Curious about living costs

bufalo says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:03:

50K a year, owning your own place and living in Colombia should be no problem, you could even trim off 10-20K and send it to me, even every other year if you want to.

Some things to consider. Since they are far away from where you are now, how well do you know Colombia and your wife's family? I have seen the bringing up of children to be quite different here than in the US or other places.

Relax colombianos and those gringos who defend it so much with blinders on, I see the raising of children here to be obth good and bad, look at the word "different" before you write something.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Brians says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:12:

Appreciated I am extremely comfortable with her family. I have only known them for 1 1/2 years but I have extremely close Colombian friends near me in the USA. They have known her family for years as they are neighbors. Her family is upper strata and fine with whatever we decide. The raising of the children was such an important aspect of my decision to marry her. I watched closely how they interact and have discussed every possible question of her expectations. We are 100% in agreement. Obviously there will be disagreements but that is expected in any relationship. Anyway I guess I don't want to be the poor gringo of the family:) I do want good things for our family. I just want to assume I can't generate any income at all (although I will try to find something).

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aztec says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:47:

gringoinbogota "OK so then you will need to raise the kids in the best schools and live in an estrata 6 in order to keep the peace and not end up divorced. $500? Nope. Change that to $5,000 a month"

Agree except if you really want to travel in the country club set the monthly expenses can be over $6000 a month. In addition, to purchase a membership can be expensive.

On the other hand if you prefer strata 4, living expenses can be very reasonable. Just be sure that is what you want.

Follow the advice:"You need to come for a very long visit before moving here."

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bostonmickey says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:47:

Go for an extended visit If you are financially secure in taking 6 months off and living comfortably on savings, then take the 6 months and see how you like it. 50K sounds like a lot, but it depends on where you are living? Are you in the bigger cities? the coast? or some little countryside?
I was in Cali from 93-2000 and 35K was comfortable for us, but we did not live extravagantly by any stretch of the imagination. If you plan on living there without working, then prepare yourself for this semi-retirement phase; it can be brutal if you are in unfamiliar surroundings--what are you going to with yourself? I'm sure that there are many opportunities to start up something, but take it all in before you jump into the deep end.

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Brians says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:50:

Thanks Gringoinbogota that is the kind of answer I was looking for. I don't have to worry about keeping the peace as she and I are not that focused on money or strata. She says she would work but I just want to assume neither of us can. So $3,000 a month is doable on our end. However I think I would feel more comfortable with some wiggle room i.e. I want to come home once a year to see firends and that is a couple of thousand. I think We might wait a year or two before making this decision but I think the information is helpful for us to make decisions. She really has never lived on her own in Medellin and I feel her understanding of the costs are limited. As far as spending a long time there I agree but am really not that worried. I am very adaptable and understand the culturale differences. I have no real family ties here and homesickness is not ever an issue. I pretty much understand what I am getting into and realize this will not be like a vacation. However from a lifestyle stand point I work 70- hour weeks here and the stress will put me in a grave before I am 50. As long as I know I can get by I am pretty sure in time I will find a way to make income. My idea was to wait two more years and acquire 2 rental properies first. Then we would have that along with the $50,000 coming in and no overhead. Thank might be the best breathing room.

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Crazy4Cali says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:51:

I dunno... My wife seems much happier to raise her daughter in the U.S. than in Colombia.

Living in Colombia has a certain exotic charm and I can also imagine that your new wife might be having a mild case of homesickness after being in the U.S. for a short while. All I'm saying is that "all is not gold that glitters." You might want to think about an extended visit before making it permanent.

As far as raising kids down there, from what I've seen, their standards of raising kids are what I remember from the 50's and 60's. Corporal punishment is not uncommon. I'm not saying that all this new-age liberal crap they have here in the U.S. is a good thing, but I also don't think beating your children healthy either.

