Engaged?

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 13:15:

I got my girlfriend something simple. The jeweler who is making her ring doesn't offer insurance outside the United States, so I got her something simple. She kept showing it to her girlfriends and relatives. She told me it would "look bad" for her to move into my apartment in El Laguito without some kind of public declaration that we were comprometidos. For example, I can't spend the night in the same bed with her at her parents house because we're not married. But then, I didn't want to spend the night alone in my apt. So... to legitimize it a little bit for publicity's sake, I gave her the little ring. In front of everybody. On one knee. With a band playing. And her parents applauding. At no time did it seem like the concept of being engaged was foreign to them.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 7, 2005, 13:55:

I dunno.... ...it seemed like a big deal to my novia, her family, and her compañeros de trabajo when we were officially engaged.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 14:23:

I'm with Desi on this one I don't think there are any hard and fast rule on this one, but in general, I think a gringo or any other guy who makes a habit of shipping of $$ to some Colombiana, has got to get his head examined.

Rings, Jewelry, money transfers......its all utterly rediculous. If guy want love, let him find love in his own backyard.

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 7, 2005, 14:28:

Agreed.. I should probably have my head examined, but I think that's besides the point. But I'm not one of those gringos blindly sending dollars or other things to Colombia...esp. now that my Colombianita is here in the U.S.

But, like they say...When you marry a latina, you marry her whole family.

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 14:29:

By the time you buy the engagement ring, you already HAVE the girl, Gomez. That last comment doesn't even belong on this thread. Next you'll be saying I should only call her collect, refusing to spend any money on the phone bill. And this from a guy who admittedly has no problem paying for sex. Buying an engagement ring is utterly ridiculous, but you going out and paying for ass is defensible? What are you smoking?

caslug says on Sep 7, 2005, 14:35:

A BIG question would be.. DO COL GUYS BUY ENGAGEMENT RING or just wedding ring? If the local guys don't do it then foreign guys dont have to either.

Wow CAM, your girl comes fr a conservative family then. But lots of other COL gals would have NO PROBLEM moving in with a guy(if they thought it was serious). Heck I met a 18 yr chica that moved in with her COL-American BF for a YEAR when she was 17! Maybe she is the except to the rule maybe not.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 14:44:

Cam0940 Have you lost your marbles sir? Look, if you're going to debate, then do it honestly and don't put words in my hand. Fair enough?

From what realm of common sense does that brilliant mind of yours lead you to believe that because I am an advocate for the decriminalization of prostitution, that I ever admitted to patronizing a prostitute. Please find such an admission. In fact, if you could use your eyes to read my posts, than you will readily see that I gave clear reasons for advocating decriminalizing prostitition. Among them was the ability to regulate and tax it. In fact, I also said that politicaly I am Libertarian and I subscribe to its platform on the matter. So that you don't make any more foolish posts in the future, I will send you the link that may help assist you in understanding from where I am coming from:

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml

In fact, your comment is so indicative of your lack of utterly having any ability to debate using any degree of intellectual honesty, I will ask you this question. Since I am a Libertarian, and the Libertarian party also supports the legalization of gambling and decriminalization of drugs, than following your logic, I not only must patronize prostitutes, but I am drug addict, and a chronic gambler as well right??

BAQ says on Sep 7, 2005, 15:04:

My wife Can't speak with any intelligence about the "Custom" but a few years back when I asked my wife to marry me (here in Colombia), as soon as she watched me pull the ring out, she KNEW what it was (engagement ring) and what it meant. I couldn;t even get the words out of my mouth "Will you marry me" before she got all excited and said yes.

Part of me has to wonder if some of that comes from watching american television shows. Maybe it is something new for the women here, I don;t honestly know.

Semper Fidelis !

tomtom33 says on Sep 7, 2005, 15:10:

If you love her, don't buy her a huge diamond ring. You will make her a target.

kernow62 says on Sep 7, 2005, 15:28:

That is the best advice I have heard for a long time tomtom33.

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 15:43:

OK, Gomez You never said you patronized prostitutes, and I apologize for saying otherwise. You did defend the practice vehemently. Your personal action/inaction is actually beside the point. Your belief was that if the woman wanted to sell, it was her body. By extension then, it is OK for the man to pay.

This can be in an alley, over the internet, or in an hourly rate hotel.

My question to you was: why is THAT practice OK when it's not OK to spend money on someone you actually have a relationship with? And not just any relationship, but a commitment to marriage?

WRT custom, it is customary HERE, in the United States, for a boyfriend to give his fiancee a ring. Since this will be a multicultural relationship, giving her a ring is fine. What? Are we only to observe Colombian customs now? In the end, evidence of American customs and Colombian customs will be present in the relationship. I don't care if Colombian boyfriends do it or not. I'm not a Colombian boyfriend. I'm supposed to compare myself to these guys? Do as they do? Avoid what they avoid? Nonsense.

