decent articles and photos on Colombian conflict

Miguel_Clavo says on May 11, 2006, 14:31:

Excellent Articles, johna!!! i am now a happy subscriber... Once you read/watch the items about landmines and children, i really cant see how any decent person would have anything good to say about FARC and the paras....=(

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 50 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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johna says on May 11, 2006, 16:02:

glad they were interesting Yeah it is really sad to see peoples lives torn apart. The landmine articles are especially disturbing. At least there was some hope in the interview with the displaced man (he built a library for the kids in el barrio) from the Choco. But I agree, no group that uses violence against it's own people can ever be acceptable.

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adrimm says on May 11, 2006, 16:13:

Another good (moving) photo site This is by Jason Howe. He spent some time in Colombia and presents (to my mind) a very balanced view of several sides. Amazing that he was able to get the shots.

The photo essays have lots of thoughtful reflections and sad/unfortunate photos.

http://www.conflictpics.co.uk/

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 11, 2006, 17:56:

adrimm......excellent photos....like they say "a picture is..... is worth a thousand words", which really doesnt do the photos justice....like you say, i am suprised that he had so much access to all the combatants....makes you think just how easy our lives are.....to be faced with that kind of reality every day?? like they say "F at #K Me!"


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo.......faltan 50 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on May 11, 2006, 18:19:

Equal opportunity condemnation... I condemn all four groups who use, or have in the past used, land mines in Colombia.

"The Colombian military says it is no longer sowing mines, but it has an estimated 20,000 in place, defending fixed positions such as barracks and communications infrastructure. Army sources say outlawed insurgents on both the left and right may be sowing 26,000 new devices each year. The two main leftist guerrilla groups and ultraright-wing paramilitaries all routinely lay the devices -- sometimes homemade, sometimes purchased on the international black market, according to Colombian experts."

plátano

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juancegomez says on May 11, 2006, 19:54:

Practical considerations for landmine condemnation -The Colombian military is no longer planting land mines and the government has blown up thousands of landmines previously in storage, in addition to gradually trying to remove the mines planted by all the other armed groups.

-The land mines that the military have in place are in fixed positions that are clearly and openly marked as military bases or dangerous places, such as the above examples acknowledged by the quote.

-This directly clashes with how the guerrillas and paras have planted land mines, and continue to do so, without implementing even the most rational of safety measures or placing warning signs in many occassions. Only the ELN has, at least once, publicly and openly removed some landmines that they are responsible for.

-Therefore, in practice, I can't share platano's "equal opportunity condemnation". Beyond a purely conceptual level, such equal condemnation ends up being very unequal in practice.

Just as, say, the paras get more heat for their proportionally greater % of participation in massacres and political killings (generally and historically speaking), the irregular armed groups get the most of juancegomez's anti-landmine heat, not the Colombian military.

PS: The Hot Zone articles are very interesting and generally well-done, as I've mentioned here earlier.

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platano says on May 11, 2006, 20:59:

Colombia still uses directional fragmentation weapons .... And I still condemn all parties. Colombia still manufactures or purchases landmines.[Interview with Engineer Sergio Rodríguez, Technical Second Manager, INDUMIL, 5 July 2000 and 24 July 2001.] They just call them by a different name now: directional fragmentation weapons. Whether it is an officially sanctioned defense factory that makes a directional fragmentation weapon or a guerrilla homemade landmine, wherever they are placed, whether they are publicized or not, anybody who manufactures or purchases those kinds of weapons, regardless of the name they give them, is responsible for the deaths and mutilations they cause.

Directional fragmentation mines: These weapons are mounted above ground and packed with steel balls or metal fragments. They are detonated by trip wire or remote control. The mines can propel the balls 50 metres. (CBC News Online | October 6, 2003)

Claymore mines (directional fragmentation mines) are legal under the Mine Ban Treaty as long as they are command detonated, and not victim-actuated, or used with a tripwire. States parties that retain Claymores must use them in command detonated mode only. They should also take the technical steps and modifications necessary to ensure command detonation only. Transparency is necessary on Claymore mines, too. Yet, very few of the governments that have submitted Article 7 reports have given any details on Claymore mines or on modification efforts to make these mines compliant under the treaty. (http://hrw.org/landmines/stocks.htm)

From Colombia's Article 7 report we know that, although the military provides information on military demining to the IMSMA database, only in 65 percent of cases does the military provide the Antipersonnel Mine Observatory with geographic coordinates related to its activities. (IMSMA is the Information Management System for Mine Action).

