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PBH / colombia (travelguide, pictures) / post |
Drinking and clubbing age?
How old do you have to be to drink in bogota, how about goin to clubs is there a required age? can you get around it? I have read that the clubs in zona roja are nice, are there any other areas?
By Diez Y Siete on Aug 3, 2005, 12:09 in Friendly Talkzone.
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dalupus says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:14: clubing Not sure about drinking age but pretty much I have only seen id's asked for one time and they were making sure everyone was 18. But in general noone cares unless you are like 12 or something. I have lots of friends that are like 16 and we go out to clubs regularly.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:18: do you think the would card b do you think they would card a blonde gringa? im 15 but i look alot older and would be with older ppl
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kernow62 says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:26: Dinking huh, that sounds perverted, what is it?
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MacGringo says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:34: Maybe Elmo knows about the act of DINKING!
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:38: jejeje it's supposed to be 18... but everyone drinks before that and 15 and 16 year lods go out clubbing.. . somehow they manage to never get carded
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:49: dinking i noticed i spelled that wrong but it wouldnt let me fix it smart ass..jaja just playing
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morphus says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:54: i have been out drinking with 16y/o girls in Colombia many times. one girl was asked if she was 18y/o once. she said "si" and they let her in without checking for I.D. that was at Mr Bebillas in Cartagena.
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MeLoNa says on Aug 3, 2005, 12:55: Drink if ur not 18 but watch out! Here in Bogota and the other cities as well, you can drink of your underage....in parties...you see underage duys and girls drinking all they can! but sometimes the polic wakes up! and wants to go take a look in some bars and thats the point were they take you to those teenager jails and you have to call ur daddy!!! so be careful! another thing is...if drinking is not crontolled that much here! you cannot be so convinced that you can peacefully walk with a beer in your hand in front of a policeman and of course if you have a baby face! Actually it happeed to a friend of mine one day we were in a little "tiendita" and he asked for a beer...awww but he seemed so "culicagado" (ass shitted) that the woman just said like: me muestra su cedula? can i see ur I.D.? and he was like oopsss...of course he came back to our table and we had to ask another friend of mine to go for the beer sicne he looked older even though there were the same age! sooo if you wann drink and ur underage feel free...but be careful hahaha!
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 13:03: what would they do if you were from out of the country and there alone and got caught drinking underage? are htere consequences from going into clubs underage?
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MeLoNa says on Aug 3, 2005, 13:27: i'm not sure if i got ur firts question but anyway,,, it depends on the club there are some clubs that ask for your I.D. but and if you don;t have if then too bad anyway some people here get some fake I.D. passwords so this way they can get in, and it happened once in Massai a dancin place here where the police caught many underage people dirnking and so the palce was closed for 3 months as far as i know...
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 13:32: my question first of all what does a 15 year gringa girl what to be doing drinking and carrying on especially in Colombia.....why is it you young kids...... just be kids....don't worry you will grow old fast enough.....why the hurry...believe me ...a 15 year gringa girl in a Colombian bar/club is not a good idea for god sakes wake up girl..what are you thinking listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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kat1 (Moderator) says on Aug 3, 2005, 13:41: If I am not wrong they can put a penalty or close the place "sellamiento" for serving alcoholics drink to an underage, sometimes the police do check ups in bar and nightclubs and ask for ID's. engage brain before opening mouth 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 3, 2005, 13:52: But they punish the establishment, not the person...
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kat1 (Moderator) says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:06: Sometimes it dooes, sometimes it doesn't. My brother's friend Bar was closed for selling alcohol to underages, and any amount of bribery could'nt help him. The Bar was closed for 3 month. engage brain before opening mouth 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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MeLoNa says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:07: there's no hurry I know...but anyway guys like to drink beofre 18...they ahve a problme with wanting to kill their neurons really EARLY! i don;t really go to parties and dirnk all night long...i'd rather dance salsa or reggaetton! but you know those guys are so stupid they think they are grownups just because they drink!!!
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:13: killing neurons early or late...really makes no difference..not only guys drink before they're 18. Women do too. When I was young my parents would encourage the fact that I drank at home and not somewhere else... so I could always have parties at my place. Then i drank all I had to drink.. and now I don't drink at all. it was good that I burned out all those impulses, before I had real responsabilities...
