Daddy won't let go

Gator says on Sep 23, 2005, 15:19:

Almost None. You might try for a family court(Colombian) order. Other than that DAS or, in all probability, the airline will refuse exit and transportation..

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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BAQ says on Sep 23, 2005, 15:27:

try this I don't know your exact situation so this is GENERAL, but if your novia thinks it will work (she should know the guy pretty good)consider trying this, have your novia tell the father "OK, I am going to America, if you won;t let him go, then YOU are responsible for him", see what that does. Given the LACK of support a majority of these Colombian fathers seem to show for their children, chances are he will cave in.

OTHER OPTION IS TO BUY HIM OFF, OFFER HIM SOME $$$ FOR RELEASING THE CHILD.

If I was in your shoes, honestly that is what I would try

Semper Fidelis !

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bobbyb says on Sep 23, 2005, 15:43:

what's the going rate for a little 5 y.o. colombiana?

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adrimm says on Sep 23, 2005, 15:57:

Perhaps a guarantee of Annual Visits If he has stuck around to be somewhat involved with his child, then I don't blame him for resisting to give permission.

Seriously from his POV it may as well be the moon that you are trying to take her away to.

What are the chances of this guy being a) able to afford regular trips to the states and b) the chances of getting a tourism Visa, so he can travel to see his kid?

The offer of just giving him permanent custody might just turn on you and bite back. His POV: Let's see 1) Lose my kid forever, or 2) Raise her myself?

One of my male cousins had a little girl with his GF. When she was about 2 her mom decided she didn't want her anymore, and left her with my cousin. Guess what? He's a pretty responsible guy, and with help from my aunt and uncle they have done well. He got married a few years back, and his wife had no problem taking in the little girl (6 at the time).

So maybe you should consider some sort of a binding agreement that she will be taken to Colombia once a year so she can visit with her Dad. After all it is her Dad.

I have seen a few comments here from disgruntled dads whose kids "were taken away" by nasty exes, I'm surprised that none of you have chimed in with this possibility to explain his resistance. Guess its different when someone else's ex is your fiancee.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 23, 2005, 15:58:

Is he listed as the father? on any of the daughter's birth certificates or colombian passport? If not, then why bother with permission?

Otherwise, it's time to play hardball like BAQ suggests.

It wouldn't be the first time a Colombiano saw a chance to squeeze a gringo out of some money.

But extortion opportunities aside, put yourself in his shoes. Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that the father isn't a deadbeat (at least in his eyes) and actually cares about his daughter, maybe he's just a little pissed that his "ex" is planning to run off and essentially kidnap his little girl. (at 5, they are still pretty damn cute). Having been in a similar situation (ex-wife wanted to run off with the kids to be with out-of-state boyfriend), I fought like hell to keep my kids so I can relate.

Assuming this isn't just an extortion attempt, AND he's listed as the daughter's father on all the paperwork, you best bet for the kid and the parents is to try and have your novia "make nice" with the dad and reassure him that he can still talk to his daughter by phone, that you'll plan to return with her to Colombia to visit occasionally, you'll send photos, etc.

For as much as you love your novia, it is really unfair to the child to put her in the middle of some big, nasty custody fight. So for the little girl's sake, if not everyone elses, if you can make this happen amicably, it'll be worth the trouble.

The last thing you want is a pissed-off Colombiano who's had a year or two to plan your "welcome party" for when you go back to visit the family.

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bobbyb says on Sep 23, 2005, 16:18:

I see both sides I raised my daughter by myself and I feel for both sides, but both of the parents can't come to an agreement. I'm not sure what to do other than what is best for the child.

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viewpoint says on Sep 23, 2005, 17:32:

C4C is correct if the fathers name is not on the birth certificate he has no ability to stop the child from exiting Colombia short of bringing an action through Bienestar Familiar which is the same option the mother would have if the father is listed on the birth certificate. My step-son has no father listed on his birth certificate and his mother last names are his last names. We have never ever been asked for anything but a copy of the birth cerificate which lists no father.

I am a dot all the I's and cross all the T's but sometimes money is the only solution to to problem like this. If he is listed on the birth certificate I would fund the cost of bringing a complaint seeking an order and make the process costly for the other party offering in time a settlement with visitation rights and maybe agreeing to fund part or all of the airfare once a year for them to visit.

