Colombia’s social class

daver says on Aug 23, 2004, 22:10:

***How does Colombia breakdown the social classes?***

Lets see. Rich, middle class, and poor. Crazy eh?

***What type of interaction is their between the different classes and what do they think of each other (in general)?***

As far as what they think of each other, it is the same as anywhere:

The rich want to remain rich, and keep the other classes where they are. The middle class wants to be rich. The poor want everything divided up equally.

As far as the interaction, I would think that there is much less interaction between the classes as compared to North America or Europe.

As far as marriage, maybe between rich and middle-class, but very rarely would a rich or middle class person marry a poor person.

In addition to the economic division, Colombians seem to have a "high-class" and "low-class"... at least the middle-class and rich think so.

You could have 20 experts write 20 books on this subject, and they wouldn't agree... a very broad subject.

Dave

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elmodefoque says on Aug 24, 2004, 06:28:

I hate to say this but from what I’ve seen from my very own family and friends in Colombia there’s definitely a real bad case of social and class prejudice. The line, better yet, the wall is so clear between the “rich Colombians” and the low lives that they never socialize, at all. Maybe is my leftist believes, stuff I picked up living in the village late 60’s early 70’s , but I can’t stand those so called Colombian upper middle class to rich. I have many family members that fall into that category and they know where I stand, they know not to invite me to their pris pris social gatherings cause I aint coming! If you’re not having loud music, with papayera, in a run down neighborhood, I ain’t coming! If regular people of low income, the kind that could really get a party going by dancing their ass off and those people are not invited, I ain’t coming! If you’re not having wall to wall wild women with plenty of booze and drugs, I ain’t coming!
The kind of bull you hear a lot in these social family gathering in well to do Colombian family, is always the same crap, “Carlos Alberto is finishing pre-med and John Jairo is getting he’s engineering degree next month”, who freaking cares, with all those degrees they’ll still be making a fraction of what a sanitation guy makes in NYC. “I just got back from Venice and next year I’m planning a trip to Thailand”, who freaking cares? I tell them, if you offer me a round way ticket to Paris overlooking the Eiffel tower with unlimited amount French toast, French fries and fried frog legs I would be very grateful but I will immediately exchange to Colombia or Florida. Hey, I ain’t got no class or education, just look at my graymmer. Boy, I could go on for ever cause this a subject that hits a really sensitive spot. I could tell you stuff I’ve seen and heard that will make your jaw drop to the floor.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Wingman says on Aug 24, 2004, 08:55:

Odd Colombian “Stratosphere” -Right on “Elmo-deFoque”!!! Got a “kick” out of your comments on “Colombia’s Social Class”. Somehow, I sense you are either Colombian or of Colombian background for your insights on Colombian “stratospheric” society ARE so true & realistic. Sad BECAUSE INDEED A SAD SIDE OF COLOMBIA IT IS, this topic “holds much water”. IE; As an American Military Veteran, I have not even seen the disgusting vulgarity differences within American Military ranks. Officers & Enlisted each have their own turf to attend BUT, at the “end of the day” we can all share experiences with family & friends, on a one to one basis, regardless of rank-“stratos”.
-Have had countless Colombians friends in my lifetime. As with any culture; there are the “Good, the Bad & the Ugly”. Visiting Colombia on several occasions however, and am soon relocating to Bogotá, I’ve noticed the acute sense of importance the so called “Higher-Stratos” place on themselves as if they were “God-Lords”.
-When you mention the part of; ““Carlos Alberto is finishing Pre-Med & John Jairo is getting he’s Engineer’s Degree next month”, who freaking cares, with all those degrees…… hahahahahaha -LOL– this reminds me of a very, very, vey nice interesting meeting I attended at the Bogotá Chamber of Commerce. The main speaker mentioned the cases of “higher” Colombian “stratos” & the arrogance placed on their respective degrees vs the fine jobs later they “conquer” putting down the “Ferretero” because this man was “only” a Hardware Store person. Economy notwithstanding, little by little, majority of these “higher” Colombian “stratos” start loosing jobs & some get shifted out due to downsizings.
-And what about the humble “ferretero”? Well this “poor-low-strato” miserable "SOB" has done so well he now has stores all over the Capital & soon opening a new one at a neighborhood near “you”.
-Conclusion: How stupid can the Colombian “higher-class” be? USA is NOT perfect, let’s admit it. But for the most part of all Colombian friends that have made our country their home, humble as the always continue to be, majority live very well off conducting legitimate businesses without the slightest memory of the so called stupid “stratospheric” Colombian structure.

Que Viva Colombia...

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 24, 2004, 09:59:

It ain't so simple It's my experience that Colombian class stratification breaks down along much finer lines than simply upper class, middle class and poor. A Colombian friend of mine who would be considered upper class but has a strong egalitarian streak once graphed it out for me: There's about 7 distinct "classes" and then within the classes there are a lot of distinctions, too, like the "Strata 11" jetsetting beautiful people of the extreme upper class, or the way the poor divide themselves as city people, campesinos, desplazados and so on.

It's all too much for me to worry about and, luckily, foreigners seem to be exempt from much of the rigid class boundaries.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 24, 2004, 10:47:

Wingman, I’m as Colombian as they come, but please don’t get me started with that.
In my yearly visits to Colombia especially the last 5 years, my elitist part of the family knows better than to invite me to their homes. They know that I could be a real mean, nasty drunk and will tell them off in a NY minute. I could insult them in English or Spanish, or both at the same time, their choice. Their favorite phrase when they see me like that, “le salio el Indio” meaning my Indian blood is showing” well, it has never gone away, is always present ready to retaliate.
Wingman, glad to see that you are very observant and are able to pick up the good and bad in human behavior, good for you.
Hollywood, egalita...... what? What the hell does that mean? Be a little gentle with your words, people like me who barely made it thru high school get a little frazzle with words like that.
Visitors to Colombia especially from USA, Canada and Europe are treated by well to do Colombians like royalty, at the same time they will deny a woman carrying a hungry child a handout with out even blinking. .