I also find a bit troubling some of the racist and classist attitudes that seem to be accepted as normal in Colombia when it comes to an environment in which to raise my kids. Diversity and equal-rights are still just words in Colombia. It bothers me that women have to send a head-shot and resume for a secretarial job, for example.

As an adult, I can dismiss that and I have the perspective to see it for what it is. As a child, it could, at the very least, be confusing.

Bottom line, I can appreciate the sense of family and how important it is for children to have an extended family, but I think the disadvantages of living in Colombia outweigh those advantages.

That's just my view from the cheap seats.

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Blue says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:51:

Ask her family if they would rather be living somewhere else. Ask some people that live there what it's like to be obsessed with security issues.

Blue

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Brians says on Apr 18, 2006, 06:58:

Thanks Crazy4cali Appreciated and understood but raising the kids is not the issue. Traveling is not the issue either. The issue is can I make this work on the $50,000. I think I can but feel it is better to put off a couple of years and this information is great to discuss with my wife. I know I am a business man and will find a way to make $$ in Colombia but I want to assume I can't. The semi-retirement thing is definately not me. I just want to turn down the speed in my life to slow. Then even if I couldn't find anything I would be happy going to the gym and sitting with the kids all day and sending her to work:)

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Crazy4Cali says on Apr 18, 2006, 07:19:

I guess I missed the point... If the only real issue is whether or not you can survive on $50K/yr, the answer is probably "yes" since many (i.e. the vast majority of) Colombia manages to do that. The only remaining question would be What adjustments to your lifestyle you'll need to make?

But, at the risk of sounding like GringoInBogota, I'd be a little nervous in Colombia if I was down there in your position. Once the locals found out that you're living happily in Colombia on $50K/yr (and they will figure this out by talking to your neighbors and watching where you live and what you buy) you'll be ripe for a kidnapping. Living in estrato 3/4 on what looks like $12-20K might keep you under the radar, but, and this is just my view from the cheap seats, moving on up and being the "Gringo who can live in Colombia without a job" would mean there must be something that would make a kidnapping worthwhile. Especially if one of the bank tellers who handles the funds transfer for one of your rental houses has a boyfriend with, shall we say, shady connections.

There are no secrets in Colombia.

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Brians says on Apr 18, 2006, 07:24:

All great points... I think you would have to know my wife and her family story to understand her and this is really not the forum for it. However a lot of her extended family aunts and uncles cousins all live in strata 4. She was even raised in strata 4 until she was 14 and feels comfortable there. She really doesn't even want to live in Poblado. However I am partial to it. I visit the ohter stratas all the time to see her family and have no problem with it. I just like Poblado. As far as getting dragged into the strata thing that is not a concern. However I think you are right about the extendd visit and I think I am now leaning towards waiting a couple of more years. She will be fine with it. Our goals are the same I just keep reminding her we need to make a financial decision not emotional. She fully understands and says whatever I feel the most comfortable is fine.

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Brians says on Apr 18, 2006, 07:53:

Actually the kidnapping thing is something that concerns me. However life is full of risks. I am not naive and keep my business private. Her mother is the only person in her family outside my wife that even knows where I work. However as Crazy points out this is something that gets more difficult to hide being there 24/7. I have to weigh those risks with the decision and factor it in. Being out of my element so to speak is a definate concern. However her other side of the family her father's side is extremely wealthy. Her father passed away 25 years ago. They do not and have never supported her mother but I have spoken to them quite extensivily as they are always at risk to kidnapping. It is a daily concern to them but they live with it as I would have to.

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Crazy4Cali says on Apr 18, 2006, 08:50:

Hiding... I'm not sure it's possible to hide anything in Colombia for very long. People talk...and talk and talk and that's just around the neighborhood. What complicates things is when people who, in the United States would keep things confidential, also talk and gossip. In the U.S. you can trust the Postal Service, the Banking System, etc. to not play fast and loose with your personal information. In Colombia? Maybe as far as you can throw them. It's a completely different set of rules (or absence of rules) down there.