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:14: you guys are as guilty as she is its against the law period ....why are you encouraging her and helping her...all you doing is being an accomplice to the crime ....if she gets raped or dies from being drunk in any way are you going to fell sorry...you may not but you may be liable...in any country including Colombia listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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MeLoNa says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:16: hahahahahaha....well if you drink earlier you might kill enough neurons that might be useful to think better when you ahve greater responsibilities.
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dalupus says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:52: don't worry about it Don't worry about it. They aren't going to card you in the first place but if they do just produce an id card. I assume you don't have a drivers license so make sure you go get a State id card before you come. They work better than copies of your passport in my opinion. they take one look at the shinny piece of plactic and just wave you on. And in the chance they do stop you which is slim and none after you show your id card a little plata will take care of all. Just have a good time and BE CAREFUL. Do not go running around bogota clubbing alone.
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Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:53: Much as I don't like being in a club packed with sometimes really silly teenagers, I think the drinking age is bullshit anyways. Guys, please stop jumping down a posters throat. If you want to preach, THERE's the ocean!!!
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kat1 (Moderator) says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:54: I never touch alcohol until I was 22. :-P engage brain before opening mouth 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:14: rubiazo its quite obvious its quite obvious that you have no children...its quite obvious that you do not have any teenage daughters...you are probably a family's nightmare when it comes to young girls......look pal its illegal for a 15 year old to be drinking period or don't you get it..... I really don't care what you did when you where a kid....just cause you did it doesnt make it right ...we are talking about a 15 year girl who may be have a problem with making the right decision......she needs you guidance not your experiences....for god sakes man wake up listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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carolain11 says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:37: In places like teathron they ask not only for the cedula, but they ask you for the number, and the date on which it was issued, not many people remember that!!!
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:06: jaja I am a responsible gringa, i am staying with my boyfriend(he was an exchange student here) and his family. he is 19 so im not to worried about being "targeted". i know just to use my common sense, and i will be going out with his friends and him(the are all overage). i just dont want to go to a club that is known for asking for id's cause the i will really feel like the little kid. and i dont usually drink much but it would be nice to not worry about anything since i wont have parents watching me.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:33: Just a question Is there a law prohibiting sexual activis with minors or gringos, like there is in america? i just want to know with out someone jumping down my throat? i know the consequences and i have taken health class!
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:35: ???? you got to be kidding..i am thinkinig this is elmo toying with us listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:42: w/e no im serious, i was just curios as to the laws? i guess if no one finds out then no one cares. and does ne one know anything about the (i think its) "ilar" part of bogota?
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:21: Not compleatly she knows im staying at his house and she loves him to death he will 19 in dec. and im more the good girl. just wanted the info but i cant get introuble for what ppl dont know
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:22: good question probably not listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:30: vic you really like busting my chops dont you?
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Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:49: x3broken go to www.ageofconsent.com and look it up. I believe for prostitution the age is 18 but for bf/gf type relationships the age is 14 or something like that. Colombia actually has one of the most sensible and well-written laws on the books regarding those sorts of things, mainly because it was just all completely re-written recently.
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adrimm says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:51: For your sake don't mix up zona rosa with a zona roja! If you did and you were drunk (at just about any age) god help you.
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ColombianoNY says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:51: LIKE WHAT PEOPLE SAID I dont encourage it, its wrong. To tell you the truth, Im 16 and I look older. All I have is a Targeta De Identidad, maybe cuz Im under age. My cousins invited me to a club and we went, of course getting asked id and all, begging worked to get me in with my other 14 year old cousin, as I was 15 at the time. And that was last summer, and its risky, I knew. Thankfully, nothing happened, and no colombian police showed up. But remember, I was under the safety of my cousins that live in Colombia. So talking about risks, believe the other people, I agree with the fact that police do check around clubs asking teenagers for ids and holding them to their parents show up. In my case, they were here in the US, so if i got caught, they would have had to paid to come to colombia and "rescue" me.
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ColombianoNY says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:54: sexual activity? whats this girl up to?
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Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:10: are you kidding me? you're expecting a 15 year old to NOT have sex??
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:21: jiji im accually a really good girl. im not a virgin and my pasrents are split up though i do have some money. i dont want to get shitfaced i just want to be able to go out and have fun with out worrying about mummy and daddy finding out. but my bf doesnt want me to go to zona rosa, because hes afraid for me, eventhough hes there every weekend and tells me how fun it is. it will be his birthday while i am there. Any suggestions of nice restaurants for us and his friends to go to?
