doing business in Colombia, monkey business or otherwise

christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 21:55:

anybody with any thoughs about fundamental differences in the way Colombians think, and go about their business, as compared to the people of North America?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on May 29, 2008, 22:11:

yeah, I know some of that to be true already.. jje

Where do we go from here?

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 22:39:

any further thoughts on this, goin south, that might be helpful to me, to the community here

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:40:

Hi Dawg: It's really nice to see you post;)

Yes - I have seen this, there is a lot of socializing. If business goes bad, since it is not black and white and more social - there tends to be a bit more conflict of interests and Payton Place stories about business deals.
You might be invited over for dinner to discuss buying your car (as opposed to over the telephone). A lot of time spent doing these things before getting a buyer (time consuming) and no business, another reason things can take some time to accomplish a transaction. - lots of hustling and haggling prices or arrangements too.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 22:44:

I haven't posted in a while, so I suppose this one meant something to me, Catgirl. We talk about so much nonsense here, I thought that maybe, since we now have some seniorty, as longer term members, might could get some meaningful thoughts on this. How ya doin, btw?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:44:

Also another reason why you should really "know" people there to do business if you wanted to do it from the US :))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:45:

Puuuurfect, jeje...

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:47:

Long time since we have had a late niter, eh?...How is celebrating your B day going?

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 22:49:

someone was telling me about buying a car, and how the person selling the care was a very nice person, a friend of the family, a good person, etc.. I was thinkiing, yeah we have used car dealers here, too, it is not the most interesting and most respected business in the world.
I was like, dude, what is the price of the car?, not thinking, do we have to have dinner with this person.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:51:

Yep, but things don't go as fast in Colombia either ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 22:53:

and yet there are so many things to get up to speed with, in dealing with a totally different culture jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:54:

Also the sensitivity thing, that I don't know. Never saw that before.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 22:55:

True Dawg. Very true...

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 22:59:

as in, the oversensitivity thing, over apparently nothing? I was told once that I was rude, for wanting to skip all of the 5 minute introductions, and get to the real issues at hand. I was dumbfounded, but they all just considered me a bit of a bruto. In the US, I am considered too laid back for the same behaviour that has them thinking I am too aggessivo.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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adrimm says on May 29, 2008, 22:59:

I think it depends on who the busines is between, what region you are in, and what the industry is. My impression is that business with a large corporation is probably closer to what is common in North America, whereas business with smaller entities can be much more "relationship" based.

I've heard the Colombian perspective too. One of my cousins works for a mid-sized firm that is working with some Asian companies... when the Asian reps (Malaysia I think) went to Colombia they were given 1/2 of the first day to recover from the trip, then the Cololmbian company took them out to sightsee. Business started on day 2. On the flipside when the Colombians went to Malaysia, after a 26 hour trip they were launched right into activities & business on they way in from the airport, and they had 16-hour day schedules set for them. My cousin was not impressed, said he had never had to make such a big effort to appear interested & polite.

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 23:07:

"as in, the oversensitivity thing, over apparently nothing? I was told once that I was rude, for wanting to skip all of the 5 minute introductions, and get to the real issues at hand."

Yes, if you did this it would be considered rude. There is a "way' they talk and interact. Dawg, are you able to hang out or be around any Colombianos and watch how they do this? Maybe that would be helpful? It;s not a typical 1,2,3 protocol..it's a "way" or a style. A certain flow so to speak.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 23:14:

Dawg - I recommend you ask to be present during some of these transactions and watch. Every culture is different and has a way of meeting and greeting. It needs to flow and not be choppy.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 23:16:

thanks cg, guess I was a bit too choppy. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 23:20:

jaja...well - You can always try again. Did you get to finish the transaction or did they say "forget it"?

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 29, 2008, 23:26:

Ok Dawg - I gotta go, but maybe look at it like you are trying to get to know someone first, start some rapport. Make a connection? Either way ...it will take some time ;))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 29, 2008, 23:29:

we are still all good, as long as I don't do any constructive criticism, which is always understood as destructive criticism

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Peter (Moderator) says on May 30, 2008, 00:02:

I think that's about right: social introductions take a long time, yes. Also, doing business is more personal (compared to the us): yes. It's the same in Mexico: the personal relation is more important than the contract. In the middle east, it's even more so. In Belgium it's somewhat like that too, in Holland much less (there the contract matters much more).

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on May 30, 2008, 00:04:

"I was told once that I was rude, for wanting to skip all of the 5 minute introductions, and get to the real issues at hand. " -> Haha. Typical cultural misunderstanding :)

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on May 30, 2008, 00:06:

This book has the best explanation of intercultural business that I've seen so far, I can recommend it :)
http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Organizations-Software-Mind-Intercultur...