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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mzzmerized says on Aug 24, 2004, 12:00:

the class system at work I was once at a latin-jazz bar in Cali without about 10 or 12 Colombian friends (male and female). The music was really hot and I was so impressed with the sax player I invited him to our table for a drink...WELL!!! My friends were so mad at me for inviting a "musico" to sit at our table, one of them left in disgust. I was astounded! In Canada a jazz musician (or any kind) would be welcome anywhere...but not in Cali!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 24, 2004, 15:01:

Stinginess toward the poor Yeah, the stinginess toward the poor by a lot of upper class Colombians really makes me mad, especially when they make up elaborate conspiracy theories about how these people begging in the street aren't really poor and that it's all an elaborate scam, etc. Sure, I guess these people just gave up their glamorous, highly paid jobs as investment bankers and lawyers to hang out begging on the street with a baby and a couple grubby kids, just hoping to make 15,000 pesos if they're lucky.

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ColombianoX says on Aug 24, 2004, 16:16:

"Visitors to Colombia especially from USA, Canada and Europe are treated by well to do Colombians like royalty, at the same time they will deny a woman carrying a hungry child a handout with out even blinking."


I completely agree with Elmo on this. I find it despicable that these snobby colombians treat foreigners better than they would their fellow colombians. What mzzmerized said about his/her friends reactions to the musician sitting with them also turns my stomach. My people need to eradicate that backwards, classist mentality which only creates animosity among the different classes.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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pointofview says on Aug 24, 2004, 16:17:

CP$15.000 Dear Mr. Hollywood:

In Medellin I wish it was that easy to come home with 15.000 in a day. Six years ago I saw my ex-girlfriend's father lose his business (and the adjoining business) to a car bomb that destroyed both businesses reducing him almost overnight (within a few months) to driving a taxicab to make a little money to meeting the families living expenses. On average after paying for the rental of the taxi, filling it with gas and having it washed he would return home fourteen hours later with 25.000 pesos in his pocket for his day's effort.

He lost everything economically but preserved and saved the best and most valuable thing he had (his family) who rose to the occassion and all pitched in to make ends meet. That's reality in Colombia as you already know probably better than me.

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villdkatta says on Aug 24, 2004, 16:51:

Does anyone know.... how hard is it to move up from the poor class in Colombia to the middle class? I have a friend down there that I'm helping. He's 9 years old and very poor; the family lives in a house with wooden boards that are coming off and they tap into the public water supply for their water. I have nothing but high hopes for him if he does well in school but I don't want to give him false hopes, either. I just keep encouraging him to do well in school. I haven't told him yet, but I'm going to pay for his college (eh, just add him onto the list of my kids, I'll be working till I'm 80 but it'll be worth it. One more won't make a difference).

I grew up poor (by American standards) and do pretty well now (even though I would have done better faster if someone would have helped me). It wasn't easy, but it wasn't impossible. I'm hoping my friend in Manizales has the same experience and I would do anything to help make it come true.

Kim

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daver says on Aug 24, 2004, 17:46:

Don't Colombians have to go through an "interview" before they are amitted to cetain colleges? I think my fiance mentioned something like that. Even if the 9 year old boy you are help has the money, he may get turned down by certain schools if the find out his history...

She was even telling me that for a job, you have a "home" interview where they pop by and ask you personal questions. My fiance just got a new job and they asked why she was not married at 28, why her parents are divorced, if she was pregnant or not, why she changed universities, why she had a tatoo, why her brother lives with her mother and her with her father, why her sister was murdered... she had to go for medical tests (the basically checked to see if she was pregnant)...

Its seems like they were looking for something to discriminate against her... A lot of these questions are completely, 100% illegal in North America.... It seems like this is the legal means Colombian business has to discriminate against those they preceive as being lower class. Luckly, my fiance is preceived as high-class and she got the job... I feel horrible for the others....

Now she works 9.75 hours a day for a whopping 40,000 pesos/day.... and her job was considered to be highly sought after (she beat out 100s of people...)

Dave

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JamieJ says on Aug 24, 2004, 23:13:

Thanks for some of the specfics. I have also noticed a distain, for example, from women from educate families towards women that are not well off. Instead of judging them as individuals there is a prevalence to judge them based on their opinion of the rest of the group. This is not to say I believe there is anything noble about the lower class. The majority of the girls that I have seen who are uneducated and poor but appear to be kind and friendly change very quickly when they find an American who now is taking care of them in significant ways. They now become very arrogant and demanding themselves. It looks to me that many people here like the idea of giving orders and when they are able to do so they become no better than their masters in their uppity behavior toward others with less. No class has a monopoly on good behavior.
As for giving to the poor, this is an interesting topic. I did not have this perspective till I came here but I am beginning to see why there is this class structure and why the poor are treated by the other half as they are. I will spend more time learning and observing before I speak on this. But I will say it is a big mistake to think that people living in poverty in Colombia are just like regular folks in America but without money and opportunities. When you have ignorant parents raising children you end up with future adults who often are not able to take advantage of opportunities even when it’s placed in their hands. Asking for hand outs instead of a hand up is not the answer.

Jamie
Engage The Exotic

Jamie

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 05:01:

Villdkatta Poor to Middle Class I think that the answer to that question is that it is impossible and certainly rare that any Colombian could move more than one class (two at the most) in their lifetime. I have asked that question more than once to higher strata friends and that's always the answer I receive. People from lower strata level do not have the economic resources, support and the education to advance beyond (in most cases) one more level (two is very rare I'm told). Your skin color in large part determines your social placement, acceptance, job and economic opportunities certainly in Medellin and Bogota (much to my disgust).