If I were you, I'd hang out a while in the 'hood before bringing any large sums of money. I would think you'd want to know who you can trust and how far before increasing your risk exposure.

But that's just me talkin'.

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Gator says on Apr 18, 2006, 08:50:

From Experience... more than adequate. We live in an Estrato 6 area of carrera 7 and calle 74, BUT the apartmento was purchased before the prices in Los Rosales really took off. We bought so Mrs. Gator would be close to downtown and some relatives. But we never go downtown. If I ever sold I would move further out to the Santa Barbara area or even north of that. Prices drop big time and every shopping amenity is handy. Nothing wrong with an estrado 4/5-remember the higher the estrado the more expensive taxes, utilities and rent/purchase become. Best bet, IMHO is to follow the advice of some others and come for and extended stay of a least one year. We love Colombia and Bogotá but IT IS NOT THE UNITED STATES. Best you be sure before you make the leap.

"SIC FRIATUR CRUSTUM DULCE. OBESA CANTAVIT."

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bufalo says on Apr 18, 2006, 20:20:

I'd take another read at what Crazy4Cali said about raising kids here in Colombia. It isn't a big deal for you now, but when they come and you are all settled in and then start looking around? My wife and I are seriously looking to maybe pick up and move back tot he states due mostly because we have a three-year old girl. When she is 14 do we want 30-50 year old men hitting on her? Completely normal down here. do we want her own cousins hitting on her? Same, normal. Here it isn't a big deal for students to date their own teachers. Not university students mind you but school kids. There are other positives raising kids here, but I'm not sure if they win over the negatives.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Rubiazo says on Apr 19, 2006, 01:34:

I feel the opposite I think a kid will be much happier in Colombia than in the USA IN GENERAL. Colombia is actually set up with kids in mind, whereas in the USA they are an afterthought. Not to mention it's so much easier to afford a quality education for them!

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haji says on Apr 19, 2006, 05:05:

well We live in estrata 5,house is paid for but for 5 people to live here costs 2000,usd a month,Thats utilities,food and maid.Extras another 1000.00usd thats gas,car insurance,eating out andf trips.
Schools LOL get out your wallet''this casn be very expensive,deposit,monthly payment,and supplies.Which include toilet paper and cleaning supplies.More than what one person would use go figure.
PLease come stay first and see what you are getting into.It is not as cheap as what people say.good luck

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bufalo says on Apr 19, 2006, 16:52:

I used to laugh when I saw on the tele "Colombia, un país para los niños" What a crock of shit.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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corazon en colombia says on May 23, 2006, 18:21:

Wait a minute! Did you say, house is paid for and you still are spending $3,000 dollars a month. I spend less than that in the states, with a house payment. That can't be right!

Colombia = paradiso

Colombia = paradiso

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miamimike says on May 23, 2006, 18:45:

Welcome to PBH I question that $3000 figure also. Thats way more then I spend monthly to live in Miami! LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Brians says on May 24, 2006, 05:26:

I don't think so Taxes, School, food, gas, electricity, vacations, etc.. Actually I think it is pretty accurate. However with the Peso crashing lately it might change.

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robi666 says on May 27, 2006, 11:47:

Yes Brian, pretty accurate.
3000 - 4000 USD is enough for a good lifestyle in Poblado. Pay for Taxes, School, food, gas, electricity, vacations, etc... Real Estate in USA or Europe is a safe investment.
But for being sure about future? I mean, sure to maintain the same lifestyle 3000 USD can give you nowadays? Think if the situation here gets better. Minimum salary grows. Prices grows. On the long run (10 years? 20 years?), living price will get near to the one in USA or Europe?
So, why don't put something like 100.000 - 150.000 USD in good properties in Medellin? Like 3 small apartments, easy to rent or resell. They will not give you much now (6000 - 9000 USD per year), but what in the long run?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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LDW says on May 27, 2006, 12:57:

Comments on what has been posted so far I think the most important piece of advice is from GIB, where he suggested that any foreigner living there do all they can to live below the radar screen. Live modestly!! Don’t drive a car!! Don’t go there with the fanciful dream that you can live in the lap of luxury, with no visible means of support, and not attract attention!! Maybe you should even propagate the story that you have failed in a North American business venture and are obliged to live in Colombia on a modest pension. That modest pension really ought to be the only money (if any at all) that is handled by a Colombian bank. If somebody is going to retire, or semi-retire, in Colombia, it is critical that the local banking system be used as little as possible. The notion of a bank teller blabbing about the amount of cash that is wired to your Colombian account each month is not an unreal threat. You would be well advised that you have an internet connection, or at least have access to one, with which you could bank on line back in Canada or the United States. Arrangements could be made with your bank or broker to wire money to a North American bank account from which things like credit card payments could be done on line.

Brians…maybe you have serious reasons for thinking that doing business there is an option for you. Speaking for myself, I would not dream of it. I would not want to be in a situation in which I, as a foreigner, would be handling large sums of money. Besides, I have been in business a long time in Canada. I would want to be in Colombia to escape entirely the stress of running my own business.

In this thread, I have seen some interesting figures suggested as a probable cost of living. I suppose many of the numbers posted presuppose that one is living in a city and/or is raising a family (making school cost an issue) there. I have assessed the probable cost of living in a retirement situation there. My wife comes from a very nice rural area where I have always felt safe (people don’t even lock their doors!!). The two of us could cover our basic day to day living costs there on $1,000 per month very easily. School cost for children is not an issue for us, as they have grown and are on their own. Money for other goodies, such as travel, would not even touch the banking system there (see suggestion about on line banking above). The only money any local bank would ever see there (if any at all!!) would be our monthly Canada Pension Plan cheques to cover our day to day living costs, which for the two us would total less than $1,000 Canadian each month.

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Rubiazo says on May 28, 2006, 17:09:

BPWAH I could easily live in Bogota on $500 USD a month, NO PROBLEM! I really don't know what you all spend it on! I guess I'm just not that materialistic.

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dagui says on Jul 19, 2006, 06:27:

INTERESTED in same While I haven´t read all the posts here,I also have desires to relocate one day.Actually my colombian wife feels or says california is preferrable,and of cousre our 10year old also friends ect..I,ve been off and on reasearched and asked in-laws here and they say 2500 is very doable. research schools +o- 300$ per child.Cali is cheaper and i guess other cities tambien.obviously one must check your steady income ,where,how but to live normal usa style 2500 is good for colombia. And if ya got familiy here try livin with them for a few month if its possible to get a feel.it,s just tryin to line up all your duckies.chao good luck

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corazon en colombia says on Jul 19, 2006, 14:37:

Cost of living How much you live on depends very much on your comfort level and "extras." It also varies a lot from city to city. It is possible to live on much less. Most Colombians make much, much less than 50,000USD a year! They rent, eat, and send kids to school. What is normal USA style anyway? An SUV? Expensive clothes? A brand new house with granite countertops and top of the line appliances? I think the best way to know how much it is going to cost is to ask family members/friends who live a comparable life-style to the one you will be living what it costs them. 50,000 sounds like more than enough to live off of in Colombia, actually you could live off less and give some away to organizations working to help those who have less.

Colombia = paradiso

Colombia = paradiso

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jinkssick says on Jul 19, 2006, 18:42:

my thoughts Your family would be happier in Colombia, that is the bottom line. but there are some issues that need coverage. Have you thought out all the posibilities, because a 3 week break to Colombia spending 300,000 a week is very diferently to having to spend that amount for your 6montly food budget. How will you cope? The heat and the torment of alienation can kill anyone, regardless how nice Colombia people are. Moderation I think is key, so you would be wise to do things in your spare time, wether it be working part time or educating your spanish.

