Do Colombians ever leave home?

Roncita says on Jun 28, 2004, 07:13:

living with your boyfriend Hi Mitch,

That's a tough one. I lived with my Paisa boyfriend in Medellin for 2 years but luckily his parents were out of the country and he sort of had his own flat so there were no awkward questions asked - although some people obviously disapproved. My boyfriend is also very "modern" in his views on these things, and we met in Britain where he'd lived for a few years so he was used to doing things the British way.

Your boyfriend's parents sound pretty traditional and I knew several people who were in the same position as you. Mostly it was the other way round though - guys from Europe came over to be with their Colombian girlfriends, whose parents wouldn't hear of them moving out to live with their boyfriends, so the guys ended up having to get a flat on their own and their Colombian girlfriends continued to live with their parents. However, they were GUYS - you shouldn't be expected to live on your own (I'm presuming you're female!!!). I also knew of a few European girls who went over to their Paisa boyfriends, and their boyfriends moved out to be with them. No hassle.

You say you think your boyfriend wants to move out but he likes the easy life - and also doesn't want to upset his parents. But you also say you used to live together in London, so it's obviously not because your boyfriend is himself too traditional/conservative etc. You're making a huge sacrifice to go all the way over there, give up your life, family, friends etc in the UK (I know all about that...). If he loves you he should stick up for you and show his parents that he has his own life to live. I don't know how conservative people are in Bucaramanga but I know that living together before/without marriage is becoming much more common in Colombia - at least it is in Medellin, at any rate, so it's not as shocking as it used to be.

You should tell your boyfriend you want to live with him, and you don't see why he can't agree considering you lived together in London. That's my opinion anyway.

Any other advice you may want about relocating to Colombia to be with your boyfriend, feel free to ask me. (I'm living back in London again now.)

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ShazCas says on Jun 28, 2004, 08:57:

Totally agree Hi,

I'm a British girl the same age as your boyfriend and my husband is Colombian. I didn't get married because of the parents, don't worry, it was by choice!!

We lived together in Bogota for three years before getting married. His mum's traditional and very religious, but didn't seem to mind, and it's very, very common for couples to live together in Bogota, in fact, no-one seems to get married any more. Everyone said we were crazy when we got married, as all our Colombian friends were so anti-marriage!!

I totally agree with Roncita on this. You're making a big sacrifice because you love him, and I think you deserve more respect from his family. Don't let them rule your life now, or they always will! And why didn't it annoy them that you lived together on London? They may be strange about it at the beginning, but I'm sure they'll get over it. You're both adults now and don't need their interference.

Best of luck with all of that, I know how difficult it can be, but you'll love Colombia, and if you need any advice, I can also help out.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 28, 2004, 12:29:

living with your boyfriend I got married after a two-year long noviazgo, the last year we lived together in an apartment that we rented together. My in-laws were not thrilled, but I suppose they accepted it easier for me not being Colombian. We "gringas" are not supposed to have any morals:(. This was a long time ago, and at that time for young people living together without being married was fairly uncommon in Cali, especially in the middle or upper stratas. Anyway, after a church wedding and a large reception afterwards, I easily settled down in my role as "Doña" Desi:) and my in-laws didn't ever frown upon me, not at least in public.
During my last two-three visits in Cali I noticed that lots of young couples were now living together and accepted by their families and society in general. The fact that a Catholic marriage is practically insoluble, many people have opted for a semi-official second marriage: separación from the first spouse (separación de cuerpos y bienes), and a second alliance without the blessing of the church. This is not much different than a "concubinato" in the eyes of the priests.
People have been getting together and away from each other either within the boundaries of the civil or church laws or without: sometimes it takes years for the older generation to come around accepting the fact that the true commitment is that of the heart.
Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Mitch says on Jun 30, 2004, 06:02:

Thanks for your advise. It is good to hear from other people who have had similar experiences.

It is crazy that my boyfriend doesn't want to move out of the family home. His parents seem slightly conservative, but I am sure they will get over it. I just think it is slightly hypocritical as my boyfriend has slept with ALOT of woman in the past (obviously his parents don't know) but he can't/won't live with one girlfriend. Surely they would prefer he is in a commited relationship. Another point, my boyfriend has never been faithful to a girlfriend, although he says he has to me for the past 2 years and I believe him. Hopefully he has turned over a new leaf, although he said it is likely that he will cheat on me at some point in our relationship. I know what Colombian men are like, is he being a bastard, or should I not worry about it until it happens.