In regards to education I guess that I see plenty of middle to lower strata people with a university education but the upper strata levels will have sent many of their children off to USA or other foreign schools (universities or colleges) of higher learning returning to Colombia with a "world class" education giving them a big leg up with their competition. Sure the Colombian universities are good but no subsitute for receiving your education in english (the international language of business).

Sometimes just an education itself is not enough you need a little help from your family, friends and government and in Colombia it may exist for lower to middle strata people but in very basic and limited forms.

I recently met a 24 year old professional real estate broker from a upper strata family that makes well in excess of US$100,000 a year but he's very very very good and owns his own real estate brokerage firm. USA university educated, speaks about four languages fluently and has all the connections at every level. He would survive and prosper in NYC so being on his own turf is a peice of cake.

If you are a foreign citizen the greatest gift you could give that child is to adopt him (if the parents would consent) as it would give him another citizenship and passport to economic freedom if he ever wanted the option. Another option is placing him perhaps in Panama for his higher education but with residence status that could lead to Panamanian citizenship and passpost increasing his chances of a VISA approval for developed countries.

God bless you for what you are doing for this boy and you will see your reward in his face forever.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Aug 25, 2004, 05:53:

bootstrap examples in Colombia There are a million examples in the U.S. of people that came from very humble origins and through brains, luck, hard work or a good idea rose to prominence in their chosen field.



Does Colombia have people that might be considered "rags to riches" stories? To use a few recent examples, who is their Bill Clinton (poor, broken family), Colin Powell (poor immigrant), Madeline Albright (Jewish, fled the Nazis), Andy Grove (Jewish, fled the Communists, founded Intel), Marc Andreessen (developed a browser, founded Netscape while in college)?

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 06:10:

Tinto Good Question I would be interested in the Colombian response to your question. I have asked it and been told each time that it couldn't and hasn't happened in Colombians class society. I am sure to some degree there must be stories and I too would like to hear them. I think the capital concentration (big capital) is so closely controlled by so few people (families) any good idea requiring financing or capital is probably pirated by the rich or more well to do.

Colin Powell wouldn't have had a chance in Colombia (except to serve in the Military). Maybe a Colombian can tell us of one black face that the president of Colombia has appointed in his cabinet. Colin Powell might have had difficultity finding a good job in the private sector in Colombia because he's black. Cali has a black or mixed race mayor elected by the people so maybe there is hope.

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Elbigie says on Aug 25, 2004, 06:42:

Dulce Coyaima Indiana As a Colombian I agree with most of your comments -not so sure about the Panama thing though-. I would say that social discrimination occurs all over Latin America -sorry about the generalisation-, being perhaps Cuba the exception . In Colombia there is wide spread fixation with "bad imported models" , that usually we embrace quite easily. I reckon the most disgusting thing about our Colombian society is the social "arribismo" of the middle class -plenty of those in my family- and the indifference of the upper. Racism which is also a characteristic of our society. If you want to insult someone in Col. just call that person “indio”.. That will do.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 07:03:

I was one of those kids shun by Colombian elite. If my father had not brought us here (NYC) when I was 9 years old, I’ll still be selling “butiffarras”, maybe selling “tinto” or “lottery” or maybe had a real nice job like driving a bus. In Colombia unlike the USA the poor are not given a chance and their life will be poverty for him and his future generations, not because they’re stupid or lazy but because they came from poverty and that’s where they belong according to the Colombian wealthy. You will never see a Collin Powell, a Candela Rice an Oprah, a Jennifer Lopez (my favorite) and John Legizamo and many, many, many more. They all came from poor to lower middle class in USA standard, but they took advantage of the unlimited chances offered to them and succeeded.
Hollywood, you are absolutely correct, the wealthy justify mistreatment of the poor by saying that is all an elaborate scam and they aren’t really poor.
Now when I go back they treat me different, and invite me all over the place, and I get to see how they treat and talk about the poor, first hand. But the last few trips I have completely cut them from my circle and told them “FU assholes, sonamanbiches, take yourself and that polo shirt and go FU yourself, you FUing FU. Another way I get even is to take their daughters, the same ones the once looked at me with disgust but now find me interesting, but only because I’ve got a few lousy dollars in my pocket. I like to get them drunk, drugged up and put them on all fours and make them squeal like pigs (a la “deliverance”), that really brings me great satisfaction. The ideal scenario would be to videotape the entire event. Imagine the face on those upper strata insignificant , important only in their little third world mentality, when they see their very lovely ,delicious, usa educated and fine daughters screaming like pigs for a freaking, disgusting, malpario, low life guajiro. Now that's Justice!!
I will say no more about this subject but I want to make one last statement. I love the hell outta my country and especially love all the hard working, honest, hospitable, generous, caring, fun loving( no matter the situation) and the poor that make up MOST in this incredible fascinating nation. And FU all from strato 5 and up.
wait, i'll take that back. i've got my mom living in strato 6, FU all from strato 7 and up.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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ColombianoX says on Aug 25, 2004, 10:28:

There are also colombian "rags to riches" stories! For those of you who wanted to know about some colombian "rags to riches stories', here's a few. Bogotá current mayor Lucho Garzon is not from some wealthy family, in fact he's the son of a housekeeper. Bogota's ex-mayor, Antanas Mockus is the son of Lithuanian immigrants and he rose to occupy what is considered Colombia's second-most important elected office. Carlos Valderrama and Faustino Asprilla were dirt-poor and became world-class footballers through their skills. Asprilla, who is black, even had a seven figure salary (in dollars) when he was playing in europe. Shakira, who also comes from an immigrant family, came from a middle-class family from Barranquilla and look where she is now. Gabriel Garcia Marquez was also poor and through his brilliance became a Nobel laureate. I'm sure there are more but those are the ones that quickly come to mind.


"Maybe a Colombian can tell us of one black face that the president of Colombia has appointed in his cabinet."

