!!.

Lisa Zee says on Aug 30, 2007, 11:35:

Gracias LA MONA.
M MIKE, I am very glad if I helped you. What is going to be different Jan.09?? I would love to make some suggestions, but I don`t dare at the moment.

miamimike says on Aug 30, 2007, 12:23:

M MIKE, I am very glad if I helped you. What is going to be different Jan.09?? I would love to make some suggestions, but I don`t dare at the moment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------LOL-PM me Lisa with any suggestions!

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

msaucey says on Aug 30, 2007, 13:14:

Lisa Zee... It be nice of you to recap your trip for us.... We love to live vicariously through those that have been visiting.... If you don't mind!....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

morphus says on Aug 30, 2007, 14:40:

Freedom in the U.S.? Check this out:

"Baggy Pants: Outlawed in Atlanta?

The fashion police are cracking down in Atlanta. The city council is considering an amendment to ban baggy pants, but critics argue the legislation is a crackdown on culture, not clothes.

Back when he was known as rapper "Marky Mark," actor Mark Wahlberg helped make baggy jeans and exposed underwear cool. It was a trend celebrated by fashion designers Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger, just to name a couple.

But today, not everyone thinks they're so cool. In Atlanta, where the look is just about everywhere, the city council is now considering an amendment to public decency laws, which would make it a crime to wear baggy pants.

"It's ridiculous. People should have the right to wear their clothes how they want to wear their clothes," said one Atlanta man.

Atlanta City Councilman C.T. Martin said he's tired of seeing kids and young black men wearing their pants down around their knees. His ordinance would make exposed underwear no different than sex in public.

"It kind of doesn't make sense. It is hard for people to walk," Martin said.

And the councilman has plenty of supporters.

"[There] should be a law against it. I think they should be arrested. They should be fined," said Atlanta resident Beverly Thomas.

But the American Civil Liberties Union has stepped in, arguing that, among other things, this new legislation is racial profiling.

"Is it distasteful? Maybe. Does it need to be legislated? We don't think so," said Benetta Standly of the ACLU of Georgia.

This wouldn't be the first city to pass such a law. In Louisiana, there are several cities where residents can be fined up to $500 for showing the world their Calvins.

Lisa Zee says on Aug 30, 2007, 15:38:

Msaucey: I have many stories, good one and bad ones. We did not stay en Medallo much.
I will share some of our travels later, but don`t think every one will be interested.
I say for now that the weather was the best thing we enjoyed, 70s during the day and mid 60s at night, this was by Rionegro, and El Penol. San Andres was extremely hot for us, but the water was beyond beautiful!

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 30, 2007, 16:46:

Rubito, I suggest you take the time to actually understand an argument before you start gibber-gabbering at people.

In your hysterical, self-righteous rant you advise me not to post about something I don't know about but then you take great pains to eloquently highlight your own ignorance.

Nowhere in my post did I say that the Colombians did not have a constitution. They do. It is known as the Constitution of the rights. It was promulgated in 1991 and repeals the constitution of 1886.

The constitution protects the basic human rights stipulated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This is an advisory declaration set forth by the UN in 1948.

Colombia has adopted the formula of social state of right which took the shape of a decentralised unified state with a certain autonomy for its territorial entities and a presidential system.

They even have a constitutional court which decides of the constitutionality of laws etc etc.

Where your argument runs aground is that the constitution does not stop states from making stupid legislation. They can legislate their ar$es off. They can make up all the stupid laws they want to - much as they do in the USA.

The Cali law was a light-hearted example of legislators gone MAD. But seeing as you chose to attack me for it, I suggest you go and check the Cali statutes and then come back and apologise.

"""""Hell, don't forget to mention in Georgia TO THIS DAY oral and anal sex is illegal, not to mention aside from rural Nevada, in the US you have no right to buy or sell sex. Now those things are BASIC freedoms that make a huge difference to me.""""""

Dude, I'm sorry that you can't have anal sex with prostitutes in Georgia. But that is not a constitutional issue. A law becomes unconstitutional in the US when it violates the articles of the Bill of Rights. The right to speedy trial, freedom for free exercise of religion, freedom of speech, the right of peaceful assembly and the right to petition the government for redress of grievance.