On making your girlfriend a target: that pretty much goes without saying. I don't see how that advice is specific to Colombia.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 16:09:

Cam0940 With all due respect, I am not going to debate the issue as to the morality or imorrality of prostitution. That issue has already been debated in another thread, and we will have to just agree to disagree. Neither you or I have anything new to bring to the table.

I did not make prostitution an issue today. I never even mentioned the word prostitution. You, like a bunch of fools here, made a low blow because you objected to the only relavant issue that I brought up and that was the fact that I am against transcontinental relationships and stupid men throwing their money away by buying jewelry and sending money to the family of the their dream girls. I did not insult you personally for doing so. Your reckeless accusation that I patronize prostitutes was made in response to my post. So, lets be intellectually honest here.

You are wrong on another account sir. My personal action/inaction is NOT beside the point. Your accusal of my doing something that I would not do, and what is in fact unlawfull in most areas of the US, is not something you should be allowed to just summarily dismiss as unimportant because you deem it so.

Debate the facts, and don't read words where none were written. It is most annoying and makes you look foolish for doing so. Also, don't worry about what my political views are. They are my business and not yours. If you want a clarification as to why I feel that way, again, I direct you to the above link of Libertarian Party, and you will find all your answers.

The only thing that I would like to see in you next post is a retraction at minimum, and if you are real gentlman, an apology. Just to let you know, it will be accepted and all will be forgotten if you endeavor to do so.

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 16:35:

I did apologize for an irresponsible comment, and clarified myself. Your personal action/inaction is irrelevant in this ideological discussion. You needn't patronize prostitutes nor I have a Colombian fiancee for us to debate this issue.

Working girls are not the topic and I have no interest in making them the topic. However, given that you took great pains to defend their business, we have a reference point. This leads to the logical question: If that business is OK in your view, how can it be wrong to spend money on a woman you actually love? That's all I want to know. How can one be alright and the other "utterly ridiculous"?

Incidentally, the mention of prostitution was not meant to be a low blow--your earlier posts were a valid point of reference in a conversation that deals with men, women, and money.

rona says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:00:

looks like times are changing then . . . My fiancee and I got engaged last year and we had a nice dinner with both our parents and close relatives to formalize it . . . everything seemed perfectly normal, nothing seemed out of the ordinary for them . . . if you look in "El Universal" in the "Sociales" section you'll see every now and then people announcing their engagements the same way you would announce your wedding . . .

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:18:

I just want to say this, Am I I bought our wedding rings, they are engrave each other with our names, My husband bought me the engagement ring earlier.

engage brain before opening mouth

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:43:

Apology Accepted Thanks...and now to your Q. The two actions you are comparing are very unrelated in my opinion because while on the surface they seem related, in actuality, they are not.

If a man goes to a prostitute, the action of him paying for sex, is actually a business transaction. Nothing more. Money for service. I think you and I can both agree to that. Where we disagree is on the psychological and moral questions that may linger (to the extent that you claim they do) as a result of that transaction. At this point, we will not debate the issue further.

In the other situation, where a man is sending resources to a woman that he ostensibly loves, that is where we defer from the onset. I just don't think that a man can love a person in this setting. This issue has come up several times, and ironically Desi and I have been on the same side of the fence in this regard. The time, and interactions between two people that are required to determine if there really may be a loving and fulfilling relationship simply do not exist when two people cannot be together everyday, encounter each others stresses and joys, hardships and alike. It is more of an illusion...a hope, wish, or even as aspiration to be in a state of existence, but it is anything but a reality. What can be learned of someone on a telephone? How can you and she feel the emotional stressors that the each of you endures from day to day? What can be learned of someone when the only time you have together is a few weeks when you (the man) is off your job, away from home, spending your days and nights with a woman under the most pleasurable circumstances you can possibly imagine?

Do you call that a real relationship that is representative or indicative of what a man and woman endure?. Look, I don't know all the details, and I don't want to know the details of your relationship. Maybe it is different than the typical gringo loves Colombiana "deal." No it does not have to be the fat balding mid 50's gringo chasing down a hot Colombiana dressed in a way that most American girls never would. I am not an idiot. Nobody on PBH is. We have all seen the web sites. The 20 or 30 something girl chasing down her papers and meal ticket. The soft sweet voice. The pleasant scent, and all the other enticement that can work a lonely man into believing that he finally found the girl that will be there to comfort him in the manner and in the tradition of the American woman of the 60's as opposed to the liberated American (Gringa of today). Look Cam, sex sells. And sex appeal sells too.

You or any other gringo who falls victim into lulling himself into the false sense of security that a woman from a far away land, who knows nothing of his culture, or his language, or his food, will suddenly, to the astonishment of all think that she found the man of her dreams, is fooling themselves.

This web site is replete with men who think and fantasize in that manner. Along with that fantasy is a man's desire to do what his heart tells him to do. It's what men here often do quite naturally. Here a man buys his women gifts....the usual, Clothes, Jewelry, flowers, sexy garments, whatever. But, she is there, and you are here, so the only way you can show her you really care at this point, is by having an account with Western Union or the money transfer service of your choice.