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ColombianoNY says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:28: wait, who recieves the 15 year old in colombia if she were to arrive alone, airlines do the under-minor thing you know. Now a restaurant, thats a diffrent story, as long as you dont drink, and if you do, i mean were not going to know, not in front of like everyone there and make it suspicious. This girl only wants to have a fun time in colombia, but the downside is your a gringa. All in all, its illegal for all underage people. Just remember that your at risk in colombia, especially when you mention you have money. gringo in bogota made a great example. Have fun in Colombia, Be Safe and Aware, and use common sense, as you say you dont want your parents to find out. I think your going to be fine.
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:35: this girl doesnt give up woow listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2005, 21:06: sounds like she was a Santanderana hehehehe listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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lpdiver says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:58: Well on the other hand... If they do keep the minors from drinking, they can always find some good drugs as they are 100% illegal and there is nothing to lose...no? "cook some rice!" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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BxUnika says on Aug 3, 2005, 23:27: Maybe It's The Heat But... Let me get this straight. You are a 15 year old child whose parents are letting you go to Colombia alone. Ok...
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we_love_colombia says on Aug 4, 2005, 04:16: CALM DOWN EVERYBODY!! LETS NOT GET TOO WORKED UP ABOUT IT!!!! Bloody hell i thought colombians were supposed to be chilled out about this sort of stuff. my mum encourages me to drink, hahahaha so i have about 10 units a week....shes colombian but people over here in da UK give alcohol to their kids from the very early age so she has been no exception...............im gonna be an alcoholic when i grow up.....
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kat1 (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2005, 04:31: In my opinion 15 still is too young, I had a 15 year old and the nonsense he sometimes comes out with, I let him to had one or two at a friends party but that's all, and I make sure that at the party there is adult supervision, teenagers and alcohol is not a very good combination. I trust him but I don’t how they will behave under the effect of alcohol, thanks God my daughter doesn’t like the taste of it. engage brain before opening mouth 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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boomer says on Aug 4, 2005, 08:46: Scratching my head............?????? I don't know any Adults that can handle drinking booze without any negative results, but you people seem to think it's ok for teenagers?? Is this some kind of justification for your own indiscretions? orgullo_de_colombia 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 08:49: mmkay let me explan myself yes i am a gringa i am 15, i live in the us, my boyfriend was hosted by my parents bestfriends. he will be 19 in december. my mother doesnot know im umm"sexually active" with him, and it was once. i dont usually drink, ive NEVER been drunk. i am not going to be unsupervised, i am staying with his parents at his house in pointe largo(i think thats that name of it) i am VERY responsible im not looking for troubke while im htere im just trying to make sure i wont get into any while im there. Im sure i will be well proteceted (i hope) im not really worried about the whole kidnapping thing(why in hell would they want me?) i speak spanish ok, im working on 4 years. my bf isnt aweful either, he is one of hte good ones, he does his share of partying but he is very level headed(hes going to javeriana right now) i dont like the drinking laws bcuz somekids just drink so that they can find trouble and be "daring"
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:06: thank you... i havnt ever really ate too much spanish food, well REAL spanish food. i do like friend plantanes, and i have heard i will get my fair share of rice at EVERY meal lol.
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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:08: hahah hey don't forget to try the marijuana when you're down there. it's 100% legal! If you go to El Cartucho you could easily work out some sort of a deal where you wouldn't have to pay a single peso for it :))))
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:13: GASP i would never do drugs, i mean drinking and sexual activities are one thing but... comeone, you really wouldnt suggest that, your killing your brain. i havnt even ever smoked, tisk on you!
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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:19: There was a little sarcasm in there. Just a bit :)
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:25: jeje i was hopeing so. i cant wait to go to bogota i know im not going to want to leave! it sounds sooo beautiful and im an artsy person so i cant wait to see all of the old structures! since ppl dont want me to drink what are some legal places for me to go :) that will still be ALOT of fun
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 10:33: hmm i guess not It seems some people on here only want to tell me what not to do and what i shouldnt be doing, but have no advice on what i SHOULD do or things i SHOULD be doing? i want to know of some place that would be nice for a group of ppl for a birthday occasion most of the ppl will be 18/19? and it will be in december
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:16: Hmmm Why does this thread bother me....