And I'm also sorry that your taxi driver was crazy and a bad driver. I suggest next time you go for a taxi ride, you take along a copy of the constitution to show the driver where he is violating your civil rights.

Timefor.

RAAAY says on Aug 30, 2007, 21:06:

timeforachangeofscenery says....................".Dude, I'm sorry that you can't have anal sex with prostitutes in Georgia."

Well.....screw that..............Georgia is officially off my list of places to visit.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

Rubito says on Aug 31, 2007, 01:05:

Well timefor, if you know all THAT and still actually think the US is freer than Colombia I have even LESS respect for you!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

timeforachangeofscenery says on Aug 31, 2007, 04:53:

Dude, don't take this the wrong way but your opinion of me means nothing to me. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's just the stone cold truth.

You think you know me because of a few comments you read and probably misunderstood on PBH ?? Give me a break.

I'm not here trying to convert anybody to my way of thinking. I'm not here trying to make you think that USA is better than Colombia.

Hell, I'm not even here trying to make you look bad. And if you look really really really closely, I never said that the USA was freer than anywhere else in the world.

I just happen to enjoy the freedoms we have here and I understand and accept the freedoms we don't have.

It's just that simple.

Timefor

gringolondinense says on Aug 31, 2007, 05:06:

What is all that about wearing your pants so low, your ass is sticking out in public? One time I was at the Gare du Nord in Paris. 2 english guys walked past. They were about 6feet high and were very very thin. Their belts were so low they were virtually underneath what should be their asses. they both dressed in the same way, complete with red CK lycra shorts. Nice!

Tinto (Moderator) says on Aug 31, 2007, 07:22:

These themes are as old as civilization itself. Someday archaeologists will dig up 8-tracks and cassettes with songs like:

"sign, sign, everywhere a sign..."
"I'm free to do whatever I want, any old time..."
"(Nothing But) Flowers" and "Once in a Lifetime" by the Talking Heads

and many more. And they'll say "Hey, those modefoques were arguing about personal freedoms and accumulating too much junk just like we are."

tomtom33 says on Aug 31, 2007, 08:00:

I have a different take on the Senator. The police had many complaints from the public about lewd acts in that particular restroom. In response to those complaints, they set up a "speed" trap. Once a few potential actors were busted, word would get out that this was no longer a good place for these types of assignations. A guy could then use the bathroom with his kid and not be affronted.

The deal with the Senator is that he has been denying this kind of activity for years. Engaging in that activity could make him subject to blackmail. We don't want US Senators influenced by anything other than special interest money.

Entonces...he is busted and will probably have to resign. I have no problem with that.

In Colombia, no Colombian feels that any law applies to him. He could drive his Navigator into the airport if he could get it through the door. I choose to live in Colombia, and I do not want to change it. I do realize that change is inevitable over time though. I would like it if more cars would stop for stop signs/lights.

Rubito says on Aug 31, 2007, 09:39:

I'm not happy with the traffic situation here, I don't think any Colombian is, but it IS something they are making great strides on here.

GIB really summed it up, the US has gone from a very tolerant society to a very authoritarian one. One may reaonsbly SUPPORT these changes if they jive with your lifestyle and your philosophy, but I for one DONT wanna see NYC turn into another Singapore, I was happy with it before with the higher crime (it wasn't THAT much higher!). But if you're honestly somebody who believes in public order over personal freedom, have the balls to admit that you have a fascist streak in you. Me personally I value the latter over the former, and that makes Colombia a better fit for me IMHO.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

droble77 says on Aug 31, 2007, 09:46:

"We don't want US Senators influenced by anything other than special interest money."

LOL, good one tomtom. :0)

"I choose to live in Colombia, and I do not want to change it."

Sounds like the right attitude to me.

panthdave says on Aug 31, 2007, 15:04:

The only reason they don't want to bring in a beer on flights in the States is one security and before that they want you to buy the beer on the plane its revenue for the airlines...for the States only..Latin America the beer is free on the flight..