"In May 2005, the media reported that after FARC used mines in the municipality of Argelia, Antioquia, the armed forces cleared access routes for troops. However, they did not mark the demined areas for the benefit of civilians, and they did not clear inhabited areas or civilian roads." (Corporación Jurídica Libertad, “Denuncia Pública,” Medellín, 24 May 2005.)

"En Colombia se han destruido los servicios para la producción de minas antipersonales, pero se sigue fabricando un tipo de artefacto de fragmentación direccional, mientras que los grupos guerrilleros las fabrican de manera artesanal. En el hemisferio occidental, tras la ratificación de Colombia, sólo Estados Unidos y Cuba se negaron a aprobar el texto. [La Convención de Ottawa, 1997] (http://www.ucin.org/antipersonales.htm)

Oh, and for what it's worth I equally condemn the FARC, the ELN, and the paras (and the Army when it collaborates with the paras) for masacres of civilians even though 70% is committed by the paras. It is all terribly atrocious behavior which invites equal condemnation. To say the guerrillas are less guilty because they only masacre 30% of the civilians is ludicrous. They are all guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity as the OP photos show.

plátano

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 07:02:

Practical considerations? Or indecent apathy? Colombia’s treaty-mandated deadline for destruction of all antipersonnel mines in mined areas under its jurisdiction or control is 1 March 2011. While acknowledging that all mines must be destroyed within the timeframe specified by the Mine Ban Treaty, Article 4 of Law 759 of 2002 permits the Ministry of Defense to maintain, until the deadline, mines laid before 1 March 2001 for protection of military bases, as well as energy and communication infrastructure, as long as the areas are appropriately marked to guarantee the safety of the civilian population.

There is still no systematic humanitarian mine clearance underway in Colombia. The Antipersonnel Mine Observatory reports that it has a three-person team for developing standards, producing clearance manuals and implementing the national mine action plan. However, as of March 2005, the team had not received instructions to start developing the systems required to undertake humanitarian demining, including developing cartographic studies that would be used as a baseline for the socioeconomic impact studies, implementing community mine risk education and marking initiatives, and facilitating technical training on humanitarian mine clearance standards. (Landmine Monitor Report, 2005)

Military operations first. People second... as the photos in this OP show.

plátano

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 07:42:

This is disinformation propaganda... Let's do the math... Using the information from the source you cited:

100,000 land mines
$75,000 allocation for removal
$1,000 for each demining
==================
75 landmines removed

Only 99,925 mines to go!

Makes great PR though: We are concerned, we are actually doing something. NOT!

DISCLAIMER: The above calculations assume 100% efficiency and transparency in the distribution of funds through a government program. Actual figures could, theoretically, be much lower if any government inefficiency or corruption is taken into account. Maybe they cleared 8 landmines.

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 07:54:

So what good are video's like these? My main problem with videos like those above, is that it portrays Colombia in a way that 9 out of 10 people believes that it really is. Most Americans think Bogota is like a jungle. All these images portray Colombia as an agrarian third world country that is only a step or two removed from the neanderthal era. This video reinforces such false impressions.

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 08:30:

Good point G5, The image that Colombia is a jungle is widespread. When I lived in Medellin the mayor of New York City proposed bombing Medellin and destroying all its huts to finish the drug business once and for all.
But on the level of morbidity (rubber-necking) I understand the appeal of the photos. Although it is sad to see them used for political purposes. That is why I issued an equal opportunity condemnation of all who have used land mines in the past or continue to manufacture and use land mines in the present, (including euphemistic devices).

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 08:48:

You see Platano Most, if not all the participants on PBH, know that these images are from the parts of Colombia that most of us never see and for the most part, have no interest in visiting (if they have a brain). But, to the average American, and expect the same is true of Europeans, Canadians and alike, those photos could be from just another neighborhood in Bogota or Cali.

