Dia Sin Carros - Day Without Cars - Car Free Day TODAY!

gabolicious says on Feb 7, 2008, 09:35:

wait a minute adrimm is without cars, completely without cars or just some cars will be allowed???

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2008, 09:56:

Public transport commercial and emergency vehicles are allowed - including taxis, but people aren't allowed to drive their own cars and must use some alternative instead (bike, walk, transit)

It is estimated that the event lessens the vehicles on the road by 1 and half to two million, and has been recorded to make a huge positive impact to clearing the air in Bogota.

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gabolicious says on Feb 7, 2008, 09:58:

I agree, I hope it is on a Sunday.... otherwise I can imagine how difficult will be for people to get on time at work... cause even with cars... trasmi is "sometimes" very crowded... anyways i'd love to see some pics of a bogota free of cars....

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

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ColombianoGringo says on Feb 7, 2008, 10:05:

This is great. I just read somewhere that Bogota has the most polluted air in Colombia.

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2008, 10:13:

No. It is today a weekday.

The other point it makes (succinctly) is that even though it is crowded, the city has enough transportation alternatives (including 330 kms of separate bike lanes) and transit to actually still function, and people tend to have the services they need closer at hand. 95% of residents still cary out relatively normal activites

Day without cars held almost anywhere in North America would paralyze a city becuase our transit alternatives are so disgustingly inadequate.

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gabolicious says on Feb 7, 2008, 10:16:

mmmmmmmmm ok see how it works in bogota... hope it works good....

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

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Strobers says on Feb 7, 2008, 12:53:

I'll never understand how such an advanced country as the U.S.A. with so many resources can't put together something like this, somewhere.

I think it's awesome that people are willing to actually stand up and do something for the sake of the planet and their personal health, instead of filling the airwaves with empty rheteric that disappears like a puff of smoke.

"Life is too serious to be taken seriously"

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podborski says on Feb 7, 2008, 13:10:

I'm a car guy, but I still like this idea. I don't see the USA ever giving up the car culture, and I don't think Canada could (try waiting for an hour for a bus in minus 30 weather), but I'd seriously consider moving to a place that could cut down cars/buses dramatically.

I wonder if you couldn't at least ban cars from the inside of big squares of blocks, maybe 5 grouped together if you know what I mean.

Where I am now I don't need a car. I have literally everything I need within walking distance, repair shops, glass shops, locksmiths, supermarkets, etc. etc.

But every little tiny street here has half empty buses roaring up and down it all day and night.

Why not keep all the traffic to the outskirts, and people could park there and walk 2 and a half blocks to their home?

Or at least keep buses out and walk 2 or 3 blocks to catch one? That's at least one thing that north america does that is better than the millions of colectivos everywhere down here.

Maybe one day a week you could open to cars and people who needed to have furniture delivered or whatever could do it that day.

Just thinking out loud.

I heard Florianopolis in Brazil is one of the most advanced 'green' cities in the world. I hope to visit it soon. Bogota is doing great things, but it really needs to, the pollution is overwhelming at times.

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ColombianoGringo says on Feb 7, 2008, 15:45:

El Tiempo is reporting that while carbon monoxide is down about 45% compared to a typical day. However, airborne particulate matter is up 43% over a regular day because of the increase in use of diesel powered vehicles for the day. Those airborne particles have been shown to cause a lot of respiratory issues. So on the whole, the results from a pollution control standpoint are mixed.

In another article, they state that "cleaner" diesel is coming to Bogota in the next few months. I guess they mean the lower sulfur diesel now available in the US. I don't know how this would affect airborne particle emissions.