Poor but snappy

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 00:30:

The book I was referring to, mostly, was something called something or the other like How to Do busiiness in 60 Different Countries, or that may have been the subtitle. It was not so informative but did get me thinking, or did confirm somewhat, what I was already seeing in Colombia, or in Latin America, generally.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Medellin Traveler says on May 30, 2008, 03:28:

christobeldawg says, "that they do not like to be critized, even constructively[who does?], and that, when they are, they tend to shut down, or to pull way back, if not disappear altogether."

Wow! This has definitely been my experience. I've been thinking about it for some time, trying to figure out what was up with a few paisas I was trying to develop a releationship with for a few ideas I have.

My case, they shut down, some have pulled back, but most have just plain disappered.

This hotel asked me how they could attract more Americans to stay at their hotel. They invited me to stay a few nights. I did, then gave them a long list of things they needed to change. They didn't seem too happy. In the beginning they were all excited, they treated me like family. but afterwards things changed very drastically.

Others have contacted me through my website www.medellintraveler.com wanting to share with me their business ideas, but after a few emails, where I often ask questions and make, what I would think, realistic suggestion they quickly disappear.

Thanks for information, at least now I know what happened. At least I got a taste of what's to be expected if one wants to do business in Colombia. It's something I can do without.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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Lowell says on May 30, 2008, 07:35:

Forget using logic, futuristic planning, common sence, proper inventory and control of inventory, intentional ignorance, after purchase sevice........

The other day I returned to the place that I bought 2 million pesos of their cabinets. I needed a few of the door parts. No chance. They only make and sell the cabinets. NO PARTS! WTF!!!!!!!!!!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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goin_south says on May 30, 2008, 08:08:

yeah, one can make you think you're under surveillance, with silence..jejej

now, back to work....with people you think you can understand ;-))

Where do we go from here?

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mcheasley says on May 30, 2008, 08:09:

Totally agree with MT.. A hotel in Medellin where i was staying on my first trip last year wanted ideas on improving tourist business and before departing i had an aquaintance that owns an english school translate my notes and even go with me to give my opinions to the hotel owner as requested.. BIG mistake!!! My years of business mgmt and marketing experience in the states didn't stand a chance with the colombian culture... I have totally restructured my way of doing things since i am in negotiations with home center and sodimac.. I learned quickly to take things slower than i am used to, and it seems to be paying off..

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 18:43:

Anybody noticed that Colombians tend to not apologize, even when they are clearly in the wrong? Is that another prideful. cultural difference?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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papiChulo says on May 30, 2008, 19:04:

... "Anybody noticed that Colombians tend to not apologize, even when they are clearly in the wrong?"

LOL... brings back memories. I once figured out a complex lie/fib that an old novia was spinning for a while. No apologies just admaration that I clued in. That was a different cultural experience for me... jijiji

I'm not greedy I just want a lot.

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 19:18:

to be fair, there are obviously many wonderful attritbutes that Colombians tend to have, those that draw us to their culture. Everyone here knows that. I am just trying to understand how to deal with them better, so that things might go more smoothly, in business and personal affairs. I would appreciate the comments of native Colombians, as long as they are not known as BillyB. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 20:33:

Dawg...why do you say " as long as they are not known as BillyB" ?

This apology thing..hmmm. I actually have seen it common with many from South America. Not sure if it is simply Colombia. But I am not sure if the Mexican Culture is this way?

From my experience, it is more of an unspoken "way" when they are clearly wrong. Each is different in how they cover their tracks, jaja (diversion, silence, creating an argument about a totally differnt situation that is your fault...so many ways) - either way, yes I have seen it but I do Not think it is isolated to Colombia ;))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 20:42:

only because billyb and I have a long standing unsaid agreement, shared understanding in giving each other a hard time. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 20:58:

jaja....OK.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:05:

I am actually the nice guy, he has issues. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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billyb says on May 30, 2008, 21:13:

Cdawg, I am very hurt by your comment, and if I wasn't so lazy i would flag you, jejje. BTW kitty, he's just pissed because i'm interrupting his "sensitivity" hour with the cougars, err, i mean the panthers ;)

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Robert Jorge says on May 30, 2008, 21:13:

I have also found a sincere apology is a very rare thing for a Colombian to accomplish. And, probably for most Latinos. I am in total agreement with Catgirl's observations. I am actually having trouble thinking of anytime I had a Colombian or Latino in general say they were sorry to me. And I can think of many instances where an apology was totally appropriate.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 21:21:

"que pena"

never heard it? I hear it all the time.

La vida es una rutina

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:22:

I bet if you threaten to send them money they will apologize for anything and everything.

billyb, I was depending on your laziness in getting away with that comment about you.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 21:22:

.