To this day, when people think of Colombia, they get their impressions from movies like Romancing the Stone, and Clear and Present Danger. You did not see any Unicentros, or Galerias in those movies. Hence....the images

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johna says on May 12, 2006, 09:06:

Some of the images were from nieghborhoods in Bogota. To think that because there is conflict in el campo, it doesn't effect the modern cities of Colombia is obviously false. Read the interviews with the displaced people living on the outskirts of Bogota. they are just people trying to survive, and apparently getting little sympathy, even from their paisanos. The jungles, cities, plains, mountains, and valleys were all part of Colombia last I checked

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 11:15:

Johna While the jungles, cities, plains, and mountains and..oh yes the valleys are all part of Colombia. From an outsiders perspective, and Platano above agree with me in this respect, most people that don't know a hoot about Colombia, think that %98 of Colombia is exactly that---jungles, plains, mountains and valleys. Trust me. I am a Colombian American and I hear this nonsense all the time. ALL THE TIME. When guy made an interesting observation. He said "Come on man, even the name "Bogota" sounds like it's a part of a jungle..as opposed to a name like "Buenos Aires" or "Santiago."

Another thing. Colombia has a huge coast line. It has beaches, all over the place. Pacific coast. Carribean coast. Atlantic Coast. And the country, from a geographical perspective, being on the most northern tip of South America, should tell you that the country has to have beaches. Yet, when I have told people that Colombia has some beautiful beaches that people travel to from all over the world, they look at me like I don't have a clue of what I am talking about. When people think of Brazil, the whole world thinks of Rio and beaches. The same is true of Mexico. Do you think that when the average person thinks of Colombia, they think of Santa Marta and Cartagena...???
If you do, guess again. They don't. And if you even mention San Andres or Providencia, they never even heard of those places. Bet on it. And remember...I am not talking about Colombians, or non Colombians who have an interest in Colombia for one reason or another.

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juancegomez says on May 12, 2006, 11:49:

platano, even if directional fragmentation weapons are still used, they are used in the way that the articles have described and which I've also mentioned here (if you are referring to mine-like weapons by that, as one assumes you are). That is, in a way that is considerably different from the way that the guerrillas and paras use their mines.

So the "wherever they are placed", "whether they are publicized or not" phrases may sound great in absolute moral terms, but they seem to be at least somewhat inconsiderate and without proportion.

I believe that those two elements do make a difference, both legally and in their practical effects by limiting dangers and damages to civilians, even if you don't take that into consideration in your condemnation. It's your right to defend your opinion, but it's also my right to disagree with it too.

"Oh, and for what it's worth I equally condemn the FARC, the ELN, and the paras (and the Army when it collaborates with the paras) for masacres of civilians even though 70% is committed by the paras."

Equal condemnation is perfectly fine on a conceptual level that is only concerned about absolute morality. Unfortunately, in real life, morality is often relative.

In practice, both legally and otherwise, those differences actually matter when guilt has to be assigned, both in national and international trials, and obviously when the time comes for any and all truth commissions to do their work.

So I'm not saying that the guerrillas are less "morally guilty", because they aren't, in absolute moral terms. On that level, there may be complete equality. But they are proportionally less responsible for certain violations on a factual, practical level, and thus any practical legal condemnation will have to be different (and of course, they'll receive far more condemnation for other illegal activities which the guerrillas are by far monopolizing, or at least numerically dominating).

"There is still no systematic humanitarian mine clearance underway in Colombia."

Indeed, and I fully agree that real efforts should be doubled, tripled or otherwise multiplied in order to create and promote such a program. But that won't erradicate all mines, nor completely resolve the issue either.

Consider that systematic mine planting continues, especially by the irregular armed groups in dangerous unmarked areas that aren't easy to find and clear at all (something which is much easier and safer in properly marked military facilities for obvious reasons), any and all systematic humanitarian mine clearance operations will take at least as long as the conflict lasts...if not actually much longer, as has generally been the case even in countries where, after the conflict is over, mine clearing is still continuing decades after the fact.

Even if, say, a special 50,000 men taskforce was employed to systematically clear up any and all mines in Colombia, their work will never end, if the conflict doesn't.

"Military operations first. People second... as the photos in this OP show."

That sounds great in theory, from a point of view of pacifism and absolute morality. And it's a valid point of view that I'd love to share, but I can't always do that.

Unfortunately, I've realized that in real life morality is often relative, whether we like it or not.

As long as wars continue, the military operations of all parties will tend to be more important than the people. That's been common during humanity's several thousand year long history.