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miamimike says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:35:

CG--another thing about Diesels is the fact there are many older Diesels still on Colombia's Roads while here in the US this would never be permitted due to our stict Emission Laws. I can see the vast difference in my Newer VW Turbo Diesel with a tight Engine compared to my old Mercedes Diesel cars which clattered away like an Amplified Broken Typewriter. And they smoked a lot when you stepped on the Pedal. With New Diesel Technology and Low Sulfur Diesel fuel, its a night and day comparison. Colombia needs to legislate Stricter Vehicle emission Laws&Standards and then put teeth into enforcing the Laws.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2008, 18:14:

A few images:

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houstongal says on Feb 7, 2008, 18:44:

Very cool photos. Very eerie to not see cars other than taxis and busses in the first photo!

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:23:

I know, isn't it cool?!

Here are some others courtesy of flickr:

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 8, 2008, 00:58:

I never saw a person wear a bike helmet in the 4 months that I lived in Villavo. Looks like Bogota is a lot different.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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webmanco says on Feb 8, 2008, 05:03:

http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/



http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/



http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/



http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/



http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/



http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/v/La+Capital/nocarro/

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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vicshere says on Feb 8, 2008, 05:29:

Miami mike
I would like to clarify something about diesel engines..
most diesel engines made in the last say 30 years or so which has the proper compression and the injection pump is in good condition and properly timed and also using proper grade of diesel fuel (not ACPM- kerosene) will not produce smoke....there is no reason that a diesel engines should produce smoke...actually the smoke you see is unexploded diesel fuel when the above items are not working properly...as you may know a diesel engine doesn't burn the fuel but rather explodes it under the high compression in the cylinder chamber.....the problem is that most people who own a diesel engine think its like a gas engines and that's not true....most people actually don't know how to care for the engine....now this goes for cars truck and buses......the reason you see so many diesel vehicles in Colombia producing smoke is the repairs to diesel engines are much higher than gas engine and also parts are much more expensive especially the injection pump which usies parts which come directly form Bosch the main producer of pumps....the proper grade of diesel is not easily readable in Colombia.....so people end up using ACPM which is total crap and also its cheaper than diesel...here I B/managa there is not one station that sells diesel....so every one has to use ACPM
OK now about the no car day....I think its total crap...they take the car out but leave the biggest producers on the road like buses and trucks.....I have see one bus or a truck that puts out more smoke than 300 cars.....what they really need to do enforce the current emission standards which are way too high but better than nothing...I just hope the new "revison technica mechinias" national program will remove many unsafe and polluters from the roads

listo

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vicshere says on Feb 8, 2008, 05:30:

and as for the helmets in Bogotá that's not for safety...they use em to keep their heads warm :)

listo

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webmanco says on Feb 8, 2008, 05:35:

In Bogotá big trucks are going to be restricted coming into the city, the new Terminal de Carga is almost ready. There will be also a "terminal de transportes" in the south of Bogotá so Flotas would not have to drive all the way into Bogotá

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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slguy says on Feb 8, 2008, 09:05:

I guess is easy to take shots at almost anything innovative. Nothing's perfect. But I'll be damned if I can be critical of ANY major city who least takes a crack at problem-solving, instead of denial/ignoring.

Bogota has MUCH to be proud of!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2008, 09:25:

Vic--I understand what you wrote about the Diesel Engines(Old vs New) as I have owned several Diesels the last several years. My latest is a VW Turbo Diesel. In Colombia, there are MANY VERY Old Diesels and probably many have over a Million Miles on them. I doubt the Maintenence has been performed as it should have been and the Injection Pumps are probably out of time, the Rings&Valve Seals have seen their better days and allow unburned fuel to escape into the Air via the Exhaust. All that Gray/White/Bue Smoke from a Diesel afer startup is a Cardinal Sign that the Rings are shot. I listened as the driver one old Bogota City Bus attemped to crank the Engine over for 5 minutes but it was a no go. Probably due to the fact it didn't have the proper Compression to enable the Starter to do its job. Fact: Diesels will not turn over and start if they do not have adequate Compression and Glow Plugs in proper working order to light off the compressed fuel/air mix. Diesels do not have Spark Plugs but Glow Plugs to enable Ignition . I am well aware of the fact that Diesel Engines are High Compression Motors(my vw diesel is 19;1) VS a Low Compression ratio of 8:1 in a gas Motor in the same car. The Maintenence on Diesels isn't so expensive when you consider that if you change the Oil&Fuel Filter(s) every 6-10K miles, Adjust the Valves on a Regular Basis, these Diesel Motors can run forever. A Greek Taxi driver has 2+ Million Miles on his Mercedes Benz Diesel taxi and still running strong! Bottom line, these Old diesel Trucks and Buses on Bogota's streets should be pulled out of service and scrapped.Do the Enviroment a Big Favor. I doubt it would be much cleaner with Low Sulfur Diesel(even if they could get it) considering the poor condition of many of these Motors. I think Bogota has made major strides in cleaning up the City Smog/Pollution Wise. Tip of the Hat to these City leaders for their Success in doing so,,,