No, but he has elected more women to his cabinet than any other president in history, I believe that six of the thirteen cabinet members are women. How many women are there in your country's cabinet?


People, don't try to make Colombia out to be a racist society when in your own countries black people used to be hung from trees and there are idiots who still dress up in white sheets and preach white supremacy!



ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:04:

ColombianoX la Defensor I can't help it if the president likes women !!! But non of them are black !!! Seriously, I work with one of those women you refer to and she is brillant and extremely capable (of course she's a paisa from Medellin). I have met a number of very capable well educated business women in Colombia participating in Colombian business management at every level.

At least my country quit hanging the blacks 100 years ago but Colombia still is (economically). Even the USA fought the civil war in which almost 1,000,000 soldiers died or were wounded to settle the issue of slavery. How much blood has been spilled in Colombia defending the rights of blacks ? The only accomodation in Colombia I see for blacks is the law allowing caribbean people (almost totally black) and citizens from other latin american countries (all by birth) to gain resident status and Colombian citizenship within one year (accelerated) as compared to the five years required of other foreign immigrants.

There may be more racist societies in the Americans than Colombia but I have never visited them. The racist behavior is not material in the lower strata levels but in the larger companies (employers) and upper strata levels of Colombia a black is outcast in Medellin and Bogota (as examples) finding employment mostly as labors and domestic help. Sure there are exceptions but generally speaking the blacks are not equally treated.

I have seen enough employment rejection in Medellin because of skin color to know what's going on. Your president could be an example by appointing a black face to his cabinet or enforce the non discrimination laws that already exist in Colombia. You wouldn't enjoy being a black face sitting in front of a white paisa woman telling you that you are over qualified for the job but the company she represents (a major Colombian bank) does hire black people in Medellin, however, they are opening a branch soon in Quibdo and she could apply for that position.

I enjoyed your post regarding the "rags to riches" real life stories and would enjoy hearing more of them from everyone as they surface.

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Miguel says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:34:

I Hope Everyone On the board reads this thread, for it is full of insight. The story about the sax player being invited to sit with the customers hit home for me. I dated an ecuadoriana here in the states for a while and it really piqued my interest in re-learining Spanish. While at a Mexican restaurant, I started chatting with a waiter from Honduras in Spanish, and introduced her to him only to see her roll her eyes, walk away, and then later bust my balls to talking to the "help". Afortunadamente ahora tengo novia colombiana que no tienes esa problema. Y otra vez, good job Elmo and the rest of the crew here.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:37:

Hey POV, my man, you know exactly what you’re talking about. Maybe most Colombians here don’t see discrimination in Colombia the way I see it, due to their light skin color so such a thing is unheard off. But for me, a full blood Indio looking mother fucker, (picture again, in case you forgot). I’ve seen more discrimination against me in Colombia than I’ve gotten in the USA and I only been to Colombia on vacation between 3 weeks to a month every year. I’ve gone down south many times; I stopped in places for gas at 3AM, in the middle of South Carolina, off I-95 where they had a confederate flag that covered the whole damn store. After I paid my gas and dried my pants (I pee on myself from fear) I realize, hey, they were very nice and I really had no reason to fear them. Maybe because my daughter and I looked like local Indians (Choctaw, southern Cherokee etc.) I had no problem, but if were black or maybe a very Hispanic looking Colombian. things might be different. I will tell you what I’ve encounter in Colombia, but right now I’m kind of busy and really must turn in a report.
Before I forget I like to give a big ass FU to all the “padres” priest that hit me across my head for not believing.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:48:

Baseball star RENTERIA You guys missed one "rags to riches" story: Edgar Renteria is a very, very black Colombian baseball star who plays in the US. I'm sure he is a multi-millionaire by now.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:49:

he's still not allowed in some clubs in barranquilla

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 11:57:

He is bared from some restura He is barred from some resturants and clubs in Medellin as well which is probably why he decided to go to the USA and be a millionaire.

It's a good story Rico !!! It gives hope !!!

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:03:

Oh, really... I am sure Edgar Renteria has a nice, big water-front mansion in Miami, and he does not care one bit about entering clubs in Barranquilla or Medellin. Once you become a multi-millionaire in the USA, you have plenty of options on how to spend your money. There's also plenty of good-looking, blue-eyed blondes that want him in the sack badly! So he is not hurting, believe me! Most likely, he doesn't think much about Colombia nowdays!

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:07:

Yes, Edgar and Elmo on the prowl.

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ColombianoX says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:09:

Elmo,

Well, I guess my story is the opposite of yours because I am a hispanic-looking colombian-(north)american and I have been discriminated here in the USA many times because of my race or ethnicity. It's not that bad now that I'm grown up, but it sure wasn't easy when you were the only hispanic student in the classroom. Thank God there's always Colombia.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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ColombianoX says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:14:

"Most likely, he doesn't think much about Colombia nowdays!"

Rico,

Don't be ridiculous, Edgar Renteria always carries Colombia in his heart. And he also probably owns a nice mansion in Barranquilla as well.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:25:

Renteria has one hell of a mansion so does “el pibe” en el norte de Barranquilla not too far from each other and a few blocks from my moms place.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:27:

www.odee.com Odee.com is a Bogota-based marriage agency that specializes in white Colombian women that are highly educated. While looking at the girls, I noticed that most of the women desiring marriage do NOT mind men with "tanned skins." That, of course, is a code word for men that are dark skinned. Mind you, these are women who are doctors, dentists, lawyers and architects (not low-class dummies). That sure made an impact on me! I mean, it is the kind of "open mindedness" that I did not expect from the women of Bogota. Are things changing? Maybe they are. Who knows? At least, these women DO ACCEPT dark guys!!!

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JamieJ says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:30:

A handful of rags to riches stories for sport figures, entertainers and politicians doesn’t help the upper mobility of the poor nor are such stories unusual for such occupations. Its business and economic opportunities for the many that are meaningful.