Its all about money not freedom

panthdave Miami

Lisa Zee says on Aug 31, 2007, 19:28:

Oh I love that song: " I am free to do what I want, any old time.

Robert Jorge says on Sep 1, 2007, 01:25:

I have never seen a car searched, or told to move on in Colombia. (sarcasm intended)

jarhead says on Sep 1, 2007, 08:39:

I think the ability to do whatever the hell you want, when you want is great, here in Colombia you can pretty much do whatever you want (withing reason), when you want to, I think that's somewhat ok.....in the states you cannot do a lot of the things you can do here in Colombia, sometimes you feel like you are living in a police state, like the Gestapo is just right around the corner...that's not so great.....with all this being said, there are two sides to every story......I live in a house in a nice neighborhood(it belongs to my mother in law), quiet, clean, etc.etc.etc......I have some neighbors that like to party a lot, (I think they are costenos), they have a huge family that they like to invite over, and they invite them over OFTEN....they bring a Vallenato band with them, and proceed to party till daylight, they do this every other week, I am not an old grouch, but I do like to get a good night's rest, I have spoken to the neighbors, I have tried to reason with them, to no avail, I have called the cops, to no avail, last time I called the cops, I saw one of the people who answered the door, slip the cop some cash....(their problem is solved)

as far as I am concerned, those people are violating my rights, my right to get a good nights sleep...in the states I would have called the cops, the cops would have come, the party would have either ended, or the volume would have been turned down..........the point of this stupid little story is that, while some of us think it's great to have all this "freedoms" here in Colombia, or other third world countries like Colombia, (where it is pretty much a free for all)...there needs to be laws, and an agency that is willing and able to enforce those laws, be they disturbing the peace, or at the other extreme, murder, kidnapping, et.et.......remember it is cool/great when there are no laws, or laws that are loosely enforced, BUT ONLY when the result of those laws not being enforced do not directly affect us....

Lowell says on Sep 1, 2007, 10:44:

All night parties/fiestas is part of Colombian heritage. Also, more people are buying big systems. I put 2.5 milloin pesos into a very clear sounding system that can damage your ears before you max the system out ( will last longer than maxed out systems). Even loud enough for my wife. Man, I thought that I liked it loud. I'm a rookie compared to her. However, we respect our neighbors and have only moved the speakers out to the street on major holiday nights. Just to get even, once my wife blasted the neighborhood offender of loud music. It was a total laugh. The other neighbors were happy and dancing. It was done in the afternoon.

Yea, it can be and is a real pain at times. I learned that very quicky and used than in my decision of what to buy for my residence. My bedroon is well removed (4th room) from the street and the door is solid wood. Only when the music is way loud with a lot of base can I faintly here the base. My stepson who can sleep through an earthquake, tornado and huricane at the same time sleep in the front room. The middle room is for my daughter. My neighbor to one side is my surgra/motherinlaw and on the otherside is a quiet familly.

One thing nice about Colombia is the lack of people driving around with huge sound systems blasting so lound you hear the rumble a 1/4 mile away. And in Panama, it used to drive me nuts when having to listen loud music through blown out speakers. Viva Colombia!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Robert Jorge says on Sep 1, 2007, 11:06:

My better half can sleep through anything. I occasionally get up for work, forget to turn off my alarm, and go upstairs 2 hours later to say goodbye. The alarm is blasting and she is dead asleep. But, she lived her whole life in Colombia, so she is used to the noise. I became accustomed to the traffic and sidewalk noise too after a while in Colombia. I found it bothered me less and less, as time went by. I remember my first month or so, I would get woken up every morning by the fruit dealers pushing carts or pulling wagons, yelling on a loudspeaker, "papas papas papas" dos mil. "Banano banano banano" dos mil. I now miss those sounds.

Lisa Zee says on Sep 1, 2007, 11:15:

If you want to live in Colombia...BE PREPARE to heard music 24/7. This is why I rather live in the country. If you have to live in the city, put double glass in you windows.
Here in L.A. you hear the stupid rap blasting from the cars, it is not so bad by the beach, but you still hear guys with the BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!.
Every party I have been to here in the USA, (not that many) the police comes by 10:00pm to shut it up, because the neighbors call complaining....??? at 10: PM???!!!!
All extremes suck!, In Colombia you party until you drop, and here Parties (are so boring), end up by 9 or 10 pm!.

