Environment...Does anybody care?

pepster says on Nov 19, 2005, 15:51:

I'll tell you why in my opinion... Because alot of time environmental issues are either way beyond the scope of one's ability to even fathom of fixing or it's not sexy enough of a subject.

Me, I think people love to talk up the environment yet produce more and more garbage, drive cars, drink coffee, eat meat...

All these things cause havoc for our environment...by producing methane gas, refuse, air pollution...etc.

I think the environmental movement are full of limousine liberals and hypocrites. Maybe when some big disaster happens...I mean a big one...maybe the planet will wake up.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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kernow62 says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:11:

If I could cut down on my methane gas emissions the world would be better off.

I have noticed however that when I eat meat I give off less of said emissions, not only that but cows give off even more methane emissions. So I think rather than eating vegetables as suggested; we should instead eat more cows!

I did put low water consumption toilets in, only 1.6 gallons a flush compared to 5 per flush before. Now if only I didn't have to flush the bugger 3 times to get the crap to evacuate my premises!

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:12:

But there are small ways we can contribute. Ok. maybe changing our lifestyles completely is too difficult now.. . but little things also make a difference.

1. Taking your own bag to the shop or supermarket, instead of getting many plastic bags. This is specially true in the Americas, Europe does this a long time ago... and they charge for the plastic bags.

2. Not using styrofoam.

3. not flushing the water when you pee. urine soes not attract diseases and is not a public health problem. Not flushing the toilet when you pee is not antihigieneico... and it saves gallons of water.

4. Not buying stuff every day... but leaving days in between...Most people return home with at least one bag of purchases every day.

Just doing those, you are contributing in a small way... and when you start with something as easy... you start taking baby steps... and then you start finding other stuff you can do...

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pepster says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:15:

hahah That's funny Kernow...hahahah

Lucia,

You're right...we have to drill into the next generations. The children. They're the onees who are inheriting our irresponsibility...they're the ones stuck fixing our damage.

Schools must drill environmental responsiblity in the schools.

But I wonder how many American schools recycle and have class trips to places that have been destroyed by man's stupidity as opposed to Six Flags or the Zoo.

I wonder how environmental issues would go over in Colombia, where the least of their problems is this.



The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:21:

I'm very much concerned with the ecological issues, not only here in Sweden but also in Colombia. We can all help in small ways and should, but untill Bush signd the Kyoto Protocol (which he isn't going to do) it's all battle uphill.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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kernow62 says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:21:

Lucia of course you are correct.

I pee in the garden, the neighbours don't like it, but it helps the plants.

I use paper bags and use them to wrap books that I sell, this is the best form of recycling. Uses no energy to recycle.

I drive a car that gets excellent mileage and more importantly I keep my car until the wheels fall off. I bike a lot too.

My PC uses LCD monitors. My TVs are LCD too. I have a drip watering system for my plants that need watering, the rest I have planted need no watering. I try and use as little plastic as possible and I tend to purchase better quality goods that will last a long time.

I am installing a more efficient Manabloc system of water pipes in my home (already done one at my mums).

These are just small steps but they help a little.

I would like to start collecting rain water to use for more of my water needs.

Solar hot water in Colombia as well as small roof terrace gardening are subjects that Adrimm and I have discussed on the forum in the past.

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pepster says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:26:

Desi With all due respect, the Kyoto treaty was bad for the US, but Bush should have pushed for an alternative.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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kernow62 says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:34:

However it was bad economical No it was good for the US, it was bad for the US bottom line, money. However it was bad economically for many countries who did sign.

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pepster says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:35:

Kernow I agree.

I guess that's what we get when we have an illegal election.

The Pepster

ColombianBlog.com

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

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kernow62 says on Nov 19, 2005, 16:47:

For the sake of the OP's topic I think it if we discuss the non-political side of the topic though. Let us concentrate on what we can do individually, what Colombia can do as a nation.

Sad as it may be, one of the prime sources of the degradation of our planet is simply the fact that through better health care we are overpopulating the planet. There is a lower infant mortality rate than in the past, we are living longer.