In the end you may have to put something on the table as you must put yourself in the position of the father. You wouldn't give up partial custody or visitation of your daughter or son if some new husband married your ex-girlfriend and they were moving to another country thousands of miles away of which you had no visa or chance to get one to visit your daughter.

If I was the father I would fight with my last dying breath.

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bobbyb says on Sep 23, 2005, 17:43:

his name is listed on the birth certificate

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viewpoint says on Sep 23, 2005, 17:53:

Then the child will never be allowed to exit without the fathers consent or a order from the court. Your options are pursing the matter legally and hoping that some settlement can be reached. Personally I would offer to enter into an agreement allowing him reasonable visitation during the summer school vacation if he's (and his family) a responsible parent and fund the transportation costs.

The transporation can be timed during normal visits to the country. There's always a solution to every problem and most problems can be solved by both parties being reasonable. You will find a reasonable solution to this problem and spending money usually helps.

I friend of mine had this problem with a woman that he married from Cali. But he was married in Cali (not just a GF) and finally worked out an arrangement that satified the father of his new wifes daughter whereby he was guaranteed visitation rights after she reached a certain age. The truth was that this man never even hardly visited his daughter when she began returning to Cali for the required visitation. The friend of mine was an asst, attorney general of the US government who was visiting Cali for spanish language training and fell in love with the woman.

Without the father's consent your girlfriend couldn't legally take her daughter (regardless of your relationship) across the border to Ecuador, Venezuela or Panama. She can't take her out of Colombia without the other parents consent or a court order.

Good Luck !!! I know one thing the best part of my relationship has been my stepson who was worth every bit of the struggle to get him here. His mother drives us both crazy (for 6.5 years).

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 23, 2005, 21:15:

Agreed I totally agree with Viewpoint. Don't look for a sneaky way around this, look for a way for the mother and father to come to a reasonable agreement that works for all 3 parties involved (never forget the girl has the biggest stake in this). I don't know your GF from a hole in the head but I can see how it would be really easy if not bound by a formal agreement to just start a new life and forget about the father. "Oops, we forgot to visit you for 10 years!" But would that be the best thing for the daughter?

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BAQ says on Sep 23, 2005, 23:26:

DON'T Yes, you DO NOT want to try and just "Take" the child, there are international laws and agreements between countries regarding "Parental kidnapping".

He might actually CARE about the child but I can;t help but think (from what I have seen here with other so called "Fathers") this might be a spite/machismo thing. HONESTLY, I have never seen a father here who was separated or divorced from the mother who cared. When I say CARED, I mean as far as supporting the child financially. I have no doubt there is a sentimental attachment with these "Fathers" but that seems to be where it STOPS. Once the mother wants/needs money for health care, cloths, food, school these guys seem to DISAPPEAR with their new novias.

On the flip side of this issue, the guys who STAY with their wife and kids seem to be some of the most caring guys I have ever seen. Doesn;t seem to be any middle ground, either they care very deeply or don;t give a shit at all.

Semper Fidelis !

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vladimiro says on Sep 23, 2005, 23:43:

Does the child have the father's last name? If the child does not have the father's appellido there is no problem taking her out of the country. I know of a similar situation in which the father was listed on the baptismal record with the father's last name. The mother got the father's name removed from the baptismal record(which is practically like a birth certificate in Colombia) very easily and cheaply through a lawyer. Then she used the new baptismal document to get a new registro(I think she had to take her father or other witness with her). Then after getting a passport for the child with only the mother's name on it, she had to go to the notaria for a document saying she could take the kid out of the country. What I am not sure about is whether the child's father was listed on the original registro.

A Colombian lawyer can give you advice on this for no charge.

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viewpoint says on Sep 24, 2005, 05:39:

Vladimiro The only way that way that the court could possibly remove a fathers name from the birth certificate is that the father failed to appear in court and was defaulted or that after taking a blood test (dna) the results confirmed he was not the father. No Colombian court is going to remove the fathers name from a birth certificate if he appears in court and submits to a DNA test confirming that he is father of the child.

The Colombian legal system might have a little bit of the wild west but it's not that uncivilized. In the case you mentioned I'm sure that the father was served and never appeared in court. The failure to appear was grounds for the court to enter the order.

