PBH / colombia (active forums more▼ | travelguide | pictures) / post

ELN admits to accidently murdering two priests and two civilians

Because of errors in "intelligence and calculation".

Apparently the ELN will discipline those responsible in any unspecified manner (hope they don't simply execute them, nor just make them do some hard community labor, like the FARC did in the case of the murder of three U.S. native american rights activists a while back)

The Catholic Church has said that it forgives the ELN and will continue to maintain contacts with it in the search for peace.

Agosto 20 de 2005
Iglesia Católica seguirá contactos y perdona al Eln tras el asesinato de sacerdotes

El presidente de la Conferencia Episcopal habló luego de que el grupo guerrillero reconociera su responsabilidad en el crimen de los prelados.

"En lo que a la Iglesia se refiere nosotros perdonamos al Eln por lo que se ha hecho (...) Evidentemente seguiremos dialogando con ellos, y con todos los grupos armados, para buscar la paz", dijo monseñor Luis Augusto Castro.

"Las relaciones con el Eln han estado encaminadas a facilitar el paso del Eln a la solución negociada y vamos a seguir manteniendo esos canales porque el Eln ha dicho que fue un error. Nosotros aceptamos seguir esas relaciones porque la guerra sigue", añadió el jerarca católico.

La tarde del viernes, el Eln se responsabilizó y pidió perdón por eñ crimen de los sacerdotes Jesús Emilio Mora y Vicente Rosso, ocurrido el 15 de agosto en la vía Teorema-Convención. En el hecho, también murieron los civiles José Carrascal Carrascal y Edgar Vergel.

Inicialmente, las autoridades responsabilizaron de esta acción a las Farc. Según el comandante de la Policía departamental, coronel José Humberto Henao Castaño, los guerrilleros atacaron el vehículo en que se movilizaban los sacerdotes con ráfagas de fusil en el sitio El Diviso, a 20 minutos de Teorema.

Pero, a través de un comunicado, el Frente de Guerra Nororiental, del Eln pidió perdón a los familiares y dijo que lamenta "con profundo dolor la muerte accidental de los sacerdotes".

Esa facción del Eln admitió que las muertes fueron producidas por sus propias unidades guerrilleras y atribuyó el hecho a "un error de inteligencia y cálculo, facilitado por las características propias del conflicto en la zona".

"Nos hacemos partícipes del dolor y la tristeza, nos solidarizamos moral y espiritualmente por tan grave hecho", dice un aparte del comunicado.

Agrega el Eln que la Iglesia jamás ha sido un objetivo militar y que siguen viendo a esa institución como un puente de facilitación en la búsqueda de una solución política al conflicto armado.

El Frente de Guerra Nororiental del Eln no da nombres ni menciona una eventual entrega de los responsables a la justicia, pero señala que "este hecho no quedará impune" y que tomarán las medidas necesarias de su propio "código de guerra y ética humanista".

Vicente Rozo Bayona, de 49 años, era el sacerdote de la parroquia San José y Ramón Emilio Mora, de 60, de la iglesia El Monte Carmelo, las dos únicas parroquias de la Iglesia en Convención.

Para hoy en la mañana se espera un pronunciamiento del Comando Central del Eln, que en su momento tuvo como máximo dirigente al sacerdote español Manuel Pérez, y en sus comienzos, en la década del 60, al cura Camilo Torres, uno de sus más emblemáticos militantes. Los dos, Pérez y Torres, son mencionados en el comunicado con el afán de demostrar la cercanía y el respeto de ese grupo guerrillero con la Iglesia.

En la mira

En los últimos días, la Iglesia Católica ha sido blanco de ataques por parte de grupos armados ilegales, o por tener vínculos con estos.

El jueves pasado, el padre Jesús Adrián Sánchez, párroco de Chaparral (Tolima), fue asesinado por un hombre, al parecer de las Farc, quien lo obligó a salir de las instalaciones del colegio Camacho Angarita y luego le disparó.

De otra parte, el párrodo de Uribe (Meta), el español Ricardo Cantalapiedra fue acusado de colaborar con la guerrilla de las Farc.

Con AFP

http://eltiempo.terra.com.co/coar/ACC_MILITARES/accionesarmadas/ARTICULO-WEB-_NOTA_INTERIOR-2191228.html

By juancegomez on Aug 20, 2005, 11:09 in Politics & the war.

Colombiche says on Aug 20, 2005, 11:16:

Accidentally murdering two priests? Oops sorry father, I was just cleaning my piece, que pena padrecito, se me disparo esta vaina.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 20, 2005, 21:36:

ELN should rightly be condemned for this atrocity... Everyone (even on PBH) was mighty quick to blame the FARC for this. Don't imagine anyone will be issuing any apologies to the FARC.