Jamie
Engage The Exotic

Jamie

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:31:

Gotta take issue with this "But I will say it is a big mistake to think that people living in poverty in Colombia are just like regular folks in America but without money and opportunities. When you have ignorant parents raising children you end up with future adults who often are not able to take advantage of opportunities even when it’s placed in their hands. Asking for hand outs instead of a hand up is not the answer"

Man, where do you get this? There are 2 million Colombians displaced by the war. Unemployment is something like 17%. I sure that lots of people would rather have a hand up instead of a hand out, but from what I see in Colombia, hand's UP are really few and far between. And what makes a person ignorant just because they're poor?

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:38:

No “tanned skins” well there goes my chance of landing an educated white Colombian woman. I’m freaking tan all year round, even my balls are tanned.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:42:

What Renteria carries... I didn't express my self clearly above. So I will give it a 2nd try.

Edgar Renteria carries his Black Colombia and his family in his heart (not all of Colombia). I'm sure he does NOT love and appreciate the harsh prejudice he gets for being black. No human being can accept that kind of treatment without some resentment. That's what I meant. It's really a question of pride.

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 12:49:

Odee women DO accept... Elmo: Did you get it right? I don't think so.

Most Odee.com women accept men with tanned skins in marriage.

http://www.odee.com

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 13:00:

you mean, now, i got a chance to nail them? women like that, i love to make them squeal like pigs.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 13:07:

Only after marriage! You must marry them first. That's the hard part!!! I'm sure they will NOT give you much without a marriage certificate.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 25, 2004, 13:13:

Colombian X, when I was a young long hair hippie guy, most of my friends were American Indians from Oklahoma, South Dakota, New Mexico etc. even Canadian Indians. We used to hang out in a Hells Angels club/bar in Bowery Street, east village, Manhattan. Those guys hated everybody, (you probably would not be welcome there) buy they love Indian culture. I had the best time with them and got to nail a lot of their women, but I washed them down first.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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JamieJ says on Aug 25, 2004, 13:37:

Mr. Hollywood I never said you are ignorant if you are poor. But the fact is most poor people are ignorant. Do you disagree with this?

There is no shortage of unwed teenagers having children and you can not walk very far without seeing one asking for a hand out. Now if I see the troubles when young girls have children, wouldn’t you think other young girls and even children would see this daily in their neighborhoods and say, I am not going to let this happen to me. But it does happen and it is getting worse. You don’t see widespread ignorance playing into this equation?

I hear you criticizing the “stinginess” of the upper class Colombians for not giving. But are you going to criticize such women for making a choice most could of avoided? Are the rich now obligated to help this person because she chose this start to adulthood when throughout her life the repercussions for doing so surrounded her?

I am familiar with the displacement of Colombia and their present economic situation. I am sure many would prefer a hand up. But I have seen the end result of children growing up in impoverish situations without a complete or good education and in many cases under a fragmented family structure and what you end up with is a fairly helpless person. They let things happen instead of make things happen, they wish and hope instead of prepare and do, and when they are given the opportunity to learn and work they find excuses for doing neither. They were never taught the fundamentals of life which make them unable to function accept for in the most rudimentary ways. I indicated I was not ready to give a comprehensive opinion on this subject because I have only been familiar with Colombia over the last 3 years and I have only lived here for the last eight months, but what I have seen to date is not very encouraging for the future.
Jamie
Engage The Exotic

Jamie

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 25, 2004, 14:36:

ignorancia "Soy ignorante, pero no estúpida" was one of my mother-in-law's favorite expressions about herself. What she meant, of course, is that she lacked formal education, but not brains. She used the word "ignorant" in its true meaning as "lacking knowledge", nothing else.
At this time, I'd like to put in a good word for the much-suffered Colombian middle class. Yes, they have their shortcomings too, but they work hard, educate their children with sacrifice and often take care and assist poorer relatives. I know that my in-laws did. Being relatively well-off by the middle class Colombian standards they never forgot their humble beginnings (having moved up from lower middle to high-middle, from strata 3 to 5) through working six days a week, 10 hours a day, meticulous economic planning, thriftiness and shrewd investments. Yet they were extremely hospitable, generous and loving people.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 25, 2004, 15:31:

I really liked your comments, Desideria, and I must echo them about my wife's family. They are generous and try to treat everyone, rich and poor alike, with respect and kindness.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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villdkatta says on Aug 25, 2004, 16:18:

Elmo, you're scaring me.... with the Deliverance talk! :-o I do agree that Colombia certainly doesn't have the market on discrimination; there is plenty here in the USA and I am sorry about your experience. People that think they're morally superior to someone else just because their circumstances are different are petty, superficial people and I avoid them at all costs.

Pointofview - thanks so much for your kind words. I wish I could adopt him, but I think all his mother has is the love of her children; as much as I want to, I could never take that away from her. I'm going to try to get him in college in the USA. I know I went to college in the USA with lots of (impoverished) people from countries like Somalia, Ghana, etc. that had their college paid for and if they can do it, hopefully my friend can (although I will pay for my friend's education and not rely on the US government).

Sooooooo - what's a good thing to say to encourage people in a low strata without giving them false hope when you are trying to write positive, upbeat letters? I'm stuck on that one. I do want to instill the message that no one is better than him just because they may have more money, and to work hard in school. Can you think of any other types of encouraging words that wouldn't be seen as patronizing and/or offering false hope?

Muchas Gracias!

My Spanish class starts next month, and then I'll be able to say, "squeal like a pig" to Elmo in Spanish (sorry, Elmo, just kidding) :-)

Kim

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elmodefoque says on Aug 26, 2004, 10:53:

Kim, and why would you want me to squeal like a pig? heheheh

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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villdkatta says on Aug 26, 2004, 15:24:

Good question, Elmo ;-)

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Diana says on Aug 26, 2004, 19:42:

Just Wondering I live in the states and when I went to Colombia the social clases really confused me. For example, in the states its common for a household of two parents and a child to own:

2 cars, (about $20,000 each car)
3 bedroom house ($160,000)
vacation apartment ($100,000)

A family living in these conditions would be consider middle class, now I was wondering in Colombia if a family of three lived in these same conditions what class would they be considered. I am not talking about converting the amount, just consider approximately what you could get in the states for that amount and if compare to a person that had the same in Colombia?