Adrimm, Webmanco, Colombiche-- Thanks for the Very Nice Photos of Bogota's Streets--the Air looks so clean! Do my Glasses need a new prescription? LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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vicshere says on Feb 8, 2008, 09:40:

mike nice to read a knowledgeable post

listo

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mranderson says on Feb 8, 2008, 09:50:

My unknowledgeable comment......

With the new diesel engines you can reprogram the computer and significantly increase the horsepower thus creating much more black smoke out the exhaust. I don't know if you can tune an old engine to do the same. Although with a significant increase in horsepower you also get a significant decrease in fuel economy. The way these bus drivers drive seems they all have them tuned for horsepower :)

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vicshere says on Feb 8, 2008, 09:58:

any time a diesel engine is putting out smoke is because there is unspent fuel which is not being combusted.....the only to increase horsepower from a diesel engines it to install a turbo which actually increases the compression...the whole idea of a diesel engines is to run the engine at a nominal point where you are getting both economical and power balance.....anyone that wants or has a diesel engine and is looking to race has the wrong vehicle ...you should be driving a gasoline vehicle

listo

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2008, 10:05:

Vic--here is a Link to that Greek Taxi Driver who has an old 240 MB Diesel as a Taxi. Go to the 4th paragraph in the Article for his story: http://www.mblink.mbusa.com/Inetapps/PressReleases.nsf/Inews2/D76FF750...

He has 2.8 Million miles on this car,,,

On the Turbo, the Difference between a Turbo vs a Non Turbo is Night and Day performance wise for a Diesel.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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vicshere says on Feb 8, 2008, 10:10:

oh I know they exist mike....my dad had a 240D 1974 and he drove that car till he died in 1997 and we don't know how many times the speedometer when over...I remember taking it to New York city one time from Toronto...I think back in those days it cost like 15 bucks total trip in fuel

listo

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mranderson says on Feb 8, 2008, 10:23:

Don't all new diesel engines have turbos? Maybe it's an adjustment to the turbo. I really don't know but the point is not for racing. It's designed for truck owners who tow heavy trailers and need more horsepower and torque. Although from what I have seen you can make those diesel pickups pretty fast by tuning the computer.

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2008, 10:25:

Vic, about cars.

Right now I think we can agree that on a normal day traffic in Bogota is horrendous, nearly at a standstill on some streets during rush hour.

With personal car ownership at 30%, 35% or so, Pico y Placa cuts the number actually on the road during rush hour to about 15%.

If the 1.5 million cars that make up that 15% can already effecively bring traffic to a standstill during rush hour, what happens when car ownership jumps? The economy in Colombia is growing, what happens when ownership hits 60% ?

The car is supposed to be a symbol of mobility, but in Bogota more cars just mean more people getting no-where.

The point of Dia Sin Carros isn't just to clear the air, it's to encourage people to use alternate modes of transportation, and realise that they can around quite quickly - in the long term picture this is what matters the most.


I'm willing to bet that the number of commuter cyclists grows significantly from the previas year's dia sin carros.