And you do this all in contemplation of what you honestly believe is going to be a happy future with the love of your life for years to come. And yet, so often......and I do mean this, so often, as the women turns and turns the wheel so slowly, allowing for the passage of time to bring about her true goal which is to escape the hardships of her own country and the existence (or lack thereof) that engulfs and limits her capacity to achieve a better standard of living.....it is you Cam that becomes the vehicle by which she is set free. Not done for love, not done for her endeavor to have a true emotional commitment to a man that she claims to love, but in fact done for the purpose of embarking upon a pattern of stealth and deceit to achieve what is really important to her.

Cam, I never even remotely suggested that you were buying sex. I never suggested it in the least. In fact, dollar for dollar, to the extent that you may be having sex with her from time to time, the amount of money you are sending her probably would make her the highest price big city call girl far less expensive than she is. I honestly believe you when you say that you love her. And I honestly believe you when you say that you believe she loves you. I never in any way attempted to infer that you were buying sex. I just have a problem with the relationship to begin with. I think it is expensive. I think it is more of illusion, that you feel is beset in truth and honesty I don't think it is based in reality..........The same variables, the same subsets, but a different interpretation as to what their significance is. That is what we have here….in very much we view the results of legalized prostitution above…..Same variables, but different interpretations. It’s like the old “the glass half empty/half full� story.

In closing (finally) maybe I am wrong. For your sake, I hope I am. It's your money. It's your time...and lost time in terms of the fact that you could have been dating Sally, Susan, Marsha, or Taylor (you should be so lucky to date Taylor) who lives within minutes of your home instead of someone who is playing the role of a "girlfriend/fiance" future wife, who lives quite literally in another hemisphere.

Us Latinos see it that way. We have a trite yet ever so applicable expression that requires no deep thought. "Amor de Lejos es un Amor de......." And with that I will say that ANY other Latino or Latina can fill in the last word. Hmmmm So often spoken, So often true!!

Rubiazo says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:49:

According to my gf giving a girl a ring before you are married is perfectly normal here and a way of showing you are serious!

Rubiazo says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:52:

and btw we have yet to exchange rings

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 17:59:

Well I'd have to say.. I got engaged in the church atop Monserrate. Screw the superstition. That's all it is.

There's nothing wrong with men or women seeking love in any part of the world. It's a very small world and each person has the right to pursue happiness wherever they find it, be it in your own back yard, Colombia or any other place it exists.

Whatever makes you happy is all that is important and nothing else. Nobody's opinion matters, not your friends, family and certainly not any opinions expressed here. Opinions are like assholes as they say and everybody's got one. Whether they choose to impose that opinion on someone or not is their choice and it's yours to ignore it or let it bother you. I've lived for as long as I can remember by this personal credo: "Never expect an asshole to make sense". Try that sometime. When someone pisses you off, just utter those words and somehow, it tends to lighten up the feelings. Just blow them off for what they are and move the hell on.

Someone cuts you off on the road and then flips the bird as if it were your fault or whatever, well, guess what? This person is the asshole and has to live in that skin. It's not your skin so be glad about that and smile. Bye asshole... live your life that way, and that only affects you, not me. It's basically, sort of like suffering the fool gladly.

My ex was a serious Type-A personality person. I once put a Triple A Motor Club bumper sticker on her car as a joke because she was really Type-AAAAA. Always flying off and most of the time with good reason because of some offense of one person or another, her boss, a co-worker, etc., and I'd repeatedly say, "well, never expect an asshole to make sense", and she gradually got the gist of that and eased up a lot.

My personal opinion on my Colombiana, my Rola, my wife who I would marry again every year of my life, is this:

I could've looked for years in the states and never come across a woman who was in posession of the soulful, loving spirit that I've found in her, and I thank God for that every single day. There are multitudes of women like her in Colombia and elsewhere. They are most definitely not all players like they are made out to be over and over and over again here.

You go cam0940. Follow your gut but of course, be wise. There have been many, many contributions here dealing with women who absolutely will take you over - and even after years in a relationship, but you will know if she's good as gold or black as coal. Just be aware. I've gotten into massive arguments with my wife, long before she was my wife because of the dialogue here that I brought 'home' and questioned within our own relationship. In hindsight, it was constructive. It could have been destructive of course but I had a woman who was perfectly willing to defend her character, her morals and her family upbringing and you know, a part of me is glad that we had those heated discussions and a part of me is regretful also. Maybe I shouldn't be but I still am because I was clearly insulting in questioning her character and I don't like that we "went there". Maybe it was something I had to do to clear my own mind but it was at her expense. I hurt her to the heart and this particular heart is way beyond gold as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, her parent's did one hell of a job raising her and I'm very thankful to them also.