However, I still believe that the specific harm done by each armed group in each particular kind of activity has to be taken into consideration when condemnations are to be issued.

Call that "indecent apathy" if you want, if you think that the role of absolute moral judge suits you.

Me? I'm not assuming that role, only presenting one opinion and the practical considerations that I'm concerned about.

I will only say that a general, generic condemnation that also results in no change isn't really that different either, in practice. I could say "I agree with you" and that wouldn't make any difference.

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Colombiche says on May 12, 2006, 12:12:

My main problem with videos l My main problem with videos like those above, is that it portrays Colombia in a way that 9 out of 10 people believes that it really is. Most Americans think Bogota is like a jungle. All these images portray Colombia as an agrarian third world country that is only a step or two removed from the neanderthal era. This video reinforces such false impressions.

Wow, gomez, I'm impressed. I though you were going to comment on how true these images are and the colombian cheering squad wants to neglect these.

These photos are excruciating, and this is the reality for many colombians. Most of these pictures were taken in Putumayo. This is probably what the guys at my work picture ALL OF colombia is like.. a Mr&Mrs Smith type of jungle.

A lot of people in colombia do lead normal lives, but don't tell them that, they won't believe it anyway.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 12:24:

Well Colombiche Ya see, there is hope for me yet.

I only hope Juanalejo happens to catch that post. He's a member (charter member)of the cheering squad, so maybe he will give me a modicum of hope.

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 12:47:

"...practical considerations that I'm concerned about" What practical considerations? There is a team of experts willing and able to work with Colombia, if invited to do so. The only practical consideration I see is the cost of a piece of paper, an envelope, and and stamp. If that is the hold up, then I will personally pay for it.

But Colombia does not act when such action would prevent future children from becoming maimed for life. That I consider "indecent apathy" or, perhaps, official indecent hypocrisy.

There are no practical considerations that impede starting the process.

"The Antipersonnel Mine Observatory reports that it has a three-person team for developing standards, producing clearance manuals and implementing the national mine action plan. However, as of March 2005, the team had not received instructions to start developing the systems required to undertake humanitarian demining, including developing cartographic studies that would be used as a baseline for the socioeconomic impact studies, implementing community mine risk education and marking initiatives, and facilitating technical training on humanitarian mine clearance standards." (Landmine Monitor Report, 2005)

plátano

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juancegomez says on May 12, 2006, 13:15:

Note that I never claimed the opposite I have never, ever said or implied that there are "practical considerations that impede starting the process".

I was mostly talking about considerations surrounding the issue of condemnation per se and its practical implications.

But, in fact, something else that I've already said is this:

"Indeed, and I fully agree that real efforts should be doubled, tripled or otherwise multiplied in order to create and promote such a program. But that won't erradicate all mines, nor completely resolve the issue either."

Which is something that means that I'm not at all opposed to the proposal you are mentioning, just pointing out its physical limits.

"But Colombia does not act when such action would prevent future children from becoming maimed for life. That I consider "indecent apathy" or, perhaps, official indecent hypocrisy."

Again, I definitely agree with "acting", I really do, so I don't see where such apathy may apply here (beyond the practical fact that I can't resolve the issue myself, just as you cannot either). And I also agree with criticizing the fact that promoting any systematic anti-landmine action has been limited to little or nothinng. I am not arguing with that at all.

But I'm also pointing out something that seems obvious too, as painful as it may be to openly accept it: We are in a war and the continuin existence and multiplication of landmines is directly tied to it.

All anti-landmine operations, which I welcome, would reduce the chances of that happening and the number of future children that would become maimed for life (in a % that I can't be preemptively calculating with any accuracy, due to all the factors involved, beyond money). That's certainly worthwhile and I support taking such action.

But, and this is important, it would never prevent that from happening at all, due to the continuing nature of the threat, especially that represented by unmarked irregular landmines in unknown areas, as long as the conflict lasts and even beyond its end.

That in no way, shape or form means that I'm somehow opposed to inviting a team of experts or multiplying financing and resources for anti-landmine operations.