I admit that this is a creative idea worth considering. A father trying a escape his financial child support obligations might simple fail to appear in some cases but a "real" caring father will sumbit to a DNA test confirming that he is the father.

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Gator says on Sep 24, 2005, 07:40:

Colombia requires that minors (under 18), regardless of nationality, who are traveling alone, with one parent or with a third party, present a copy of their birth certificate and written authorization from the absent parent(s) or legal guardian, specifically granting permission to travel alone, with one parent or with a third party. When a parent is deceased, a notarized copy of the death certificate is required in lieu of the written authorization. If documents are prepared in the United States, the authorization and the birth certificate must be translated into Spanish and notarized. An "apostille" must then be affixed to the document by the designated state government authority. If documents are prepared in Colombia, only notarization by a Colombian notary is required. A permission letter prepared outside of Colombia is valid for 90 days. A permission letter prepared in Colombia is valid for 60 days.

Avianca and other airlines also REQUIRE this document before boarding is allowed along with a passport. I agree with Vladimiro. This really required consultation with an attorney.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bobbyb says on Sep 26, 2005, 09:59:

Written authorization If I can get these 2 people to work something out without a lawyer, what type of document would they need? Is there a standard form or does anyone have a sample document of the father agreeing to let the child leave Colombia.
Also:
If the child is living here, will the father have an easier time getting a visa himself so that he can visit the child?

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CaryGrant says on Sep 26, 2005, 18:16:

bobbyb My soon-to-be wife must also get such a paper from her ex-bf, even though he left the country some time after his daughter was born and stayed away 9 years. (As BAQ said....) Fortunately, he has said he will provide this letter. My wife and he will go to the Notario together to draught up the letter - not sure if the Notario has such a letter or whether my wife will have to create one. My point is, the letter will have to be notarized to mean anything, so I suggest having your gf visit a Notario. Don't forget to have it officially translated, in case the US gov't or a US airline wants to see it in English.

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bobbyb says on Sep 26, 2005, 18:38:

Thanks Cary I'm still working on this so I'm not sure how it's gonna play out. The guy is not involved in the kids life. I think he is either looking for some money or is just trying to control her.

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Gator says on Sep 26, 2005, 18:44:

Generally Like ThisTTranslate into Spanish or do Both (I or we) authorize the minor child _________________________________________________________

with passport number ________________________ issued by ________________

on ____ / ____ / ____ and being born in ______________________________ on ____ / ____ / ____

to travel on any occasion to and within the territory of _____________________________________
as well as to return to the country of residence, unaccompanied or under the responsibility of

____________________________________________________ of ______________________ nationality

and residing at ________________________________________________________________________

with passport number _____________________ issued by __________________

on ____ / ____ / ____ and being born in _____________________________ on ____ / ____ / ____

and being the legal or birth ___________________________________________ of the minor child.

Signed ___________________________ on ____ / ____ / ____







Notary Public signature and seal below

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bobbyb says on Sep 26, 2005, 19:05:

Thanks Gator! you're a good boy!

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bobbyb says on Sep 29, 2005, 07:58:

Passport for child I may know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway. Does the 5 year old child need her own passport? or will she be included on the Moms'?
Also, how can I find out the record and reputation of a lawyer in Colombia? (Pereira) Is there an equivilent to the ABA? Thanks

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 29, 2005, 09:30:

yes... yes, the child needs a Colombian passport. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure she'll need it for the interview so it can get a K-2 visa to go with her K-1.

Fortunately, I don't think it's a big deal to get a Colombian passport.

Don't know about the lawyer thing, though.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 29, 2005, 11:37:

You are absolutely right, Crazy4Cali.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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WidowerfromCanada says on Sep 29, 2005, 15:57:

bobbyb Bobby,

Gary Bala is a highly respected american lawyer who might be able to introduce you to a Good Colombian Lawyer he trusts........ Gary does a lot of Biz in Colombia for Americans with Visa issues....

UTC might know his email ?

He posts on Planet Love http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/ and here sometimes.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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big kugz says on Sep 30, 2005, 11:51:

You ever thought You ever think about moving to Colombia??? This may be what's best for all parties involved and if you really love your girlfriend then it shouldn't be that big of a problem right?