Rubito says on Sep 1, 2007, 12:35:

Jarhead, if it's on a weeknight they are definitely breaking the law. I dunno the exact hour, but I'm gonna look it up myself, more because I'm a potential noisemaker and a completely nocturnal person than out of concern for tranquility.

If it's on a weekend you may be SOL at least technically speaking.

Here in NYC construction noise is OK so you hear THAT shit sometimes at 7am on a Sunday morning but if you play your sound system too loud the police will confiscate it, even on the first offense!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

billyb says on Sep 1, 2007, 14:34:

Lisa, can you imagine the police in Cali laughing their asses off if somebody was ridiculous enough call and complain about a noisy party at 10PM :)

Lisa Zee says on Sep 1, 2007, 18:40:

They will think you are crazy!
My girlfriend had a party in June, she has a beautiful house by the beach. The party stated at 8:pm and by 9:30 the neighbors were calling her.(she invited most of the neighbors, but they did not show up) She wanted a dancing party with a real band, I told her the police would be knocking at her door, they came 3 times and told her, if she did not stop the music they will give her a $500.00 fine, later they told her they would confiscate the instruments form the band!. She spent $5,000. yes five K. on this party. She is American, owns her house and first time party in 11 years!!!?????
the stereo played inside, but the dancing stopped.
Can you imagine this happening in Colombia?, en Cali pachangero!??

Rubito says on Sep 1, 2007, 21:56:

I play private parties like that all the time Lisa. I have to control myself to not turn into a cop-killer, but in the end it's not the cops it's the asshole neighbors. Some of these miserable rich cocksuckers in upper Westchester county here freak out if a fly passes too close to them!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

gold digger says on Sep 2, 2007, 10:33:

When ever I'm in South America I feel so free. When I get back to the USA I feel like you can't do anything without getting in trouble or fined. There are so many laws. I tell my friend that we have laws for the laws.
Then there are the animal rights people here that are so way overboard. I remember one case where a farmer was mowing his field with his tractor and someone found a dead mouse that was on the endanged list. His entire farm was consficated and they found out he had an offshore account and tried to take it too. The account was in Aruba (if I remember right) and they had to have a hearing in the Aruba courts. When the prosecutor told the court what happened. The entire room was rolling on the floor laughing (including the judge) and the case was thrown out and the farmer got to keep his money.
O.J. was guilty as hell and he did no time in jail. Then Michael Vick who was caught dog fighting is going to prison for at least a year! Then there was the burglar who was shot and sued the home owner and won! Sue sue sue, that's the USA nowadays.
Our whole congress/white house needs an enema, and soon!

john_stark says on Sep 2, 2007, 22:12:

Hey, what happened to my enema comment? I agreed with the poster above and suggested that there are probably quite a few congressman who'd love a good enema (or hamster) shoved up their asses.

goin_south says on Sep 3, 2007, 05:24:

""".... if you really don't know anything about Colombia you shouldn't post about it...."""""

'Ito... a few colombians I know have made that same comment about you.

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

static says on Sep 3, 2007, 09:02:

"I remember one case where a farmer was mowing his field with his tractor and someone found a dead mouse that was on the endanged list. His entire farm was consficated"

Hey gold digger: Let's do a trade.

You read up on the Endangered Species Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_Species_Act and the excreable Richard Pombo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pombo. In the meanwhile, I will add you to my "ignore" list.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 01:09:

ok i just scrolled down w/o reading all the comments just to comment on something really quick. yes america has changed alot since 9/11 but its still a free country. i love it when people talk shit about freedom in the states like they have a much better example of freedom.

listen i was born in the us but raised in Colombia. I love both countries equally. but if you think in any country you have more freedom than in america give me a break.