When it happens to be the Colombian Army or Colombian Air Force that kills innocents, often instead of owning up to it and saying it was an out of control unit, they will plant weapons beside the dead (they have even done this with dead kids and the photos are published in the paper) and claim they have just killed more of the the guerrilla "insurgents". Or they blame the FARC and everyone simply believes the anti-FARC propaganda. Then, if it doesn't remain "impune" and there is an official investigation, months later someone may be charged after the truth is uncovered. But the first impulse is to blame it on the FARC.

The use of deception and false accusation is counter-productive, destroys government credibility, and only helps FARC recruitment.

Plátano, comandante del Frente PBH (según Hunter)
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juancegomez says on Aug 21, 2005, 11:32:

Keep in mind that If there was information that a guerrilla group killed the two priests and two civilians that were travelling on a road, then to name either the FARC or the ELN was not misinformation, but just a guess based on the little information available.

It can't be a fully confirmed statement, but just what was known or suspected until that point. It wasn't the last word.

With respect to violations committed by the state and the armed forces, guesses can also be made. But they aren't the last word either.

Each case has its own complications. Sometimes you blame a guerrilla group, and the guilty party was another. Sometimes you blame a paramilitary group, and the guilty party was someone in the armed forces. Sometimes you blame somebody in the armed forces, and the guilty party was a paramilitary group. Sometimes you blame the FARC, but the paramilitary groups are guilty. Sometimes you blame the paramilitary groups or the armed forces, but the FARC/ELN are guilty. Etc. etc.

Do you hear apologies everytime these things are resolved? Of course not.

An accusation, by itself, can be considered legitimate with respect to the amount of information known at the time, but it can't be seen as the absolute truth. Nor automatically as misinformation. Sometimes it will be, but others times it's just going to be a mistake. But it might also be true, it depends on the case.

As for planting evidence and claiming that their enemies were legitimate targets, that happens, but the guerrillas are equally, if not more, guilty of doing that when it suits them. Do you remember the 34 cocaleros that the FARC accused of being "paramilitaries"? Did the FARC "apologize" for that?

Or remember the guerrillas that have been executed by the FARC because they considered them "traitors", even with no real proof? Or civilians that have also been victims of such considerations? There's a long list of things to mention there.

Obviously, both the paramilitaries and the armed forces have also done things of such nature. That's logical.

But still, don't try to make it seem like the guerrillas have a better record or that they deserve special apologies, because they don't.

In fact, since they are subject to no official inquiries at all and practically never cooperate or allow any investigations to proceed, because they are illegal actors outside the law and with no responsibilities and no respect for almost any treaty, they might deserve even less considerations than any official personnel (because whether you like it or not, the state does at least try to accept its responsibilities and has to submit itself to decisions from justices, even if it doesn't always do so willingly).

Also keep in mind, platano, that it seems that the FARC *did* kill *another* priest that same week, a priest that was specifically preaching against guerrilla recruitment, and this was not something done "accidently". Hence that's another piece of circumstancial evidence that made it a legitimate guess, but just as a guess.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 21, 2005, 15:42:

Platano always has a double standard, one for the Colombian government and their US backers and one for his buds in the ELN/FARC. You sound like a victim of the same syndrome that nailed Patty Hearst.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 21, 2005, 16:11:

Apologies "Everyone (even on PBH) was mighty quick to blame the FARC for this. Don't imagine anyone will be issuing any apologies to the FARC."

We were counting on you to do that for us.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Michael B says on Aug 21, 2005, 20:06:

1) How do you 'accidently' murder two people? If the death is an accident isn't the crime manslaughter?

2) I'm sure the people being killed don't care if they are killed by FARC, ELN, AUC, Regular Army or little green men from Mars....I think given their preferences, they'd perfer to not be killed at all.

Reminds me a a scene in Dr. Zivago where Trotsky (or was it Lennin?) comes into a burned village full of mutalated corpses:
Trotsky: Who did this?
Old Woman: Soldiers.
Trotsky: RED soldiers? or WHITE soldiers?
Old Woman: Soldiers.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 21, 2005, 21:04:

Although you may think it absurd to apologize to the FARC... it might be a way of showing some concern for truth, establishing some level of government credibility, beginning to establish trust, and perhaps paving the way for future negotiations for peace. It would model proper behavior for the FARC, as ELN has done after this criminal incident.

ELN is accepting responsibility (instead of engaging in denial or coverup), they are promising to take remedial/disciplinary action, and offered an apology. I applaud the Catholic Church for forgiving ELN. All the violent actors need to learn from the Church.

