Dads a loser ...can he be made to support his child

bufalo says on Jul 31, 2007, 20:39:

Not trying to be a dick, but:

welcome to Colombia, she's pregnant, but still getting f'ed. This is a constant down here. from what I know it is really hard/expensive for the DNA test. (not so if you pay).


Just another hit & run. the only hope is if the guy has any serious money and she threatens to tell his wife. Not that his wife will actually care/do something if she does so, but I do know some women here that have done that with some results.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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scotty says on Jul 31, 2007, 21:14:

Number one the father of this child is a loser with a capital L, men like this make me sick they are not a man.
Number two when are these women in Colombia gonna wake up and smell the coffee, they need to also take some responsibility and be more selective in their men and their actions.
Number three a DNA test isnt going to help in Colombia, here in the States it can make all the difference in the world but in Colombia it is hell trying to even get the man to take a DNA test and once he finally takes the test its hell trying to get him to pay.
Number four doesnt this girl have any familia to help her and her little one?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jul 31, 2007, 21:43:

Jinks, i'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope everything works out for her.

I was wondering if you might have heard about the Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) ?

They offer training and assistance to single mothers in Colombia. The mother is enrolled in an 8 week course and is then assisted in obtaining employment.

There is a lot more information about ADRA in this article:

http://www.interamerica.org/users/index.php?type=news&id=886&language=...


I hope you find this helpful.


Timefor.

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miamimike says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:04:

Seen this happen to 3 women I know in Bogota-once the women got Pregs, it was hasta la vista for the Papi. Here in Miami, a good friend of mine, a Cubana, was deserted by the Husband. He immigrated to Canada like 7 years ago and once in Canada he asked for permission to bring his Wife and 2 childre. This took like 4 years and when the Wife finally arrived with the 2 Kids, She was greeted at the Calgary Airport by the Husband and his new woman, a Peruana who was 6 months Pregnant. The Husband payed for 2 months Rent for her and the 2 Kids and was never seen again. Deserted his Wife and Kids in a strange foreign Land with hardly any money, food, support, ect. One has to wonder how could anyone do this but there all kinds of Schmucks in the world. Now the Ex-wife moved to Miami and says she will never get involved with another Cubano or Latino ever again.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Carlotica says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:12:

timefor I am wondering - if he took off as soon as she found out she was pregnant, how come she decide to continue with the pregnancy if she has no means to suppor herself or even her future little one. Not, that I am completely for abortion, but in a situation like this - wouldn't it be better - i don't know I am not informed about laws about this topic in Colombia currently either, so - just wondering....

Salsera!!!... de por vida =>

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scotty says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:15:

I know a woman in Cali that has been trying to get assistance from her sons father for years, she did everything, went to court, talked to the judge, took a DNA test, did it all...still no money or help from the boys father.
they just dont enforce the law in Colombia, they tell the man he has to pay but thats as far as it goes.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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miamimike says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:18:

Scotty--That Col Law has no teeth for all Practical purposes! I wish I had a dime for every abondoned woman and her children who get no child support!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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jinksmiester says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:19:

timefor...thanks for the info...i was unaware of this relief agency and i will certainly pass it along to this lady.
She does have family but they have been of no help to her at all...last i heard she 1 shirt as clothing for her baby and thats all.Ive taken the liberty of sending 300 bucks to my wifes family and they are going to shop for some nessecitys for the baby...its not a lot but it should at least buy some clothing...perhaps a matress and bath tub etc ..
Regardless of wether the father helps or not ill try to help out as i can to see this little one gets the basics it needs.Im sure storys like this are all to familiar in colombia and as far as making the father pay i did,nt hold out much hope on that.Id like to give the father of this child an ass kick,n...thats what he needs,but in the event i do encounter him in the very least im going to ask him how he can treat his newborn child like a piece of garbage and ask if he likes what he see,s when he looks in the mirror.When i see the mother and picture her soo with her newborn it makes me angry when i think of this guy.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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goin_south says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:24:

