Copa America-Colombia and Mexico

scotty says on Jul 4, 2007, 20:02:

go Argentina! go Paraguay!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Simon says on Jul 4, 2007, 20:40:

I don't think too many people in Colombia care about the Mexican team.

Argentina, now there's a great team that is worth opening a thread about!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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bueno_pues says on Jul 4, 2007, 21:12:

Y por que los Colombianos a ellos importa mas el equipo de Argentina que el equipo de Mexico? El equipo de Argentina me parece como un grupo de Italianos y a mi no importan nada.

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Simon says on Jul 4, 2007, 21:15:

Porque los Argentinos si saben como jugar excelente! Ese es un equipazo!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2007, 22:36:

You think so Simon? Good !! Because I am counting on a Mexico playing Argentina, and when Mexico puts Argentina on their culos, (I'll settle for just a victory) than you can come back and tell me how great Argentina.is.

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jaramillo says on Jul 5, 2007, 06:45:

I'm pretty amazed by Brasil. That is a deep team, Copa America is just a little testing ground for them. They did not even bother to bring their A team midfield (Kaka, Ronaldinho, Emerson).

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woodybaum says on Jul 5, 2007, 06:55:

i wish people would realize that the states did not bring any of their national team starters to the copa america. that is why they are playing so poorly. but argentina is incredible. everyone one of their players would start for any other national team (including their bench). when you have guys like pablo aimar, tevez, milito on the bench, you have a stacked squad. vamos argentina

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woodybaum says on Jul 5, 2007, 06:56:

and i forgot to mention, "the US is Mexico's papa"- Landon Donovan

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elmodefoque says on Jul 5, 2007, 06:59:

I’m perplexed and befuddled at this anti Mexico thing from most Colombians, but let me make it quite clear, THIS colombiano loves the crap outta Mexico and see them as our bigger wealthy brothers to the north. I feel absolutely no ties what so ever to Argentina and as far as I’m concerned Argentina might as well be in fokin Italy.
Mexico overshadows any other Latin nation, in wealth, beauty and talent.
Before I went to Mexico I was also mistaken, thought all Mexicans were the same little injuns you see crossing the USA border.
While sitting in the hotel lobby of the impressive 6 stars Grand Melia Cancun, watching them film a novella and feeding gigantic goldfish, in comes a large group of upper middle class Mexican students form DF, staying there for a week.
These were all girls similar to the ones you see in Mexican soap operas, STUNNING, CULTURED AND BREATH TAKING.
The other Mexicans vacationing in Cancun from all over Mexico drove their fancy big Mercedes Benz . Let me tell ya if I was from Mexico I’ll never leave that damn country either, is so damn beautiful no need to go anywhere else
.They all thought I was a wealthy Mexican too, they had no idea I was just a low life colombiano.
I hope Mexico beats the crap outta Argentina. THANK YOU!!!

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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elmodefoque says on Jul 5, 2007, 07:08:

another thing, the richest man in the planet is NOW a freaking Mexican. thank you!

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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elmodefoque says on Jul 5, 2007, 07:17:

I know nothing about soccer/futbol, all I know is one boring as all hell game.
I’m a baseball kind of guy.
I did play bolatrapo with no shoes back in Barranquilla but that was a hundred years ago.
Sorry for the interruption and please get back to your copa vaina. Thank you!!

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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jaramillo says on Jul 5, 2007, 08:02:

c'mon Elmo! No Junior for you when you were a little boy?

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jaramillo says on Jul 5, 2007, 08:03:

Mexico might be all you say Elmo, but right now I think Medellin is much safer than any place in Mejico.

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elmodefoque says on Jul 5, 2007, 08:26:

Jaramillo, I never got caught up in the Junior thing, was too busy following baseball games between los Caimanes de Barranquilla contra los Tigres de Cartagena playing down the street from where in lived in el barrio abajo estadio Thomas Arrieta.

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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Miguel says on Jul 5, 2007, 08:53:

El estadio Tomás Arrieta es un cacharro.

Díganos elmodofoque más relatos sobre tu carrera vendiendo butifarra antes, durante, y despúes de los partidos Junior.

Eh le le, eh la la....el edit button no está.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 5, 2007, 09:02:

I don't understand something. Brazil doesn't send their best players to this tournament, the U.S. doesn't send their best players and maybe country x doesn't send their best players either. Therefore, aren't the resulting bragging rights and inevitable arguments kind of pointless?

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Monpirri says on Jul 5, 2007, 09:49:

Argentina y Colombia tienen mas en comun y no solamente futbolisticamente. Llevamos varios años intercambiando futbolistas entre los dos paises. En la arte de teatro es una argenitina la que organiza el evento en Bogota.
En el modelaje tambie tenemos varios intercambios y no se nos olivide del tango que hemos adoptado en Colombia, ha y de la cumbia Argentina, que por cierto tiene buen ritmo.

No se puede ocultar, Argentina es el favorito! Para ser campeon hay que tener confienza en su propia cultura, hay que tener orgullo como ellos lo tiene de su pais, hay que llevar el pais al frente y no como los voltiera arepas de este foro.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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elmodefoque says on Jul 5, 2007, 10:58:

So there I was, having my usual grilled salmon on a bed of fresh lettuce from the Korean joint at my place of work.
After lunch I sat there sipping sodi pop looking out toward 10th Ave pondering a topic which has me puzzled. Why do most middleclass Colombians dislike Mexicans?
Do they see them as mere ignorant Indians, if so they are downright mistaken!
This is not new to me; all my life I’ve heard negatives comments regarding Mexicans from my very own father. He’s dead now but I shouldda asked,”hey Pa! what’s the beef between you and Mexicans, Did my mother abandoned us for a Mexican? I don’t think so, the guy was corroncho barranquillero bus driver!”
I really don’t understand why they feel that way, most Colombians my age grew up watching old black and white movie with Antonio Aguilar and Cantiflas.
Mexicans have always being a major influence in all Latin countries.
I don’t recall Mexicans saying disparaging things about Colombians, they don’t even know where the hell Colombia is, we are way outta their league. As a matter of fact they welcome all Colombian immigrants to their land.
If someone out there could enlighten me regarding this beef between these two countries I cherish so much, I’ll be most grateful.
One final thought, Argentina no le da ni por los tobillos a Mexico! THANK YOU!!

