English Teachers?? my two cents...

adsldn says on Sep 26, 2009, 21:23:

Welcome to the third world!

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johnny2009 says on Sep 26, 2009, 21:24:

I'll tell you what dicks me off, that last night I was in a bar here in Chile and I was overhearing two so called English teachers. For a start, in English they were shitting Chile, saying Argentina was nicer, and that Chileans think Argentina is rubbish but they are just jealous, and that Chileans think that Argentinians are lazy but surely they cannot be lazier than the Chileans.

But then, she says to he, that it is really hard to learn Spanish in Chile because they speak it all nasty, and he says to she, yes, Chilean Spanish and Spanish Spanish are like American English and British English, whereas Spanish Spanish and American English are the correct forms and Chilean Spanish and British English well they are just fucked up

Needless to say I had to stab the pair of cunts

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babygirl says on Sep 26, 2009, 21:32:

johnny...hahaha I hope you had a little chat with them. American English the correct form of what? What a stupid thing to say. They probably thought they were soooo cool sitting there talking English thinking nobody was understanding them while they ripped on their host country. Real classy.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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NiceMangos says on Sep 26, 2009, 22:52:

They are right though, Argentina is nicer. lol

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tabla says on Sep 27, 2009, 04:16:

I once had a German guy stay with me who was an English teacher in Germany. I noticed he was regularly making some fundamental error and I imagined he would like to know, so I told him. He was so angry with me! He insisted he was right. Later I told this story to another German friend and he said "I would be the same!" Cultural difference!

I also write for the archive.

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cstew47 says on Sep 27, 2009, 06:22:

Does anybody else get disgusted when they run in to an "English teacher" while traveling and they barely speak proper English themself, or maybe even read some of the posts on here from people looking for work as an English teacher and they can't even use the correct "there, they're or their" or have spelling errors in their writing?

Like "themself"?

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Bill Turley (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 27, 2009, 07:07:

babygirl says on Sep 27, 2009, 07:21:

Bill, I don't think I'd be able to explain grammar to anybody without your big book! haha.

cstew47... ya... I'm not an English teacher and really have no desire to formally teach English, good thing isn't it? I should proof my own work for typos a bit better before I hit send. Good catch, you're the best.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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bpowell84 says on Sep 27, 2009, 07:35:

Well, I'm not an English teacher but if you heard me speak amongst my friends you would probably classify me in the group that does not speak correct english. If you were to hear me speak english at work, you would think I was a different person because I definitely know, or iI like to think i know correct English. I would hope those who are teaching English would know correct English, but i doubt its required, I spoke to a Colombian highschool English teacher in Bogota, she was unable to carry a conversation at all in English. I think sometimes on this board people weigh to heavily on typos. I know very well the difference of there, their, they're, our, are, two, to, too, but sometimes when your typing you'll just put the wrong thing on accident. This forum post are not graded English papers, so I don't see the big deal.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 27, 2009, 07:48:

I have lived here almost 2 years and have visited all the major cities since 2002. I have yet to encounter an English teacher here in Colombia, Colombian or gringo, who i thought was qualified to teach English, or to whom i would send my child. Pathetic. I agree with the OP. I think the Colombian students are getting the shit end of the stick in this regard. Trash In/ Trash Out.

Part of the problem is all the gringos who want to live in Colombia think that he/she can support themselves simply as English teachers, even though their only qualification is "I have been speaking English all my life!". So the students are taught shitty English and learn it this way.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Bill Turley (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 27, 2009, 07:57:

Haddeman says on Sep 27, 2009, 08:01:

Jonny,
please send me their addresses so I can stab them too!

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Shortiao says on Sep 27, 2009, 08:24:

my wifes friend is an english teacher in medellin. her english is on a par with my spanish....i really don't believe that i could teach any one spanish.

"cuando una persona toma otro pasaporte....pierde su identidad!" - Shortiao

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JGD (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 27, 2009, 08:36:

Panama says on Sep 27, 2009, 09:07:

I sat in for 5 minutes on an English class last week in Bogota and the teacher couldent even pronounce the words correctly and they were charging 180,000 pesoes for a 15 hour class. But she went to a university in Bogota and took an English course so this qualifies her to teach .. What a joke.. Hell I could live there on that kind of money with 5 students a week and do a much better job than that..