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 18:14:

G5 For someone who is so opposed to relationships and swears them off, I don't think you should be dishing out advice to those who wish to pursue one. Maybe you're one of these Latino's who doesn't like the thought of Gringo's and Latina's together and so, you offer your distortion of these intercontinental relationships, when you yourself are not even in a serious relationship. Really, you're out of touch with the situation and should probably not get too involved in long-distance relationship discussions, let alone local, because so far you've clearly indicated nothing more than the fact that your viewpoints as you've stated them are clear distortions loosely based on your own bad experiences.

BAQ says on Sep 7, 2005, 18:23:

Humm Girlfriend, Fiance, Wife = Sex with Commitment
Prostitute = Sex with No Commitment

Although I do not use prostitutes, I agree you might as well legalize it, clean it up and tax it. Honestly, you are not going to stop a profession that has been around since before Christ.

Semper Fidelis !

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 19:35:

Mario....I don't have a clue of what your are talking about Your post made absolutely no sense in that it was not applicable in to me.

"For someone who is so opposed to relationships and swears them off..."

I am opposed to relationships and swear them off? Mario, oh Mario...HelllooooooMario. I never said that. Please show me where I did.

Next:
So because I am currently not in a serious relationship, I can't pass judgement? Really Mario. And how do you know about what my state is regarding relationships are???? Have I been telling you things that I cannot seem to remember telling you. Helloooo Mario???

Next: My bad experiences prevents me from commenting. Bad experiences?Mario.....????? OK, so you have applied some new form of logic that leads you to believe because I had one bad relationship...it renders me completely incapable of passing judgement on international relationships??...a love between two people that have about as much in common and know as much about each other as a fish and bird do. One time I told someone that a fish may love a bird, but where are they going to live?

Mario, I'm pretty smart, I had a girlfriend in Colombia, but Mario you are forgetting....uh hum....I was born there.

And lastly, as to your assertion that I don't believe Gringos and Latinas should be together, Mario my only answer to that is you are forgetting, I live in Chicago, not in Bosie Idaho, or Cedar Rapids, Iowa, or Casper Wyoming, or Decatur, Illinois, I think us Latinos and Gringos can do really fine together, at work, at play, in the home and yes Mario, believe it or not, in the bedroom too. If a Latina wants to Marry a Gringo, good for him and Her both.

Now one more thing Mario, you have had this nasty habit of putting words in my Hand. Could just apply the literary skills that you possess, to the extent that you possess them, to read what I write,and not what you want me want me to write. I don't think that is asking too much.....Thanks

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 19:50:

Well Gomez No one who has no more in common than a fish and a bird should be together, whether they live next door to each other or in separate hemispheres. I'll give you that.

WRT your previous post, the lengthier one, I appreciate your warnings and can even understand your point of view. Those fears and concerns do not apply to my situation. Thank you anyway.

I do have one comment: I have several friends who are attorneys. We have a common problem. They tell me that unless they are dating an attorney, and preferably one in the same area of the law, then trying to explain the day's stressors is pointless. I, unfortunately, even dating attorneys, find that few women know the difference between a Treasury bond and a performance bond. So then, if we were to begin talking about the derivative products that are based on bonds, which is the heart of my work, she generally has no chance of understanding the difference between what is "good" and what is "bad".

I have no other major stressors in my life. It's all between the bells.

Think about it: police officers, firemen, attorneys, portfolio managers, anyone who has a vocabulary and variables specific to their profession will be hard pressed to explain them to the layman.

So, why did you construe my fiancee in a negative light simply because she can't understand my stressors? Half my CLIENTS can't understand my stressors.

rona says on Sep 7, 2005, 19:59:

every discussion needs a G5 . . . . . . I think you guys are taking G5's comments WAY TOO PERSONALLY - I met a Colombiana, got engaged, brought her here and we're about to get married - we couldn't be happier . . . Whereas G5 brings up valid points, I don't believe they apply to me - for those of you that get bent out of shape from a different point of view, maybe you need to re-examine your relationships because he obviously touched a nerve . .

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:05:

Literary skills to the extent that I posess them Well, first the expression is actually thus: "putting words in my mouth". The other expression is "talk to the hand" which is by and large what you should do. It seems that you use your adaptation of the first expression often around here so I suppose many of us must really be mistakenly putting words in your hand. LOL...

As far as your previous comments regarding your personal views on relationships, they're all here, my recall is intact and I won't be wasting my time to retrieve them for you; this reply to your last post is just about all the time I'll allow myself to waste in this regard. Perhaps the "helllooooo" should be directed toward your favorite mirror.

Your statements:

"So because I am currently not in a serious relationship, I can't pass judgement?"

well probably because you resist comitted relationships anyway by your own account, and it's also fairly ignorant to be passing judgement on something you know nothing about, so why would your judgement to be respected - and...

"OK, so you have applied some new form of logic that leads you to believe because I had one (really ?) bad relationship...it renders me completely incapable of passing judgement on international relationships?"

see above - and...