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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Simon says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:00:

Argentina is larger than Mexico, not only in size but also in football! And when it comes to the women, there's no comparison, the 'argentinas' win hands down! Tango is very popular in Colombia and so is Argentine rock. I have no problem with Argentina, it is also a great nation and I admire them.

Gomez,

Do I think so? Anyone who knows anything about internationl football thinks so! Argentina is light years ahead of Mexico.

Elmo,

You think futbol is boring but you like baseball??

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2007, 12:37:

No Simon.....sorry to tell ya, only Colombians for some reason or another think that way. You live in Colombia, and by definition associate with mostly Colombians. You would not know what a bosnian, serbian or Romanian looked like if he ran into you head first. Chicago is far more international than Bogota. That is a given. I go to all the soccer bars of the various counties to experience their culture, their food, their people, their women (some are nice) and yes, low and behold, their football. So tell me Simon, why do the Germans or the Italians (I go to their espresso bars) think that Mexico has a great football team. I think they recognize good football better than any Colombian can. Don't you think they should know. If you asked any one of them, they would tell you that Mexico has a far greater team.......consistently better than Colombia. Somebody made the comment about why Brazil did not "bring" Ronaldinho, Kaka,and Emerson. I already answered that in another thread. And I AM CORRECT. Emerson I cannot explain. Ronaldinho, and Kada, voluntariy removed themselves from the nationa team stating that they are tired. Yes you heard me...tired. They said they needed a rest. They have the right to do so since playing for the National team is not, and of course should not be their priority. But the same can be said of Mexico. Mexico is kicking butt in South America right now without Salcido. Since you think Mexican footbal is mediocre, you probably never heard of the guy. But how about this, this is not one player....not one, on the Colombian national team that even comes close to the likes of Salcido. Sorry, but it is true. Simon, you can tell me a horse is a cow, but that does not make it so. Same regarding your assessment of Mexico versus any other team in South America. They are as good, as Brazil and Argentina, and they are better than every other South American team. Did you guys also forget that Mexico just came off of three grueling weeks of play in the heat here in the US while competing in the Copa de Oro..? I guess that did not count either. You go play in Houston at this time of year. They did not even have 3 days of rest, before they began that tournament in Ven.

Monpirri
Bout this comment:
"Argentina y Colombia tienen mas en comun y no solamente futbolisticamente. Llevamos varios años intercambiando futbolistas entre los dos paises"

I find that really interesting. "A lot more in common huh". No son, I think you have it all wrong....again. The only thing that Colombia has is a perceptual rivalry with Argentina Once again, back during those 10 years or so when Colombia really could compete with Argentina, Colombian people (myself included) saw themselves as the new Argentina. Colombians in the late 80s and early 90s began to look for every reason to dislike Argentina. I remember one game back in the mid 90s when Colombia beat Argentina in Argentina, and Colombians went nuts.....all over the place. I know, I saw the game on satelite in a Colombian bar in Chicago. Man, you would have thought that Colombia had ended its civil war and killed the last member of the FARC. The funny thing about it all is that the Argentinians never saw Colombia as a serious rival. They merely saw them as another team to beat. However....,... Colombia rejoiced after that victory. Then after a very lack luster performance at the World Cup in 98, the team really slid down, and never recoverd to to what it was. But Why? It did not have to happen that way. So why? Let's start with the mafiosos. Remember them guys? The guys that members of the National team rubbed shoulders with? Valderrama for one. Here is a guy that should have been knocked off the National team well before he was temninated, But he and some of his other buddies were kept on the team because they were favorites of the mafias. Let's face it, they called the shots either directly or indirectly. Ya think I am talking shit? I'll just give you one simple equation and my case rests and I win with a directed verdict:
Auto Goal plus Escobar = Mafioso. OK, they play a much less role (I hope) in deciding who and what the National Team is all about.....today. But if you don't think that the stranglehold that they held on who and what the team was composed of, and if you don't think that because of that grip they did not seriously set the team back in the replacement of Key players in key positions so that the team remained a viable one, then you guys are.....once again.....in a state of denial. Why the fuck do I have to come on here and always show the truth that my fellow Colombian people like to bury somewhere? You Gringos and alike want to know what the real story is about Colombia, and it's soccer team, don't ask people on here for God's sake, go find some Colombian people living where you live and ask them.

Man....such bull.....the two teams have more in common.....that is the laugh of laughs. The only thing they have in common is they play on the same continent, and they speak the same language. End of story

You know something?? Mexico has performed VERY WELL in every single Copa America contest. Were they not the ones that finished second to Colombia when Colombia hosted it?????huh huh?? Remember that ? Or am I just making things up? Yep...second. And what was the bull shit excuse I heard on here a few years ago....I will not even get into it. Well, let me enlighten you people who thought Colombia was the best team in South America. When ever I bragged to all of my European friends about Colombia winning the Copa America, they all said,,,,,,oh sure of course, because Argentina was not there. And by the way Mr. Monpirri.....Monpirri.....responde por favor ..en espanol o ingles di me. Why was not Argentina there?? If you cannot remember, I'll help you. The team that you think has so much in common with Colombia, told the world that Colombia was too dangerous. for them to travel too. My God, how could that be Monpirri? What a slap in the face. And by the way, that was front page news alllllll around the world Not for the fact that were not participating in a stupid soccer tournament, but to tell the whole world how one country, unilaterally, overnight, could belittle another country.....Colombians were furious (I suspect that some of those that have things in common with Argentina were furious to Monpirri). But guess what team traveled the Atlantic for all of those hours to play...It's called M E X I C O.

