Cuba verses Colombia...

guacharaca says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:27:

Keep in mind, the Colombian people are different in different parts of the country. They talk, walk and dance different. Natives of San Andreas and Providencia are totally different again (including language).

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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Colombiche says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:40:

I'm off to Cuba in a few days. Although I have a room in a resort and I do hope to spend some time vedging in the sun (God I neeeeed it), I am usually the kind of tourist who goes off the beaten path. Wherever I go, I do a pretty decent job blending in with the locals.

I feel uncomfortable lying around letting cubanos spoil me and serve my firstworldized colombian arse.

I am going to spend most of my time out of the hotel, in the real Cuba, we are renting a car in Varadero and exploring as much of the island as much as we can. Matanzas, Pinar del Rio...)

You seem Cuba savvy so please shoot some recommendations my way Terry!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:44:

I think if you are going to compare colombianos to cubanos, you should compare them to costenos. Costenos in general are good dancers, more vallenato than salsa, whistl cubanos are salseros, it's in their blood. Calenos are pretty decent dancers too, as are some paisas.

The average rolo can't dance to save his life, but there are some out there who can. :)

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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RJQuilla says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:47:

Try the Carnaval time in Colombia. I did this year in the Barrios of Barranquilla....the Rum was flowing, music pumping and dancing going late into the nite.

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tomtom33 says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:48:

I have one recommendation: bring Cipro. In two weeks in Cuba I got horrible food poisoning twice. Once was from the breakfast buffet at the Havana Riviera on the malecon.

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Colombiche says on Dec 20, 2007, 14:50:

I am pretty resistant to food poisoning, growing up in Colombia and drinking upasteurized milk in our cartago finca lol. I drank tap water in Santo Domingo and didn't even feel remotely queasy. Of course, you never know, I actually got food poisoning once in bogota of all places.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 20, 2007, 15:24:

guacharaca & Colombiche: I am well aware of the vast differences between different areas in Colombia, and I know what you're saying about costenos, but my (slightly tongue-in-cheek) point stands: The shittiest dancer in Cuba can blow a good dancer in Colombia right off the dance floor. Except for the very best dance clubs in the country (where, lets face it, everyone is excellent) the general level of expertise can't compare to Cuba, and I really missed that.

Every single Cuban can dance. SOME Colombians in SOME parts of the country under SOME circumstances aren't bad. Jejeje... Colombiche, you'll see what I mean when you escape the tourist ghetto that is Varadero and get out into the campo. You're going to have a riot. (Check your messages. I sent you a few suggestions.)

RJQuilla: I did Barranquilla Carnival last February. It was a totally insane blast, and I loved every minute of it. Too bad a tiny little bit of that uninhibitedness isn’t more prevalent in day-to-day Colombian culture like it is in Cuba. (This is not in any way a slam on Colombians, it's just an observation.)

Cheers,
Terry

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guacharaca says on Dec 20, 2007, 15:43:

I have seen some Cubanos dance and they were very good. Within my limited observations, the Cuban rhythm and dance had more African heritage than that of even the Costenos in Colombia. I have not been to Cuba yet. I certainly intend to explore it soon.

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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Colombiche says on Dec 20, 2007, 15:45:

Thanks Terry, I will go and check my messages!!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Dec 20, 2007, 15:53:

Wow Terry, just had a look at the messages you sent me, that has to be the most comprehensive, off the beaten path Cuba guide I have ever seen... you are the man!!

Thanks!!

C

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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David Pristupa says on Dec 20, 2007, 16:05:

Terry you had an interesting experience.
I spent part of the summer in Laredo
Texas. I had a fascination for Tex Mex
culture. Laredo is a fascinating city at
least the downtown. Although it might
Not interest most tourists it is worth
Checking out. It has a lot of the wild west
personality. I have a lot of stories to
tell. It did not dissapoint. The downside
was the people. They were very cliqueish
and did not mix with strangers period. I
was expecting a culture more outgoing.
On the otherhand the people were generally much better dressed than other
North Americans. There wasn't a feeling
of confrontation and intrusion that is
characteristic of Canadian and Anglo American culture. Being surrounded extroverts can be very irritating after
awhile.

