El cantante

corazon en colombia says on Jul 6, 2006, 18:29:

Assimilation? I think most people adapt and learn from the culture they are in, but to become part of the culture 100% is rare if you grew up in another one. Most people marry someone from another country because they are different, not because they want them to become like their own. I'm not sure what your confusion is...do you want her to become more american? Or are you just marvelling at the fact she is so unique? Can you explain a little more?

Colombia = paradiso

Colombia = paradiso

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Wastelandlive says on Jul 6, 2006, 18:37:

The Moral of the Story? Don't be an ass. If she's not into you, move on.

Wasteland

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oldbongo says on Jul 7, 2006, 10:37:

sounds familiar cowboy... remember?...the time of the cholera...gabi m.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 7, 2006, 14:43:

You're right, OG. I think her whole freaking life is right out of Gabi M.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:25:

That sounds crazy to me Sounds like the opening scene from "the Barber of Seville" except for the heroine in this case is frigid! I want less and less to visit Antioquia the more I hear about it. Are people really that atrasado there???? Jesus Fucking H Christ on a Pogo Stick!

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:38:

That's the most amusing part, Rubiazo. With her husband she is anything but frigid. It's all about appearances and respectability.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:38:

"El Cantante" ? There is (was) only one His name was was....one of the greatest salsero in history, and that is of course, Hector Lavoe. "El Cantante" was one of his most famous songs, and the words were written by another great salser, one of Hector Lavoe's mentors, Willie Colon

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:39:

I can always count on you, G5. I don't care what they say. Eres el hombre!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:50:

UC I think G5 is at the airport and he missed his bus again :)

Man, what a fucked up world this is where not having sex is seen as a good thing! We really do have our collective head up our colletive ass at times don't we?

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:54:

Back in the day, among a certain strata of Colombian society, it was important to preserve the virginity of your daughters. My wife is kind of a throwback to an earlier time. I wonder how many, if any, of these old customs have been preserved?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 8, 2006, 21:59:

Hopefully NONE Just hearing that kinda shit is vomit in my mouth. It makes me long for the days when the Romans knew what to do with the Jesus crowd :))
Valuing a woman for her virginity is not only stupid and illogical in many levels, it demeans women and devalues them completely!

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 8, 2006, 22:01:

You may be right, Rubiazo. Hey in spite of everything, the old girl knows what to do in the sack. Que mamacita.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2006, 02:30:

in my Mum's day was like that, somebody had to be in the sitting room with the couple, how boring, my dad was quite stricted with us too but not to the point of sitting with us in the sitting room looking after us, but we always found our way, remembered were there is a will there is a way ;)

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 9, 2006, 15:10:

UC....thanks for your support ! And Rubiazo........ I may have missed the bus again, but that is because the buses never seem to run on time. They come early, and leave early. You on the other hand, keep getting on the wrong bus period. That being the case, you have nobody else to blame but yourself.

Rubi, when will you learn, when ever you think you have a comment to make, you can be sure that I'll always retutn the favor by having one especially for you too.....

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Rubiazo says on Jul 9, 2006, 21:47:

I'm not on the wrong bus if it takes me somewhere I want to go :)

and BTW did you realize that NEITHER of the two founders of Fania were NOT Boricuas, nor were many of their artists, e.g. Larry Harlowe, Ruben Blades, Celia Cruz, a good third of the Fania All-Stars were not Puerto Rican!

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 9, 2006, 22:36:

So what's your point Rubi? There is none apparently.

Larry "Harlowe" (it is Harlow, by the way) is as American as Apple Pie.
He is also Jewish....and not a founder or cofounder

Ruben Blades, Panamanian---also not a founder or co-founder
Celia,,,,every numb nut knows she was Cuban. Celia Cruz had NOTHING to do with the foudning of the Fania All Stars. She certainly was under contract as a singer performer, but she was NOT a founder or co-founder.She did however get signed as a performer at about the same time they signed Ray Barreto (Another Boricua BTW)

The main players that were founders you did not even mention.The principal founder was Johnny Pacheco, who was a Dominican. He was also the music director.

As money became a problem, an investor, and non performer became the co-founder, and succeeding owner to all rights. He was a NON Latino, but was in fact an Italian.....Jerry Masucci. He later became known as the founder, only because he came on the scene fairly quickly after it was clear that Fania would not survive long without Masucci's financial assistance. Masucci owned Fania records all by himself

As to your assertion that "a third" were not boricua.You are wrong......way wrong. You only mentioned a few people, there were so many others that were in fact Puerto Ricans. What you also fail to realize that within the groups, the performers themselves, in the instrumentals, percussion, and chorus, again, almost all were Puerto Ricans. In fact, post Fania, and to some extent while with Fania, you had great performers like, Bobby Valentin, and Roberto Roena, that are in a class all by themselves. My point is they got their start as performers within the Fania organization. And let me tell you man, you have not heard salsa until you have hear Bobby Valentin. The same can be said of Pete "el conde" Rodriguez. You want to hear salsa...check out those guys.

Finally, think about this. There were two Jews that were members of the Fania All Stars. But NOT one Colombian was a member.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 9, 2006, 23:12:

The two founders To which I was referring in my post were Pacheco and Masucci.

ALSO many of Fania's stars, like Colón were NYC born and bred and were English dominant (although he is fluently bilingual).

One trumpet player and one tombone player were non-Hispanic in the All-Stars. If you add in Pacheco and Harlowe there's your third!