If each side refuses to engage in any kind of civil behavior toward the other, we can look forward to years more of uncivilized internal conflict.

Plátano

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Aug 22, 2005, 05:00:

Maybe they can celebrate peace by the golden anniversary of war. Uribe or Carolina Barco said there will probably be at least another five or six years of war.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 22, 2005, 07:37:

Uribe will be the greatest President in Colombian history... by achieving peace with both AUC and FARC during his administrations. Uribe wants to achieve peace and he wants to do it through talking, not shooting, as the following Caracol report indicates:

excerpt from report: "Government opens doors to talks with FARC on humanitarian agreement", published by Colombian Caracol radio website on 27 July 2005

The government has stressed that it is willing to meet the FARC [Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia] immediately, wherever the guerrillas want and under the conditions they propose, to discuss a humanitarian agreement.The high commissioner for peace, Luis Carlos Restrepo, said that the government is willing to allow the FARC to decide the place and date of talks that would lead to the release of the hostages.

"I have instructions from the president to meet the FARC in a place of their choice, on the date and at the time they establish, under the security conditions that give them confidence, with national or international support, as decided by them", Restrepo said.

FARC is the problem because they still believe in shooting. (3,000 years of human history demonstrates perpetual war does not create a peaceful world.) As soon as everyone stops the uncivilized behavior of shooting at each other, warfare in Colombia will become a thing of the past, and I predict it will happen long before the Golden Anniversary, thanks to Uribe's openness to negotiations. Others have tried, I know. But the time is ripe now, and Uribe is the man of the hour.

Plátano, el bobo simplón, still praying for peace. ¡Qué Dios me oiga!
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Aug 22, 2005, 08:57:

Well I sure hope you are right... that Colombia will see peace before the "golden anniversary" as you call it.

I don't believe however that any apologies should be extended to the FARC or to any illegal group whatsoever. If the FARC were falsely accused of murdering two priests and it turns out it wasn't them, tough luck, the only reason they are being accused is because they have murdered, raped and pillaged before. If they were a bunch of "mansas palomitas" nobody would even have pointed the finger at them.

The Colombian State has to maintain its dignity and establish its leadership. Apologizing to an armed group that kills its own brothers and sisters and forcefully recruits little Colombian boys and girls is just not right in my point of view. If I was in Uribe's shoes, I would rather take a bullet and die with dignity than apologize to the FARC.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Aug 22, 2005, 09:00:

I hope for dialog and peaceful disarmement... but I hope Uribe is not going to start doing like Pastrana.... putting on the scuba gear to go meet Tirofijo underwater "because Tirofijo said he wanted to meet underwater". That is just ridiculous. I think Colombia needs a father figure. Uribe is not doing such a bad job of filling those shoes.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 22, 2005, 12:27:

Colombiche, are you wavering? Never doubt Uribe... Never doubt the ability of paisas to do whatever they set their minds to do. Uribe is capable of doing what no one in the history of Colombia has done. I have no trouble imagining a Colombia that is convivial, at peace, without internal strife, without war. And Uribe can make it happen. To use your words, if Colombia needs a father figure, Uribe es su papá.

P.D. It was Tinto who first used the "golden anniversary" metaphor.

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Aug 22, 2005, 23:33:

FARC or ELN When peopled blamed the FARC, they probably also meant the ELN. To many people they are basically the same thing. They are both left leaning terrosit organisation.

It is now approx a week since the killings, I have yet to see any news stories in English from the left leaning press mentioning them, yet when they suspect it is the AUC (a right leaning terrosit orrganisation) or the military/Police, there are normally a tonne of articles.

As normal the left leaning press don't mention it, if people are getting their news soley from them, no wonder they have a slanted view of Colombians problems.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 22, 2005, 23:51:

There have been 86 news stories about ELN and the priests.... all in English and many from left-leaning publications. The left-wing has been all over this story. Here are some publications and the dates they ran their stories:

San Jose Mercury News, United States - Aug 21, 2005

Los Angeles Times, CA - Aug 21, 2005

Guardian Unlimited, UK - Aug 20, 2005

Reuters AlertNet, UK - Aug 20, 2005

Contra Costa Times, CA - Aug 20, 2005

Miami Herald, FL - Aug 20, 2005

People's Daily Online, China - Aug 20, 2005
EVEN BUSH'S FRIENDS, THE CHINESE COMMUNISTS, ARE REPORTING IT!

CNN International - Aug 20, 2005

Peninsula On-line, Qatar - Aug 20, 2005

Mid Columbia Tri City Herald, WA - Aug 20, 2005

etc., etc., etc. for 86 stories.

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Aug 23, 2005, 00:07:

The Guardian I choose my least favourite newspaper the guardian, I could find no mention of the ELN murdering 3 priests, can you give me a link Platano?