Jeeez; let's start a Pay-pal account, and pass the collection plate.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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jinksmiester says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:36:

lencol-I will help her at least try to go after this guy...at she may get something out of him.
Its too bad that he has to be forced to do the right thing and try and help out.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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jinksmiester says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:44:

No she does know who the father is...so do i as met him...and when i did i thought he was an idiot...(this confirms my observation).
She is not the kind of lady who bounces around from one guy to the next...she was with him for about a year. Theres no question who the father is.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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timeforachangeofscenery says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:53:

carlotica,

i'm not sure how the law stands now but as of june last year the law stated:

Abortion is only permitted in three cases - if the mother's life is in danger, if the foetus is badly deformed or if the pregnancy results from rape.

timefor.

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goin_south says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:59:

"Theres no question who the father is."

Yeah, but remember......many times,
TRUTH.... is stranger then Fiction.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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gabolicious says on Aug 1, 2007, 06:36:

a DNA test? to prove what???
I am really sorry that your friend has to deal with this situation Jinks but I mean, if you're willing to help this lady out, I will say that you should not waste your money on a DNA test...I think it is worthless...

I dare to say that with that money you can buy some other things for the baby... that guy (the father) is a f*** ass**** and with a DNA test or without it he will not accept the child...

I think it's better to help the lady to find a job or something, women are very strong and I am sure she is gonna make it with some help from her friends (like you, for example).

I don't want to judge this lady but sometimes women think that a man will stay with them forever if they get pregnant... and that sometimes doesn't work...

Elección no canonización....

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slguy says on Aug 1, 2007, 07:35:

Jinks,
If you spotted this guy for "an idiot" when you met him- where's your friend's brain? I hate to soundd cold, but geez, sometimes people get what they deserve. What ever happened to "want a baby? show me a ring, and we'll talk about it!".

Having said that- I feel for both her and the baby. If you wind up setting up a paypal or some other type of account for her- count me in.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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droble77 says on Aug 1, 2007, 08:23:

All too common a tale. And sometimes it's just as bad if the guy does stay around to help support the kids. Many Colombian women from the lower estratas get slapped around or generally treated like s*** from their marinovios.

So be careful what you ask for jinksmiester. It is also just as common a scenario that the woman doesn't want the father to stay around as she simply tires of his BS, infidelity, or the way he treats her/the kids.

Also, many of these loser type guys end up dead at an early age. At lot of these delinquent men simply end up killing each other. That, in addition to the low-intensity guerilla war, is why the female-to-male ratio is somewhat skewed in this country.

One girl I made out with had a typical story: 24 yrs old, 2 kids, the father shot dead after trying to steal a motorcycle. I felt sorry for her, but I didn't go beyond a make-out because I didn't want to give her expectations that I was going to be her "principe azul."

So I'd warn you to be careful what you're getting into. It's admirable that you feel sorry for this lady and want to help but the old adage "no good deed goes unpunished" applies especially in developing countries like Colombia and these type of women. This lady might end up becoming a burden to you, when she realizes where the gravy train is going to come from.

And she might never learn: chances are, she'll repeat the EXACT same error with novio # 2 !!

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 1, 2007, 10:25:

Here are a series of posts that I put on the pre-switch site that didn't show up here. I am reposting them because they are hopefully usefull to jink and others.

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ColombianoGringo says on Tuesday July 31st, 2007 23:54:

My wife had do pro bono(?) work during her last few semesters of law school in Colombia. A lot of the cases were mothers suing deadbeats for child support. Sadly, even when they manage to get a court order, the fathers often don't pay or pay very sporadically.

What is particularly sad is that some of these guys make pretty good money for the region. That department has a lot of oil production so some of these assholes are making $2.000.000 COP a month and don't want to pay $50.000 in child support. They won't pay the equivalent of 25 lousy bucks out of a thousand. Some of these jerks came in to get free legal help in reducing their payments while hiding most of their income.