Anyway, getting back to the subject, I think either:

(a) he isn't ready for the commitment
(2) he's worried about upsetting his parent
(c) worried about the cost of rent and bills
(3) he likes the easy life at home with his Mum cooking and cleaning for him
(4) worried about me being in the flat on my own, as he works long hours (he has open his own shoe factory).

We have to reach some kind of compromise, and if he isn't prepare to live with me, then I won't go. I know it is abit tough, but I am giving up everything, and if he can't do this for me then we have got no future! He can't expect me to live on my own, if I have moved 7,000 miles away to be with him, not can I live with his parents in separate bedrooms, with our relationship under close scrutiny.

Anyway, will keep you updated on how things go.

Michelin

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poco says on Jun 30, 2004, 12:21:

Observation ie: opinion All of above list could be true. The vast majority of Columbians have very high moral beliefs and customs at all income levels.

Colombia is very modern,, BUT,, beliefs and customs ,,,, the country is about where the US was 40 years ago. I do not joke,, 40 years. Actually that is why I like the place.

Developed this opinion,, and I suggest you think and observe:

Not all,, a majority of the male children have absolutely no “chores” around the house. They perform no "work" at home, no duties etc. NOW,, they do seem to like to do "outside" the house work, if they can find it. They grow up this way.

Their mother does everything. When a Colombian (probably most of South American) male grows up and gets married his wife becomes his “Mother”. Washing, cooking, cleaning etc. Higher incomes have Domestic help and this seems to work out better. A woman might have things a lot better this way if they have some “diversion” like working or painting or ??? The domestics are perfectly capable of raising kids, washing, cleaning, cooking etc. Oh,, this is why labor saving devices are not real popular. Why buy a washer, pay electricity, repairs, soap etc. when you can hire/afford domestic help for less than $70 USD per month?

So,, after a few years of “mothering” the male has an incentive to have an amante (lover).

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 30, 2004, 13:02:

Unfortunately there is some truth to what Poco has posted about Colombian mothers. I am trying to get my wife to be less of a "slave" to her children and I do a lot of the housework so that her children can see that domestic chores are a man's job as well as a woman's job. I point out to her that she is not doing her sons any favors if they grow up thinking that it's a woman's place to wait on them hand and foot.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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vhzulu says on Jun 30, 2004, 22:39:

Be Careful I am a Colombian living in Naples,Fla..i know my people..so, pick up the number 3.

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Roncita says on Jul 1, 2004, 04:52:

Mitch, I can't believe your boyfriend said that to you about cheating on you. I don't know whether he should be commended for being honest or told what a bloody cheek he has! I too have heard quite a few unsavoury stories about Colombian men and their fidelity, but, as my husband points out (although he IS Colombian, after all....) it's the same in any culture - men will often have affairs, whatever country they're from, and women aren't always so perfect either (even Colombianas...). I just find it a bit worrying that you say he's never been faithful to a girlfriend before and is likely to cheat on you too, even if he does say he's been faithful to you until now.

I'm not sure what advice to give here! My husband says he is the faithful type and we have spent quite a lot of our relationship living in different countries (ie him there and me in London) and so far I trust him completely, but you never know what may happen. Obviously you are the only one here who knows and loves your boyfriend. Is he really serious about you? Have you ever discussed taking things further ie marriage/long-term commitment? I think you've got the right attitude when you say it's not worth going all that way if he isn't even going to live with you, but I think you should also discuss these things with him and really suss out how he feels about you before you make any big decisions.

Mind you, if you do go and it all falls through, you can still say you lived in an amazing country, learnt about a new culture, and had a million new experiences anyway.

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Mitch says on Jul 1, 2004, 06:08:

yes, we have spoken about married and children etc, and it seems positive, but he can be abit immature and is always changing his mind - so I never know where I stand.

When we lived together in London, we had an amazing time, and he used to cook for me alot, so I think he is quite domesticated. Although this changes in Colombia, as I find him more lazy there!

On the fidelity point, I think he is both incredibly stupid and just trying to be honest. I was quite shocked when he first told me that he had been unfaithful to all his previous girlfriends. He is a lovely guy, very sweet and considerate, and I just couldn't imagine he had done that. But then again he was quite young then. Also I find that generally Colombian woman do flirt alot, men are weak and are eaily tempted. I was shocked when I visited him last in Bucaramanga, and these girls were openly flirting with him while I was there!!