La vida es una rutina

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billyb says on May 30, 2008, 21:30:

Alma, he did say "I have also found a sincere apology is a very rare thing", so even though he might have heard it, he might not believe it was sincere. But i do have to say that Colombians as a whole (that is to say that there are planty of exceptions) do not take criticism well, but then again neither do most other cultures.

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:31:

something was either deleted, or worse. The mod squad must stay up all night and day.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:32:

ok well nobody takes criticism well, perhaps they just tend to take it even less well than in other places.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 21:35:

Ok. Gotcha! The deletion was mine. Sorry to disapoint!

La vida es una rutina

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slguy says on May 30, 2008, 21:36:

ohhh, I don't know. I have beem called every kind of asshole imaginable, from Malaysia to the Azores, and never took much offense. It's not so difficult, once you get used to it....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 21:37:

BTW - I am not eligible to be a Cougar.....excuuuuse me! There is a cut off age...ya know. I am below it. And I would guess TG is too (more so than me)..For the Record Boys ;))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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Robert Jorge says on May 30, 2008, 21:42:

I am not talking about things like: Your cousin accidentally knocks over your glass of Coca Cola, and he says "que pena" and helps clean it up.

I was thinking about serious issues like personal insults said in anger, deception, lying, false accusations, etc. Basically, when somebody is dead on wrong, everybody knows it, and they are too proud to make the peace by sincerely apologizing and asking for forgiveness. Entendido?

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:44:

getting used to being called an asshole must be a very freeing experience

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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slguy says on May 30, 2008, 21:45:

it's why any woman that doesn't call me asshole has my heart forever.

sadly, they're a very rare breed, for some reason....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 21:45:

RJ - true....VERY TRUE!

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:48:

sadly, they're a very rare breed, for some reason.... slguy

maybe because we are actually assholes?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 21:49:

Are you? Speak now or forever hold your peas ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:53:

well I don't mean to be, but according to those with a different agenda for me than my own, yeah, I must be

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 21:54:

"I am not talking about things like: Your cousin accidentally knocks over your glass of Coca Cola, and he says "que pena" and helps clean it up.

I was thinking about serious issues like personal insults said in anger, deception, lying, false accusations, etc. Basically, when somebody is dead on wrong, everybody knows it, and they are too proud to make the peace by sincerely apologizing and asking for forgiveness. Entendido?"

Si ....que pena ; )

La vida es una rutina

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 21:56:

that is what I was referring to, not everyday apologies for nothing, but the idea of actually saying sorry on some big issues, that is what I am failing to see.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 21:56:

never been in that situation in Colombia. Guess I'm just a pup over here!

La vida es una rutina

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 21:57:

DawgÑ ¨well I don't mean to be, but according to those with a different agenda for me than my own, yeah, I must be

This my dear is what I might call a loaded answer. It looks like there is something behind it. If you don;t mind me asking, What agenda for you?

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 22:00:

BTW - go easy Dawg....wait till YOU are clearly wrong and watch what happens, jejee - especially if you try to push the envelope when they are wrong..hmmm? (payback)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 22:03:

they?

La vida es una rutina

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Alma del Norte says on May 30, 2008, 22:03:

or us?

La vida es una rutina

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 22:04:

no CG, just observing in general, nothing particularly personal.

just trying to help the travelin community anyway that I can, as the culture there is so completely different than our own, the more I delve into it.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Robert Jorge says on May 30, 2008, 22:11:

No harm, no foul Alma del Norte.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 22:20:

Alma del Norte...I did not want to make any "assumptions" as to whom or what he was referring to. Actually I gave putting "they" a second thought too...Nothing intended at all except a temporary lack for a better word ;))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on May 30, 2008, 22:22:

It felt like Dawg was talking about one person or one situation. Dunno. Either way.....the word was the best I could pull up at the time. Could not "assume" he/she..OK?

I think.jeje

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on May 30, 2008, 23:20:

likely I am always referering to one person, or to one situation, as that is the only reality I know in speaking of generalites, but I am never actually referring to anyone, or anything, in particular

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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slguy says on May 31, 2008, 06:31:

well, that pretty much nails it down, dawg. glad you clarified that for us. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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goin_south says on May 31, 2008, 07:30:

Christobeldawg... .it's not a cultural thing.. .Even gringas, gringos... many people have difficulty with the words: "I'm Sorry"... especially, in the genuine manner. Many people can blurt it out dis-ingenuously, to cover, when they know they have done wrong.

"I'm Sorry" is easy to say, .... for a nice guy like you. (me? jjaa. I can say it, but I'm becoming a 'Not-So-Nice' guy)

Where do we go from here?