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 20, 2007, 16:11:

Colombiche: You’re welcome.

David: Whatever you’re drinking, please order me a case, thanks.

Cheers,
Terry

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morphus says on Dec 20, 2007, 17:54:

Hey Terry, how you been? Your old buddy "Sadist" here...lol. I agree about the dancing and partying but what did you expect? Cubans have more time to dance and party because work in Cuba does'nt make economic sense right now. They also don't want to sit in the house watching Fidel and Chavez on its 2 channels all night. Ok, once in a while they'll show an American movie but how many times can you watch Jaws? Colombians have to work real jobs during the week and therefore can't party every night. They have cable TV, internet and some money to spend.

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bartolo_colon says on Dec 20, 2007, 18:38:

Ha, nice post Terry, I think I have to agree with all of your observations. I spent a month in Havana a few years back, for the first 3 weeks there I didnt see the city once in the daylight, , partied till dawn, and usually woke about sunset, my girlfriend thought I might be a vampire, so did I. Those people can dance, I mean its ridiculous. I spent New Years, with my girlfriends family, everybody dancing up a storm on the porch, from the little kids to the grandparents, they could all dance circles around my gringo ass...They all seem to drink copious amounts of government rum, we would go to these little windows, a guy would fill any container you had from what looked like a fifty gallon fuel drum with a hand pump on it, and charge you the appropriate amount depending on the container, I ended up carrying around a liter of rum everywhere, and it cost about 10 cents, no exageration, 10 freakin cents.... on the bad side of things, I saw many people I was hanging around with get arrested, and beat by the police with little or no provocation, it appeared they were arrested for congrogating?, I was interogated after attending a concert at a place called Patio Maria, the cops were pretty unhappy with some of the anti-castro lyrics that were sung at the show. So in conclusion, Cuba pluses: great nightlife, super cheap rum, great dancing. Cuba minuses: political oppression, no freedom of speech, possible blindness from afor mentioned cheap rum, and potential for turning into a vampire.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 20, 2007, 18:54:

Docwilliam: Good dancer, bad dancer, Cubans don’t care as long as you’re buying.

Morphus: I don’t hang out on the Cuba boards much except the LP every now and then, so I’ve lost track of all the Greenscreeners. Nice to see you’re still alive. And yes, you described Cuba perfectly.

bartolo_colon: Cuba isn’t anywhere near the party place it used to be, but yes, everything you’re saying is sooooo familiar…

Cheers,
Terry

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David Pristupa says on Dec 20, 2007, 18:59:

Colombiche...did you say snow or is it a
rumour? Send some down. It doesn't
snow in the south.

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 20, 2007, 19:55:

Make that two cases.

Cheers,
Terry

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Atrevido says on Dec 21, 2007, 02:33:

Cuba is one of the most expensive destinations if you are traveling from Colombia.

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 05:12:

I'm not sure why you picked those two countries for comparison.
They have similarities, of course, but I cannot think of two more different countries.
Cuba's political system is that of an ultra-conservative socialist police-state. Whereas Colombia is free-market, free-wheeling and supremely capitalistic. Actually, Colombia has more in common with Batista-era Cuba or the Dominican Republic now. The point of Castro's revolution was to take power from the hands of the hands of the rich ruling class and give it to the campesinos. Colombia is the exact opposite, with the vast amount of wealth in the hands of a few. There is far more wealth in Colombia, but there is also far more poverty. One thing you will NEVER see in Cuba are the vast number of homeless that can be seen in virtually any city in Colombia.

... I just realized that I could go on for an hour.

Anyway, Colombiche... have fun on the beach in Veradero (with all the other Canadians), but PLEASE... do not come back thinking you know anything about Cuba. (Not meant as an insult... just the truth)

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 05:17:

One more thing... La Habana was, in 1960, without question, the most beautiful city in the western hemisphere, but after languishing for 50 years, it’s in sad shape. Also, if you like music, Santiago is more considered more authentic… (although many Habaneros would disagree).

In any case, most everything now is just a show for the tourists.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 05:36:

OK... one more thing.