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:25: mhm im in high school and, though im sure every girl says this, he isnt like that, if he even talks to a girl he tells me. My mother has realized how extreamly rare he is and that is why she is letting me visit him for christmas. i would hate to find out he isnt what he says he is but i think that is a VERY rare chance. i have thought about doing my first year at college in colombia, i would like the be a special care doctor, i have heard the universidad nacional is very good for medicine, is it super hard to get into? i know both of his parents went there to be doctors? is that a more common profession there?
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:32: That's not so bad I thought you were going there from now UNTIL christmas not just for the christmas break. That reduces a lot of risk. But as far as your boyfriend goes... I hate to pour the cold water on the party (what's the spanish saying for that again?) but the longer he's down there "clubbing" the greater the chances you won't have the same boyfriend in December.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:41: hmmm...*thinks* He LIVES there and he ggoes out on the weekends, i dont care too much about him dancing with other girls vertically but i know he isnt horizontally, he just inst that type of person and i know this for a fact. he doesnt even like to dance. the reason he doesnt want me going (i found out from one of his friends) is because he doesnt want other guys to be around me, including his friends..lol. but i still dont know, you make me think alot.lol. But i cant be too clingy r jealous cause it IS hid first year at college and he's going to party some and go to clubs just cause he can
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:49: Well, you've been warned and teenagers have to learn the hard way.
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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 11:50: an teenage boy with a penis from ages 12 to 30 if given the chance will do the horizontall dance any chance he gets listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:18: it's like saying he's going to go swimming but he won't get wet, you know, because he's special.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:24: its like this.. yes hes in his first year of college and he will probably get drunk and kiss some girl, but as ling as he doesnt mean it and wouldnt have done it sober i dont care. he doesnt usually drink much. i have NEVER caught him in a lie and he was brought up in a well-to-do family. he is the most serious level headed person i have met. yes it seems silly to stay together eventhough we are soo far apart but we both decided it was worth it.And hes no ricky martin but i think he is soo cute, but look i dont really feel threatened with him cheatng on me, he has had 3 gf's(including me) and has only kissed 3 girls(his 3 gf's) has had sex with 2 ppl..me and his maid from like 3 years ago(every time i think of that it reminds me of meet the fockers) he is compleatly wrapped up in me, you wuld just have to see us together to know
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:25: ohh by the way are there any teen clubs in bogota?
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:34: "his maid?!" can you say, "Red Flag?!"
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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:36: hehehhe crazy your cracking me up listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:41: I love to see how this went from a thread about laws to a thread about my"not-so-good" boyfriend.. i guess you would just have to know him... i have pics though
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:57: I know him... I have been him.
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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:01: what's the use quinceañeras always know everything already...and besides, you guys are doing a good job in giving her good advice. I have nothing much to add. I'd like to have a couple of our younger Colombianos speak up however. "I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:06: You know what they say.. you can always tell a teenager, but not very much.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:13: i dont know EVERYTHING he has lived with the hot "latinas" his whole life and if i get dumped or heartbroken i guess it will be my fault, it will happen eventually, i know, but for right now i just like having him there. i mean im not the perfect gf either, but i realize that we mean alot to each other. god forid someone find someone who really cares about them. i know so many ppl "think" they have found someone special, but how do you know when it really is real? especially when you think you have and everyone convinces you that you havnt. even if we arnt together he will be my best friend and i will still visit him for xmas. and if we arnt together i get to flirt with tons of hot colombian boys. you guys compleatly have the wrong message of me i think. i dont know how to explain me or him or us in words
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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:23: ok, quinceañera so you don't know everything and I didn't mean to to be nasty either. It's just that I got a flashback from the time my daughter was fifteen and was dating a really cute caleño. She was in Cali just visiting over the summer and for the fifteen-year party (we all were there). She already had a boyfriend (of sorts) in Stockholm and I was worrying about her. She gave a perfectly good answer at that time: "Mum, I'm too young to be faithful!" "I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:31: i dont worry about this stuff usually because i dont usually do it. but this is my first time away from my parents and i want to make it rememberable. i want to have a blast ans just night i want to go somewhere "hip" (zona rosa or parque what ver that # is) i dont know it would just be nice for one day to just be "grown up" im usually the good girl, i never drink or go to parties and i will NEVER smoke!
