Colombia's president criticizes Obama

MitchAlvarez says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:07:

:(

Im gonna have to rethink my vote now....... Mcain seems a lot more interesting lol

Whats his stand on this MT? MT your the one who keeps me updated on this Election year. Whats Mcain stand on the tlc?

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

msaucey says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:10:

Oooh... My mom is going to be pissed.... I'm with you Mitch.... McCain is all of a sudden starting to sound appealing...

Great! Damn, we're screwed, one way or another...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

peteyw says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:11:

McCain is a better choice for Colombia in the near term; but if given a two-term precidency, I believe Obama is a better choice for Colombia (and Latin America in general) in the long run.

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:13:

I say, everyone should relax.

It's all too political at the moment, things will probably change after someone is officially elected to the White House.

Also, Uribe should probably be worried about the bigger issues affecting Colombia at the moment, instead of worrying about someone who is not, nor may get a chance to get elected to the White House.

I think a lot of issues blocking the agreement have to do with human rights violations against Colombians, by Colombians.

That there is the real issue Uribe should be concerned about. NO?

McCain's too old to remember where he stands, sits, or sleeps.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:14:

With all of Baraks experience running big govt. I can't believe you'd re-think your vote. He's by far the "quality" contestant here......jajajajajaaaaa....

We'll soon be the laughing stock of the world as he'll probably get elected.....what a clown..

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:17:

peteyw says, "McCain is a better choice for Colombia in the near term; but if given a two-term precidency, I believe Obama is a better choice for Colombia (and Latin America in general) in the long run."

Completey agree.

Too many people are quick to decide over one or two issues when voting. But, you have to look at who is the better choice in the long run.

Obama is the better choice of the three choices we have at the moment; good, bad, or otherwise.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

DodgerDogs says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:18:

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:19:

Holy Moly MT......I agree that there is no good choice of the three..... we all tossed it away with Ron Paul...... but Barak???? I agree...he'll most probably be the next president. But Barak!!......

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:20:

Frank Rizzo says, "With all of Baraks experience running big govt. I can't believe you'd re-think your vote. He's by far the "quality" contestant here......jajajajajaaaaa....

We'll soon be the laughing stock of the world as he'll probably get elected.....what a clown.."

We have a clown in office now, so what's the real issue here?

'Cause he's young, black, and gives American white males nightmares?

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:22:

Well MT...i'm sure he'll get all the latino vote ...no??

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:23:

Not really. It's too early to tell. The Latinos are loyal to Bill, so Hillary gets their vote.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

durito says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:24:

The protectionist sentiment in the USA is pretty troubling today and the democrats aren't helping anything by playing into that sentiment, even though I really doubt they really feel that way.

"America has seen a bigger decline in support for free trade over the past five years than any of 35 countries studied by Pew; indeed, Americans now lead the world in hostility to free trade. The proportion of Americans who think that trade benefits their country has fallen from 78% in 2002 to 59% today."

http://www.economist.com/specialreports/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1087...


That cartoon above is pretty despicable. It reminds me why I'm glad I don't live there anymore.


Which previous US president has experience running a big govt'? That's right, none of them. It's not a position you can have the experience for.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:28:

I hear ya MT....i knew that...many dont like BHO....

Tomacoma says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:29:

right now, i'm more concerned about what is best for the US. and
I gotta go with MT on this one...Obama would be better in the long run...for both colombia and the US.

I'am livin' easy, eatin' poke chops greasy! "Reality is overated."

durito says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:31:

"We'll soon be the laughing stock of the world as he'll probably get elected.....what a clown.."

This is probably the most out of touch statement I've ever read in my entire life.


I can't wait till Obama is president.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:34:

Well...durito.... you won't have to wait long....he will be...without a doubt...

And i'm checking out for early retirement....so it really doesn't make that much difference to me.....