The US had a lot of similar problems until they got tough on enforcement, but it wasn't all that long ago. It's time for the Colombian government to step up, but sadly, I am sure it is low on their list of priorities.

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ColombianoGringo says on Tuesday July 31st, 2007 23:59:

Having said that, I forgot to mention that most law schools should have similar programs. The place is called a "consultorio" and they can get decent, free legal help from upper level students. All the cases are supervised by actual attorneys so they should be handled done correctly.

Have her contact any local universities that have a law school. They should be sadly familiar with this type of case and can hopefully help her. I am not familiar with universities in Barranquilla, but I am sure someone around here is.

Good luck and thanks for helping her out.

CG

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ColombianoGringo says on Wednesday August 1st, 2007 10:23:

jink,

I asked my wife for some more info about this. Here is what she said.

Once the baby is born, the mother can go to either a university "consultorio" or she can go to "Bienestar Familiar" which can also help her. They will help guide her through the legal process of requesting support.

If the guy denies being the father, he can request a paternity test. This would be cost about $700.000 COP. If he denies it and turns out to be the father, he is liable for that cost. If it turns out that he is not the father, then the mother will have to pay that amount.

If he accepts or is proven to be the father, she will most likely get a judgment for some level of support although it will likely be very low. She did not estimate, but there are plenty of cases where a mother gets $100.000 COP a month or less for more than one kid. She should not expect to get a whole lot. Finally, it is pretty likely that the guy will not pay. She has legal recourses, but they don't seem to be very well enforced.

In any case, have her call or go to one of the places I suggested and they can give her much more detailed advice.

Peace,
CG

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 1, 2007, 10:27:

I guess I could have fixed the typos in the originals. Oh well. Edit button anyone?

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 1, 2007, 12:31:

You said it's in Barranquilla, right?

I bet Elmo's cab driver nephew knows a more effective way to get the guy to pay up than wasting time on DNA tests and court cases.

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bufalo says on Aug 1, 2007, 13:52:

Jinks, you said there is no doubt who the father is, let me say again "welcome to Colombia" Most of the people here I know aren't exactly sure who their father is. I've known several "nice" women here who aren't 100% as to the father.

One of the many "poor" kids down here.................... and the cycle continues!

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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jinksmiester says on Aug 1, 2007, 15:14:

It was no doubt a stupid thing for her to get pregnant by this guy. I met this guy when they were together about the time she got pregnant.My understanding is that he said he would try to help out initially and since then wants nothing to do with her.
This guy has since moved on to anouther lady which will probably end up in the same situation.The mother did a stupid thing ....the father is a loser,the only one innocent in it all is the new born.Never the less the mother at least cares about this child which is a lot more than i can say about the father ....I think chasing after him to help out would probably be a waist of time.
I will try to help her out a bit for now...with the condition bieng that she tries to inprove her own life.I will send her to this relief agency timefor has mentioned to start with.I will help on the condition that she helps herself, meaning she trys after the baby is born to find work.
Im a sucker for chidren...can,t see letting them suffer....but i don,t think thats a bad thing.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 1, 2007, 21:13:

From the original post, it sounds like the kid is due any day and it might be too late for an abortion.

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jinksmiester says on Aug 1, 2007, 21:42:

Way too late...baby could be here anyday....thank you CG for the info you posted...it may come in handy.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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morphus says on Aug 1, 2007, 21:59:

She can always become a hooker. Hey, its legal in Colombia. Why not?

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gabolicious says on Aug 2, 2007, 05:24:

"Never the less the mother at least cares about this child " I agree with you Jinks, the best way to help this lady is to give her the meanings to improve her own life...

As the saying goes : "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."

Elección no canonización....