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adrimm says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:39: Trust me Clubs are not needed to make a Colombia memorable. If you've never visited a developing nation with a different language and culture you will remember ALOT of things.
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kat1 (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:39: ahhhhhhhhhh young lovers. uhm ahhhhhhhhhh young love. uhmmmmmmm engage brain before opening mouth 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 13:55: add i thought the ladys where not reading this thread....wrong...good advice ladys... listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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utopiacowboy says on Aug 4, 2005, 14:56: 12 to 30? Make that 12 to 80 - the old guys will need a little blue pill or that electroejaculator they use on the bulls. Just remember to turn up the voltage! Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2005, 14:59: if i was a woman i would saya you are a PIG hehhehe but i am not listo 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 15:04: This thread is like someone asking,
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ColombianoNY says on Aug 4, 2005, 15:21: Let her go. I never thought this thread would get so long. As for QUINCEAÑERA, I understand your situation, you just want to party for one night without getting into trouble, cuz your the perfect girl, no offense, most of the time. Just go, if your confident nothing is going to happen to you, and this 19 year old is someone you can trust. TO EVERYONE, its a fever, fiebre, let her go and she'll get over it when its done. LOL, i see her posting another thread about her trip and what happened.
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ColombianoNY says on Aug 4, 2005, 15:25: he is responsible tho for his actions this 19 year old guy youre talking about better be a person of confidence because risking being in a dangerous situation, i just dont kno what to say if you dont have confidence in him, but you do. The guy most know the places where to go, and where not to go, and he should have common sense and you should too if you actually proceed to "party" in colombia, despite your age.
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BxUnika says on Aug 4, 2005, 15:56: Let's See... "BxUnika does that mean I can also blame your parents for raising you??"
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BxUnika says on Aug 4, 2005, 16:09: Really, the Older Adults on Here Are Right I am 22 and I can see that. In addition, I think if I told you the story about my ex-boyfriend in Cali, you'd really consider not going. The only difference is that I was 21 and he was 29. It turns out he had a fiancee back there and several other "amigas". It's been less than 8 months since either my relationship with him or the relationship with his ex-fiancee ended and he's now engaged again. If my ex was 10 years older than your boyfriend and still that immature, what do you think a young boy with hormones is going to be like?
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 17:56: jeje I like the wind up toy analogy, and my mother and i had a quite lengthy conversation about my trip today. she is excited that iam getting to go. and also if my trip goes well next year i will be applying to a few bilingual schools in bogota.yaness. this isnt just about my boyfriend its about me growing up and getting to make my own decisions.
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utopiacowboy says on Aug 4, 2005, 18:11: Yep. Bad ones. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 18:23: i noticed someone fixed that aswell...and doesnt everyone have to learn from their own expericences? everyone makes their share of mistakes but i want to atleast be able to learn about another culture and be able to learn from myself aswell
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 19:44: Bf He refuses to take me anywhere im not suppose to be! what a loser. does anyone know of ne truely billingual schools there? i know many say they are but someone who doesnt speak fluent spansih would NEVER get by in them
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 4, 2005, 20:19: Quinceannera Don't let this people screw around with your head. trust your boyfriend ( if we believed everything this guys said i wouldn't ever talk to a man) just because some of them use their time to lie to women and cheat on their wives and girlfriends, it doesn't mean all of them do. "El ladron juzga por su condicion" as we say back home.
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 22:11: Thank you Your comment made my week! Im glad the you are not one to judge and i thank you soo much for that!
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bkelly says on Aug 6, 2005, 16:03: Not judging Quinceanera, --bkelly 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 10, 2005, 21:01: Thought i would bump this on to the recent posts, but if no one else writes, is there a way to delete threads? cause if it isnt active its just taking up space
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 12, 2005, 15:12: I agree with BKelly and I also thing everybody is just trying to protect you...but some of the comments got offhand...
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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 12, 2005, 15:12: I agree with BKelly and I also thing everybody is just trying to protect you...but some of the comments got offhand...
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 14, 2005, 19:09: Car stealing game? What on earth is that?
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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 18, 2005, 18:38: ? no one answered my ? about car stealing
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