Lastly, touching on what Elmo addressed. Colombians ought pray to God every day for the existance of all of those Mexicans in this country, because every single benefit that Colombians obtain, are a result of the politically active Mexican lobbyist in this country. I throw out a few names that you can Google at your leisure. MALDEF, and La Raza. Yep......all Mexican run. Colombia has about as much political influence in this country as I do in China. Colombians here, at least publicly, kiss the Mexican asses all the time so that they can better themselves or get out of trouble. When they need lawyers, who do you think has the legal clinics to aide them? The Mexicans. When they need health care, who do you think owns the clinics that except Medicaid for acute illness and pregnant Colombian girls. The Mexicans. When they seek public employment, and their English is not so good, and they are worried about being discriminate against because of their Spanish accents, who do you think runs the employment placement centers, and has connections with the politicians to "make the phone call" to get them a job.....Ta da.....If you guessed the Mexicans. ur right!!! And lastly, who do you think organizes the voter registration drives for the Colombians upon becoming new citizens......guess guess guess....again, the Mexicans. OK, so people like Simon and others who live in Colombia are saying, "what do I care, I live in Colombia? Wrong again senior. As we All know, the only reason these Colombians came here in the first place....legal or not, was to work and send money home. Yes sir.....they all do it. I have never met one that didn't. If they say they don't. The are liars. So with all that money coming back to the homeland....helping families in Colombia, don't ya think that helps the Colombian economy? A 75,000 dollar a year physical therapist from Colombia, makes more money here than she can make in Colombia in 10 years. Aint that sad folks? Truth is truth. You can gloss over it all you want, but....hey my Colombian .....when it comes to living in fantasy worlds and being in a state of denial......they wrote the book....first second and third editions to boot.

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Simon says on Jul 5, 2007, 14:09:

Gomez,

How many players does Mexico have playing in Europe as oppossed to Colombia? Very few, because most mexican players can't hack it in Europe. Look at Borguetti for instance, a very good player, but he was just warming a bench in England. The only mexican player who stood out in Europe was Hugo Sanchez and that was twenty years ago!


The fact is you can bloviate all you want but Mexico hasn't won didly squat! They are always the runners-up, the team that almost got there, in other words...losers! Even here every one knows that USA is now their daddy in their own region, Concacaf. Sorry if it hurts your 'mexican sensibilities', but mexican football just doesn't register with most Colombians, why should it when we have Brasil and Argentina in our region?

Oh, and about Colombian political influence in the US, I just read yesterday in El Tiempo that a Colombian was named mayor of Hackensack, NJ, so there!! And from what I've read, the Cubans have done much more in much less time politically than the mexicans in the US.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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manINred says on Jul 5, 2007, 15:08:

Stylistically Colombia has nothing in common with Argentina at the moment. They do not have the skill to control the midfield as Argentina do, nor the attacking presence, nor the delivery, nor the defensive adeptness, etc... Let us not kid ourselves here.

As for the US not bringing their first team, who are we kidding? Even if they brought the few extra players who make up their first team, they would not beat teams like Argentina. They are close to their first team anyway. Brazil has a first team minus a few players such as Kaka and Ronaldinho, but it was their perogative not to come, so to demean the achievements of Argentina and Mexico just because Brazil doesn't have their first team (by the way, they are close to having it, just like the US) is ignorant.

Let us remember Brazil for a moment in the world cup: A complete and utter disappointment. Brazil failed miserably, they were completely outplayed and outclassed by France, and the referee broke Ghana down, not Brazil. This has been the Brazil over the past 2 years, not similar to the Argentina we see now. The United States were even poorer in WC2006.

Now comparing Mexico to Colombia? Other than the psychological problem that Mexico has against the US, they are not even on the same plane of football existence this year. They are the second best team in this tournament, and might very well win it, since they have an advantage over Argentina when it comes to the climate. They play a much more flowing and consistent game than Colombia, which is congruent with Argentina's play, although not quite as pretty on the eyes. Of course the managers of the team promote different styles, but we are talking about skill similarity, aren't we.

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Monpirri says on Jul 5, 2007, 16:45:

G5 you waste so much time trying to tell us that Mexico is better than Colombia.
Dude you should change your nationality but not just for your opinion on soccer but also about previous comments about Colombia.
You have always echoed many times the terror that used be exhibited by the travel advisor from the US government about visiting Colombia, you have expressed your bold comments in favor of prostitution in Colombia and your comments about immigration are only business motivated. You are usually absent from topics where Colombians voice their opinion in favor of positive events.

In retrospect, just take a look at your past threads or comments, you do not seem to know much about South America, Colombia or Argentina. Your expertise exceeds on the region or community where you have lived all your life.
In fact, and it’s obvious that you do not know this, many of our great soccer players who played in Argentina are currently playing in Europe. I wish my friend from Argentina would stop by and tell us about the significant number of Colombian soccer players who play in Argentina today or played yesterday, and perhaps he could also tell us about the number of Argentinian players who have been playing in Colombia for several years and about Argentinian coaches in Colombia.

Gomezman5, if you spend some time learning about Colombian soccer you will learn who are they and where they played at one time and where are they playing today!

The problem we have we many “Colombians” is their lack of identity, no cultural affiliation, no self pride, no interest in winning, but the only interest they possess is to whine for ever. But yeap they have time to advertise on regular basis that “X” is better than Colombia.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2007, 18:43:

ManINred, would you mine if I was again reiterate that I agree with every single word you said, especially the part about Colombia's proficiency, (or lack thereof). It is sad that there are people here who really think Colombia at this time, is a better team than Mexico. Is it possible that some of our Colombian friends are taking some of Colombia's most infamous exports? Simon is an intelligent person, but his biases come through. And yes ManINred, Brazil utterly choked in the World Cup. And, if I may add, has not redeemed themselves since then.