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2008, 11:18:

Adrimm-I would love to see Bogota's Program Un Dia Sin Carros here in Miami but I doubt it will happen in the foreseeable future as we have such Limited Public Trasportation not only in Miami but throughout Florida. A few years back, a Consortium of Public/Private Funders wanted to run a High speed rail Line from Tampa-to Orlando- and Miami but Anti Rail Ex Governor Jeb Bush rallied to stop the Plan. Its rumored now that since he is gone, New Governor Charlie Crist is receptive to the Idea so maybe it will fly afterall. Extensive Public Transit, either High Speed Rail and/or Bus Concepts such as Bogota's Transmilenio, is the only feasble idea in Florida. Our Miami Streets and Intercity expressways become more clogged daily here in Miami and there simply isn't anymore room to build new Highways, at least here in the city proper.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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de pronto says on Feb 8, 2008, 11:32:

Por eso me gusta Bogotá, la ciudad en sí es muy bonita (al menos a mí me gusta) y sin autos se ve espectacular.

Gracias a adrimm y webmanco por compartir esas fotos con los que no podemos estar allá.

Saludos

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2008, 12:19:

Miamimike,

That's just it, all cities will eventually be infilling and densifying. It's delusional to think that as this happens there will still be enough roadspace for everyone, so the sooner that alternatives can be provided the better. So much of Florida seems to be low-lying that I doubt metro/subway is feasible.... and that leaves surface systems.

Personally, I think that Bogota has about the most perfect climate ever for cycling, but of course other pesky little things like culture interfere with making biking an acceptable way to commute (but perfectly ok for recreation).

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 13:10:

Alright, so we had the day without cars yesterday......I had to stay home losing a day.

Now today, everyone brought their cars into town so it was the worst traffic mess i've ever seen here. Two hours each way just to go a few miles.

There is probably more pollution as a result of no cars yesterday.

So I didn't get much done today because I spent 4 hours stuck in traffic. So I just lost two days.

This problem is not the car owners fault.

If the govt wants to build a metro on Septima, then go ahead.

If the govt wants to take the older busses off the street, then go ahead.

If the govt want to build more roads, then go ahead.

This business of taking the cars off the road for a day is for the birds.

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2008, 13:18:

Why drive at all if it takes *hours* to go a few miles? Hop on a bike or walk. If 30 mins of excercise is too hard then something isn't right.

As far as I'm concerned people who choose to drive and live where they will undoubtably be faced with massive traffic get what they deserve - frustration and stand-stills.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 13:34:

adrimm....it would take you all day to walk from La Coligna to Chapinero Alto.

I was invited to speak to some children at a school and needed my computer to show slides so add on carrying a computer bag.

Where exactly do you live anyway? Do you know what it is like to walk on a highway with no sidewalks much of the time as well as trying to ride a bycycle on a street with taxi maniacs?

You've illustrated my point that the people who think up these farces know nothing about what it's like to live and work here.

Last night, my girlfriend was stuck on a dark street corner for two hours after her class was over at Javeriana. With no one bringing their cars the taxis were overwhelmed yesterday.

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2008, 14:43:

I don't live in Bogota but a fair chunk of my family does and I have spent time there. Including lots of time commuting - recently I might add.

The people who "dreamed" up Dia Sin Carro was the Mayor of Bogota, and it was voted *for* by the citizens of Bogota in a referendum - you are pretty much suggesting that the citizens don't know their own city.

I've stayed in Niza - not so far from La Colina, and stayed in Chapinero near Cl 63 & Cra 7 - not so far from Chapinero Alto. You're looking at about 5 - 6 miles, walking might be out of the picture, there are bike routes and TransMilenio.
http://www.idu.gov.co/sist_trans/Download/red_ciclorrutas.pdf Bogota's got 330 kms of fully separate bike lanes,more extensive than almost any city in the Americas.

Or maybe a 20 minute brisk walk to TransMilenio (Prado station), 20 mins to Flores or Calle 72, and then maybe 12mins or so to Cra 7. Stuff the laptop in a pack and wear it on your front.