Terry said that the Cubanos are more "open to anything, and anyone, at anytime." This is largely to two things -

1) Cubanos have alot more free time.
2) Cubanos make money (or hope to) on just about anything they do with a tourist.

Also, politically and economically, Cuba is far more conservative than Colombia, but culturally and socially, the situation is reversed. Generally speaking Colombia is a Catholic country, whereas, Castro’s government all but eliminated the church (Cubans were not "officially" allowed to celebrate even Christmas until just a few years ago). So yes, it is easier to meet people (women) in Cuba. And their dancing does seem less inhibited (less formal) than Colombianos, but I'n not sure if that makes them better dancers (But I'm not a dancer, so I don't really know)

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 05:44:

Some people get hooked on one country. I used to be hooked on Cuba back in the 90s. I was never planning to travel anywhere outside the U.S. until a friend told me about Cuba. He travelled all over the world and finally to Cuba. He said "the only vacations i'm taking for now on will be in Cuba". I knew it had to be good so I went.

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 05:50:

Cuba was infinitely more interesting back in the 90’s. It’s lost much of it’s appeal over the past decade… kinda like Colombia has and probably will continue to as it becomes more of "safe", trendy destination.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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viajero1 says on Dec 21, 2007, 06:25:

this is a rather peculiar post; cuba sure does have nice women.

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 06:26:

Cuba is definately good if you like a lot of attention. I remember I would start walking alone in the street and after a few blocks I would have an entourage of 20 or more people. It would just keep growing and growing...lol

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SamGompers says on Dec 21, 2007, 06:33:

Que bola?

I traveled to Cuba annually for about 6 or 7 years straight (1996-2003) - - usually combining "business" and pleasure. I love the place. I also love Colombia. I'm gonna tackle Terry's post point by point:

Stuff to see: Obviously, Colombia is a bigger place, but Cuba is a big island with everything from mountains to beaches to big cities to villages. I could probably spend a full year in either place without getting tired.

History/culture: quantity is not always quality. Colombian history is fascinating - - but Cuba was at the crossroads of the New World for three centuries, and its current history is as complex and "global" in significance as its days spent as a jewel in empire's crown. Plus, the Cubans have a strong, loud sense of history - - the number of museums, historical houses, sites, etc. in Havana is probably equal to the institutionalized history sites in all of Colombia. (Where else, for instance, could you find a stark, elegant monument to Julius and Ethel Rosenberg plopped down in the middle of a small parque? Or get your photo taken sitting next to John Lennon on a park bench?)

"Restored" colonial cities: Havana is like the Macondo of ciudades viejas - - it's all right there but all about to fall down. The work done to preserve Cartagena's old city is stupendous. Sure, it's smaller and not the capital - - but as a "restored" city, hands-down winner is Cartagena. (As a city pure and simple - - there is no caribena city that can hold a candle to La Habana - - size, diversity, complexity - -and sheer weirdness.)

Safety: Tourist police crowd every corner of Habana Vieja and Vedado, this makes it safe but also very clammy. I.e. the interactions between cubanos and visitors are highly regulated and controlled, especially in these tourist sectors. If you're a light-skinned yuma, try walking down the Malecon hand-in-hand with your novia negrita. If I gave you 10 CP for each time you get stopped, you could treat me to a nightlong mojito marathon at the Hotel Nacional. Forget about trying to spend the night with your novia - - either at her place or hotel or nowadays even casa particular. The flip side of security is control. IMO, Colombia is one of the safest S.A. countries (so long as you stay out of the FARC zones). Cities like Bogota, Medellin, Cartagena, Barranquilla are very safe compared to cities like Lima, Rio, Salvador, Quito. Sure, there are some evil barrios - - but Havana also has some pretty evil barrios (try Cayo Hueso in Centro). Looking at safety overall (security and freedom etc.) - - I would definitely choose Colombia.