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cstew47 says on Sep 27, 2009, 09:40:

Love ya babygirl

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Philly says on Sep 27, 2009, 09:55:

I am an English teacher and I can not express my thoughts correctly all the time. I have a BA and two master´s degrees, but does that make me unqualified to teach? No, it doesn´t. I can teach something to my students and I can even tell them why. I have a perfect example. How many professional coaches coach professional teams and have never played the sport but only studied it? HUNDREDS !!!! The ICFS scores of my students has improved every year that I have been teaching. I guess I am doing something right.

just my 2 cents

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Noelito40 says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:12:

I know Colombians here who are taking English courses online with the SENA, and having seen the standard of English of some of the tutors, I do feel a lot of sympathy for the students. After all, if you are a student (of any discipline) you will most likely take what your teacher/tutor says as gospel, so the students are reading and learning bad English, believing it to be correct.

Noelito

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Bill Turley (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:14:

pyntaman says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:31:

FAscist

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Philly says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:33:

I also know Colombians who are working with Sena. I would bet that their English Level is higher then most of the posters here.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:49:

Well, Bill, i guess i have pretty high standards too: I need to understand what they are saying. Pretty high, yup.

My **opinion** is that if you have NOT been trained as a teacher first (not the one-month full-time courses or online courses either, like the people use here only as a means to satisfy their travel adventures and to support themselves in a foreign country) in order to qualify yourself in the teaching processes as a bona fide teacher, professor, or instructor, then you have no fokin business taking money from students who are paying you to "teach" them English, because you are not. It takes more than a month to become a Teacher. The rest are posers.

The Colombian English teachers who never studied abroad are almost as bad as the gringos who come here and pose as English teachers because they speak some sort of English. The local English teachers were taught shitty English, mastered shitty English, and now TEACH shitty English.

People posing as English teachers, have you no shame??? Have you no decency??? (a la UN style...jajja)

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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webmanco says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:19:

Noelito40 says on Sep 27, 2009, 10:12 (today): flag

I know Colombians here who are taking English courses online with the SENA,



Most of Sena online English instructors are based in San Andres Islas.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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theflatline says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:32:

I have had the misfortune to know many English teachers in Colombia and 99.9% were awful. I am including native Colombians, North Americans, and Brits.

A native English speaker will improve his structure and grammar after his first six months of teaching. Why? Because he actually builds on and reinforces what he already knows.

The Autonoma in Manizales had a 16 month course in English. For the first ten months it was focused primarily on speaking the language. The last six months were on grammar and sentence structure. I was amazed at how functional the students were at 10 months into the course.

The majority of the teachers were either native, or had lived in an English speaking country for at least two years.

My father in Colombia was an English professor for around 30 years. However, he lived in the states from age 7 to 35 and was a print and television journalist, and he you would never know he was not a gringo when you hear him speak, same when he speaks spanish.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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jimmymcc says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:32:

To be honest you don't need a BA to teach you either have it or you don't, and why waste time and confuse the kids with all this present perfect etc rubbish, what a load of bull, most want to speak normal english,
Last week I met a 10 years old kid and all his class are still not able to write a full page about the city they live in, but they were learning about Newton's Law in English, my first question is WHY, second who cares about Newton at that age,
this is where the Colombian system is failing the kids, if you don't have the basics what is the point, its like us learning Spanish, they were asked to write in their own words about Newton, but when I Googled it, all the information the teacher had given them was straight off the internet,

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onthemoon says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:35:

It s not enough to know the language to be a teacher, being a teacher involves having the methodology and pedagogy to make your students create knowledge through their own experiences, being a teacher is more than stand in front of the students and tell them what you know, it doesnt matter how much grammar or how good your english is if you cant be a guide into the process.
Learning a second language takes time and you have to be able to develop the four basic skills which are listening, writing, speaking and listening, sometimes we (not native english teachers) include myself, have a hard time with some of them what makes teaching more difficult because kids learn what we say jeje Though it depends on where you work and how high the standars are there.

Love Happens...

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theflatline says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:38:

onthemoon,

You might need to give me some spanish lessons. ;)

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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Philly says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:41:

That is why you need to understand what you are teaching. Grammar is a very important part of the language. I have and have had many students who learned English by watching TV or listening to music. Yes, these students were always the best speakers but not the best students. The students who understood why always did better on test. You need to have a proper mix of the two to really understand what the language is all about.