I don't want to generalise, as people are the same all over the world.

Hopefully if we do settle down and have some children, he will have to grow up, and realise that he will lose everything (me, his money and children!) if he does stray!

Michelin

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Mitch says on Jul 1, 2004, 06:39:

And another thing, our sex life in England was fine, but when I have visited him in Colombia it has been vrtually non-existent. It isn't helped by havin separate bedrooms at his parents house! But anyway, he said he doesn't want to have sex at the moment as he has had so much throughout his life that he feels "full" and wants to be celibate for a while!!! Also, he said he didn't want to have any sex while I visited, as if he did it would tempt him again, and he would be unfaithful while we are apart. Is he giving me a load of bull. He is abit 'deep' and quite spiritual to a certain extent, but I can't live without a physical relationship. I just hope it improve when I move there, adn that is partly the reason why we need to get a flay together.

Michelin

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 1, 2004, 07:30:

Hard to judge from a distance It's hard to judge fairly from just postings on a message board, but your BF sounds like he's not EVEN close to ready for a serious relationship with you. On one hand, I find his honesty about his sexual behaviour and needs admirable (after all, "cheating" as a concept is a very specific social construct that not everyone or every culture shares) but it also sounds like he's just a bit selfish in his choices by not including/considering your needs very well.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 1, 2004, 07:52:

Mitch, I certainly agree with your comment that "I don't want to generalise, as people are the same all over the world." I think they are the same - but different cultures seem to tolerate different behavior. Women will flirt with me when I am with my wife in Colombia but this seldom happens here in the US. Men here are conditioned to look for a wedding ring on a woman's finger and respect it (for the most part) whereas my wife said that men in Colombia did not care that she was married - they would continue to try to put the moves on her. Maybe Colombians are just more open about these things.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Roncita says on Jul 1, 2004, 08:08:

It sounds like your boyfriend has a split personality, ie was one person in the UK, and a different person back on home ground in Colombia. I find his lack of interest in sex quite strange - especially coming from a latin male - ! (Sorry to generalise too....) If he wants celibacy, maybe he shouldn't be in a relationship at all - especially as you say the physical side is very important to you. I also find his reason for not wanting to have sex with you because it might "tempt" him to be unfaithful difficult to get my head around!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2004, 12:04:

I wonder... I don't want to put "cucarachas" in your head mitch, but it just ocurred to me that if your boyfriend had another woman in his life he might not be that interested having sex with you at the same time....especially since you said that everything was just fine while you lived in London, but he wants to be "celibate" when you're in his city and staying at his parent's house...there's something there that doesn't sound right...

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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viewpoint says on Jul 1, 2004, 15:20:

Celibacy or Celibate ????? Dear Desideria:

What is Celibacy or Celibate ?????? I can't find it in "MYYYYYY" dictionary !!!!!!!! jajajajaja

PS: I know this is a serious subject for Mitch but I had to inject some humor !!!!!!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2004, 22:14:

celibacy? Heyyy Gary, don't ask me, I didn't invent it! :)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Mitch says on Jul 2, 2004, 06:11:

Thanks for all you advise, it has given me something to consider.

I don't think my boyfriend has another woman on the sly in his city, as the bloke is so god damn honest, so I am sure he would have told me. Like he told me he will probably cheat on me at some point in our relationship - what sane man says that! Also, he wouldn't have let me meet all his friends and family, if they knew he had another woman.

His mother and sister are also follow this strange Indian cult leader (The Master), and I think some of his teaching has rubbed off on him - no joke!!

I spoke to him on the phone last night, and he is lovely - it reminds me why I love him. I think I will still move over there, and see how things turn out. If I don't I will always regret it and think 'what it' for the rest of my life.

Michelin

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 2, 2004, 10:41:

Cults and marriage Two of my close friends' marriages have failed because their husbands have been involved in some cults that encourage celibacy, giving away their posessions and detaching themselves from mainstream patterns of society. I don't think these cults or sects are the same ones your boyfriend's mom and sister follow, but there might be a connection there to his "strange" behaviour.
Try to find out as much as you can about this cult; what kind of demands it makes on the followers, and by all means, go and live in Colombia and find out yourself what it's all about!
Cheers,
Desi
(Colombian guys are really wonderful, I agree. BTW there was an article on the Semana not long ago about infidelity. They had conducted some kind of research or poll, and surprisingly, 71% of the people asked (both sexes) said that they have never been unfaithful to their spouses/mates)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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