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elmodefoque says on Aug 27, 2004, 05:30:

BINGO!!!! Here ladies and gentlemen is the classic Colombian (in this case colombian/american) we been talking about, this lovely lady (Diana)is, as you could clearly see, pretentious, pompous, showy, ostentatious, hallow and to top it off, from Miami, she could not be more perfect.
If that’s middle class for her I must be one poor sonamanbiche and all this time I was telling everybody, with great pride, that I was lower middle class. I just bought my only car, a used car for 10 grand and was shaking like a leaf, signing a whole bunch of papers, knowing that for the next ten years i'll be paying for this damn thing.
After reading her posting, I will say my farewell to all on this wonderful site, and I’m off to shoot my self. I’ve never felt so poor and depress. Chaooo

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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ColombianoX says on Aug 27, 2004, 05:42:

Elmos's right! elmo,

I also thought the same same thing you said when I read her post. I don't know how anyone could say that it is "common" for any household in the U.S. to own a $100,000 vacation apartment. No le haga caso a lo que dice esa 'snob'.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 08:41:

there's more to it Diana, you are oversimplifying it. Take away one of the cars, lower the price of the other one to the half, skip the "vacation apartment" (you've got to be kidding!)and add household help, like cleaning lady and laundress, a manicure/pedicure girl that comes to your home and and makes you pretty for a third of the price, add the cost of private schools, maybe even bilingual ones, to the equation, and strat comparing from there...and it's only the very beginning.
The quality of life cannot be measured in only material wealth.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 08:56:

Elmo HAHAHA!!! $10,000 car with 10 years of payments!! You cheapo! Thats like $90 a month!! You're still paying off the donkeys aren't you!! LOL!

I think I came from a middle class family, and my first car was $3000 bucks... No vacation apartment for me growing up... Dad and I would sit by a river and fish, then share a tent at night! Geez, I thought we had it good when my Dad rented a cottage for a week. Two cars?... yes in my case. $20,000 each? HELL NO! not unless my Mom's Chevette was filled up with gold. That Chevette would double in value when you filled the gas tank up.

I also don't think you can compare the class structure of the North America to South America... just too many factors to consider.

Dave

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elmodefoque says on Aug 27, 2004, 09:30:

Hey Dave, cut me some slack, you forgot to add the interest on that loan which will bring it to a whopping $102.93 total a month that I have to pay for that damn car, and we’re talking ten long, very long years. I‘ll be dead before I’m finish paying so will my car.
at least the donkey i got to eat (tastes like chicken) after it was paid off and old.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 27, 2004, 09:55:

Funny thing about American class structure The funny thing about US class structure is that almost everyone wants to believe they're middle class. I grew up with people whose parents owned airplanes, beach houses, ski houses, and drove cars like BMWs and Porsches (in High School, nonetheless) and the most they would have copped to was being "upper-middle-class". Everyone there wants to be rich but nobody wants to claim being upper class (except maybe in East Coast blue-blood circles).

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 11:01:

Hollywood,

I noticed that too in the US. Its the same way in Canada, except now the "poor" are called "low-income" so poor people don't get upset.... yet they still call themselves lower-middle class.

In the Bay Area, very wealthy people would claim to be "upper-middle class". They were the same ones who say they like diversity, but would pay $800,000 for a three bedroom house so they would not have to live near, or have their kids go to school with Blacks or Mexicans.

Dave

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elmodefoque says on Aug 27, 2004, 11:07:

Going over the past postings and I see that this lovely lady (Diana) is also of Cuban/American parent. If you’ve ever met a Miami Cuban, no need to say more. But if you have not, there are three lovely words that immediately come from other Latin people’s mouth when meeting a Cuban/American “cubichi habla mieyda” roughly meaning, bull shit artist. Combine the elitist Colombian mentality and the bull shit that comes from a Miami Cuban’s mouth and you best run quickly to K-Mart and buy yourself the highest boots they’ve got, because the pile of crap you will hear will be almost knee high. Every Cuban American, especially the ones in Miami, was a multi zillionaire in Cuba before Fidel kicked them out, according to them.
I don’t say this outta malice because my best friend, for almost 30 years, Rolando, is Cuban American, and I love that guy, but not the way Siegfried and Roy love each other, we love each other in a he man, manly way, fishing and talking about broads kind of way. Anyway, man, he could really pile it high and I don’t do so bad myself. Our other friends tend to scatter when they see us getting together. Damn, I hope my friends are not saying behind my back. Shit!! Here comes that Guajiro habla mierda. You guys think I habla too much mierda??

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 12:43:

since you asked, elmo why yes, since you asked, we do! But you're kind of entertaining, so we just might keep you around...:)
cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 27, 2004, 13:02:

Mierda del toro That's a rhetorical question, isn't it Elmo?

Your bullshit is just enough to make the plants grow but never reaches over the top of our rubber boots.

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ShazCas says on Aug 27, 2004, 14:48:

Interesting I've found it really interesting to see from reading this post that people from the US and Canada are anxious to refer to themselves as middle-class, and that the term "lower class" and "poor" exists. In the UK, we refer to the "working class" and your class has more to do with your education than money. Most working class people are proud to say they are, and it's a respectable thing in the UK, if you're a plumber or you work in a factory, you're not ashamed to say you're working class, in fact, it's something to be proud of.