Dyonissian fun: Cubans love to dance - - Colombians love to party (personally, I think the Dominican culture of dance rivals that of the Cubans). Put the music on and the Cubans are off to the races. Set out the beer, or rum, and collect the friends and the Colombians are gone in 60 seconds. I have had the wildest times ever in Colombian bars with a group of friends and some good alcohol, music optional. For me, it's not the quality of the dancing - - but how much joy the dancing or partying involves. IMO, Cubans are manic-depressives, albeit beautiful bi-polars - - who swing from exhilarated joy to dark pessimism depending on the company, time of day, and stimulants. Colombians (and I don't want to stereotype more than necessary) have smoother transitions and are generally able to achieve extreme states of artful mellowness.

Getting business done: forget about it in Cuba - - the whole culture has been shaped by a gross bureaucracy and the business "climate" resembles, on a good day, something out of Kafka. Not so in Colombia - - where entrepreneurialism runs fast and deep. Cubans generally look to get some profit as quickly and cheaply as possible, consequences be damned - - Colombians generally want to start and sustain a business, and see business as a long-term proposition.

Price: until three or four years ago, Cuba was a real bargain, if you knew where to stay, where to go, who to hang out with. I had the most incredible meal on one visit in an illegal restaurant set up in a huge pre-Revolution apartment in a decaying building on the Malecon for about five bucks. Things have changed a lot since then - - especially with the convertible peso and the further throttling of private enterprise on the island. Colombia is a cheap destination by almost any standards - - again if you avoid the Decamerons and the tourist traps.

Obviously it's difficult to compare both places - - each has much to offer and each is very different. However, which would I prefer to travel to? Colombia - - sin duda.

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Colombiche says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:33:

"Anyway, Colombiche... have fun on the beach in Veradero (with all the other Canadians), but PLEASE... do not come back thinking you know anything about Cuba"

What part of "I am going to spend most of my time out of the hotel, in the real Cuba" didn't you understand? And unlike you albatross, I am latin american and bilingual, and immigrant who has adapted to different environments and didn't grow up living a sheltered life in priviledged little bubble wasp town somewhere in the State of New York but now thinks he is world savvy because he travels overseas looking for booty and cool sights. I have a more profound understanding of cuban folkore, slang, mannerisms, quirks and music than you could probably ever even begin to obtain.

I have a lot more respect for guys like morphus who have no pretentions and just say it like it is.

Its the freaking holiday season, at least try to stop being a bitter prick for a few days, although I think it might kill you.

And it's spelled Varadero, not Veradero.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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podborski says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:36:

colombiche make sure you get to Havana, and you HAVE to stay at least one night in a casa particular. Don't let the fact you might be paying for a room at the resort stop you from a great experience.

and I know it's touristy, but there are few more romantic/exotic places to dine than in the famous la guarida paladar. Unforgettable (but not for the food). Make sure you reserve a table.

If I wanted to take someone on a surprise last-minute weekend getaway, I can't think of a better place to go than la guarida. It's out of another time (if it hasn't changed or closed, god I hope not).

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podborski says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:40:

here's a photo of the stairway leading up to la guarida, when I was there many years ago, there was a family living on the landing of the staircase

http://www.pbase.com/bolla49/image/63547199

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viajero1 says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:43:

cuba verses colombia is interesting

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Colombiche says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:45:

Te agradezco pod, he estado averiguando algunas casas particulares en la Habana. Pague una habitacion en un resort porque me salio super barato (regalado) el paquete completo pero tengo el presupuesto para pagar alojamiento en otros sitios.

Po' que yo se que la Habana me esta esperando (right around minute 3:15 on....)

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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miamimike says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:09:

Cuba is far from being a has Been on the Tourist Trail! If anything, it now is just the opposite! When the Travel restrictions are finally lifted someday for Americans(and that day will come) Tourism Travel in Cuba will explode like an A-Bomb in Miami! Day Ferries will once again run out of Miami! Hi speed Car Ferries will probably start to run again, so throw your Car or Moto on the Ferry and arrive in Cuba a few hours later ready to roll! Other Latin American Countries will dred this day because the opening of Cuba surely will draw tourists from other Areas bigtime. Of course, there will be a Delay from the Day Cuba Opens until the Travel Surge really begins due to the fact 100s of new hotels, restaurants and transportation infrastructure that will need to be built and/or updated. Cuba, preCastro, was the party Place of the Carribbean and I'll lay even Money it will regain the # 1 Spot once it opens again! The Port of Miami and Miami International Airport will be one Busy place(moreso then it is now) when this day comes. Key West Airport, as well its Port Area will Boom again, moreso then it today for sure. My Old Retired Neighbor(cuban) related how when Cuba was open in the late 50s, he would drive to the Miami Car Ferry Dock, load his car aboard and drive off to the Hotel and be dancing with the Women by 10pm! Sunday Afternoon around 4 pm, he would load his car back on the Ferry and drive off in Miami before Midnight in time to work the next day. I would bet that Hi Speed Hydrofoil Type Vessels will be brought into service for this trip so that will cut the time to travel by 1/3! Sounds like a Winner! Viva Cuba Libre! Bring on the Girls, Rum and Cha Cha Cha! LOL

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:20:

"colombiche make sure you get to Havana, and you HAVE to stay at least one night in a casa particular"

One night in a casa particular? Why?

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Colombiche says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:22:

Morphus did u ever stay in a casa particular?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:32:

Another one, cubano con barrera' jajaja:

"Ete que ta qui atra' .. viene comiendo mieeeeddda"

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:38:

I stayed in plenty of casa particulars Some good and some bad. Theres nothing magical going on inside. Its just a Cuban family with a decent house renting out the rooms. They have to pay the government a majority of the money they make. The owners of casa particulars live a lot better than the average Cuban. A lot also have family in Miami sending them money. I like the ones with a seperate apartment attached and with a private entrance.

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Cheers Terry says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:46:

podborski: La Guardia is still in business and lovely as ever. Here's another reminder of the entrance staircase and the upper landing.





Cheers,
Terry

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 09:19:

"I have a more profound understanding of cuban folkore, slang, mannerisms, quirks and music than you could probably ever even begin to obtain."

Thanks, Colombiche... I needed a good laugh.

Maybe you're held to a stricter standard because you constantly talk about how much of an authentic Latina you are... but you live in Canada and you're planning a trip to a infamous tourist area like Veradero, (where they don't even allow Cubans, other than for work), stay in a hotel (Again, where Cubans are not allowed) and rent a car (which almost no Cuban can afford)... and then get mad when it's pointed out that you're not likely to learn anything about Cuba... I don't think my comment was inappropriate.

I've seen it spelled "Varadero", "Varedaro" and "Veradero"... who cares.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 09:34:

miamimike,

I guess it depends on what you're looking for... you're right the actual number of Tourists has been on the rise since the early '90's, when the Soviet pulled out, and will increase exponentially, when the embargo is lifted. As you say, La Habana will once again become a weekend party destination for America. Guns, drugs, crime and violence will once again rise. Homelessness too, as the poor are displaced from prime property while Hotels, Condos, and businesses will spring up all along the Malecon.

Eventually, La Habana will be indistinguishable from Miami.

Coincidently, I've often described similar scenarios to Cubans who, look forward to the day when the embargo is lifted. But I pointed out that they may not like it so much when hoards of Americans (who call themselves Cubans) descend on Cuba with their money and lawyers demanding reparations and the return of property that belonged to them or their family. I described how many Cubans had no chance of keeping the houses they have lived their whole lives. Of course, they don’t believe me; they still think Americans are their friends.

But of course... I grew up in a sheltered bubble... so what do I know.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 09:53:

Miami Cubans won't be getting their property back.

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kalder says on Dec 21, 2007, 09:56:

I'm curious- can Cubans dance as well as Englishmen?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:03:

Best dancer of all time: Vanilla Ice

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:03:

"Miami Cubans won't be getting their property back."

Who will stop them ?
Castro and the current Cuban government are the only thing standing in the way.
If Cuba changes to a Capitalist system, then the people with the money will get what they want.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:23:

Then they will have a homeless problem like in Colombia...LOL. How long do you think those Batista era Cubans in Miami are going to live? Anybody that owned a house or business in Cuba in the 1950s has to be in their 70s, 80s or dead.