So should we avoid medical care, let the old teeth rot and allow diseases to enter our body. Should we go back to the old disease ridden days. Days when children usually didn't survive. The old checks and balances are out of whack.

Perhaps George is on the right path after all, kill everyone and make more room for "Mericans".

Sorry, couldn't resist the last sentence. ;-)

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Crazy4Cali says on Nov 19, 2005, 17:31:

I feel outnumbered... My personal view on the environment issue is that I can save a plastic bag here and there and then drive by strip mine or paper pulp mill and wonder what sort of difference my 15 plastic bags a month are making.

Sure if all 250 million americans saved 15 plastic bags, that'd make a difference, but on this issue I think the individual is hopelssly outnumbered in this battle. I think consuming less and trying to use paper instead of plastic when possible are worthwhile goals I try to live and instill in my kids (moreso now than in the future), but beyond that, I don't see much return on investment. (for example, I refuse to "let it mellow." The toilet gets flushed as many times as it needs to keep the stinkies out. That's like not showering to save water. eeeuuuuuuuuu or guacala)

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ws244 says on Nov 19, 2005, 18:16:

enviro The U.S senate still has to ratify it. In 1998 some 90 something senators were not about to so Clinton backed off. In addition China and India were exempted from all restricions.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 19, 2005, 19:24:

Colombian lifestyle WAY less harder on the environment. Just look at the vast difference in the amount of paper products consumed up here and down there. Look at how much less of the population drives cars. When you do see cars down there they are usually full of people. Very few little old ladies driving gargantuan SUVs.

My friend in Macau tells me he thinks China is the worst offender as far as messing up the environment, and he's been a lot more places than I have so I'll have to take his word for it.

For the record, I'm thinking of getting a solar heating system for my hot water tank. I actually just had to double-flush my 1.6gpf toilet just before writing this! And every bulb I have in this place is an energy saver, except for one indandescent which is on a dimmer.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 19, 2005, 19:35:

Oh yes My tenant and I were discussing the difference between soaps in Latin America and soaps in North America, I kinda was thinking about it because Desi mentioned it regarding the hot water issue.

In Latin America they don't heat as much water so they use less energy and in general they use way less water too per person BUT...
That super strong soap is apparently not super duper biodegradable and causes bad imbalances in the ecosystem, encouraging growth of some kinds of algae disproportionately, killing some other species of animals and plants etc.

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Crazy4Cali says on Nov 19, 2005, 19:55:

Energy WRT: "In Latin America they don't heat as much water so they use less energy..."

Duhhhhh... when was the last time it snowed in Latin America (below 5,000' elevation, anyway).

Up hear in the northern climes, we kinda have to heat things more than they do in Latin America (he wrote as the thermometer dips below 5-degrees for the night).

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 19, 2005, 21:17:

Colombian environmental movement Colombia has a surprisingly large environmental movement, considering the other problems the country faces. I'd say on the whole the average Colombian impacts the environment a LOT less than an average 1st worlder. However, there are some real environmental travesties being allowed in Colombia as we speak. First among them, I'd say, is deforestation for logging, legal crops and illegal crops. Most of the areas where this is happening are places like Choco and Amazonas where laws mean very little. How to control things there is a very good question.

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kernow62 says on Nov 19, 2005, 22:32:

I don't know GDL. I once went and stayed with my wife's cousin and family (they're Hare Krishnas) we only ate vegetables and fruit and I thought I was going to explode. I was so embarrased, I actually slept with my pasty white ass hanging out of the window so that I wouldn't stink the place up too much!

Lentils, lentils and more bloody lentils!

