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Delinquent Admin Fees

We live in a Campestre Community in the north of Armenia. In our 15 year old Condominium Association there are 24 homes. Our monthly Administration Fees are $365,000. I understand that this is a little high, but we enjoy some benefits that other communities do not have like free water & sewer and a low tax strata.

The problem: half of our homeowners are delinquent on their Administration fees. The average delinquency is $4,380,000 and we having increasing problems with making are various monthly pay outs. When I ask, "What are we doing about collecting the fees?" The answer I always get is, "We are working on it." The Administrator has been working on it for 2 years now. Last night I asked the Administrator if the phrase "We are working on it" has the same meaning as, I’ll do it manana." which we all know means "not today." He just sat there and smiled at me.

I want to get the money that is owed to us before waiting for them to sell their house. So my question to the learned folks in here is what can I do to get the money? For example,

** Can I garnish their wages? (In the states this can easily be done through the courts.)?

** What kind of court action can I get a lawyer to take (careful here, all of the lawyers around here knows everyone and is friend with everyone...not to be trusted in my view)?

** Can I go through the courts to seize private property such as their car or their furniture? (I did this in the U.S. and it was the one thing that made people pay their fees.)

Do I call and bring in Uncle Guido from East Orange, New Jersey to have a talk. What can I do?
My plan is to write them each a letter and explain what is going to happen and give them an opportunity to make payment or set up a payment plan. Then we will come to their house each week until they pay. We are also going to turn off the water to their homes. These people are not poor; they all have very nice jobs, drive nice cars, and go on expensive vacations. One has a second home in Key Biscayne and owes over 5mil.

Any ideas from you all would be greatly appreciated. Last week I has to make a Health Insurance payment for one of our security guards because there was no money in our Association bank account. (That is an issue we will take care of later)

Sorry this is so long.

By Rikito on Apr 4, 2009, 16:51 in Friendly Talkzone.

lpdiver says on Apr 4, 2009, 16:57:

Hmmm...that is a tough one. You are the outsider. I doubt that legal actions will get you anywhere (maybe whacked). If you cannot beat them join them!

As long as you have your water, sewer, electricity, what are you losing?

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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La_Huella says on Apr 4, 2009, 17:02:

After somebody is 90 days past due on administration, they are subject to legal action in Colombia under Ley 675 de 2001. The process is very similar to what it would be in the US, which means it's messy and uncertain, but generally once people are 90 days past due a letter from a lawyer lights a fire under them. We have been doing that in our own conjunto and the arrears have been shrinking quite a bit. In any case, if people don't respond to the letter then you will need to go to court to show people you mean business.

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lpdiver says on Apr 4, 2009, 17:33:

For over 105,000,000 pesos I'd get a local to file the papers! I forget, what is the cost of having a gringo whacked in Colombia?

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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La_Huella says on Apr 4, 2009, 17:38:

You couldn't possibly succeed without a good lawyer. Of course a good lawyer would probably take this on a contingency basis.

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 4, 2009, 18:09:

Get it to the point where the lawyers are about to step in and the tenants will be slapped with the legal fees to recover their amounts owing.

Once there's a consequence of not paying, they'll go out of their way to pay, or at least get onto a payment plan.

Give them a deadline date and a final warning sounding letter. Apply a consistent policy to who gets included in the lawyer sweep (for example, more than 60 days behind in total payments, and haven't made any admin payment in the last four weeks). That way you can't be accused of favouritism or selective enforcement.

You should probably wait until after semana santa to send the letter, and get them to sign for the receipt of it if possible.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

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Gator says on Apr 4, 2009, 18:53:

You can file on your own but and I do emphasize the BUT you had best get an attorney. There are many steps needed to make the effort legal (all the I's dotted and the T's crossed) If you get a judgement you can levy on property to collect. Your problem will be determining whose property and to what degree. You can do nothing until there is a final judgment from a court. Personally I would go after the association/administrator since it has the fiduciary duty to collect assesment in arrears. Will you succeed-you pays your money and you takes your chances.The Colombian law provides that the owner and the person occupying the unit, by whatever agreement of title, are jointly and severally liable to the association for any unpaid assessments.