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kalder says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:29:

Damn, that boy's got some moves!

He must be black.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:34:

True, but their children and grandchildren are alive.
They'll just hire laywers who will argue that Castro's seizing of private property was illegal and that the descendants have a legal claim to the property. (or something like that).
I think the lifting of the embargo will be a feeding-frenzy for the lawyers.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:37:

I don't think many Miami Cubans will get their property back either. Sure there may be a few. But the majority who were born in Cuba were born after their mother's and father's property was seized by the Communist dictatorship. I wonder how many Cubans currently living in Miami actually had title to property in Cuba? I really don't know and wouldn't even know how to research that. But it would be a fascinating statistic. The US and other country's companies that were stolen by the State would have a much better chance of being given back than formerly privately owned houses and such. But, it is just my opinion and pure speculation. Who really knows what will happen? I can't wait for it to get started though. It will be like a tropical falling of the Berlin Wall x 10.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:43:

I wrote a bad sentence and edited, so my comment is now below Alba's comment. Yes, Miami Cubans will hire lawyers and will try and get their property back with the argument that it was stolen. And? ......... It WAS stolen.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Albatross says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:49:

Your right, it IS speculation.
Cuba has gone through enough crap already...
Hopefully, the inevitable deluge of American Tourists and Businessmen won't be just more of the same.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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podborski says on Dec 21, 2007, 12:39:

I think staying in a casa particular is a lot more enjoyable than in a hotel, getting to know a cuban family is usually a fun experience, and the food is often far better than you could get in any restaurant.

I know lots of people who did the Varadero beach trip and then booked a day tour of Havana, and I think they missed 90% of what Cuba/Havana is about.

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podborski says on Dec 21, 2007, 12:44:

I also think Havana might one day become the jewel of the caribbean, but wonder if it will be too late to save the architecture that looks to me to be near the point where it will not be able to be restored (on anything more than a limited scale, as they are doing in old havana).

I'm glad I saw it before the hordes of tourists get there...I'm afraid it will go from one extreme to the other. I can't see how the average Cuban will be able to avoid the 'wow I can finally make a living' temptation to do whatever it takes to make some money.

Obviously a lot of them are already at that point, but not all.

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cdy says on Dec 21, 2007, 17:22:

Cuba won't be overrun with returnees from Miami, Cuba will be overrun with developers once the embargo is lifted(some may be Cuban but most will be Donald Trump types)
Think large private land development comapnies buying large swaths of land, bulding resort stye condos with timeshares and marketing them to wealthy Gringos in US and Europe.

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morphus says on Dec 21, 2007, 17:22:

I like Cienfuegos better than Havana.

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Colombiche says on Dec 21, 2007, 18:32:

"Maybe you're held to a stricter standard because you constantly talk about how much of an authentic Latina you are... but you live in Canada and you're planning a trip to a infamous tourist area like Veradero, (where they don't even allow Cubans, other than for work), stay in a hotel (Again, where Cubans are not allowed) and rent a car (which almost no Cuban can afford)... and then get mad when it's pointed out that you're not likely to learn anything about Cuba..." - Alba Atroz


Being an authentic latina means I should lie on the beach 10 hours in a row wearing a skimpy micro bikini and rubbing hot coconut oil and zanahoria rayada con co'a colita all over myself hoping a scientifically perfect tan... while getting my hair braided into chaquiritas by a couple of negritas and downing cubitas libres "con yelito". I would let the hotel staff pamper the hell out of me and I would call the waiters over by clapping or calling them "niñññña hagame el fa de traerme unas servilleticas....".

"Authentic" Latinos are used to freaking hardship so when they spend a few bucks travelling they love to get treated like royalty why the hell do you think everybody in Colombia has a servant? Have you seen rolos and paisas in san andres or Cartagena? They are homegrown tourons.

It's white people (gringos and euros) that actually that love to backpack and stay at hostels and be all frugal, adventurous and handy and get appalled and wide eyed at the social inequality and hang with people from lower strata cuzzz you find them like, so authetic and like totally mad hip and you just can't believe these third world snobs.