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Lowell says on May 31, 2008, 08:03:

In nearly 3 years here in Colombia and having way too many bad experiences dealing with its people, I'm now only here for my daughter and the physical beauty of the country. I've given up on the people. One good example is- a friend of my wife recently beat her daughter so severly that she had to go to the doctor. Later on it was found out that what the child had been accused of, was incorrect. The mother isn't very sorry. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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christobeldawg says on May 31, 2008, 09:15:

so that was clear enough for ya Slguy, not too vague? jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on May 31, 2008, 12:22:

GS - You are not so nice guy? Ahhhh. I don't believe it. ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on May 31, 2008, 13:27:

no mas, señor nice guy.

Where do we go from here?

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CatGirl says on May 31, 2008, 18:51:

GS - Are you changing? ;)))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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Lowell says on Jun 1, 2008, 08:02:

kindness is weakness , all good deeds go punished

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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slguy says on Jun 1, 2008, 09:20:

"kindness is weakness , all good deeds go punished"

on the other hand - no one takes advantage of you unless you let 'em. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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diesto says on Jun 13, 2008, 00:46:

Hey!!! I'm colombian and I feel that everything you just dicussed seems to be the thruth for me lol
I would like to know however, in which book did you read that???? please tell me

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christobeldawg says on Jun 14, 2008, 22:45:

Diesto, here is another one, not from any book, from reading another recent thread. Why are Colombians ok with no hot shower, even preferring a cold shower when their is hot water available? I live in SC, and it is very hot here, but still gotta have a hot shower. I love a hot shower, what is the deal with them making fun of me in Colombia for making such a deal of that?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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billyb says on Jun 14, 2008, 23:22:

We always have water and everybody i know in colombia has hot water, but that is not say that verybody in colombia has hot water. This is the stupidest argument yet, as the real colombia for foreigners seems to be dependent on what strato the colombians they most commongly have contact with live in. So a foreigner slumming in a strato 2 barrio, that is their real colombia that their limited experince allows them to propagate, and those gringos living the good life in poblado naturally think that is the real colombia, as that is what their limited experience leads to them to believe, but the real colombia for a colombian is whatever life they themselves and their families live, while at the same time knowing that most colombians live many different lifestyles from their own, but that is something a foreigner who, after spending a mere two weeks in colombia, in their hubris and absolutism born of ignorance refuses to accept or are unable to understand.

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christobeldawg says on Jun 14, 2008, 23:26:

only one la camp, and possibly one duck per website billyb

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Jun 15, 2008, 01:31:

what did he (bb) say?

Where do we go from here?

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CatGirl says on Jun 15, 2008, 16:12:

GS - I think he said ...(my guess) this is a ridiculous, broad brushed question.
I kind of thought the same.

"Why are Colombians ok with no hot shower "

Dawg, I have no idea why you asked it, maybe you need to clarify where this idea came from? I know many people that do not like hot showers, period. Maybe it was the wording?

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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christobeldawg says on Jun 15, 2008, 20:02:

cause I read about it on another post, and have noticed that Colombians, in general, think it funny that I always am wanting to know if the place I am staying has decent hot water. I don't like cold showers, though have been to go take one more than once. jaja
I just happen to love long hot showers, almost to the point of considering it a small crisis when I can't have one..

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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CatGirl says on Jun 15, 2008, 20:19:

Ahhhh....now this makes much more sense. Si - I can see the problem now. ;))

OK - looks like you are going to have to get a couple big pots, boil some Agua and maybe your Novia can pour over you in a big watering can..(joke);)

I am sorry about that. I would have trouble too, but I would simply jump in a tub of agua caliente and soak ;))

My heart goes out to you now Dawg

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on Jun 15, 2008, 23:14:

Dawg... it might get to be a crisis .... if you are taking tooo.... loooong... hottttt......showers..... Really, you're no spring rooster, dude. Need the cold for anti-inflammatory reasons... (not talking about conversations with La_Campina)

Where do we go from here?

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Joel y Luza says on Jun 15, 2008, 23:39:

Now that we beat the Hot water thing to death, How about flushing toilet paper? I am going to colombia for my first time soon.. I heard the building codes require smaller diameter sewer lines, and you are not suppose to flush the toilet paper? And if not, well, the obvious, what the hell do you do with it? or is somebody blowing smoke up my tail pipe, so to speak?

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goin_south says on Jun 15, 2008, 23:42:

throw it out the window..lol
....especially fun... if you are several stories up ;-)

Where do we go from here?

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Joel y Luza says on Jun 16, 2008, 00:00:

hey thanks! I am sure my new In-Laws and neighbors will love that!!!

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