If you want to see the entire mess and why you need an attorney go here ( I got a headache just skimming the damn thing:

http://www.cntv.org.co/cntv_bop/basedoc/ley/2001/ley_0675_2001.html

As La Huella has so kindly pointed out I also see little or no chance of success without an attorney to guide you

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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njc (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 4, 2009, 18:58:

"Our monthly Administration Fees are $365,000. I understand that this is a little high, but we enjoy some benefits that other communities do not have like free water & sewer and a low tax strata."

Oh, boy. I think the first thing that needs to be done is to change this policy. Who was the genius that came up with the idea to pool together everyone's water bill?

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Gator says on Apr 4, 2009, 19:33:

very common

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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miamimike says on Apr 5, 2009, 00:24:

Pooling of the water bill is common here in Miami also. I'm on our Condo Board and its(deadbeat payers) become a huge headache since the real estate meltdown. We send any deliquent owner 60 days past due to the Condo Attorney and he files a Lien. After 45(law change recently here) days we can institute foreclosure preceedings. Forget the Courtesy Letter, we send them out as a reminder but usually to no avail ; that nice guy diplomatic approach doesn't work. After they get threatened with the Lien that starts to get their attention. I deal with the same ethnic group mostly as you do and the only thing that works(and not all the time) is a letter from the Attorney. The Unit owner is reminded they will be responsible for all attorney & court fees.$300 and up. Don't let them string you along, go for the Hard Collection ASAP. Some Condo Associations that have Cable built into the maintenence fee are cutting the Cable to the Deadbeat owners as well as Pool &Rec Privledges. A President we had several years ago used to go to where the AC Units are located on the roof with locked access and he pulled the Fuse Blocks shutting down the Unit and letting the Deadbeats sweat. He usually did this from June to Sept-Hottest months of the year. Highly illegal now but it was very effective way back when. Do that now and you would get shot. These deadbeats don't realize the water, electric, insurance ect are on a due date and you don't pay, they cut off the service. Hammer them legally with a good attorney from the Getgo! Good Luck, your work is cut out for you!

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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miamimike says on Apr 5, 2009, 07:12:

The apartments were converted to condos at the height of a boom that saw prices -- inflated by speculation and fraud -- double within four years, then tumble in the last three. A one-bedroom, 560-square-foot unit that topped out near $200,000 might now get $70,000, leaving owners drowning in debt.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brians--lots of problems with these Condo Conversions, legally and structurally. Also, many recent buyers of Miami Condos got these BS interest only subprime loans for 5 years with NO Down payment so they have little skin in the deal with nothing to loose so they simply walk away after they get the final boot. You wouldn't believe the tricks and scams that have popped up with this past real estate boom. Thank God we didn't allow renters so we didn't have many investors/speculators come into our complex, Miami Beach was really whacked as is depicted in the article.

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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Rikito says on Apr 5, 2009, 07:36:

First, the water thing. The reason our water is free is becasue we sit on a water aquifer and we have a well drilled into the aquifer. One other Campestre here is doing the same thing. But the Campestre owns the pump and water purification site. It's a great deal.

Now the nice guy thing. I think this is almost a requirement. This has been allowed to go on for over two years and we have not been diligent in taking action. The courts around here are people friendly so we need to show that we made some good faith efforts to get the money.

Next, we will use an attorney from Pereira if we need to go to court. (The lawyer fraternity in Armenia is incestuous) But before we send the resident any communication we will use a local attorney to make sure that what we are saying is correct and legal.

Here's my plan (not the Boards ...yet)
1) Send the delinquent resident a demand payment letter. We will give them 30 days to pay, if they pay within 15 days we will deduct 10% from the balance. Again, showing good will to the court.

2) We will go to the residents house an attempt to meet with them to find what the problem is and maybe work out some kind of deal. Goodwill.

3) We will file legal papers in the court. We will use an attorney from Pereira. (The lawyer fraternity in Armenia is nothing less than incestuous)

4) We will send them a final notice letter and remind them that they will owe back Admin fees, legal fees, court fees.