"Mario, I'm pretty smart, I had a girlfriend in Colombia"

oooooooooookay then.... speaks volumes on your formidable relationship experience, notwithstanding international relationships...

and then there's this strange and quite contradictory (to previous posts on the matter - which you've made) statement which for the life of me has nothing to do with any given locale in the U.S. be it Chicago or B.F.E. (and furthermore, I never asserted anything regarding relationships between "us Latinos and Gringos" in the bedroom?) :::

"And lastly, as to your assertion that I don't believe Gringos and Latinas should be together, Mario my only answer to that is you are forgetting, I live in Chicago, not in Bosie Idaho, or Cedar Rapids, Iowa, or Casper Wyoming, or Decatur, Illinois, I think us Latinos and Gringos can do really fine together, at work, at play, in the home and yes Mario, believe it or not, in the bedroom too. If a Latina wants to Marry a Gringo, good for him and Her both."

Is that just as long as the Latina is already a U.S. resident? Or does it matter if her residency happens to be abroad?

Funny as it seems, many of us here seem to have had your command leveled at them to "read what I write". Why do you think that is? Is it literary skills at the extent that you posess them?

Stay in law and avoid relationship counseling Marcos. It doesn't suit you all that well.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:11:

cam......lol....I like that post.....most ammusing!! Bonds??? Look, the only bonds I know about is the one that a person has to post to get out of the pokey. As to attorneys....women attorneys in particular, I'll be my ussual reserved self, We work on a professional level as needed, have a drink or two but uh beyond that......we part company.

Cam, I think you got the message. All the warings, bells, and whistles have been sounded. Look, I don't patronize anyone. I could have been like Mario and others who give you the "listen to your heart" nonsense. On the other hand, I would rather you listen to your heart, than listening to other parts of your anatomy--like may men do.

Cam,,,forget the stressor stuff ok......carry on. I think you read what I wrote and read it seriously. You better have, I was late for dinner, and my friends let me know about.

I think you are an ok guy. If you were up here today, I would have bought you the first, and maybe second round. And if you can rise to the occassion, a few shots of Wisers Very Old (18 years aged) Canadian Whiskey would be even more preferable. So consider it a toast in spirit. OK????? Stay in touch....

And again....Best of Luck

cam0940 says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:15:

Rona Congratulations on your happiness in your relationship. The reason some of G5's comments were taken personally was because to an extent they WERE personal, as we have covered some of this in other threads in the past. He even mentioned my name in his analysis today, except that he doesn't know me, my girlfriend, or the nature of our relationship. That's what makes it offensive.

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:22:

LOL "I could have been like Mario and others who give you the "listen to your heart" nonsense. On the other hand, I would rather you listen to your heart, than listening to other parts of your anatomy--like may men do."

Well it's no wonder then; your admitted relationship issues that is.

Very funny though, you say I spoke nonsense and then quoted this very same sentiment.

Too many shots of Wiser's I assume. Ahhhhhh

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:26:

Yeah, he's always doing that, and then in the next breath tries to rise above it.

It's very typical though. Professional character assassins have perfected this in the court of law and it carries over into their personalities.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:37:

Mario....this will be short (believe it or not) Past relationship with Colombiana (had). She decided to stay to run the family business when Father and mother took ill. We talk every other day. Her house is mine and the reverse is true.

Now for the best part. Are you catching Kernow's Syndrome? Or is it that you have become so insecure in your new relationship that it just angers you to no end when I say I don't approve of these relationships. There are exceptions. Some work. Most don't. My opinion...remember Mario,,,,,,,lots and lots of my divorce clients have been these types of relations....papers.....money.....as in dinero...and finally the divorce court. I have had a weeeee bit more experience in this area than you.

Look some work Mario. But as Rona puts it. the G5 tells what he sees and thinks.....like it or not. Like Rona said, you must have your own misgivings to some extent....like I hit a nerve. You should know by now, your attempt to silence me will never work. N E V E R ...so that said, the best thing to do is say: G5, thanks for the advice. And that will just keep my little fingers still. But if you are going to come back and ridicule my opinion, I am going to keep you busy all day, and all night and then you will have to worry about getting one of those arthritic conditions of the wrist...

I just don't take well to personal attacks.

By the way....Hail to my leader GW!!!!

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:42:

Shit....I'm out of Wisers Now what am I going to do. Damn it. I don't even have any more CR special reserve. This will have been my first whiskey in almost a week!! and now,,,nothing!!

This is a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BAQ says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:44:

Oh my Holy God Oh my holy god, we have gone from Engaged to Prostitution to ATTORNEYS !!!!!!!!

Thats what I love about this board, it's kind of like the bad lands of the wild west, Ya just never know what's around the next bend in the road :-) hahahaha

Semper Fidelis !

Gomezman5 says on Sep 7, 2005, 20:56:

Listen BAQ That's what I love about this board too!! Whenever, I say say: "Checkmate", (It's a few extra words to get there)they all go for one of the two jugulars. (Attorney....or my spelling) That is when I know I have once again come out on top.