As for your girlfriend, she could have walked down and ridden a buseta, or a little further and got in line for TM or shared a cab with someone heading north. I find it hard to believe that Cra 7 would have been so dead that she was scared to start heading home - unless maybe she is new to Bogota? How do you think countless other students get around.

I've walked from Niza to the AutoNorte and vice versa at night, and been out in around Parque Lourdes and Candelaria alone after dark.. (no I wouldn't reccomend wandering Candelaria often after dark, but I didn't have the luxury of classmates to hang out with). Chapinero was great tho. . I'm less then 5' tall and a girl.

I am absolutely stunned by your rigidity - it's *one* day of the year.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 15:45:

Quote: "I don't live in Bogota but a fair chunk of my family does and I have spent time there"

So your family lives here and that makes you an expert on day to day living. And you've spent some time here.

Quote: "Walking might be out of the picture."

Well thanks for retracting, (somewhat retracted that is, because you can't admit your're wrong), your original false argument that you made in your first post. After my slide show to the students, i drove them and the teacher to Exito and El Defensoria for an outside field trip. Am I supposed to stuff the teacher and students into a "pack and wear it on my front".

Quote: "As for your girlfriend, she could have walked down the hill and got in line for TM or shared a cab with someone heading north. I find it hard to believe that Cra 7 would have been so dead that she was scared to start heading home. How do you think countless other students get around?"

Boy you people up there in Canada sure can tell us/advise us on how we should live. My girlfriend DID, after one hour, walk down to the Transmilenio; it was completely overwhelmed; she would have never gotten on with the length of the line so at that point she called me and started walking back to 7. And there were hundreds of people standing out in front of the university. Share a cab? You're getting pathetic. There wasn't one empty cab the whole time that went by, let alone stopped and picked up any of the hundreds of students. it was only when I called a taxi friend of mine and promised him a bottle of jack daniels plus 50 mil that he went and picked her up.

BTW, she is being challenged on her dissertation at three universities this week and had to be fresh this morning.

Quote: "I've walked from Niza to the AutoNorte and vice versa at night, and been out in Candelaria alone after dark. I'm less then 5' tall and a girl."

Oh my god, we've got Superwoman here. boy I wish I was a big super hero like you, and then i could have flown to javeriana and saved the day.

I am absolutely stunned by your ignorance Miss lives in Canada and imagines to be a Bogota expert.

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webmanco says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:26:

Gringoloid not offense but both of you are right, it all ends on the kind of life each one lives, people used to drive the car (or having a chofer) will have harder time getting the bus or whatever, I was outside that night and although I was not that close to a university, I saw people doing fine.

I was going to Teathre in la Candelaria and the show was going to start at 7:30 PM, at last time plans were changed and I ended up at a Concert by a group of Andean Music. Illapu, from Chile.

Even though Adrimm is not living in Bogotá, I would trust her knowledge on Bogotá more than other PBH living outside.

I had seen girls late at night in supposely dangerous neighborhoods, and I am sure they are not superwomen, but instead they live in the area and got not more choice. Even at one time I offer one girl to take her to her house in Suba and she said not because it can be dangerous, I took her regardless, and I am sure I am not superman either but somehow I do take risks.


http://colombiche.net/mipueblo/d/1813-2/illapu1799.jpg

(I really hate it when women get their panties all bunched up their butt, they can get so cranky!) Poor butt happy

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:36:

It's obvious to me that many people hired taxis for the whole day so they could get around without their cars. those may be the people you saw.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:41:

adrimm is a wise guy who was ridiculing my situation. i can't walk right now or even stand so someone providing fortune cookie answers to a very difficult two days deserves it shovelled right back into her face.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:48:

My original point was only that this serves no purpose.

Can anyone provide the metrics on how this improves the traffic situation here?

This is a govt problem and it is to be solved by the govt, not individual car owners. We know there is a problem, for chrissake.