Monpirrii, there is a part of me that like to say things just to get "under your skin" but I resist the temptation. I am always frank and never hold back,....as you very well know.

Let's set Mexico aside. Are any of you guys (Simon, Monpirri, or whoever) optimistic about how well Colombia is going to do in the eliminations rounds which will be starting soon enough? The answer is a resounding NO! You are not. So today they beat the US 1-0. I am happy for them. But these goofs also missed 2 penalty kicks today, just like they missed the previous one. What team can call themselves a championship caliber tean when they miss two PKs in one game? Once agai, they looked sad today. Now you can't tell me they have a lot of time. They don't. They missed the 5th playoff spot for the World Cup by one point last time....they were looking for that extra point from those games that they lost a year and a half to 2 years earlier in the elminations. Every game counts.

Oh one more thing Simon, I did not say that Colombians are a non entity in terms of politics.. I just said that they are polticially insignificant, and reap in so many of the benefits that the Mexican political groups fight for and in fact obtain. In other words, Colombians, as well as other Latinos, ride in on the tails of the gains tht Mexicans in this country has fought for so dearly.

In the meantime, its the half between Arg and Par, and this has so far been a phenomenal game........the type that neither Mexico, the US, and yes Colombia, is incapable of playing......

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Simon says on Jul 5, 2007, 18:52:

"there are people here who really think Colombia at this time, is a better team than Mexico."


Gomezman,

As you're so fond of saying, it's simple logic. If Colombia > USA as we just saw (1-0) and USA > Mexico (as we saw in the Gold Cup), then Colombia > Mexico! N'est-ce pas?


BTW, even though Colombia won today over USA, that was a HORRIBLE game, just awful!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:04:

I am glad that Colombian won!
I always say, "The truth hurts" But let me address your comments. I never said that Colombia have a great team in this tournament. In fact, I have remained silent, but I did not go about and started a thread because Colombian looked mediocre in their matches and began to praise another country just because is a major influence in the US?

As you know?? G5 Colombia is out Copa America and therefore they are not going to be in "the eliminations rounds"

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:32:

"BTW, even though Colombia won today over USA, that was a HORRIBLE game, just awful!"

I agree with you Simon. It was games like that one that make cause Americans to say....yawn yawn....wake me when the game is over...Just was not exiting, or well payed by either side.

On the other hand.....this Par Arg game, is exactly what makes this game so great!! I cannot believe I am taking the two minutes to write this message...........Non stop action....I love it. It is so good, it's worth seeing again on video tape.

Monpirri, I was not talking about the elimination rounds (quarter semi and final) rounds of the Copa America. I meant the eliminaton rounds that take about 2 years (a little more) for the next world cup. I like the COMNEBOL system. It's long but easy to understand. CONCACAF is a maze of ongoing competition. That is partly true because there are so many teams

Peace everyone.....

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:37:

W O W....

What a GOAL for Argentina........!!!

Good, because I would rather see Mexico play Par then Arg. On the other hand, even if Mex beats Par, I cannot see any chance in hell of them beating Arg. ....not the way they are playing this evening.

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bueno_pues says on Jul 5, 2007, 20:22:

Mi esposa no tiene ningunos problemas con los Mexicanos. Realmente ella le gustan mucho.

Argentina no es mas larga que Mexico.

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Simon says on Jul 5, 2007, 20:35:

Yes, it is larger. Look at a world map.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 5, 2007, 21:52:

Da me tres tacos con carne asada. (tortilla de maiz)...con cebolla y cilantro.....con salsa verde (o roja) encima.....and you have the best and cheapest meal around.

That was what I wanted to do at one time.....bring an authentic Mexican style taqueria to Bogota'. I ate Mexican food one time in Chapinero and ......let's just say, the Taco Bells in Chicago had a better Taco.

On the other hand.....when I get to Bog, the only thing I want in Colombian food, especially Ajiaco, Sobrebariga a la criolla o ala brasa.

Now that is a switch huh?? From futbol to geography to food all in one thread.

Simon, which city do you live in??

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bueno_pues says on Jul 6, 2007, 06:12:

Que es mas importante? La tierra o la gente? Mexico tiene mucha mas gente y por eso es mas importante que Argentina en el mundo y en el mundo de espanol tambien.

Argentina pop.40,301,927 GDP $608.8 billion Area 2,766,890 sq km
Mexico pop.108,700,891 GDP $1.149 trillion Area 1,972,550 sq km

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elmodefoque says on Jul 6, 2007, 06:25:

$608.8 billion for argentina jajajajajijijijiji is that all?
the richest man in the world , a mexican guy, has more than that under his bed.

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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Simon says on Jul 6, 2007, 09:01:

Mexico más importante en el mundo de español que Argentina? El gran escritor argentino Jorge Luis Borges fue mejor que cualquier escritor que ha salido de Mexico. Y según tu logica, entonces la China sería el país "más importante" del mundo!

Gomez, I am in Armenia.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:19:

Elmo and cheerleaders:
The problem we have with many “Colombians” is their lack of identity, no cultural affiliation, no self pride, no interest in winning, but the only interest they possess is to whine for ever. But yeap they have time to advertise on regular basis that “X” is better than Colombia.
Dude stop kissing ass!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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bueno_pues says on Jul 6, 2007, 19:16:

"la China sería el país "más importante" del mundo"

Exactamente!

No quiero besar el culo de ningun Argentino. O Mexicano tampoco. Pero prefiero Mexico mas que Argentina.

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Simon says on Jul 6, 2007, 19:51:

Y yo prefiero más Argentina que Mexico.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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goin_south says on Jul 6, 2007, 20:52:

I'd rather be trout fishing......in Argentina.