Anyway, the only thing I have is vodka...Smirnoffs at that. But it's good enough for a bloody Mary, except I'm out of tomato juice...

Look, everyone leave me alone or I'll have to call Mrs. Gomez on all of you. Except Rona and BAQ. BAQ and I seem to be on the same frequency most of the time

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 21:18:

Kernow's Syndrome? Sounds like a personal attack - which I hope he can "take well to".

I happen to be more secure in my new relationship than I ever have in any, thanks for the concern. The only thing irritating, not angering, is that you constantly attempt to impose your negative viewpoints on people who are clearly happy in their respective pursuits. Why can't you leave them alone instead of criticizing? Maybe this speaks to YOUR insecurities and failures? Or is it possibly your "weeee bit more experience" in the dark area of the divorce industry that shapes your wholly negative views, as well as your own disinterst in a commited relationship?

With regard to Rona's remarks, this is a misperception that you naturally, as a shyster will jump all over. What else is new? What Rona missed was the fact that your remarks regarding international relationships are going to be offensive to anyone in a loving and honest international relationship, as it were. Your statements also carry a certain venemous undertone which is quite obvious. Again, this is probably all resulting from your own failures. Beyond that, you've also misquoted Rona - "putting words in the hand".

I've never attempted to "silence" you. Now you're putting words "in my hand", so to speak, and really the best thing to say is: keep your ridiculous advice. Go ahead, keep me busy all you want. It's not that I have any need to ridicule your opinion. Your opinion is ridiculous in and of itself and needs no help in that regard.

I'm not real worried about arthritic conditions of the wrist either, but you on the other hand, or is it the right hand you use most often?

And hail to the brown stuff GW has all over the tip of your nose, it becomes you.

Mario says on Sep 7, 2005, 21:19:

Prostitution, Attorney's... what's the difference?

On top, huh.... when was that, I missed it.

Sidle up to whoever will agree (slightly) with your narrow-minded judgements. That's perfect modus operandi for you. It really fits like a glove, no?

morphus says on Sep 7, 2005, 21:31:

i plan to get married when women start accepting cubic zirconia rings. technically, its a real diamond, just man made. they only cost around $200 and look great :)

utopiacowboy says on Sep 7, 2005, 21:57:

Kat, we did almost the same as you. We have gold wedding bands which my wife bought with each other's name engraved inside. I bought her a little engagement ring earlier.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

nanis says on Sep 8, 2005, 03:07:

I don't think getting engaged is very common in Colombia, we don't have as much money to spend for an engagement party and an engagement ring and all that nonsense you have to go through but don't get me wrong i believe that getting engaged is a very romantic tradition just no practical enough for us colombians i guess well not at least for the poor ones like myself and to be honest i never met anyone in colombia who went through the whole engagement process before.

I got "engaged" because my husband proposed to me (but he never bought me no engagement ring) :( not that i wanted one anyway! so we knew we were gonna get married but we didn't take it as seriously as gringos do i guess we wanted to be comfortable with eachother and although we were "engaged" we still felt young and free like in any boyfriend/girlfriend relationship we weren't in any hurry to feel tied down that was for later when we did get marry..haha

so we then got married, we had two chunky wedding rings made in gold with our names and wedding date engraved inside, his ring had my name and i had his.

and that was it!

att: la gata salvaje ;)

kernow62 says on Sep 8, 2005, 03:30:

Now we're talking morphus, that is my kind of girl. I have a confession, I did do that, well the engagement ring was a CZ. The wedding ring was real and I replaced the engagement ring later when I could afford it, even though my wife said it wasn't important to her. My fiance was only too happy to accept the CZ as she said it was only symbolic. I knew right there and then this girl was a keeper.

G5 Thanks for telling Mario he has Kernow's syndrome, I am glad to hear it is spreading. Viva Kernow's syndrome!!!

Mario says on Sep 8, 2005, 05:09:

I guess that's preferable to Gomez Syndrome. Lucky me!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 05:10:

My husband ask my dad for my My husband asked my dad for my hand in marriage, he then got me my engagement ring, and bought the weddings because I had a jeweller friend and he gave a very good prices for the rings, two for the price of one jejeje. I had a "party La despedida de soltera" Organised by my sister, and they gave me nice pressies :-).My parents paid for the whole wedding things.

engage brain before opening mouth

quindioman says on Sep 8, 2005, 06:06:

damn I finally sussed out how to screw up a good relationship......get engaged...yep. Been engaged twice and I don't think I'm any nearer to the altar...in fact my first serious relationship with a calena in London lasted 5 years....brilliant. I proposed, we got engaged and were finished 7 months later.

cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 08:30:

G5 Love you like a brother Gomez, but Mario's got a point. If you handle divorces, seems it might affect your objectivity towards relationships. Can you comment on that?