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fernan2007 says on Aug 2, 2007, 12:59:

QUIEN LA MANDA A ABRIR LAS PATAS?

porra

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 2, 2007, 14:21:

Lo mismo se podría decir de la que pario un mamón como usted.

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gabolicious says on Aug 2, 2007, 14:41:

fernan2007 juzgar a una persona como lo ha hecho usted es verdaderamente ESTUPIDO!

Elección no canonización....

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jinksmiester says on Aug 2, 2007, 15:23:

No es el echo de abrir a no las patas como lo dice usted...el acho es que no es justo para un nino venir al mundo sin el apoyo emocional o ya sea oconomico de un padre...
y hablo por la persona que esta que esta pasando por esto, por que se que no queria traer al mundo un nino mas sin padre.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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msaucey says on Aug 2, 2007, 15:24:

Jinks... Good for you for stepping in... I'm glad that your heart is big enough to help a women is distress... There are quite a few dead beat dads in Colombia.... That's why there's also a lot of kids up for adoption in Colombia... Sad but true....

Where is the troll alert....??? Peter.... fernan2007... troll.... okay, maybe not a troll... But definately a jerk....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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gabolicious says on Aug 2, 2007, 18:49:

sí, Jinks como dijo msaucey esta señora habrá considerado darlo en adopción?... mirá que los niños son los que vienen a pagar el plato roto de los adultos, son los que más sufren, ahora dependerá de la madre el tipo de vida que pueda o quiera dar al niño.

Jinks, me alegra saber que esta mujer encontró un apoyo como el que usted le ha brindado.

Si hay algo en lo que pueda ayudar, por favor mándeme un mensaje bueno?

Elección no canonización....

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jinksmiester says on Aug 2, 2007, 18:59:

My familia in barranquilla recieved money i sent and took her shopping ...got a matress,diapers,blankets,clothing,soaps shampoo bath tub etc...everything she needs for the baby.Im sure she apreciates it and my feelings are that the money went to good cause.
She has been worried sick as she had absoloutly nothing and no help or money.
They said today she was very happy and unable to stop smiling...instead of worring herself sick perhaps she can relax a little now knowing her newborn will be okay. And i myself will feel better knowing that as well.I will meet the little one in jan when my wife and i visit.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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vicshere says on Aug 2, 2007, 19:04:

jink be prepared for more hand outs....you will become a bread winner for her if you don't watch it...it will now be twice as hard to say no the second time

listo

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jinksmiester says on Aug 2, 2007, 19:11:

gabolicious no... la senora que esta en embarazo, en ningun momento ha pensado en dar el bebe en adopcion... se por que la conosco que va hacer todo a su alcance para que el bebe este muy bien. lo unico es que ahora esta pasando por una situacion muy critica, por que no tiene trabajo y se que mejor madre que ella no hay.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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jinksmiester says on Aug 2, 2007, 19:23:

No vic..i won,t fall into that trap.I told her that im happy to help out but its not my responsibility.It sounds as though she may have a job lined up after the baby is born.I can and will say no.I don,t mind helping out but i won,t be abused by a problem that i did not create and is not mine.I will try to help her help herself then she is on her own.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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vicshere says on Aug 2, 2007, 19:27:

I know jink but let me tell you Colombians have a way of asking for help they are pros at it ....I have been on the receiving end a few times but have hardened up over the years...hope you will have the will power ..its tough to say no to a crying mother and crying baby tears me apart

listo

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jinksmiester says on Aug 2, 2007, 19:39:

Ya...i get ya...have to grit my teeth and walk away from that....she is gonna have to help herself...somehow she survived before i came along...so she can and will have do that again....but i don,t think she will ask...she did,nt ask this time ..it is a gift from me for her newborn...i just heard of her prediciment through others and decided it was the right thing.Unless i see real suffering or malnutrition this bank is closed.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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scotty says on Aug 3, 2007, 03:05:

MM you're right no teeth. they go through the motions, stamp all the papers but nothing gets done, no enforcement.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Aug 3, 2007, 03:07:

Rubito an abortion isnt in order she is 8 months pregant. whats in order if for this punk ass man to step up to the plate and take care of that baby.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Aug 3, 2007, 03:11:

jinks you are a good man to help, good for you, you have a good heart. you are also wise in your plan to help her help herself. you are right thats your best bet help get her started in a job or training for a career or something so she can be self sufficient.
you are a good guy jink.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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fernan2007 says on Aug 3, 2007, 09:35:

colombian gringo...no venga a mentar madre aca...porque se va poner feo esto...quedese en houston y siga disfrutando de los tacos y la musica ranchera.

porra

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 3, 2007, 09:56:

Uy que miedo. Pues entonces no venga a insultar a una mujer que usted ni conoce. Si no tiene nada constructivo que agregar, entonces no venga a desparramar la mierda que fluye de su jeta.

Y en cuanto a quedarme en Houston, tampoco puedo complacerlo. Ni un pendejo como usted ni nadie me va mantener fuera de MI Colombia. Encima de eso, aquí se disfrutan arepas, empanadas, bandejas paisas, arequipe y todas las otras cosas ricas de la comida Colombiana. Y los tacos también son ricos.

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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2007, 10:03:

man you guys kill me with this spanish

listo

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lpdiver says on Aug 3, 2007, 10:39:

I noticed that when my wife went to DAS to get her work permit renewed (I forget what they call it) that every so often some guy would get called into the back. I was told that probably it was because he owed child support payments.

Of course this would no work if the father wasn't working or was working under the table.

t

"cook some rice!"

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fernan2007 says on Aug 3, 2007, 11:00:

el que insulta aca eres tu cara de marica....lo que dije de la mujer esa tal ves fue un error porque no se todo el cuento...,..y siga aburrido en houston, que ya me lo conosco desafortunadamente.

porra

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 3, 2007, 11:22:

"lo que dije de la mujer esa tal ves fue un error porque no se todo el cuento"

Eso no fue lo que usted dijo. Todos aquí estábamos tratando de dar consejos útiles para Jink. En esas, llega usted con el comentario de que para que abre las patas. Si espera ser recibido con respeto, no venga echando pestes de alguien quien ni conoce.

Y aunque tiene razón de que Houston no es la ciudad mas emocionante, aquí hay una economía que hace posible ganar mucho billete. Me quedo viviendo aquí por el momento porque aquí tengo mis empresas y aquí viven mis hijos. Y aunque no sigo con la madre, no estoy dispuesto a largarme a otro lugar y dejar a mis hijos sin contacto con su padre, ya que no soy una mierda como el tipo que embarazo a esta chica y la dejo plantada. Eso se llama ser responsable, algo que demasiados hombres en Colombia no tienen idea como hacer.

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 3, 2007, 11:23:

Joder. Si que estamos necesitados de un opción para editar los comentarios. Ya que usted reconoce que dijo una mamada, me disculpo por haber hablado de su madre.

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fernan2007 says on Aug 3, 2007, 11:50:

ok...todo bien ..y tambien ofresco mi disculpas....voy a medir mis comentarios para el futuro.
And for anybody that’s trying to figure what the heck we are posting about, it was just about a negative comment that I had made earlier and I am just taking it back

porra

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ColombianoGringo says on Aug 3, 2007, 15:06:

By pure coincidence, I just noticed this article in El Tiempo.

http://www.eltiempo.com/politica/2007-08-03/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

The gist of it is that a new law is being debated which would allow the government to do a "nocturnal arrest" for fathers who do not meet their obligations with regards to child support. It seems to mean that they would be incarcerated in the evenings and allowed to go to work during the day. I guess this is like a work-release program of sorts. Also, any deadbeat dad would lose their driver's license if they didn't need it for work. The final part of the proposed legislation would direct Bienestar Familiar to pay support when the father is financially incapable.