My point is, I don't get your assertion that salsa is a Puerto Rican thing when with only a few exceptions it was all made right here in NYC, NOT in Puerto Rico. That makes it a NY thing in my book, and as you obviously know on SOME level, non-Boricuas were in on it from jump!

To make an analogy, samba in Brazil is generally made by people with African blood in them and obviously has roots in Africa, but samba is NOT African music!!!

Obviously there were no Colombians in the Fania all-stars, they were just starting to come to NYC in number by the time Fania was starting to wane! The Cali thing came along in the 80s, and IMO was superior to the shit NYC started cranking out at that time, because everybody got on that retarded romantic salsa trip here.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 10, 2006, 16:42:

Rubi You are wrong....You just don't know what you are talking about. The word "Salsa" was created in New York, but the earliest forms of the music is from Puerto Rico. Look, do you think that the key salsa artists did not learn the music until they got off the plane in New York? Is that what you are saying? By the time they arrived in New York, they were adults and they were already playing salsa in Puerto Rico. Take for example Ismael Rivera, "El sonero Mayor" (aka Maelo), he was born in 1931, what the hell do you think he was playing throughout his youth and adulthood? He was playing salsa long before it was called Salsa.

In any event, the music was born in New York because that is where most of the country's Puerto Ricans happened to live. With minor exceptions, most of the Puerto Rican were born in Puerto Rico and they learned all of their music artistry there. Bottom line, if these Puerto Ricans had not gone to New York, there would not have been any Salsa......starting to get it Rubiazo.

Rubiazo......you pretend to know a lot about a lot of things, but your knowledge of salsa is ......not impressive

And stop the lame lies, if you were referring to Pacheco and Mascussi, you would have said as such. You want proof? When you mentioned co-founders, you mentioned the name of people, and referred to them as founders when in fact they were not. (Harlow...whose name you spelled wrong) and Celia Cruz.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 10, 2006, 19:49:

He was playing SON CUBANO Why the fuck do you think they called him "EL SONERO" anyways? Nobody called it 'salsa' until the late 60's and it was a term specifically coined to adress the innovations by Fania. In the 60s everybody was basically playing Cuban music until the salsa came along. Puerto Ricans had their own African-influcend music, such as bomba and plena, and then they had musica jibara, but none of these had anything else to do with salsa. There are some bomba and plena tracks on Fania however. A good example would be "Chiviriquitón", which is a plena.

Once again, if they hadn't brought over millions of African slaves to Brazil, there would be no samba baiao axe etc. but that doesn't change aa thing, it's NOT AFRICAN MUSIC, it's an entirely new set of phenomena!! Salsa was NOT created in Puerto Rico, it was created RIGHT HERE IN NYC!

There were only two 'founders' of Fania, the rest of the artists were simply artists on the roster. Pacheco and Masucci owned the company. Only you would be dense enough to insist that I was trying to say Celia Cruz was a founder of the record company!!

And most of the 'key salsa artists' were second or evern third generation and had NO plane to get off of whatsoever. They were born HERE, many of them learned Spanish AFTER they learned English, specifically so they could sing Salsa. Valentin and Pete Rodriguez were both born in Puerto Rico, (and came over VERY young) but Colon and Barretto were born and raised here! Hector Lavoe was in the MINORITY, having been born and bred in PR. He also came over as a sax player, but cut his singing teeth here in NYC.

Don't get into it with me on music, you are WAY over your head. Remember, I do this shit for a living!

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 10, 2006, 20:53:

Rubi You claim to be an expert on everything. When it comes to be opinionated, on this web site, you go to the top of the list. Do you have to be so dogmatic about everything?

I think as we go full circle here, you and I are saying the same thing, but we are looking at it from a different perspective. I never suggested that the word Salsa is from Puerto Rico. I know as well as anyone that the term was created in New York. But the artists I mentioned above did play Salsa rythms, even though they the word had not been coined yet. Bomba, and plena are didtinctly PR rhythms, but Salsa was not an offshoot of that music, anymore than some of the goofy Go Go Colombian people think it was an offshot of cumbia. It's afro Cuban rhythm is a derivative of what was simply the musica of the Son...and Son Montuno.

This whole thing started when you said that about a third of the salseros were not Puerto Rican. I disagree. In fact, I'll say it again, Salsa, in its classical form, or any form, would not have developed had it not been for the Puerto Rican musicians from here and Puerto Rico. Naming two New Yorkers like Colon, and Bareto does not change the fact that had it not been for the Puerto Rican artists that came here, these two guys would have never performed this music in the first place. So quit trying to minimize the role Puerto Ricans played, and to this day play in the development and evolution of Salsa

Taking the Puerto Rican factor out of Salsa, is like taking the chicken out of Chicken soup.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 10, 2006, 23:23:

I'm not taking it out I'm simply pointing out that it wasn't the only ingredient. And correcting you in that Salsa was played in NYC BEFORE it was played in PR, because that's just a fact. For awhile everybody was playing son, both here and there, and then the salsa developed HERE. It was not developed in PR.

And I said a third of the lineup of the original Fania All-Stars was not Puerto Rican, which is true, because four of them were not. If you count people born in NY as New Yorkers instead of Puerto Ricans, it goes up even further. You on the other hand seem to be claiming that Puerto Ricans have a more ground-level claim to the salsa, or that the essential salsa is 100% Puerto Rican.

The NY Times just did a huge spread on Fania because they are going to be remastering and reissuing over 350 old titles, it's called 'The Return of the Label that Made Salsa Hot' , from their June 4th issue.

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