If you go back to previouse atrocities, some done by the AUC or military, or they were blamed from them, you will find far more news articles mentioning them by left leaning news agencys than when their compatriots in the FARC or ELN do them.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 23, 2005, 00:09:

And besides the left-leaning press many people consider... the public broadcasting system (PBS) to be left-leaning, and the BBC to be left-leaning, and human rights organizations to be left-leaning, and relief organizations to be left-leaning. All of them have reported the story of the ELN killing the priests many of them in a very critical manner. Why? Because they aren't left-leaning at all. They are fair and balanced.

PBS Online NewsHour -- Colombia's Civil War: ELN

ReliefWeb » Document Preview » Colombia rebels shoot two priests ...
Catholic priests Emilio Mora and Vicente Bayona stopped their vehicle after a

BBC News | AMERICAS | Colombia's rebel kidnappers
... The ELN rebels are the biggest kidnappers in Colombia and took over 800 ...

Plátano, el bobo simplón
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 23, 2005, 00:13:

I hate to dirty PBH with a citation to such a commie rag but... here is the link to the Guardian about the killing of the priests by ELN:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5223625,00.html

Now I am going to go wash my hands with hospital strength anti-bacterial soap.

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Aug 23, 2005, 07:15:

platano Yes definetly wash your hands after handling the Guardian newspaper.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cali373 says on Aug 23, 2005, 07:53:

A mistake my A$$. And I think that the people at fault should be executed or definately hard labor. I do not see how that helps their cause. ALWAYS blaming the FARC and ELN IS misinformation because their are many ruthless drug and mob style extortionist gangs and the AUC that commit countless murders. The AUC has killed clergymen, they just don't get the same media coverage when it happens.

Smile if you are a thinker!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juancegomez says on Aug 23, 2005, 14:23:

Sadly, Fox News isn't really too fair and balanced and neither are most liberal/leftwing news outlets/channels/papers either...

The BBC, though once extremely respected worldwide, now has rather uneven reporting and researching quality. Not just regarding Colombian news, but worldwide news as well.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

cali373 says on Aug 24, 2005, 09:51:

Are the London Times and Telegraph any better?

Smile if you are a thinker!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

protocol13 says on Aug 29, 2005, 12:05:

Slanted newmedia like the LA Times usually report these type of article in the back pages of the newspaper. I recalled that incident in Arauca in which the Colombian Army was involved in which peasants where killed, it was not only frontline news, but, they had an investigative reporter provide a three page article. The article on the priests's murders by the ELN was no front page news , it was rather a small article, back page news. If it is an attrocity by the left terrorists, it may be reported, but, usually an abbreviated article and/or in the backand I mean back pages of the paper.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Aug 29, 2005, 12:16:

Protocol I know! Those damn pinkos have all the power in the media, just look at the guy who got shot by the London police, geez, what a scandal, just because a completely innocent guy got shot by law enforcement, oh, but had he been shot by a criminal, nobody would've said anything.

Damn commies. We should have the same standards for governments and for criminal organizations. Damn right!

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

protocol13 says on Aug 29, 2005, 15:21:

Sr Tertious Your sacasm is idiotic. Try another.
The Brazilian been shot by the English police was an unfortunate mistake, which, the same can not be said about what Castro has done to his political prisoners or Pot Pol or Mao or Stalin.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Aug 29, 2005, 16:32:

Standards If my sarcasm is idiotic is only because it clearly didn't get the point through. Governments and illegal organizations operate under very different standards, and should be scrutinized by the media using different standards. I hope that makes it clearer.

BTW, where is that slanted commie-loving media when the US is involved in atrocities such as Nicaragua or Panama? and where is it when the world, in its most important forum, condemns it? In the case of Panama, only CBS reported the UN declaration in a 10 sec segment.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hunter says on Sep 8, 2005, 12:42:

cali373 I haven't read the British Times for a while, they wern't to bad before, the British Daily Telegraph, used to be to militaristic, again I haven't read that one for a while.

I swithched to the Financial Times over a decade ago, it seems to give the least biest news and has a lot of foreign news in it.

Hunter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

protocol13 says on Sep 22, 2005, 00:18:

Some of the posters' s opinions remind me of how ridiculously slanted their opinions are. When it comes to the US it is the worst of all attrocities. Like the Arab news media that thinks that making prisoners stand naked is the worst of all attrocities, even a thousand times worst than beheading civilians or planting bombs in a crowded theater like in Moscow or crashing planes against buildings or using suicide bombers in buses full of children nd/or civilians in Israel or planting a bomb in a synagoge in Buenos Aires or.....

0 funny, 0 helpful.