What a mess (this thread), but I have to agree with one thing: for any team to miss two penalty kicks against a second string american team,.... does not bold well.

Where do we go from here?

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 05:42:

Yo prefiero Argentina por razones obvias, ellos no están tratando de embarcar o de disminuir el perfil de productos que son conocidos como de origen colombiano.

And I rather be in Argentina, a culture that is not trying to brand Colombian exports as one of their own products. Nor they are trying to subdue Colombian commodities.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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jaramillo says on Jul 7, 2007, 07:21:

Well, when people have an argument, reason is tossed aside, Simon. I love Borges. In fact, he may be my favorite Spanish author. But ask any spanish writer what they think of Juan Rulfo. Everyone would give their right arm to have written Pedro Páramo. Not to mention Octavio Paz or Carlos Fuentes. For me both Mexico and Argentina have a lot going for them. As a culture, Mexico has a much stronger flavor and definition than Argentina, partly because it is much older, and because the extermination of its indian roots was not as thorough as in Argentina, where the genocide of indians was only surpassed by the U.S. As for soccer, Mexico is a footnote, whereas Argentina is a huge pool of tallent. High quality players are a dime a dozen there. Name one GREAT Mexican player (yeah, Sanchez), or a great Colombian player (el Pibe). Tht's it! The rest are forgettable. I can give you a long list of Argentinians going back 60 years..

Remember names like Pedernera, Di'Steffano, Corbata, Ardiles, Kempes, Marzolini, CARRIZO (greatest goalie ever), Pastoriza, Basilico, Batistuta, Maradona? That's 100 proof class.

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bueno_pues says on Jul 7, 2007, 09:18:

Era un comentario muy sensible y razonado, Jaramillo.

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 12:48:

Hey! mi madre es colombiana, mi padre argentino y yo (por accidente) nací en México... tiene alguna razón esta discusión?. Yo respeto a la gente que le gusta Argentina, Colombia o México... pero vos decíme qué tiene que ver si México es más grande que Argentina? Acaso sos unos pibes? CADA PAIS ES ÚNICO!!!! POR QUÉ NO LO ENTIENDEN? Si prefieren a Argentina sobre Colombia o México... FANTÁSTICO, lo que me parece más absurdo es que para defender su opinión no tengan mejor herramientas que decir: "los mexicanos son muchos aquí en USA y por ellos los demás latinos tienen derechos" y peor aún contestar: " entonces China sería el país más importante del mundo!" POR FAVOR!!!

En fútbol en América Latina los mejores equipos por "tradición" son Argentina y Brasil... los mexicanos igual que los colombianos juegan como nunca pero pierden como siempre.

Colombia es un país que está haciendo la diferencia en Latinoamérica, porque ya no es lo mismo que hace 6 años, está cambiando y para bien!, Argentina se está recuperando económicamente pero va lento... México está cerca de EU y por eso es importante en ciertos rubros por ejemplo en el del entretenimiento porque todo aquél que quiere conquistar América Latina va a México primero y quien quiere conquistar EU conquista México primero, vean a Shakira que usó a México como trampolín... y los tres países tienen muchos problemas de pobreza... . He vivido en los tres países y esto es con lo que me quedo.

1. Me quedo con los paisajes y el clima de Colombia
2. Me quedo con la gastronomía Mexicana
3. Me quedo con la gente colombiana (los argentinos somos muy mamones y nos creemos europeos, he escuchado a argentinos arrogantes que dicen que los argentinos somos lo mejor de Latino América) y los mexicanos muy pasivos, los aplastan y nunca dicen nada, mientras haya tequila y mujeres, lo demás que se vaya al carajo!
4. Me quedo con la música colombiana, la mexicana apesta y sobre todo la música norteña y de banda (qué ceba)
5. Me quedo con el rock argentino.
6. En literatura me quedo con los tres países, Octavio Paz, Jorge Luis Borges y Gabriel García Márquez. Se producen buenas cosas en los tres.
7. Me quedo con la hospitalidad mexicana y colombiana.
8. Aun con todo esto yo estoy muy orgulloso de ser colombiano-argentino-mexicano ... tengo las tres nacionalidades..
9. en fútbol me quedo con ARGENTINA porque su técnica es mejor y por mucho a la de México!!!!

Me digusta profundamente que algunos colombianos se quiten la camisa por defender otros países, acaso no se sienten colombianos? puede ser que tengan preferencia por algunos países porque creen que tienen cierta afinidad con Colombia, pero el día que los colombianos dejemos de sentirnos mártires por toodo lo que sufrimos ese día vamos a ver lo hermoso y único que es nuestro país!

Elección no canonización....

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Simon says on Jul 7, 2007, 13:16:

Gabolicious,

Bienvenido a este foto y gracias por ese aporte tan interesante!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 14:04:

Bienvenido al foro de Colombia!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 14:22:

Gracias por la bienvenida =P

Elección no canonización....

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 15:54:

Jaramillo said:

"As for soccer, Mexico is a footnote, whereas Argentina is a huge pool of tallent. High quality players are a dime a dozen there. Name one GREAT Mexican player (yeah, Sanchez), or a great Colombian player (el Pibe). Tht's it! The rest are forgettable. I can give you a long list of Argentinians going back 60 years."

Remember names like Pedernera, Di'Steffano, Corbata, Ardiles, Kempes, Marzolini, CARRIZO (greatest goalie ever), Pastoriza, Basilico, Batistuta, Maradona? That's 100 proof class.

And

Bueno Pues said:

'Era un comentario muy sensible y razonado, Jaramillo."


And I have to agree. Or to state it another way...when you think of the greatest soccer teams throughout time, Argentina, with out a doubt, has to be listed in the top 5 teams. However, when I was not comparing Mexico to Argentina. I was comparing Mexico to Colombia. Colombia does not rank with the likes of Argentina, Brazil, Spain, England, German, and of course, Italy. As much as I am not particularly fond of France from a political perspective (let's not get into that) even France has a better record as a solid achiever than Colombia.