The middle class are very critical of themselves and the working class are critical of them too. There is a stereotypical image of the middle class family in the suburbs who live a very small-minded and boring life, with their perfect little garden, 2.4 children and holidays in France. You could listen to a band such as Blur to hear about that, and many other bands, such as Pulp. There is a lot about the British middle class in our popular culture.

The working class have been traditionally seen as the backbone of society, the real people, who keep the country going. Of course these are all just cultural perceptions and beliefs I'm telling you about.

The class structure in the UK has gradually been breaking apart, especially now that we have a Labour government. Many more working class kids go to university, and we have such a multicultural society now that that has also broken down barriers, and it's very interesting, because we're becoming a very varied society where class doesn't matter.

I come from a working class family, and that was always something I was proud of, because I have had jobs since I was 13, I am resourceful, independent and mature. The middle class kids I studied with weren't allowed jobs because it was common to have a job and it would harm their studies (I got the best marks in the school so it didn't do me any harm) and I wasn't as protected and wrapped in cotton wool as my friends. Maybe I wouldn't have gone to Colombia if I hadn't been allowed the independence I was given, who knows?

The government at that time provided grants and university was free, so I was able to get a degree and go to Colombia as part of my studies. At university there were people from many different classes and places, and it was there that I really saw class barriers break down.

But I was thinking about it, and I would have to say that if I do belong to a "social class", it would now be middle class. Not because of money, but education. I read the Guardian, drink wine, like foreign food and have dinner parties!!

I know lots of working class people in the UK with lots of money, more money than middle class people. They are plumbers, builders, they own successful businesses.... They are working class because they never read, are very conservative, read the Sun, and go on package holidays to Spain. And they're proud of it. That's kind of the way it is in the UK.

My husband's middle class, but always had less money comparatively than me. His family are university educated and have a house full of books, sculptures and paintings. But sometimes he went hungry as a child because there was no money. It's funny, he's middle class Colombian and I'm from a very working class Irish backround, so I guess we're out there forming part of a new social fabric.

Anyway, must stop rambling...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 15:32:

shaz if you don't mind, I'd like to know what did his family think about him marrying a girl from Northern Ireland? Weren't they worried about that you were going to take him away from Colombia to live far away in some obscure European country? Have your in-laws visited you in Northern Ireland? What did they think about it?
I'm asking these questions because that was the main worry my mother-in-law had when we got married. She hated the idea of her son marrying a European girl, not because she had anything personally against me, but because she felt she was going to lose her son who would inevitably follow me to live far away from them. Well, we stayed in Cali for ten years before her worst fears came true, but it was only because he wanted to, I would have been happy living in Colombia for the rest of my life.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Aug 27, 2004, 17:22:

hollywood, there you go again using words i don't understand "rethorical" what the hell does that mean???

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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litost says on Aug 27, 2004, 18:42:

elmo, do you know the meaning of the word "dictionary"?

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 18:51:

ShazCas,

Yes, in Canada or the US, the class system seems to be based on money. The working class in the US and Canada, due to our conistently booming economy (relative to the rest of the world) are considered "middle class" due to their high level of incomes, and the general success since WWII.

We just import immigrants to fill the low-income (poor is a 4 letter word in Canada, and "lower-class" is paramount to a racial slur) group. This way, a person cleaning the toilet at the airport will always earn minimum wage. No member of my family will do it, but a mother of 5 from Somalia will.

I was lucky enough that my father, a union worker, saved for my education (the days of grants to go to university in Canada are long gone) but I never lost site of where I came from. Even though I was the first member in my family to get a degree from University, like the rest of my family, I cling to this idea that I am "middle-class".

In Canada, the middle class do not "hate" the rich as happens in some other countries. The growing trend here seems to be hating the people who receive welfare, as they have the same standard of living as the low-income people. A new term in Canada "the working poor" has come about.

Just the other day, I was shocked to find out the my government consideres cable TV as a "necessity" for those in socially assisted housing. I don't have cable now, because its too damn expensive.... because half my paycheque goes to taxes, to pay for someone elses cable TV....

Then, I hear some dumby say that immigrants come to Canada and go straight for the welfare line. The only thing I see immigrants doing are driving cabs, cleaning toilets, and running corner stores. Go by the welfare homes and you will see a whole host of fat white people...

Well, now would be a good time to stop typing! ... I like this discussion... not Colombian related, but perhaps Colombians (and everyone else) can benefit from hearing about how things work in other places. I sure do.

Dave

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 18:55:

A dictionary would be pretty freaking useless if you looked up "rethorical". Even I spotted that one.

Maybe look that word up in the dickshonary.

Dave

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villdkatta says on Aug 27, 2004, 19:48:

I don't know what exactly you're asking, Diana, but.....

I was always told that it's crass to throw around dollar amounts in general anyway. No matter where you go, some people are going to be richer than you, some people will be poorer. What does it matter how what you have here compares to people in Colombia? As Desi wisely said, "The quality of life cannot be measured in only material wealth." Amen, sister.

I'm going to pass on my vacation apartment and do something really, really good with the money I saved.

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villdkatta says on Aug 27, 2004, 20:00:

Elmo, since you asked.... you are very entertaining and I am learning some great Spanish here. Now, if I can only find a way to integrate "cubichi habla mieyda" into a conversation, I will be happy! LOL ;-)

Kim

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 28, 2004, 12:37:

Elmo ¿Sabes que es rhetórico? Eso es.

No se como se dice en guajiro.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2004, 16:23:

pero en guajiro? English Word Spanish Word
rhetorical retórico
Definitions: Rhetorical
Rhetorical

Adjective
1. Of or relating to rhetoric; "accepted two or three verbal and rhetorical changes I suggested"- W.A.White; "the rhetorical sin of the meaningless variation"- Lewis Mumford.

2. Concerned with effect or style of writing and speaking; "a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply".

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/rh/rhetorical.html

Basically, a rhetorical question is the kind you make without expecting an answer...