We can't cut off electric and phone stuff since we have no control with the providers. We will advise the resident’s employer, utility companies, employer of the spouse, and the private schools that all 12 delinquent residents send their rotten little kids to.

5) We will notify our security company that the people that come to their house to clean will no longer be allowed to enter the Campestre. No trash pickup and no more lawn maintenance. This is real hard core and may cause some palpitations from the wife.

I will not be doing any of this action...it will be the job of the Board whom are all Colombian

6) Is there any way to garnish wages? This would be big if the wife knew that they will be minus a lot of money each month for a long time.

Anywho, I really appreciate all of your responses. They were helpful and gave me sprit that this can be accomplished. I know it will be difficult, cumbersome, and cause ill will, but as my dad told me won night as he was paying my bail bondsman, "it's your bed rick...you made it and now you have to sleep in it. So if you make a bunch of shit, that's what your are sleepin in."

...and so it goes

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chock says on Apr 5, 2009, 07:53:

first of all, you have to check the administrator had hired a lawyer, if yes, the lawyer can`t take more than six to eight month in the entire procedure, but the first thing I should`ve done is to get the titles seizured (that. that means owner of delinquent houses, can not sell or trade their houses, which for sure are very expensive. but it is a legal right, and once you have seizured the titles, the payment will be satisfied quickly. No one will let his house would auctioned because of administration fees.

If the Administration office have not hired an attorney, yet; you can require them to hired by letter, (also you can suggest one). if they dont hire one in the next month after you requirement, you can go to the office of PROPIEDAD HORIZONTAL o other that the ALCAlDIA must have. But, when you requirement to the administrator, for sure he has to hire one lawyer. nevertheless you can get the lawyers phone and call him by yourself if after 2 months you have not received news about the seizure. (it can`t take more than three month and you can check if the work is done, getting a CERTIFICADO DE LIBERTAD Y TRADICION in the OFICINA DE REGISTRO DE INSTRUMENTOS PUBLICOS in Armenia.)

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honey says on Apr 5, 2009, 08:25:

I like the option of calling uncle Guido...maybe Paulie and Tony too.

Life is what happens when you're busy making plans - John Lennon.

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Rikito says on Apr 5, 2009, 10:12:

thanks for the amo chock.

...and so it goes

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La_Huella says on Apr 5, 2009, 10:30:

Rikito, I'm on the board in my complex, that is basically the exact same plan we are following and we are getting results, so be sure to mention that, and you or they can feel free to contact me via PM if you want any more info.

In our situation it's a little different, we have 5 high rises, 339 apartments and the average administration is about 130k a month :P but I think the principle is the same no matter what.

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Gator says on Apr 5, 2009, 13:42:

Might I suggest, to help out down the line, the failure to act for two years can hurt big time so send all members a letter stating all restrictions, effective immediately, will be strictly enforced and what action will be taken for non-compliance (consult with your attorney first). Otherwise I believe you are on the right track-but it won't happen over night.

"Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare" .

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Rikito says on Apr 5, 2009, 14:39:

Thanks Gator. I thoguht about doing that but put it off for the moment. I think I will have to move this to the front page.

...and so it goes

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 5, 2009, 18:13:

The best Thing you can do is, you have to show them the importance of the property where they live. Tall at the owners meeting. They you will bring more foreign investment to this condo. But it has to work fine and you need the colaboration from all. They often see this money like a expensive payment every month. But ask them how many owers they spent in this Condo. And foreigners will just look for good running condos. Think this way and it will work.

I got the people with this tipe of arguments to put a heater to the pool, It´s an investment in your every day live. We spent much more money in other stupid things that this is much more important for everybody... etc

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lpdiver says on Apr 5, 2009, 19:16:

You say you won't be doing any of this action that it will be handled by the board. Earlier you stated when you inquired about it you just got a smile and no results.

I think you are going to have to get involved...like it or not and accept the consequences. Or continue on the same track

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 5, 2009, 19:19:

Or get a "Cuota extra" for having more cash.

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