Teaching english is not too far off an idea but love for teaching is necessary. Think about it throughly. I believe investing in a property in the US, long procedure, but gaining some sort of income will be a plus.

Always remember, your heading from the worst hole to the best exit, Colombia is beautiful (crime has plummeted so thats a plus for gringos) and the currency will always be of a lower value to your saved USD's, so basically its a done deal.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 19, 2006, 21:50:

wtf happened to this thread? I had just posted
Median wage in the USA is what, something like $31k a year. at least 25% of that is GONE due to taxes. You are looking at taking home a $1000 paycheck twice a month here on a median salary. Which means HALF the USA is making this OR LESS. And yet somehow you need more than $2k USD to survive IN COLOMBIA where the median wage is at most 1/4 of what it is here! Methinks that somebody doesn't have any 'calculo' maybe too much 'culo' and not enough 'cal'!

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miamimike says on Jul 19, 2006, 23:04:

Rubiazo, I agree with you on that.. I mean here in Miami I live on way less then $1000/monthly. Granted my Condo and Car is payed for and I don't hit 5 star eateries or South Beach and $5-$7 Beers or $8 Mojitos. I certainly feel as a Single without extravagent tastes I could do at LEAST as well in Bogota.....

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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freddie says on Jul 20, 2006, 02:32:

strata thing? please can anyone help me, because i dont understand the strata system you are talking about. is it a special bogota thing?
how about teaching german in colombia? maybe i like to go there one day.
not only for lying in the sun. i know a woman who wants me to come and i think i like to do so.
thanks freddie

Bitter ist die Geduld, aber ihre Frucht ist süss

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 20, 2006, 02:53:

Advice This will probably be a little bit more controversial, but i think its true. If you decided to move to a big city like bogota, chances are you might be able to keep a low profile even if you live in strata 6. I live in Santa Barbara and I dont even know who my neighbors are, they dont care who I am either...In cities like Cali and Medellin, people are more friendly, neighbors know neighbors, maids know maids and so on and so forth, thats how many kidnapping and burglar stories begin. I do believe you can live comfortably, without having to give up on things you have in the states. Having a car doesnt put you on the radar, as long as it isnt a hugeass SUV...Getting a VW, Mazda and Renault is always a good option, public transport in colombia is not reliable and if you get on a bus, look very gringo and happen to be wearing a watch, chances are you are most likely to get mugged or robbed than on a normal road in your middle class car. Getting a maid nowadays is always a risk, my advice would be get a decent sized flat in a strata 6 area you can tidy up on your own, own one small sized car and dont have a maid...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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aztec says on Jul 20, 2006, 05:23:

freddie strata thing? Search this site. There has been much discussion on the subject.

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miamimike says on Jul 20, 2006, 07:18:

In Bogota I would never own a car I feel it attracts attention and I have used Public transportation extensively in Bogota with great luck. Not to mention the worry about what if I get into wreck or if I park it and some thief breaks in and robs it, as it often happens in Bogota. Since I am there to relax, I am not on some rigid schedule so a few minutes late on the Bus doesn't matter. If I need to get there on time I use one of the many Taxis. They are so cheap anyways. Friends(2) of mine (rolos) got their Cars taken at Red Light in North Bogota(at gunpoint) so NO thanks. They had nondescript, non luxury Nissans and Toyotas. One of these incidents was by the Clinica de Santa Fe, a reletively nice area by the Santa Barbara mall BTW. Another expense and worry I don't need...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2006, 11:13:

What are you guys TALKING about in Bogota in rush hour the ONLY quick way to get around is on the TM. Are you all seriously sniffing something? And yes it's WAY safer than either taxis or your own car IMO, on every level. I don't think there's a single city in the USA OR Canada that has public transport at the level Bogota does. Unless you live somewhere really remote, you'd have to be NUTS not to use it!

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freddie says on Jul 20, 2006, 13:34:

i like to read yours but dont understand all. freddie

Bitter ist die Geduld, aber ihre Frucht ist süss

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