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onthemoon says on Sep 27, 2009, 11:42:

Can you afford them? =P

Love Happens...

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theflatline says on Sep 27, 2009, 12:14:

Philly,

I agree. I have taught English on and of in Colombia for 20 years and the best students were always the one who had a good mix of grammar and speaking.

However, the worst ones were the ones who had been sent to English academies who inundated them with grammar and rules from day one, and concentrated very little on the speaking part.

They might score well on a grammar test, but if you dropped them into a situation where they actually had to communicate in the language, then all bets were off.

Plus, the classes I have seen that focused solely on grammar from the outset, were the ones that had the most dropouts. Sheer boredom and frustration is the bane of teaching.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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excavator59 says on Sep 27, 2009, 13:00:

TFL I agree with you ,I don't claim to be the best English teacher in the world like Bill says most Colombians who have studied English are great with the Grammar (Better than me I would say ) but holding a proper conversation is harder ,plus like you say some pronunciation leaves a lot to be desired .
I'm like you Bill I know what sounds right to be honest when I first started training to be a teacher here I didn't have a clue with most of the Grammatical terms but when you study more you think I didn't know I knew that until it was explained to you .
More than likely most Spanish speakers would be at pains to explain Spanish grammar to me.
TFL the way we are taught to teach the Grammar is slowly starting with the most common which as we all know is Be just bringing it in gradually then they don't get confused ,christ I've had kids bring me homework from school it would be confusing for most English native speakers let alone them.
We tend to have a lot of fun activities as well so they don't get bored,like you say boredom & frustration are the bane .

Life is like a Pubic Hair on a Toilet Seat (Sooner or Later you get Pissed Off)

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dtbrooklyn says on Sep 27, 2009, 16:28:

It's interesting the amount of pent-up anger here towards English teachers, both native and Colombian. I wonder where that is coming from. I don't know that nationalities of the posters, but it seems like a phenomenon that I have seen in the states in which teachers become the object of scorn and completely unrealistic expectations. Criticizing teachers is very easy, much easier than the actual job of teaching. But really, why does this affect your lives so much that you feel the need to post anonymous comment condeming the majority of teachers? Where does such venom come from?

I agree with Bill Turley that the great majority of English teachers I have met in Colombia are competent, responsible, and quite skilled in English. In fact, I can't think of a single person about whom I would say - that there is a shitty teacher. I work in a school with loads of Colombian teachers and few if any have spent significant time abroad in an english speaking country. However, their english, and more importantly their teaching is first-rate, often better than my own despite me being the native speaker. They are often dedicated to improving their english and their pedagogy through conferences and professional development. They constantly pepper me with questions about little expressions in English that they aren't sure about, and i think that's great. Are they perfect? nope. But no one is, nor is that the goal. They share their love of languages with the students and, hopefully, inspire them to love the language as well. I've been in south america for over two years and I will happily admit that my spanish is nowhere near as refined as these teachers many of whom have never left Colombia.

In terms of gringo teachers - there are normally always some people who are more committed to traveling and funding their travels with teaching than with actually conecting with students and helping them to improve. That said, the majority that I have seen here in Colombia are excellent. it's not as much of a destination for the world traveler as some other places are, and that cuts down on the amount of flotsam.

The one question I always have is when you go through the interview process here in Colombia they NEVER ask to see you teach a class. That seems like the most obvious thing in the world to me, and the most important - how do you interact with the students, what is your classroom presence, etc... Instead they subject you to a battery of old and irrelevant psychological tests. Craziness.

ok, i'll finish my rant here, have a good one.

porque no te callas?

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onthemoon says on Sep 27, 2009, 16:37:

Totally true dtb.

Love Happens...

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span_colombia says on Sep 27, 2009, 19:09:

thanks dtb

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 27, 2009, 19:18:

no anger here..just tired of people posing here in Colombia as teachers, when all they are in reality are native english speakers. They seem to breed like rabbits. And these types are found in all levels of english instruction here...the students receive the shit end of the stick.....