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platano says on Nov 19, 2005, 22:55:

Lucia Rojas, gracias por tu preocupación con este tema... La comparto, desde el 22 de Abril de 1970, el primer "Earth Day" cuando decidí la cosa más importante que yo podria hacer para conservar los recursos de La Tierra y minimizar los impactos de contaminación seria hacerme la vasectomia y no traer niños al mundo. Y lo hice cuando era joven (en 1970) para asegurar ningún nacimiento por accidente. :)

Parece que Colombia entera esta haciendo lo mismo según las estadísticas:

Tasa bruta de natalidad en Colombia, 1970 ..... 38

Tasa bruta de natalidad en Colombia, 2003 ..... 22

FUENTE: UNICEF

La iglesia colombiana no ayuda cuando prohibe el aborto, las contraceptivas y las pastillas abortivas (como RU486) que uno toma el dia después.

Cada nueva criatura que nace (aunque es adorable) implica un impacto negativo para el organismo vivo llamado Gaia
Gaia tiene la capacidad de arreglar el problema pero requiere una extinción masiva de un especie llamado homo sapiens. (Ha pasado antes más de una extinción masiva global y puede volver a pasar)

plátano

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platano says on Nov 19, 2005, 23:19:

Doy una propuesta al problema ecológico... LA VASECTOMIA A mi me importa mucho el problema ecológico y no solo esta noche... para mi ha sido de primera importancia desde 22/4/70... cuando escuché un discurso de Stephanie Mills sobre la relación entre la sobrepoblación de La Madre Tierra y la devastación de sus recursos naturales y la contaminación. Quiero mucho a mi Madre Tierra. Tengo un cariño tierno por Ella. Para mi es como una Diosa. Es una Diosa.

Estoy dando una propuesta que puede minimizar la contaminación y el impacto negativo que resulta de 70 años (promedio) del consumo de los recursos naturales de La Tierra por cada persona que nace. Mi propuesta se llama vasectomia, aborto, pastillas anticonceptivas y pastillas abortivas. La vasectomia--para hacerme incapaz de impregnar a una mujer mientras ayudando a La Madre Tierra-- esa fue mi decisión personal frente la cuestión ecológica. Nunca he arrepentido la decisión de hacerme la vasectomía. Ha resultado en estos 35 años de sexo libre sin riesgo de embarazo para mis compañeras. ¡Antes lo hemos disfrutado más! :)

plátano

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platano says on Nov 19, 2005, 23:23:

GDL, gracias a Dios tu censura fue solo en broma... pero el español es mi segunda lengua asi que tenga cuidado porque estoy seguro que mis mensajes contienen errores (y no sólo de ortografía porque estoy tecleando rápido). Como dice el dicho colombiano: "Soldado avisado no muere en guerra." Estas avisado no depender de mi español. ¡Pero rico si aprendas nuevo vocabulario!

plátano

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 20, 2005, 03:25:

so what can we do Once again, education is the key to improvement in environmental awareness and that's what we do here in Sweden. It's one of the key areas in educational programs in all schools and children are taught from the tender age of pre-nursery to think about the environment and ecology.

Some examples:
We try to avoid all plastic or paper tableware such as plates, cups, knives, spoons and forks.

All toilets have a single and double flush system.

All paper is recycled and all waste is sorted in several different containers: organic waste, carton, clear glass, coloured glass, metal,newspapers, hard plastics, hazardous waste, batteries, electronic waste, bulk waste and the last item would be burnable waste (all the other stuff that cannot be sorted separately.

We buy local products whenever possible.

We encourage children and their parents to walk to school or ride bikes; not to drive or drop off the kids if they live at reasonable distance from school. (There's usually a school within walking distance from every home in towns and cities).

Most Scandinavians are extremely environmental- concerned and reinforce these programs at home.

At community-level we vote for the candidates with sustainable ecological policies to city council.

Back to Colombia:

There are ecological policies and pressure groups in Colombia but like many other important things they haven't been prioritized by the present government. The overall most serious environmental issues: the negligent treatment of sewage and garbage disposal. Deforestation and erosion causing climate changes. Dangerous chemical substances released in water (rivers, lakes, oceans). Lack of concern and awareness of environmental issues at grass-roots level. Air pollution for the lack and/or lack of enforecement of laws that regulate the emissions from industries, public and private transportation.

I'm sure there are plenty more.

I still love Colombia.

Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 20, 2005, 07:32:

I got the article from yesterdays Tiempo. Easy to find. The whole medio ambiente section was scary yesterday. The articles on my beloved Amazonas are horrendous. That's the thing with those statistics, everytime we look at them they are sooo scary we prefer to think: " Oh, that must be some environmental freak or some kind of green peace scam"( btw Greenpeace hasn't done s***)Because they really are scary.

Thankyou all for answering... makes me feel less alone to see that soem other people really care, some just feel theres nothing we can do. But I try to stay hopeful. All this term at the school where i teach we have been talking about the environment and how to help. Newer generations react even more positevely than us...they worry about it and they preach stuff to their parents... I just hope they wouyld grow up faster..and that the older generations would die faster.. (cause we really dont give a rat's ass about anything ECO)

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sydneygirl says on Nov 20, 2005, 09:56:

two ideas In Australia, you now have to pay for your plastic bags if you want them at the supermarket, there are fabric ones that cost $2 and they are great little bags, I use them for everything! I always buy one because I forget to bring the other ones i brought so I have heaps. They should do that here in Colombia at places like Olympica and Exito.

There should be a fine from the ploice for people who litter, it would cut the amount of rubbish thats on the ground and the Govt would make more money to steal from the people which im sure would make yet another dodgy politican rich, but hey at least its also helping the enviroment instead of the corrupt armed forces.
Thats just Two little things I thought of off the top of my head.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 20, 2005, 11:23:

BTW they do do that in Colombia they do that exact same thing at Paloquemao. You're right, they should do it at Exito etc too though!

They also do have a fine for littering, it's just very difficult to enforce because they dont have that much police. Compared to NYC, Bogota is spotlessly clean though!! Thats probably why we are overrun by rats too!

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Crazy Eagle says on Nov 20, 2005, 11:59:

spraying coca plants I'm surprised nobody mentioned that. All those dammned toxic chemicals being sprayed by airplanes is causing a lot of harm.

"The gate is straight, deep and wide. Break on through to the other side." Jim Morrison

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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kernow62 says on Nov 20, 2005, 12:02:

Oh didn't you hear... acording to the fine folks who make the stuff it isn't harmful at all!

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kernow62 says on Nov 21, 2005, 04:23:

GIB the king of alarmist propoganda.

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kernow62 says on Nov 21, 2005, 07:36:

You are absolutely right as always. :-)

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ws244 says on Nov 21, 2005, 08:07:

environment Well the scandinavian Countries are unique to the world in themselves.

They are socialist democracies, anti immigration, mostly well educated white europeans and do not want nor do not have masses of minorities to deal with.

If the Scandinavian countries had open door minority immigration policies as in the U.S. their socialist service structure birth to grave policies would be monetarily broke. As such presently they can well afford their enviromental policies, condemm the rest of the world particularly bash the States.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 21, 2005, 08:47:

Scandinavia vs. USA immigration policies While some of the Scandinavian and Nordic countries have indeed had rather restrictive immigration policies due to their small size and low population, Sweden has been accepting a lot of immigrants and refugees considering the size of the country and the economical possibilities to provide humane and fair start for people coming here as economical refugees from the poverty-ridden third world countries. At the moment, about 12% of the total population is foreign-born.

Sweden is the sixth-largest refugee-receiving country in Europe (more refugees than for example in France, UK, Spain or Italy.)

While people in general consider immigration being positive and enriching the society here some oppositionis found due to the heavy economical strain these new groups of immigrants represent to the national economy. The newcomers are well-taken care of and a reasonable standard of living is provided from the day 0 in Sweden. As soon as you have a legal permit to stay in the country you obviously enjoy all the social benefits of a native-born Swede.

I am not an immigration specialist but I doubt that our immigration policy be more restrictive than that of USA or Canada.

Cheers,
Desi



Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada









Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Nov 21, 2005, 10:54:

In Colombia we don't recycle nothing really, look in Bogota they are building more and more near the mountains, Those all buses and trucks, we used a lot of poweful quemicals at home, quemicals that are banned here in the UK for domestic used. we through rubbish in the rivers, look the salto del tequendama, I don't know if they clean it already but it was very contaminated the same with the Bogota River that used to be a long time ago a very beautiful river. the list can go on and this is just Bogota.