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escacez de aguardiente. :)

Lisa Zee says on Jan 29, 2008, 15:02:

Everything has rules and regulations. Freedom my arsh!

tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 15:53:

Yes, in Colombia we are free to wait in bank lines for hours. We are free to have banks tell us that we cannot open accounts. We are free to have to prove to the cable TV company that we really had paid for Internet service when they come out to restore our service. We are free to have money stolen from Colombian banks accounts. We are free to have health insurance agents steal our premiums.

Can we drive anywhere we like in the countryside in Colombia? Can we wear expensive jewelry? Can we buy and use a new car without fear?

In some ways, the US has many more freedoms.

As I see it, one of the major problems in Colombia is that no one has any respect for any laws.

By the way, I did not read the whole thread. But this theme has recurred.

Man Tequila says on Jan 29, 2008, 22:18:

Everyone likes freedom, but it ain't easy to define. If you give freedom to someone, you tend to take it away from someone else. You can give it to business or consumers, the community or individuals, the majority or various minorities.

Colombia rates very high on international ratings of freedom, as high as the US and Canada.

You have the dosis and more ability to do what you want. Including all the problems caused when other people do what they want.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

goin_south says on Jan 29, 2008, 22:25:

freedom, with respect... is the tough combo... that people forget
and, then someone starts cryin/whinin... and they pass another law
----
unrelated commentary...
think about pbh... jajj.. people whining/cryin the past few days... still.. no new laws! ajjja

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

Rubito says on Jan 30, 2008, 00:11:

No reasonable definition of freedom can include freedom from violence. Show me ONE example in nature of true non-violence.

I'm big on freedom but somehow I don't include driving a car as a god-given right.

In the US sometimes people are free to steal and get away with it, and we call that "safety". How many people on Earth can GET that nice house and that brand new car without a skeleton or two in their closet? You can't make any REAL money anywhere on the planet playing by the rules!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

el torcido says on Jan 30, 2008, 00:20:

what did you say?
(can you tell us more?)
are you talking about 'rights'?'
or, freedom.
You live in an obscene world.

don't know much about 'conomy

tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 02:00:

Good to see you back more, Rubi.

As usual we disagree on some things.

Driving a car is not a God-given right. It is a choice that I do not have in Colombia. In my world, freedom = choice. I really don't like my choices abridged by anyone. I worked hard for many years to be able to afford most things.

Sure there is stealing in the US, but it is more difficult to steal in the US than it is in Colombia. As long as you have people, you will have theft.

And there is no black and white about rules and laws. I have given money to politicians for political favors. But I did it legally. Of course it was not morally correct. It is damn hard to use politics and morality in the same sentence.

Fortunately, I don't have REAL money. I am more than happy with ENOUGH money.

Man Tequila says on Jan 30, 2008, 09:47:

A lot of reasonable people WOULD include freedom from violence in their definition.

Nature may be violent, but so what? Even idealists like Rousseau believed a general will.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

Rubito says on Jan 30, 2008, 10:00:

The "so what" is we LIVE in nature. Civilization does not 100% remove us from it, nor SHOULD it. As a matter of fact I'd argue that civilization has gotten already too far away from it.

To me the fundamental freedoms are those of free speech, free movement, and the right to make your own morality as long as it doesn't harm another. The world SORELY lacks in all three. As anybody who'se done any real amount of international travelling knows, our freedom to move about the glove is rather severely curtailed, for example.

I'll use an example here in Bogotá... Parque Simon Bolivar closes at 9pm. That means there is a restriction on our freedom to be there at the hour we want. Also, there is pico y placa. That means there is a restriction on the MODE of transportation we use to get around, but there are very many alternatives.

The former is for reasons of public ORDER, which is an odious and disgusting phrase meaning they feel they need to protect us from ourselves. The latter is for reasons of public HEALTH, and because we simply don't have enough space in ANY big city for everybody to jam it at the same time in cars.

This is why I fully support pico y placa despite the inconveniences it causes, and I'm totally against them closing the park. If the park is dangerous at night and you know that and go in it should be YOUR right to take the risk, however stupid that risk may be. To me freedom includes an individual's right to do something stupid and win a Darwin Award (tm) in the process.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Man Tequila says on Jan 30, 2008, 10:09:

I do think some people need to be protected from themselves.

Still, Rubito, I respect your views. Mine differ.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...