Posers, and you know who you are, have you no shame? have you no decency??? jajajja./.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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christobeldawg says on Sep 27, 2009, 20:27:

I have been learning spanish the old fashioned way, by being thrown into the frying pan. I try to communicate every day with someone who speaks very little english. I have never taken a course in spanish, but we communicate fairly well. I have been doing this every day for over a year, and am thinking that I am now ready for an intense real course, to help me smooth out the rough edges. I think, ultimately, it takes alot of real world talking, and then, for me, a formal course or two, and then one is good to go.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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johnny2009 says on Sep 27, 2009, 20:36:

"I try to communicate every day with someone who speaks very little english."

Americans?

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babygirl says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:00:

dtbrook: "Criticizing teachers is very easy, much easier than the actual job of teaching. But really, why does this affect your lives so much that you feel the need to post anonymous comment condeming the majority of teachers? Where does such venom come from?"
********
I don't think that anybody is condemning the majority of teachers. There are just some bad teachers out there. You're going to find it where ever you go. I can make the same comment about some of the teachers my daughter has had over the years too (in Canada).

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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babygirl says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:08:

johnny2009 says on Sep 27, 2009, 20:36 (today): flag
"I try to communicate every day with someone who speaks very little english."
Americans?
*************
zing. hahaha.

c-dawg: "I have been doing this every day for over a year, and am thinking that I am now ready for an intense real course, to help me smooth out the rough edges."
*********
So if c-dawg, is looking for formal classes, how would he determine if whoever is teaching him actually speaks Spanish well? He could be getting Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel of Colombia and might not even know the difference because it sounds like the teacher is speaking Spanish and the teacher says he's taken an online certificate to teach Spanish as a Foreign Language. (just using your situation as an example c-dawg, I hope you don't get Cletus as a teacher = ;p)

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:09:

No one is bashing teaching as a profession...just posers who charge like they are teachers....

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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ellbee2 says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:11:

Come on you guys. It's no different than any other career in any other country. Some people excel at what they do, and some are simply terrible, but most fall somewhere in the middle. Why some of you are threatened to the point of lashing out at folks who choose to teach English as a second language is beyond me. Notice the words "SECOND LANGUAGE", the goal for the majority of these Colombian students is to be able to communicate, not to speak the Queens English. Please find something more worth while to bitch about.

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going because you might not get there." Yogi Berra

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babygirl says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:12:

MC: Love the word poser, I'm going to resurrect it in to my lingo. I wonder how much Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel charges for lessons? LOL. Can you tell I was watching Simpons?

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:14:

again, no one is bashing teachers who are ESL...just the ones who seem to be in the majority here in Colombia who are not qualified to teach shit..or their only qualification is they speak the language, although be it poorly as well......if one is in this category, they deserve to be blasted and outed.....they are ripping the students off.......

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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babygirl says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:21:

meh... anyway it was just my 2 cents.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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theflatline says on Sep 27, 2009, 21:31:

It it is spelled poseur.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

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christobeldawg says on Sep 27, 2009, 22:04:

There are so many different ways to learn, good teacher or not. If ya wanna learn spanish, or english, just do it. There will be stumbling blocks along the way, whether through good or bad teachers. Just stay with it, find what works for YOU. There really aren't any quick fixes, including those advertised on tv and radio, or in the classroom, but all of those help. This is a foreign language we are talking about, no?

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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christobeldawg says on Sep 27, 2009, 22:08:

The ones who become proficient will be the ones who are bright, who are focused, who are patient and persistent, the ones who really want to learn it. Those will recognize bad teachers, and find a better one. It's like anything else, stop blaming, commit to learning, if you really want to, and you will. It's not rocket science, but it is another language. It took me 15-20 years to learn my own, and I still have a few questions about that one.

traveling hopefully is always better than arriving

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Miguel_Clavo says on Sep 28, 2009, 06:51:

Dictionary.com:


Main Entry: poser
Part of Speech: noun1
Definition: pretender
Synonyms: hypocrite, imposter, mimic, poseur, pretender
Notes: a poser is someone who sets test or exam questions or a difficult or perplexing question or problem; a poseur is a person who adopts an affected style or demeanor


any part of this you dont understand?.....and you of all people trying to correct someone elses spelling.....? ...TFF.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

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Philly says on Sep 28, 2009, 14:09:

I knew you were right, but I just stayed out of it.

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