I only ask this question again, who here thinks that Colombia, with it's present tean, is even close to being competitive team during the up and coming 2010 World Cup elimination matches. Then answer is they are not. They are going to look pitifull if some changes are not made soon. And like I also said earlier, early losses in the 2 years plus of eliminations are unacceptable. Colombia was looking and regretting those early loses as when they missed qualifying.......last time by less than one win....just one win would have made the difference. Don't believe me, it's not an issue for debate. Just check for yourselves



.

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 17:10:

OK that's pretty different... con todo respeto.... in that case you should've said from the beginning "Colombia's team needs new blood"... Why the hell compare Colombia team to Mexicans?. I think that this colombian team (very bad by the way) does not represent the whole Colombian football players, that's why I think it is important to look for new talented people, and a new coach. But most important we must keep our head held high, it is worthless to waste time looking who to blame, if this coach and these players didnt' work, it's fine... then LET'S LOOK FOR ANOTHER TEAM. A COLOMBIAN TEAM WHO REALLY WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL. PLEASE DO NOT COMPARE COLOMBIA TO ANOTHER COUNTRY... AGAIN PLEASE G5 IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPARE COLOMBIA TO A GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM DO NOT COMPARE THEM TO MEXICAN, CAUSE MEXICO'S TEAM ES MUY MEDIOCRE HERMANO. MEXICO HAS BEAUTIFUL THINGS, BUT FOOTBALL .... GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

Elección no canonización....

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bueno_pues says on Jul 7, 2007, 17:15:

En la noche me gusta mirar los partidos de La Liga Mexicana especialmente cuando ellos muestran un partido de Guadalajara. Las mujeres alli son maravillosas.

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 17:24:

you may have a point there hehehehehe. I know this forum is about colombia but, the italian singer Tiziano Ferro said "las mujeres de México son bigotonas" and I say "bigotonas pero bonitas" hahahahahahaha yes there are beautiful mexican women. Maybe he said so cause he likes men(?) I don't know ...

Elección no canonización....

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 17:25:

Gaboicious, tienes mucha razon sobre las comparaciones, pero esto tipo es asi todo el tiempo con la misma vaina.
Buen_pues bienvendo al foro de COLOMBIA.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 19:13:

Gabolicious, you said:

"yes there are beautiful mexican women. "

I'll have to tell you, from living in a city with Mexican women all over the place, you are going to have to look long and hard to find many beautiful Mexican women. I am on this forum defending just about everything Mexican all the time. But their women???? Look, I have been to GDL, Jalisco over a 10 times, because friend of mine teaches at University of Guadalajara. Yes, you are quite right. The women from that part of the country....slightly tanned skin, huge round eyes, long legs, nautural light brown hair, thick beautiful lips......are gorgeous and plentiful. BTW, they can be quite friendly.....not quite as forward and open as Colombian women. But man, the rest of the country....hell. Most are short, no shape, no colas, .....just too much indiginous features. They make great wives and would do anything you can for their husbands....son muy fiel realemente. pero ......son feas....sorry

Why do you think all these gringos are running to Colombia. Google the words "Colombian women"
and do the same with "Mexican women" and that will tell ya where the gringos are going, and it is not because they like the soccer team, or for any other reason. In fact, most Mexicans here will admit that their women don't rank with Colomibianas. That must be hard for them to admit, but they readily do so......

One more point.
Now ya got it. I agree with you. Colombia has to have better people that can really make Colombia a competitive team. I just think the coach, has to go. And........most importantly, they have to remove POLITICS from the selection proccess. A few years ago, at the Chicago Latin American film festival, I saw a great movie from Brazil. It showed the proccess that is used to recruit for the National team. Think about it. Does anybody really believe that Brazil just because they are Brazil, by definition has and always will have the best soccer team in South America or one of the best in the world? It makes no sense. It all starts with recruitment, development, and the implementation to put select players on a track to be the most competitive players in the country. If I can find that movie, which is in Portugese with English sub titles, I'll let you guys know about it. In fact, I would be glad to buy it and send it to whoever heads up the selection of Colombia's national team and just maybe they can learn something. Look, you can argue with me G5 all you want, but you cannot argue with the continued and ongoing success of the Brazilian national soccer team. One thing the movie made very clear. The process is void of politics. No favoritism. No nepotism. It's a team of experts that independently score candidates, and then subsequently make decision based on performance. That says a lot. I lot that Colombia better learn fast, or 2010 is going to come again, and Colombia will once again be looking behind.

Face it, Colombia, has missed two world cups and when that happens, you cannot call yourself one of the best in the world. Oh sure some people on this forum will want to believe so, but these are the same person that will tell you that Colombia is as safe a country to tour in as Costa Rica.

Remember this line: You are half way on the way to solving a problem once you acknowledge the problem in the first place. If you can't, then nothing changes, and the problem continues

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 19:46:

How about you listen carefully to what Gabolouciuos just stated and you will learn something about Colombian soccer. If Colombia wants to be a competetive team they need to learn to have faith in themselves, they need to have self pride, none of that BS of colombianos voltia arepas.
Colombian players and Colombians alike need to have the pride that the Argentinians have and as Gabolicious said, "But most important we must keep our head held high.."

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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jaramillo says on Jul 7, 2007, 19:53:

There is no point in hating comparisons when it comes to soccer. The point of a soccer game IS a comparison. These two comparisons (Paraguay 5- Colombia 0, Argentina 4-Colombia 2) say it all.

I'm with Gomez, I think the Colombian coach (Pinto) is a maroon. Not a chance in hell they'll classify with this team.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 20:05:

"Faith in themselves"? "self pride?" Huh? Monpirri, what are you drining this evening. That is about as rediculous as the liberals around the world saying, "we need to just talk to our enemies, and find a solution". Yea sure, people who are committed to killing you because of who you are, and what you believe in can be "talked to". How do you talk to someone that has no interest in talking to you.