And if you mean that George is a bigger laughing stock...you're right....that guy has really messed up our country.....

miamimike says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:35:

Not really. It's too early to tell. The Latinos are loyal to Bill, so Hillary gets their vote.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No surprise there! Colombians I have talked to here in Miami are especially loyal to Bill Clinton and why wouldn't they be?? He did start Plan Colombia afterall and look at the Positive results,,,,the FTA will get passed in good time when the Deaths of these Trade Unionists are investigated somewhat more vigorously then what has been done to date.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

RAAAY says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:35:

Medellin Traveler says on Wednesday April 2nd, 2008 1

'" Cause he's young, black, and gives American white males nightmares? "

MT ....you are obviously unaware that Obama is strong among white males after African American voters so far. If it were'nt for white males he'd be gone long ago.

Pittsburg Post Gazette
.....'Mr. Obama beat Mrs. Clinton among white men, often among huge margins, in the primaries in Wisconsin, Virginia, California and Maryland,"


Washington Post.

..." In 27 states where exit polls were conducted, starting with Iowa on Jan. 3 and ending with Mississippi last week, Clinton won the white male vote 11 times and Obama 10 times. In five states, they basically split the votes of white men. Former senator John Edwards (N.C.) carried white men in South Carolina.

Obama has generally won decisively among white men with college degrees. "


He's hardly giving American white males nightmares.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

juancegomez says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:37:

To be honest, I haven't paid as much attention as I could to the whole U.S. political campaign, so most of my impressions about Obama are relatively superficial, based on the fact he's not Bush, that his candidacy represents minorities and that he's against the War in Iraq. And stuff like that.

Terribly superficial, I repeat.Hardly enough for me to judge him or his actual policies, so luckily I don't have to do so, unlike many of his fellow U.S. Americans.

That being said, Obama may not be the best president for Uribe in the short term (especially if he's going to confront Obama like his), but if the guy actually makes some positive changes that match his image and rhetorics (say, what does he think about the war on drugs or prohibition?), I'd hope that things could improve in the long run. Since I'm against the current FTA, for reasons that Obama or the Democrats don't really talk much about in fact (not that they even need to), his rejection of the deal doesn't bother me.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:37:

I hear ya Raay....it's just that any liberal gives me nightmares...

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:44:

RAAAY,

I was trying to stay in tune with the Governor of Pittsburgs comments....

Gov. Ed Rendell, a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter, told the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that he believed Pennsylvania voters would not support Barack Obama simply because of his race.

"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate,"

That, and the fact that I work on the south side of Chicago, and am so lucky to hear all the racist remarks about Obama made each day by my hard-working gringo co-workers... they are afraid, very afraid of Obama in the White House, mainly because they are close-minded racists, nothing more.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

durito says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:56:

Obama does very well with well educated and well off white men. He does terrible with other white men, especially in the south. This isn't terribly concerning since those southerners have been duped into voting republican anyway.

He will be the nominee (she can't pass him in earned delegates, and the super delegates will yield to Pelosi, Gore,etc's opinion that overturning the vote of the people would be disastrous for the party -- which it would be), so these primaries are pretty irrelevant. Hilary's goal seems to be to knock him down enough that McCain wins in November so she can have another shot in 4 years.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 20:01:

I don't think McCain can win.....the republicans have messed things too much.... obama may do well with well educated white men...but not any well off white men i know like him....or hillary.... and mccain...is not much of an option either....

Tomacoma says on Apr 2, 2008, 20:22:

right now, i'm more concerned about what is best for the US. and
I gotta go with MT on this one...Obama would be better in the long run...for both colombia and the US.

I'am livin' easy, eatin' poke chops greasy! "Reality is overated."

eywed says on Apr 2, 2008, 20:46:

RAAAY is it me or do you find great joy in pointing out Medellin Traveler wrong?

Ay Hombe!!!!!

bogotabrian says on Apr 2, 2008, 21:20:

Obama and Hilary are just sucking up to the corrupt unions for Penn. I wanted to vote for a Democrat this year badly too. I just don't like or trust either of them. McCain is against the HMOs, drug companies, for stem-cell research which is good. I just don't like his position on abortion but I don't think it's a big issue for him. Iraq might kill his chances though, after Bush screwed things up so horribly.

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 21:48:

just in case you missed it:

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 21:51:

Frank Rizzo... if MSaucey and MitchAlvarez are 'rethinking' their vote, leaning perhaps towards McVain... anything can happen. And, for the others... Obama wouldn't last a second term... jus mho.

and, thank you.

droble77 says on Apr 2, 2008, 21:55:

I'm not TOO worried about the '08 elections.