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bobbyb says on Sep 30, 2005, 14:35:

In the future I will probably give Colombia a shot. But this is the best way for now.
Gator. I found an excellent permission to travel form on the Philipine Embassy site

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bobbyb says on Oct 5, 2005, 16:19:

he's not gonna let go My girl friend is telling me that she needs the father to sign a document stating that she is not abandoning the child. Otherwise if she leaves and then returns to colombia for custody, with a lawyer, he can say that she has abandoned the child. I say, that because I applied for a visa for the child, and the father refused, that, that is evidence enough to counter his claim. On top of that he wants money to sign the statement. What's the colombian law on this? It seems like a catch 22

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Crazy4Cali says on Oct 5, 2005, 16:56:

I hate to say it... I hate to say it but you might have to slow down, if not fall back and regroup.

Sometimes the guys is just looking to extort money, maybe he actually cares for the child and is truely upset and worried about his child, either way, it doesn't matter.

Until this matter is resolved you're going to have nothing but hassles that, in the end, the child will suffer. Resolution may come in the form of:

a) paying whatever he wants (and then paying each time you want to return to the country)

b) having your fiance "make nice" and get permission that way (though that could take a while if they are really that upset with each other) Maybe get a relative or other third party down there to do some negotiating to help smooth things over

c) go for the long, legal battle where everyone ends up pissed off at everyone else...and you're out a lot of money

d) worse case (and the harshest) is to just give her up. That's a bitter pill, but it could be the only viable option, if the father is really stubborn and determined. Remember, he's really the one holding the cards.

It's hard to tell from a distance (through the internet as well), but maybe the guy just doesn't know what his ex is up to and getting to know him might calm him down enough (of course it could just piss him off more, who knows).

Either way, my opinion is that things are likely to take longer then you originally planned. Good luck with whatever you choose.

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bobbyb says on Oct 5, 2005, 17:22:

I looked at it from all those angles She has too, she is going to give the child to the father and come here by herself. She is trying to protect herself against being accused of child abandoment. Hence the statement from the father saying she is not abandoning the child, but simply going to the states to marry, she is going to return to fight in court. My question is : does she need his statement to show that she is not abandoning the child? There has got to be some other form of evidence to show that she has not abandoned the child, but simply that the father refuses to let the child go. I got 3 prices from 3 different lawyers there. $1,100 to $1,500 and 3 months time in court. I offered the dad $750 and I would pay half of the kids ticket to colombia once a year. He said no. I figure it's cheaper with the lawyer. So that's the way I would like to go. He lives in Santa Marta and never sees the kid in Pereria. I told her to give him the child now and by the time her interview rolls around, oct 21, he'll be ready to give her back. If not we go to court.

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Gator says on Oct 5, 2005, 19:27:

Head For Family Court... she can simply sign temporary custody to the father-best done through court. I don't believe a "visit" with the father would constitute abandonment so your other plan may work.

You state, "I told her to give him the child now and by the time her interview rolls around, Oct 21..." Interview for what. Does she have a visa now?

I really think you need an attorney NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bobbyb says on Oct 5, 2005, 19:57:

her K1 visa interview is Oct 21 if she gives the child to the dad now I think he'll get tired of it and ask her to take the kid back. I maybe wrong but she is running out of time and options. She believes that she needs the father to sign a document stating that she is not abandoning the child. I don't belive that. I'll run it by her about giving the Dad temporary custody until she returns for court. I see the logic in that. That maybe the answer until she gets back. Thanks Gator! You know so much!

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cobra says on Oct 5, 2005, 21:27:

AOS interview We just recived the appointment date for adjustment of status and need to know what kind of questions we are going to be asked and how long the interview is. What's next after the interview? just wait for the green card? Thanks in advance for your help!

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Gator says on Oct 5, 2005, 22:26:

It Will Not.... last long, maybe fifteen minutes. Questions will be general like when did you met where do you work, do you go to movies. If everything looks like it is a legitimate marriage it will not last long. But, if a fraud is expected, you will likely be separated and the questions could become personal. Seriously if everything is one the up and up don't worry. While mine was a long time ago and in Miami we were treated courteously and the "green"card came in about four weeks.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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