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johna says on May 12, 2006, 15:50:

Ok so there are beaches (sorry I left that one out earlier) and modern cities that alot of people don't think about when they hear the word Colombia, but to focus only on that to try to improve the countries image is dishonest. Yes there are beaches and modern cities and nice nieghborhoods, but there are also the areas that these videos show. All I am saying is that they are both part of the country. And I would even argue that all countries have problems, that they wish the outside world wouldn't focus on. You can't do anything about what other people are or aren't willing to learn. Prejudices go pretty deep on all sides. All you can do is try to be fair and honest and not create propaganda based on your personal beliefs, which is what I think these pieces are trying to be. If you watched the video, he starts off in Bogota talking about what a nice, modern, beautiful city it is. He ends the piece by talking about how much of an opportunity Col. has to move forward and leave some of its problems in the past. That said I understand your frustration with the prejudices most people carry toward Colombia.

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 16:18:

Still photos are poor representations of rural reality... Still photos, even good ones, are poor representations of Colombian rural reality...
A still photo is a static, framed, visual instant that, by the fact of what it leaves out, distorts reality. You don't see what is to the right or left of the frame, nor above, nor below. There are no smells, there are no sounds, you cannot feel the sun or rain or a gentle breeze on the skin. And those are just the physical distortions.

The other part of rural Colombia a photo does not convey are the intangible beauties, the inner reality of Colombians (and not just their happiness, either). Without going to the rural areas you will miss so much by just looking at photos. You will miss the living breathing relationships full of love, the hopes and dreams, the intelligence, and the thoughts and the wisdom that reside in the people of rural Colombia. You will miss the rural hospitality, yes, and the happiness, the "malicia india," the wonderful ways Colombians caress the Spanish language, the smell of the earth, the beautiful landscapes that photography cannot do justice to, the winks and gestures, the incredible sense of humor, and you will miss all the other intangible ways rural Colombians express their love and their soulfulness... ways that are simply not available in a still photo.

Moral of the story: get out of the contaminated, noisy, crowded cities... visit places like Risaralda and breathe some fresh air and meet a different Colombia. I recommend Mistrató, one of the most beautiful "cities" in Colombia. Then go a little further into rural Colombia to San Antonio del Chamí, so spectacularly beautiful, a place where I left part of my heart, on the banks of Rio San Juan, where Risaralda meets Chocó.

plátano

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johna says on May 12, 2006, 16:57:

There were also videos and articles to read. Not just still photos. I personally like still photos as a medium of information, you know the saying a picture is worth a thousand words, but you are correct in that pictures only hit upon one sense. I will definitely try to get to the places you have recommended. I have a question though, is it safe (just kidding;)?. Thanks

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 17:06:

No, it is not safe... travel at your own risk... low profile... En las zonas rurales de los municipios de Pueblo Rico y Mistrató los grupos guerrilleros han tenido una fuerte presencia, lo cual ha generado de manera indirecta relaciones de coexistencia con los habitantes de estas zonas, especialmente con la raza indígena. Desde el año de 1998 la guerrilla ha realizando tomas violentas y hostigamientos a los municipios de Mistrató, Pueblo Rico, Guatita y a los corregimientos de San Antonio del Chamí, Santa Cecilia, Santana, San Lorenzo, Bonafond e Irra.

plátano

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johna says on May 12, 2006, 17:50:

Ok no voy a ir. Donde fuiste cuando el FARC sequestarte? Yo recuerdo que tu dijiste eso en una otra "thread". Lo siento por la bromisa mala :(

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platano says on May 12, 2006, 18:06:

Tú tranquis, parce... Estuve yo en Medellín saliendo de mi casa para caminar a mi trabajo cuando me secuestraron. En las ciudades tambien hay riesgos.
:(

plátano

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adrimm says on May 12, 2006, 18:27:

Thanks Miguel "adrimm......excellent photos....like they say "a picture is.....
is worth a thousand words", which really doesnt do the photos justice....like you say, i am suprised that he had so much access to all the combatants...."

Yes, I'm glad I posted the link. I actually had an opportunity to meet the photographer while I was in Bogota last time. An interesting person, extraordinarily laid-back and relaxed, but he's got to be a little crazy to put himself in such positions. I mean it only takes one gun-happy person on any side finding out where he went...

He's planning to put out a book. I'm torn about getting it.

On one hand it is another formal picture of the troubles that Colombia is already known for (while so many of the wonderful things about Colombia are rarely formally acknowledged by foreign press, writers).....on the other hand.. it is the best representation of the conflict I've seen.

Complex, tragic, barbaric, and human.

www.conflictpics.co.uk

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