A la orden!
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Aug 29, 2004, 12:10:

kim, so you want to use "cubichi habla mieyda" in a conversation? try this. "next week i'm off to miami for a nice couple weeks vacation, my co workers tell me that i will find lots of palm trees, lots of beautiful beaches, lots of nice restaurants and lots of "cubichi habla mieyda"
going on two days and i still can't find, by myself(thanks desi) the meaning of "rethorical" .

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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ShazCas says on Aug 29, 2004, 14:22:

Mother-in-law No, Desi, of course I don't mind. My mother-in-law was not impressed by me at all when I started going out with my husband, mainly because I'm a foreign woman and so obviously a slut. She wouldn't even say hello to me for a month. But that was 8 years ago and now I think she likes me ok! If my husband complains about a fight we had she says he must listen to me as I'm right!! And yes, she was upset that I would take her son away from her, and I didn't give her 10 years like you, I only stayed for 4. But she's very proud of her son and is pleased he's living a fulfilling, interesting life. She's not a very lovey-dovey woman with her son, and I don't think she really misses him that much, to be honest, as she spends all her time looking after her two beautiful grandchildren.

I don't think she approves of my "modern ways", but she knows I'm a good influence on her son and that I've been good for him. She probably thinks I'm a bad wife too, though, as I don't cook or clean for my husband!

The rest of his family are all very interested in the UK, which I don't think is obscure at all. In fact, Colombians generally know more about Northern Ireland than English people. They're very interested in coming over to visit, and in fact we live in Scotland now and are planning to move to London, but they've not been able to come over as my husband's sister's spending all her money on a Masters Degree at the moment, and is mum's busy with the two new arrivals, my niece and nephew. They're planning on coming over next year, though.

I am a bit scared of my mother-in-law, she's pretty strict and old-fashioned and I have to call her Doña and "usted", and she can be very serious. And I hate it when she cooks things I don't like, like mondongo (but the dog loves me!!!) But it could be worse, I suppose!!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 29, 2004, 15:05:

Shazcas is my hero "My mother-in-law was not impressed by me at all when I started going out with my husband, mainly because I'm a foreign woman and so obviously a slut"

Is the best thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

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daver says on Aug 29, 2004, 20:30:

******No, Desi, of course I don't mind. My mother-in-law was not impressed by me at all when I started going out with my husband, mainly because I'm a foreign woman and so obviously a slut*****

Holey LMAO!!! My family (grandparents) absoluetly hate everyone I date, and/or have a serious relationship with!

If they are not white, protestant, and english, they must be whores!!

Yet, everytime I date a catholic (French Canadian, Parisian French, and now Colombian) my girlfriends Catholic Parents LOVE me?? To my family (grandparents only) catholics are sluts wanting my children! LOL!

What gives?

LOL... foriegn slut!! I agree with Mr. Hollywood... very funny!!

What a stange life this is...

Dave

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 30, 2004, 08:40:

mother-in-law "I'm a foreign woman and so obviously a slut" , that was very funny Shaz! I believe my mother-in-law thought just the same about me, especially because we moved together before getting married:) I should have let him to marry the girl next door, that his mom had intended for him, after all the family was affluent and she was the only child. Then I could have become his mistress; that would have been more acceptable for my mother-in-law, I'm sure.
The famous first words when he introduced me to the family: "Son, but she's a gringa. They are terrible!" He answered: "Mom, she's not a gringa, she's European". She responded with a little squeal throwing her arms up in the air: "The Europeans women are even worse!!!!!!" She didn't realize that even if I didn't speak any Spanish yet at that time, I understood almost everything that was spoken.
The relationship improved much afterwards, after a sizable wedding (Roman Catholic), which we paid ourselves plus two fair, light-skinned, blue-eyed children we produced in due time...

Cheers,
Desi
(a good mother and wife, but a strange, weird person who manages her own money plus doesn't bring a tinto and a glass of orange juice to her husband's bed every morning...ohhh and has introduced strange, outlandish customs in her son's life, like sharing housework and making decisions together.)

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Aug 30, 2004, 09:17:

Hey ladies, I don’t’ understand those Colombian mother in-laws; they should be happy that a beautiful Anglo woman is even looking at that damn Indian son of hers. Hey I don’t mind insulting myself too.
and what the hell is wrong with "sluts" i love them!!

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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lala96 says on Dec 27, 2004, 09:26:

why do you have to say these things Elmo just because you have issues with women doesn't mean that you have to write about making women squeal like pigs. Talk like this shouldn't be on this forum we are discussing classism not taking advantage of women. Drugging a woman and making her squeal is called rape!

lala96

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elmodefoque says on Dec 27, 2004, 09:44:

You’re reading me all wrong. Man, I love and respect broads. By having someone “squealing like a pig” is meant to be a good thing, is like screaming from pure pleasure, have you ever done that?
The fact that most Colombian broads do not like my very tanned ass, is no longer a big deal, I don’t like their flat Indian ass either. I prefer Anglo or white looking Colombian women like my wife, Sofia Vergara and Puerto Rican J-lo.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 27, 2004, 10:49:

Elmo, it doesn't sound like she's ever been on all fours squealing like a pig. Pobrecita!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 27, 2004, 10:53:

Utopia my man, let's hope is a she. If is a she the I volunteer to make her squeal like a pig, unless you want to do the honors.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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toneloc24 says on Dec 27, 2004, 11:03:

In defense of Elmo..... why aren't you offended by him humping donkeys too???? Lighten up, chicky. Why so serious? Read back to most of his posts.

Back on topic, I'm still boycotting and spreading the word on the racist practices of Frogg Leggs in Barranquilla.

Race is a strange thing in Colombia. The strata system is definitely real. In my limited access, I've seen such strange practices, that I've had to reconsider some of the relationships I've had due to blatant ignorance. I'm pretty tolerant, but it's was too obvious in many cases. And I'm sure I got the benefit of the doubt because I was foreign.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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