Looks like this could be a huge step in the right direction. However, I would withhold celebrating until the thing is passed and actually implemented and enforced.

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vicshere says on Aug 3, 2007, 15:09:

your right sure sounds like a step in the right direction....now what about a father with back support for like 13 years do we get to hang the stupid asshole...sounds like a lot more fun

listo

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jinksmiester says on Aug 3, 2007, 15:48:

CG...it definitly sounds like a step in the right direction....hopefully they will do more than just debate it.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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jinksmiester says on Aug 3, 2007, 16:22:

I found out today that the father of this soon to be new born NOW has anouther lady knocked up.Somehow i doubt he will give this new one any more respect than the last one.
These woman need to get some brains, and this walking waist of a foreskin needs to be neutered apparently.Its hard to believe the stupidity of some people.What possible worth can a man like this be.The world would be a lot better place without these types of ...(well) ..the only word i can think of is garbage.I used to casterate pigs and cattle on my fathers farm...i wonder if im out of practice and how rusty the old blade is.Just kidding..but realistically thats what he needs.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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slguy says on Aug 3, 2007, 19:33:

I hate to say it- but the women who fall for this guy aren't toooo far escaped from the Darwin Award, either....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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droble77 says on Aug 6, 2007, 09:20:

"I found out today that the father of this soon to be new born NOW has anouther lady knocked up.Somehow i doubt he will give this new one any more respect than the last one.
These woman need to get some brains. . . Its hard to believe the stupidity of some people."

LMAO, wasn't I trying to tell you about this? The situation you described, including the new details, is 100% ordinary in Colombia. Another common scenario is the kids being taken care of by mom, but having different fathers, mom might not even be 100% sure who the father is/was!!

And as slguy implies, there's plenty of blame to go around, it takes two to tango. ;-)

As for what possible worth he can be, maybe he's got a nice look that attracts the girls plus he's a good dancer and bulls***er. Those are pretty valuable skills in any country, especially in Colombia. :))

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webmanco says on Aug 6, 2007, 11:05:

Bienvenido fernan2007. Single mothers had the right to try and have another try at finding "truly love", I must confirm that some single mother´s are prone to do the same mistake all over again, wether it be with a Local or foreigner.

I tend to think as ColombianoGringo, not to leave kids with the father figure. But as the saying, "no puedo decir de este agua no bebere".

I just heard a saying that rang a bell.

"quién quiere a la vaca quiere al ternero"

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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jinksmiester says on Aug 6, 2007, 23:37:

If a man is worth anything he would not walk away on a child he fathered....mabee thats old fashioned thinking...but thats the way i feel.Bieng a father means bieng involved with your children...not just sending money because your forced to.I would never desert a child i helped concieve.. not financially or personally.
As far as loads of single mothers and children who don,t know who there father is...well i know there is plenty of that in colombia.And the woman are just as at fault as the men when it comes to concieving them ....what i don,t understand is the lack of caring about any future at all for a child that is brought into the world.How a person can just walk away and not care if the child they created ends up dead in a trash can.
A dog might run around humping every other dog in the country leaving a string of puppys all over the place.I exspect more out people.It would be a good thing if colombia got there act together and made people accountable and responsible to take care of children they create.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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goin_south says on Aug 12, 2007, 23:54:

old chinese proverb: betta to grow up fuckyup, than not grow up atall
I mean, our parents could have snuffed us, eh, Rubi?

(No, no...no... we don't have the same parents, believe, people!)

But/And, then we'd never have KNOWN LIFE ON PBsH! Imagine that.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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goin_south says on Aug 12, 2007, 23:55:

Imagine .......That !

;)

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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jinksmiester says on Aug 13, 2007, 07:38:

Im not against abortion...i think thats a personal decision ..and perhaps the right one in some cases...i don,t feel its for me to judge.
Anouther chinese proverb....confusios say...man with hole in pocket feel cockey all day.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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