The frugal, backpacking part of me is something I acquired in the socialist great white North, my cousins in Colombia are all estrato 6 snobs and they think I am a "loca ajipada mariguanera con ideas raras que le gusta andar en los barrios de mala muerte y hablar con gente turbia".

And last but not least, why do you care what I do anyway? .

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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manINred says on Dec 21, 2007, 18:47:

"Have you seen rolos and paisas in san andres" actually, that's all i saw when i was there, not one gringo, other than myself ;)

but actually, you're spot on!

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bartolo_colon says on Dec 21, 2007, 18:52:

colombiche, i like the way you roll. sometimes you see the world as a traveler, sometimes you just need a fucking vacation.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

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miamimike says on Dec 21, 2007, 20:48:

They did a poll in Miami not long ago just on this Subject! Most Old Cubans ARE NOT going back Permentely. Maybe for a week or so but thats it! The Younger Cubans born here could care less about Cuba and its old Jalopies. They to said they would return for a Vacation but thats about it! Some want to go back and start a Business but the Government would make sure that doesn't happen. Fidel's Inner circle has its feet well planted in the ground and they will be around for Decades after Fidel exits this World. The Cuban Natives would fight the Batista "Gusanos" who ran to Miami to the death if someone tried to take their Govt owned Home.I doubt it will happen. Most Old Miami Exile Cubans don't want to kick some poor family out of their Dilapidated home, they want to bury the hatchet! Anyone looking for Nice pre-castro Nightclub in Miami, Head to Little Habana on Calle 8 , around 16 ave to a place called "Cuba Como Ayer'" Its like Cuba in the 50s-60s! Place always jammed on weekends!

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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orestesdd says on Dec 26, 2007, 08:49:

I am cuban, and I don't plan to go back to Cuba ever. I've been here 27 years, and I do plan to retire in Colombia.

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morphus says on Dec 26, 2007, 11:15:

You are no longer Cuban. Jose Marti did'nt run.

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john_stark says on Dec 28, 2007, 00:05:

I don't know what the fuck is happening but Morph, you're starting to turn into one of the wisest posters on PBH. I knew I shouldn't have stopped drinking.

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morphus says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:30:

Thanks John_stark! Do you have any pictures of you with your cousin Chuck Conners?

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morphus says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:37:

I miss the good old days in Cuba back in the 90s. 500 bucks in your wallet and a few cans of sardines and you were the king.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:39:

Colombiche, nice post. It's the same story here, me and my Colombian friends on a vacation in Cartagena or San Andres or just hanging out in Cali. I'm entitled, however, for my weirdness, because I'm not Colombian-born. I have no problem drinking beer out of a bottle sitting on a murito outside the house with the daughter of the maid or wearing jeans and sandals when the other women are dressed in high-end fashions and have spent hours in a beauty parlor to get their hair done; I just step out of the shower and shake my curly mane and all done.

At the same time, I do wear dresses and shoes and accessories and stuff and comb my hair on social occasions; don't want to embarrass my friends but I'm allowed certain liberties that other women would not, I'm not restricted by the same social codes of the snobby Caleño strata 5-6 society as the others.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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tomtom33 says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:39:

I heard that you could trade a bologna sandwich to a guy and get his girl for the night.

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morphus says on Dec 28, 2007, 04:47:

A bottle of Havana Club rum. Other guys were only bringing regular cans of sardines. When I started bringing cans of smoked sardines, I got the best girls.

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morphus says on Dec 28, 2007, 05:00:

"I'm not restricted by the same social codes of the snobby Caleño strata 5-6 society as the others"

Can you have friends that are black or Indio?

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 28, 2007, 06:03:

Yes and I do.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Chelesupercono says on Dec 28, 2007, 06:06:

Comparing Cuba and Colombia in any way is almost absurd....yes, Cuba has great music, art,etc. But please.....the people live their lives afraid of their own shadow. Fidel is a monster and had done nothing but oppress his people and perfected the police state. The last time I was there in 2005 it was so depressing I will never return until the people are free......get real.

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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john_stark says on Dec 28, 2007, 18:11:

Helluva nice pic of Kevin. He was always good to his mother.

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