I could careless if you made every day a no car day; i would then pack up and move to Medellin.

I only said to provide some action to solve the problem rather than causing two days of hell.

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:49:

Whoa there... My intention is not to be offensive, and if comes off that way (which judging from your reaction I think it has) I do apologize.

Personally I interpreted "a few miles" as something like 3 which is what led me to think walkable... and always bikeable. Transporting students shouldn't be on you, it's the schools resonsability - I think you are being too nice if you are offering to give students rides.

Not an expert, but definitely a student of mobility. Yes I do feel I know parts of Colombia somewhat, with fairly regular visits, and having spent up to 5 months at time there, being bilingual and having regular contact with a hefty number of people of all ages - I certainly wouldn't be making many of the statements that I am if I didn't feel comfortable doing so.

I know everything motorised was overloaded, it has been every year. Despite that I'm still of the mind that with a bike or some advance plannng the annual Dia Sin Carros doesn't have to crimp life much

Shall we agree to disagree?

Hope that the thesis presentation(s?) went well.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 18:08:

the funny thing is, if i went to canada and the usa and told them, "look people, you're going to have to leave your cars at home today, carry on as usual, go to work, take busses and taxis, and if you're defending your thesis at a university that day, ha ha, go fok yourself, we don't care if this foks up your life. How would that go over? I would love to see the look on the off shore colombia experts faces.

I only want to see actions to solve the problems, not whitewash.

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jorgegdiaz says on Feb 8, 2008, 18:34:

JAAJAJAJAJAJA
GL, I´d love to see people in the US having a day sin carro. Can you imagine L.A. Houston, Miami, Dallas, Washhintong. St Louis... w/o cars?

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2008, 19:08:

JD---Here in Miami, One day without Cars would bring the Population to their Knees; think of a reaction like if 12 Inches of Snow fell on Miami. I would get by just fine as I also Walk or Bicycle whenever possible and when it isn't, I load my Bike on front Bike carriers of The Miami Transit Buses or on the Various Area Trains, which allow cyclists to do just that. People here are so Friggin Lazy they would Stroke Out if they had to gve up their Gas Hog SUVs for 24 hours. I'd love to see it! That said, also by the same token, I wouldn't walk thru Liberty City or the Overown areas here in Miami as Safety(lack of) just doesn't permit it. In all reasonable situations, I will Bicicyle, walk, use my 50cc scooter or use Public Transit and a Car as a Last resort,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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gringoloid says on Feb 8, 2008, 19:24:

thank you, jorgediaz, and mike/

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lpdiver says on Feb 8, 2008, 19:54:

What would be really cool is if they would put a biodiesel infrastructure in place. Colombia has the affordable resources to do so. They could show the rest of the world the way.


Perhaps I could interest Willie Nelson in a start up there. Then there would be to agricultural products he could support!


T

"cook some rice!"

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miamimike says on Feb 9, 2008, 08:53:

lpdiver--A Consortium in my old Neighborhood in Erie, Penna is doing just that, building a New Biodiesel Plant across the street from where I used to live in Ere, Pa. When I was growing up there, we had the Hammermill Paper Mill on tha site, making that famous Hammermill Bond Typing Paper. Now they are history and clsoed down aftr International Paper took the over so this group saw the Location(close to rail lines and Interstate highways) as a Perfect location for its new BioDiesel Plant. It won't be long before they load up the first tanker with fuel for the market. Colombia, due to the Large Number of Diesel Vehicles in use and its existing Petro Industry, would make a great Location for a Biodiesel Plant Location.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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gringoloid says on Feb 9, 2008, 13:13:

forget the day without cars........I propose for northamerica, 'Día Sin Cocaina'.

If you want to help Colombia and break the back of FARC, snort something else.

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 14:32:

GL, this Dia Sin Carros sound pretty fishy to me. Figure it's the Bush clan, the Mafia - or those peskyTrilat boys behind it? ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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