El norte del Valle del Cauca

utopiacowboy says on Oct 30, 2006, 22:17:

Good heavens, no. Mentiras.
Good heavens, no. Mentiras.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Crazy4Cali says on Oct 31, 2006, 09:00:

Check the date. Often times people report things that happened 5-10 years ago as "news" (i.e. news to them).

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 31, 2006, 09:15:

the towns in the north of Valle suffer from the legacy of the Violencia period when murdering gangs went rampant over the whole landscape raping, asassinating and burning people who supported The Liberal Party. These towns have never been totally pacified after that; under the quiet surface there are much of the old hatred and resentment that contributes to criminality and rallying around strong leaders.

The leader of the Pajaros was León María Lozano and the whole north of Valle still remembers how nobody lived or died in that town (Tuluá) without his permission. There was an article conmemorating the 50 years of the death of El Condor recently in El Pais of Cali. Read Alvarez Gardeazabal's book "Condores No Entierran Todos Los Dias" to get a glimpse of the violence on the towns of Norte del Valle.

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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julioincendio says on Nov 2, 2006, 08:03:

update from Zarzal I´m in Zarzal for a while, and I can tell you there was 1 murder about 2 weeks ago - a moto drive-by at a garage on the High St - which my amigos tell me was part of a current war between two big narcos. He was an old friend of my friends (although he was only in his teens/early twenties). It was the first killing for a long time, but I´m told that things are quite tense right now, with a supposed list of people still "To Be Dealt With" (some of whom have already left town). Maybe it´s my gringo naivete, but Zarzal (and the towns around us) feel as safe as ever for people who have nothing to do with the narcos.

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billyb says on Nov 2, 2006, 09:03:

There has been an ongoing... drug war in the north valley between the "machos" who work for alias "Jabon" and the gang working for alias "Don Diego" for control of The North valley cartel. And before that as Desi said, there is the lagacy of the Pajaros. El Condor saved my father's life once, Desi do you happen to remember the date of the article?

BillyB

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 2, 2006, 09:16:

found it, billy http://www.elpais.com.co/paisonline/notas/Octubre222006/histo.html

I've edited my previous post concerning El Condor since there were a couple of obvious inaccuracies in it. The chief of the Pajaros died 50 years ago.

Cheers,
Desi


«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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billyb says on Nov 2, 2006, 09:18:

Thanks Desi. BillyB

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LDW says on Nov 5, 2006, 10:16:

Thanks Billy My sense of things was that those reports probably related to narco turf wars, and would pose little or no threat to those who are not involved. I have been to Zarzal many times and have always felt safe there. I have also felt safe in many of the nearby towns and cities (La Union, Roldanillo, Bolivar, Tulua, etc., ......maybe I am naive about what may be really going on there). However, in July, I was in Palmira, and the day I flew out I saw in the paper (after I had boarded the plane) that 6 police officers were killed the night before (apparently by the FARC). I love the area and the people, and have no wish to be involved in any local business, nor do I wish to have a political stance about anything. I am not going to change the world. I just want to collect my pension, eat fresh pineapple oranges and papaya every day, and not have to deal with any more Canadian winters.

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poco says on Nov 5, 2006, 17:24:

What is a long time ? It was the first killing for a long time,

Seems it was february 2005,, maybe 2004 (time flies when you're having fun) the body count was around 2,000 over a 3 to 6 month period in the Northern part.

That being said,, I feel perfectly safe living there as long as no one knows where I'm located, where I'm going, how long I'll stay or where I live when I'm gone and no one is sure when that is.

I'm starting my 2006 project. This is the raw material. Never guess what I'm having built.



PS: They kill folks in Colombia all the time, I'd say 90% deserve it,, Colombia is not the place to be stupid. Anyone who believes they might be stupid,, stay in the nicer area of the cities.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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billyb says on Nov 5, 2006, 18:16:

Poco, new flooring for and old farmhouse? BillyB

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goin_south says on Nov 5, 2006, 18:30:

your coffin? just joking, Poco.


LDW, I think this past year, I am not so sure about La Union. That is another place my gf frequents for business, and she must 'watch her p's and q's there.

But, then I also believe I have seen two 'La Union's on the map of Colombia,...and in actuality, they are not even so very far apart in distance. Like Florida; there must be 10 of them in Colombia. Not unlike the usa.

"Tengo mucha compasión para el loro."

Colombia es

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litost says on Nov 6, 2006, 06:39:

My cousin was killed in Santa Rosa de Cabal a few years ago by some guys from Cartago... I'm not going to say he deserved it, but he gave way too much papaya, he and his group of friends would always be picking fights when partying and carelessly hitting on girls with boyfriends. Do NOT do this anywhere in Colombia, and particularly not in areas with lots of drug mafia activity like the Norte del Valle.

He was followed when going back home late after partying, and shot dead half a block from his doorstep. He managed to walk to his house but died in his brother's arms... the girl who was with him in the car (and who had provoked the fight in the night club) was shot also but miraculously survived. Apparently the guys were the bodyguards and/or sicarios of some "duro" from the Norte del Valle. Don't know if the girl finally decided to testify against them... still haunts my mind that whole story, he was my age. RIP.

But besides that, I agree, if you aren't stupid enough to be involved in drug trafficking or picking up others' girlfriends, it's a safe region as any other in Colombia.

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litost says on Nov 6, 2006, 06:49:

Just to clarify, Santa Rosa de Cabal is not in the Norte del Valle, it is in Risaralda between Pereira and Manizales but only about an hour away from Cartago. Much safer than the Norte del Valle, declared a few years ago one of the 5 most peaceful towns in Colombia by Diners Magazine.

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poco says on Nov 6, 2006, 15:44:

A little larger project your coffin?

No, this years project is not a coffin,, but that is not a bad guess. A coffin would be made from less expensive woods,, woods that rot quickly. They dig you up in two years or so,, break up your bones and place your sawed up bones in, literally “a hole in the wall�. How’s that for a resume,, experienced with digging up dead people,, etc, etc.

The project is fabricated from two species of wood,, Nogal (photo below) and Cedro (photo above)



Both types of wood are common in Colombia and comparatively inexpensive. Nogal is hard and has a really nice grain pattern.

I have three other projects,, one requires I search Pereira tomorrow for rebar doweling epoxy,, it should be in Colombia somewhere, finding things is half the fun.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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litost says on Nov 7, 2006, 01:13:

Roofus, thanks I also think Santa Rosa is one of the most pleasant places one could imagine... great people, weather, landscape, safety, nearby cities. I feel very fortunate to have lived a part of my youth there and will most definately end up retiring there sometime or another (still a longs way for me, 26). When your time comes to retire and if you still consider Santa Rosa, let me know I can give you some tips and contacts from a native's perspective.

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