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kernow62 says on Nov 21, 2005, 10:54:

Hey Desi, I want to move to Sweden and be taken care of. ;-)

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ws244 says on Nov 21, 2005, 14:52:

sweden If sweden had as liberal immigration policies as the U.S. the U.K. Germany, France etc. Sweden would be over-run with immigrants. Immigrants go to the countries whom provide the most free benefits, which is currently the U.K.-- Sweden is not about to give up their "cradle to grave" benefits, nor legislate themselves in to political correctness as the U.s. or the U.K. As their immigration costs rise their immigration will be reduced.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 22, 2005, 00:00:

For the record ONCE AGAIN the USA's immigration policy is ANYTHING but open door. It is one of the hardest countries to get into on Earth, especially on a legitimate work visa. It literally took me a couple years to figure out how to legally immigrate here from Canada. Unless you are a nurse or a teacher or a doctor or have credentials in some other area of national need, it's next to freaking impossible.

Ws, your immigration info is a good 20 years or more out of date.

They DEFINITELY recycle glass bottles in Bogota. Just look at how used to shit the bottle of soda is next time you buy it, with those rings around the top of it.

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ARMacleod says on Nov 22, 2005, 10:38:

There is little personal or political will.

If its yellow, let it mellow
If its brown, wash it down. (From the film Meet the Fockers)

A 1 or two lt plastic bottle or a couple of clean bricks in the cistern will save lots of water

Turn off tap when not used, like in between brushing of teeth.

There are TV sets etc on standby, lights on needlessly etc.

There are hundreds of simple things that can be done by ordinary folk, for example if everyone dropped the temperature control down by 2 Deg C, it would save over a million tonnes of pollutant gasses from being released into the air.

Will it happen? not a chance, generally people just do not give a damn, it is as simple as that, the odd few who do give a damn, think that their minute effort will make no difference.

I lived in Oxford up until about three months ago, there we had recycling systems in place that segregated just about everything. Having moved to Swindon (about 30 miles 51 km) away, there is no segregation of anything, however the council taxes are lower, what is that all about when small district councils can override the wishes of central government.

Did the USA sign Koyota? if not, why not? Perhaps in this case, complacent insularism. I am not knocking the USA, it is just a statement of basic fact, which is sad because the great loss of American life during the worst storms in many years have been put down to ‘global warming'.

The fact is, until the various governments have the will to act, no one else will bother.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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ws244 says on Nov 22, 2005, 14:17:

immigration from Canada Well it is quite simple for Canadians to immigrate here on a work visa, just a matter of having a U.S. company sponsor them. If one had difficulities it was probably the profession, lack of one, or other issues. Colombians also can immigrate here on a work visa if they find a business to sponsor them.

Now if one is saying legal entry is somewhat restrictive, just look for example and try and immigrate legally to Colombia or Mexico without any money, etc. So in the end it is not restrictive compared to other countries. Also the U.S. has 12 million already here and living quite well illegally.

Of course one could be creative and just say they are requesting political asylum from the Socialist Liberal Republic of Canada.

Have the Chinese, India, etc also sign the Kyoto and then maybe something will happen. By the way the 3rd largest consumer of oil in the world is now China after the U.S. and Japan.

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Rubiazo says on Nov 22, 2005, 20:37:

MUCH easier to immigrate legally to Colombia or Mex Or Brazil for that matter, trust me I have looked into all three.
The US is a VERY difficult country to get a work visa for. It's not like any business can sponsor you. You better have an offer on the table from some massive Fortune 500 company and even then if they have never petitioned for that type of visa before, chances are it will get turned down. Getting a work visa to almost any other country is a walk in the park in comparison, with very few exceptions. Even xenophopic Japan gives people an easier time, although they are a lot better at kicking people out once the visa has expired.

You really have no idea how hard it really is, I can see. And the illegals here in NYC are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT 'living quite well',

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