Monpirri, you make no sense. Faith my ass. Brazil has a time tested program for making good teams and trust me mister, it has NOTHING to do with faith or self confidence. If these players have confidence problems, then let them go see a psychologist. Building a national team is about aquiring players that ALREADY have confidence, and know how to perform. I don't remember seeing any part of that movie about the Brazilian team that talked about faith and self confidence. Go see the movie. You CANNOT argue with success, and there is not a person in the wordl that can talk about their success....not one person. Just look at Brazil today. They won agian 6-1. This is a team loaded with TALENT AND DEPTH....Depth monpirri. You know what that is? Obviously not. I'll explain. Cafu', Emilson (not Emerson as someone wrote) , Carlos, Ronaldinho.......4 of the best soccer players in the world. 4 who play for the Brazilian team.....none of them are in Venezuela righ now. And still Brazil, is able to come up with a bunch of "no names" to win every game so far, and destroy Chile today. Yep.....depth....that is what it is called.

Faith and self confidence.....save that for the church or your shrink.

Yea Mompirri....why don't you listen??

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 20:15:

you old farts need glasses if you have never seen an ugly Colombiana....there is tons of them in Colombia and in the US......not every colombian women is a 10, there are quite a few 4 baggers, too.......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 20:26:

Miguel, you are right!!!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 21:13:

Sure there are a lot of Colombianas. Where do you see in my post where it says that I never had seen an UGLY Colombian woman. In fact, I did not even remotely infer something like that. Neither did anyone else for that matter. Read what people write, not what you want to see.

And of course Monpirri (Mr Faith and Confidence) agrees with you. And you're the one with sound advice for the Colombian soccer team......

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:23:

muy bien aquí voy otra vez... lamento ser nuevo en este foro y participar de esta manera, pero.. este es mi punto de vista.

a) El punto es que Colombia con el equipo que tiene de fútbol no va a ir a ningún lado.
b) efectivamente con jugadores talentosos y que no se dejen intimidar por camisetas como las de brasil, argentina o de equipos tan mediocres como méxico. tendrán un desempeño excelente. si sos bueno en algo y pero no tenés confianza en vos, tampoco llegás a ningún lado... en méxico hay un dicho que dice: "no importa que tan tonto seas, mientras creas que puedes hacer algo bueno, ya es un punto a tu favor" y de nuevo digo... talento mas confianza = éxito, los jugadores argentinos y brasileños no solo son buenos sino también confian en su capacidad, imaginate si yo soy bueno en algo pero no creo en mi capacidad entonces estoy jodido! Creo que si algo caracteriza a los equipos buenos es también su actitud, ejemplo mirá a argentina o brasil, cuando habés visto que tiemblan ante algún rival?
c) tal vez mexico este teniendo buen desempeño en la copa america, pero son un equipo mediocre porque JAMAS son constantes... cosa que no pasa con los verdaderos equipos, habra ocasiones en las que pierdan pero esa no es una constante en ellos... con los equipos mexicanos eso no pasa... lo siento.
d) Jaramillo eso no es una comparacion, eso es el marcador final de un partido de fútbol, comparacion sería "la técnica del equipo colombiano es diferente o similar a la de argentina por..." independientemente del marcador, porque como sabés éste a veces no refleja necesariamente la técnica.
e) Hay mujeres hermosas en mexico, sí señor, aunque la gente dice que las más hermosas están en Argentina (no me gustan, demasiado europeas), Brasil, Venezuela y Colombia, en ese orden... YY?????? el gusto se rompe en géneros, efectivamente mexico no es muy famoso por tener las mujeres más hermosas, eso es cierto, pero no significa que no las haya hermano... que en carácter son diferentes, por supuesto!!! unas son mexicanas (con una cultura) y las otras colombianas (otra cultura) pero ninguna mejor que otras, y si a vos le gusta más las colombianas que las mexicanas que bien por usted (espero que no haya otro argentino en este foro porque de lo contrario sabrás lo que es arrogancia con respecto a belleza) simplemente son diferentes... aunque hay muy pocas mujeres con rasgos indígenas que son hermosas, eso no significa que éstas no puedan ser hermosas...
d) de nuevo si de comparar se trata con el afán de mejorar, por favor no hablen de México, aunque gane la copa america esta ocasion, no se puede decir que son buenos hasta que su participacion en el mundial de fútbol sea constante en las semifinales, ya no digas en las finales.
e)no quiero parecer intolerante, respeto de verdad vuestros puntos de vista, cada quien habla de acuerdo a su perspectiva. El ser realistas con situaciones de nuestro país no significa necesariamente agachar la cabeza y dejarnos insultar, como el malparido de Vallejo, si le gusta mexico tal vez sea porque le dieron un hueso (es español mexicano: un cargo público o buen trabajo) pero porqué diablos tiene que hablar tan mal de su patria? y lo mismo pasa acá si les fue mal en Colombia agradezcan que pudieron emigrar a otro país y que les vaya bien pero no insulten con comparaciones tan absurdas y sin sentido.

Lo lamento pero también llevo el espíritu colombiano en las venas y a mi pais se respeta...

Elección no canonización....