I mean, even if the divorce rate for couples of different nationalities were 50%, as is the U.S. average, that means for every horror story you've seen there's a couple that made it. Right? I, personally, have only met maybe 7 or 8 of these couples, but all of them are happy.

Gomezman5 says on Sep 8, 2005, 09:50:

Cam buddy...trust me I don't take my work home. Family law is still a relatively small part of my practice. If the amount of divorces affected me, than those who limited their practice exclusively to Family law, would all be nuts. As a pro., I am able to seperate work from my own day to day life experiences. In other words, my mind is not jaded.

In fact, one day a few years ago, someone asked me what I thought the key was to a successful marraige. I told him .....after a moment or two of thought.......and reflecting upon what I see in divorces:

"Make sure your wife is your BEST friend and not just your wife. Don't marry her because she looks hot. Don't marry her b/c she is good in the sack (although that's nice). I told him think about just how important your best friend. He/she is not just your friend. He is that special person you can confide in, trust with your deep dark secrets (I have none)I mean...just think about it. Makes sense no?

I feel that way because,.... (and this is just another example of my impecable logic)...lovers and wives come and go....but good friends last a life time...not always, but that have a better record of being around for the long term than boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands and wives. No question about it.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 09:52:

Mrs. Gómez, that's exactly how I got married too, in Colombia. No formal engagement just set a date for the wedding and bought the rings with the names and dates engraved inside. As a matter of fact, I don't know anybody who was engaged in Colombia. I've seen an occasional engagement announcement in the newspapers (sociales), but they were always associated with ultra religious, ultra conservative type Opus Dei people. Regular folks just got married.

Obviously Colombians are familiar with the US/European engagement traditions. They do watch TV! It's just not normally anything that concerns them.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 8, 2005, 10:16:

Curious? I'm unclear about this. If there's no "engagement" in Colombia, how does it work that someone asks another person to marry, they agree, and then they plan a wedding? That's all engagement means to me: I asked, she accepted, we're getting married. It also has been a universal pattern everywhere I live.

Or are you just talking about the giving of an engagement ring?

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 10:24:

Hollywood, I'm not overly familiar with the custom in the States and have myself never been engaged, but I had an idea that an engagement is a bit more formal than that. Engagement rings are exchanged (I guess in the States only the fianceé gets a ring), both families are notified and there's usually a small party to celebrate the engagement. In Colombia there may be a priest present to bless the engagement. Here in Scandinavia when people get engaged (very few do at this time and age) there's a small announcement in the local newspaper too. An engagement can be cancelled by just returning the rings.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 10:45:

Well Desi then that explains the confusion. In the States, engaged just means you are promised to be married. It starts from the moment the boyfriend asks the girlfriend if she'll marry him (though technically it could be vice versa, with her asking him). Typically, the ring is a symbol that you've moved beyond the casual relationship and you're getting married. No party necessary. No announcement necessary in the newspaper. All of that is optional. And there is no TIME requirement for the engagement. If I proposed to you, and you said "Sure let's go do it in Vegas this weekend", then we'd be "engaged" for today and tomorrow, up until we took our vows. That's all there is to it. It's just making a commitment to go ahead and get married. Typically the engagement ring will be a solitaire diamond. Size and quality, or whether to have a diamond at all, is optional. At the wedding, he gets a band and she gets a second ring, usually less spectacular so as not to detract from the brilliance of her solitaire, to match her engagement ring.

So even if she's wearing just an engagement ring it communicates to observers that the woman is about to get married. Shes comprometida.

So unless your husband proposed to you actually standing at the altar ready to exchange vows, then you HAVE been engaged. Even if you got married only a day after he asked you.

nanis says on Sep 8, 2005, 10:50:

Desi that's what i thought too. to me getting engaged was about telling eachother's families we were going to get married. nothing more (no party, no ring, no nonsense) sometimes a couple can feel too tied down by the whole getting engaged process and they end up spliting up, it's just too much.. if you are going to get married just go ahead and do it that's what i say!







att: la gata salvaje ;)

BAQ says on Sep 8, 2005, 10:57:

Back to Engagement Ms. Gomez, ya don;t need to have a party to get engaged. Now being a gringo, I realize the cultures are different, that being said, how hard is it to buy some type of ring, doesn;t have to be much, to give to a woman to show your SERIOUS INTENTION of marriage. It's EASY to say "I love you, I want to marry you", anyone can do that and I suspect there are lots of women who have had men tell them that and never follow through with marriage.

I guess where I am going with this is that if a man is SERIOUS, why not spend a few $ to get her an engagement ring. It isn;t money waisted, you can covet it into a weddding ring by adding another band.

For me, proof is in the pudding, or should I say ring. And if a guy can;t afford a few pesos for an engegement ring, how in the hell does he think he can support a wife?

Just my humble opinion

Semper Fidelis !