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:31:

"I'll have to tell you, from living in a city with Mexican women all over the place, you are going to have to look long and hard to find many beautiful Mexican women." G5

no, you (G5 and Simon) were bitching about ugly mexican women....as if there is not ugly colombian women......what a joke.......i pointed out that there are ugly mexican women, ugly colombian women, ugly american women, ugly female lawyers, ugly female cops, etc...the list goes on and on and on and on and on.....get it? good. =) you blind people apparently only see 10's in Colombia, well, there are alot of -10's as well....in all countries......and unless you actually have conducted a survey of ugly vs 10's in all these countries and cities, then you are spewing hot air out the other blowhole......=)......makes me wonder what you guys see as a 10......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Monpirri says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:32:

Gabolicious, bravo bravisimooooooo!!!!!!!!!
Oye sabes hay un argentino muy buena persona con todos y tiene un gran conocimiento del futbol de sudamerica espero que lo conozcas, es una berraquera tambien como vos.
No se, pero hace tiempo que no lo veo por pbh.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:32:

"I'll have to tell you, from living in a city with Mexican women all over the place, you are going to have to look long and hard to find many beautiful Mexican women." G5

no, you (G5 and Simon) were bitching about ugly mexican women....as if there is not ugly colombian women......what a joke.......i pointed out that there are ugly mexican women, ugly colombian women, ugly american women, ugly female lawyers, ugly female cops, etc...the list goes on and on and on and on and on.....get it? good. =) you blind people apparently only see 10's in Colombia, well, there are alot of -10's as well....in all countries......and unless you actually have conducted a survey of ugly vs 10's in all these countries and cities, then you are spewing hot air out the other blowhole......=)......makes me wonder what you guys see as a 10......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:34:

BUTTTTT.....(M_C!).... there are BMW's....(Big Mexican Women!) but...... there are few, few..... BMC's.... (Big Colombian Women)....

Now, let me read the remainder of your post....;)

Where do we go from here?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:38:

sorry....i added Simon in error to that last post,....sorry, simon....

sorry, there are alot of fat colombian women..... pay attention next time.....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:41:

no. there's not. I did. And, I do. All of the itme. Time.

Where do we go from here?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:43:

time for glasses.......or self-imposed prohibition.......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:46:

por cierto, me agrada que la actitud hacia mexico sea positiva por parte de algunos foristas, eso dira que tal vez hayan tenido una buena experiencia con la gente mexicana o con el pais en si... pero no sean tan intolerantes como para juzgar colombia de una manera tan despectiva por defender vuestra afinidad con mexico...

Elección no canonización....

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goin_south says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:47:

I rarely see fat colombian people. with, or without glasses.

Where do we go from here?

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:50:

'no, you (G5 and Simon) were bitching about ugly mexican women....as if there is not ugly colombian women......what a joke.......i pointed out that there are ugly mexican women, ugly colombian women, ugly american women, ugly female lawyers, ugly female cops, etc...the list goes on and on and on and on and on.....get it? good. =) you blind people apparently only see 10's in Colombia, well, there are alot of -10's as well....in all countries......and unless you actually have conducted a survey of ugly vs 10's in all these countries and cities, then you are spewing hot air out the other blowhole......=)......makes me wonder what you guys see as a 10......=)'


Clavo, is this your version of fuzzy math?

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:53:

sorry, did i upset you? fuzzy math????....no math involved.....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gabolicious says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:56:

Monpirri solo espero que el otro argentino no sea "sencillito y carismático" como lo somos todos los argentinos jajajajajaja es broma... pero recordá que yo también soy colombiano igual que vos... aunque me escuche argentino =P

Elección no canonización....

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:56:

Upset........I think the fact that it's a Saturday night and I (we) are fooling around on this web site is more reason to be upset. On the other hand, I don't know who is in your company right now. It could be some short, wide, fat, pan assed Mexican woman that is going to make your dream come true.ha ha ha

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 7, 2007, 22:59:

wait a minute....is that not how you previously described yourself in a thread...??? but bald as well?.....nope, no fat ones for me......but i have seen plenty short, fat, pan asses colombian women ......i avoid them, but will leave them to you.......my gift to you.....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Monpirri says on Jul 8, 2007, 05:17:

Gabolicious, Che Lucas es una berraquera de persona y tiene mucho conocimiento sobre nuestros paises de Latino America. El tambien no tolera abuso contra las mujeres y el defiende muy bien a la Argentina, como tu sabes hay muchas personas que viven intimidados por los que tienen ciertas cualidades pero el sabe como enfrentarlos con inteligencia.
Sabes yo estuve en la Argentina con un contracto con la Kraft Foods y encontre a los argentinos muy sociales y amigables, nada de esa foto que muestran aqui algunos tipos.

Monpirri

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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jaramillo says on Jul 8, 2007, 06:39:

Oye Monpirri, who tolerates abuse against women here?

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gabolicious says on Jul 8, 2007, 08:33:

sabés una cosa Monpi? yo vivio en México y trabajo con muchos argentinos y casi todos son arrogantes, pero una vez que se acoplan a la gente de aquí... terminan sintiéndose mexicanos (claro menos futbolísticamente hablando), en todos lados hay gente mamona y los estigmas siguen: los argentinos mamones, los mexicanos "gandallas" (abusivo), y vos sabés que estigma cargamos los colombianos. Efectivamente hay gente mamona en Argentina como lo hay en Mexico y Colombia. Hay gente gandalla en Colombia y Argentina etc. A veces creo que los latinos somos muy crueles con nosotros mismos, imagináte que sería de nosotros los latinos si nos uniéramos para salir adelante... como decimos en méxico seríamos "chingones" (muy buenos) y nadie estaría metiendo las manos para que entre nosotros nos estuviéramos peleando... sé que esto no es parte del tema que se toca en este foro pero eso de las Islas de San Andrés como vós sabes tienen un trasfondo político y estoy seguro que alguna potencia mundial está metiendo las manos en el asunto. Disculpá si soy reiterativo pero insisto, necesitamos sacudirnos ese complejo de inferioridad urgentemente... espero tener la oportunidad de conocerlos en persona ahora cuando vaya a Bogotá y nos podemos tomar una botella de tequila y una caja de aguardiente...no sabés que falta me hacen unas arepas con guiso o una exquisita bandeja paisa.... jejejejejeje vos sos buenos tipos...

Elección no canonización....

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