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 11:10:

cam, Mrs. Gómez, the rings are optional, the announcement inthe newspaper is also optional, even the party can be optional. Notifying both families about the intent of these two people of getting married and having set the date (also customary) is the very essence of the engament, besides the obvious commitment by the two parties. There are no set rules for this here either; each couple handles this as they best see fit, but it's generally thought as a social commitment as well since the two families will be related by marriage for the foreseeable length of time.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 11:23:

OK then we're all on the same page. After your last post, I no longer understand the concerns in the original question. I guess the only difference between the States and CO would be that we typically do give a ring, but the ring is not what makes the engagement. It's just a symbol.

In a perfect world, the two families would understand that they will be related by marriage. As such, you'd think there would be some reaching out to one another. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing that. Her family is taking me in with open arms and mine is very stand offish, except my Dad and my younger sister.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 11:38:

yes, cam but the original concern was about the fact that most Colombians are not even aware of the social implications of a formal engagement. What I described in my previous post is the Scandinavian angle on engagement. When I told my parents that I was getting married the first question was "when did you get engaged? How come we weren't informed?"

Since I understand how important engagement and the diamond ring is to you gringos (she'll wear it in token that she's spoken for) and how unusual this custom is in Colombia I became concerned if the fiancée in Colombia really understood the seriusness of this commitment. Obviously, as you describe your case, cam, yours is totally aware of the compromiso she has made but there may be other girls who wear a gringo diamond and don't really think about it as being that binding.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 14:23:

I agree with Mr Hollywood, when my husband gave me the engagement ring that was a sign of commitment to each othe,. Well that was how my parents did it and his parents, so I follow their traditions.
That was me and don't know the rest of the Colombianas.

engage brain before opening mouth

adrimm says on Sep 8, 2005, 16:22:

Bizarre? Hmm I don't know too many platonic friends who kiss and hold hands here. Even friends with benefits tend skip that hand-holding (in public) part.

tomtom33 says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:00:

"... the engagement process is when you sleep together." You have to make sure that they will accept money before you do the deed.

CaryGrant says on Sep 8, 2005, 18:11:

Morphus: "i plan to get married when women start accepting cubic zirconia rings."

I proposed to my fiancee, then she asked me to repeat all that I had said in front of her mother (father is dead), as that is the 'traditional' way her family did things, anyway.

I asked if she wanted a ring; she said yes, and picked out a lovely cubic zirconia. (I asked her later why it was so inexpensive - a diamond that size would have cost a fortune up north. That's when she explained it was CZ, and confirmed, yet again, that this girl is a keeper.) She has been using it to fend off suitors ever since.

I get the impression that engagement is not taken very seriously by Colombian women, possibly because lots of Colombian guys (and foreign ones, no doubt) have said and promised pretty much anything to get Colombianas into bed.

tomtom33 says on Sep 8, 2005, 18:17:

CG "...promised pretty much anything to get Colombianas into bed."

I am certainly not saying that Colombianas are easy, but you don't really have to promise that much.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 9, 2005, 04:33:

Agree with you adrimm bizarre?
One word of advice GIB just stop kissing your friends. :-)

engage brain before opening mouth

morphus says on Sep 9, 2005, 07:34:

Carygrant, i meant it for the women here in the U.S. i'm sure i can get away with a cubic zirconia in Colombia. i don't think i would ever do the foreign bride thing though. maybe, if i was really ugly or deformed and sitting in a wheelchair.

CaryGrant says on Sep 9, 2005, 15:44:

Morphus I agree with you on foolish Canadian/American women wanting a symbol worth thousands. but your second comment about the foreign bride thing makes me question your experience in life.

Mario says on Sep 9, 2005, 20:20:

In other words... Passing judgement like some idiotic people here is not par for the Libertarian course.

adrimm says on Sep 9, 2005, 20:47:

tomtom3 Gee tomtom

Now we know what kind of person you are, lovely.

adrimm says on Sep 9, 2005, 20:50:

Also, not all north american women expect a billion dollar rock. I'd say alot are quite sensible and might appreciate a mortgage-approved letter from the bank shown on bended knee with a wedding proposal.

But how many of you Romeos would actually try it, hmm?

morphus says on Sep 10, 2005, 07:00:

CaryGrant "I agree with you on foolish Canadian/American women wanting a symbol worth thousands. but your second comment about the foreign bride thing makes me question your experience in life"

experience with foreign women? plenty of that here.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 10, 2005, 11:45:

So, Morphus, if you were sitting in a wheelchair in your own piss and shit, then you would consider marrying a Colombiana?

Nobody in Colombia pays the slightest attention to rings as symbols of anything regarding comittment. It doesn't matter whether a chick's got an engagement ring or even a wedding ring. It's open season.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

morphus says on Sep 10, 2005, 11:56:

yes i would need somebody to push me in the wheelchair...lol.

morphus says on Sep 10, 2005, 12:03:

i'm not marriage minded. i know i could never be monogamous. its just not in my genes. if i was married to the hottest chick, i would still end up cheating at some point. to me, women are like food. i want variety.