I think any of the 3 candidates would make a fine president, certainly at least a few steps up from Dumbya (although that's probably not saying much). I tend to vote Democratic, am mildly liberal, so naturally I would prefer Clinton or Obama (honestly don't have a preference between the two). But I do see admirable qualities in McCain, at least when he's not pandering to the far right or groveling towards Shrubya.

I think McCain has a very good chance to win. Reality has a habit of crushing people's audaciousness to hope so I'm NOT going to put a lot of emotional investment in Obama, lol.

In any case, with regards to the FTA, I think Uribe should be more focused on the chances that the Democrats will gain seats in the Congress later this year. That will have more influence on the fate of the FTA than who's the next pres. . .

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 21:55:

Listen... Hillary? Now, that would give me a good reason to leave the country.
Obama.... 'mmmmm.... I think OPRAH IS A GOOD SOCIAL INFLUENCE.. .... but......
McCain... ??? After the way GwB has completely fucked up the world..... I think it appeared to most that a republican could ABSOLUTELY NOT WIN THIS TIME AROUND.

But... In Honor of Scotty.... I AM BEGINNING TO THINK... that perhaps the ultimate vote will decide that ... in fact, ... McCAIN is........THE LEAST EVIL.

Damn. When you can get Saucey voting for a white male republican... WE ARE IN A MESS...LOL!!!

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:05:

yep... see what I jus said, now MARK ANTHONY... has the line...

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:06:

besides... a popular foto of incrimination has now found it's way to the press:

and, thank you.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:07:

Agreed Mark....and GS....when we gave up Ron Paul...i knew it was like being on a waterslide....all the way down....we really F'd up..

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:08:

and, thank you.

MitchAlvarez says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:17:

oh god........yuckkkkkkkk


but honestly im torn with this whole tlc and colombia deal. i was leaning towards obama but man....... uribe needs this tlc approved so he can keep doing all the great stuff he's doing.

ill just wait and see.......

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

DodgerDogs says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:17:

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

DodgerDogs says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:19:

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

goin_south says on Apr 2, 2008, 22:32:

U... R... absolutely... fgcrazy.

and, thank you.

christobeldawg says on Apr 2, 2008, 23:14:

mccain is insane
but still the only possible choice
I hope enough people realize this in November

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

Buongone says on Apr 3, 2008, 00:40:

Speaking Trade Unions. Anyone ever hear of James Hoffa.

RAAAY says on Apr 3, 2008, 00:48:

eywed says on Wednesday April 2nd, 2008 20:46:

.. " RAAAY is it me or do you find great joy in pointing out Medellin Traveler wrong? "

.........No eywed...........I am an equal opportunity corrector.........each time, before I log onto PBH , I don a pink spandax uniform, with a green cape that has the words CORRECTION MAN emblazoned on the back.................

It does appear that MT is a repeat offender..........but that is not my fault......the open mouth catches the fly............

This post is a prime example.............just because the Govener of PA, says something is so in PA ,does'nt make it a prima facie case, for actual true facts across the board. Neither is " I heard it at the water cooler " or " I was told by friends " suffice to base true facts on, and continue to spread the mis-information further afield.

If I were to announce that Peroni is the best beer in the world...........because a bartender told me so............does that make it factual ??

When I slip into my uniform.......I am on constant guard against gullable statements..........it's a thankless task.........apart from the PBH $100,000 correction Police salary.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

RAAAY says on Apr 3, 2008, 00:50:

And now...........back to sleep............the alarm in this f**kin hotel has finally ceased blaring..

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

poco says on Apr 3, 2008, 03:46:

Quote: I am on constant guard against gullable statements..........it's a thankless task.........

So little time, so much to do.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

peteyw says on Apr 3, 2008, 08:02:

McCain is cannon fodder and he knows it.

The Decision-making Republicans have realized for a couple years now that they are not winning the White House this election or either house of Congress; and stand to lose several key Governorships. The current adminstration's policies have assured them these loses. And they are O.K. with that as they have gotten much richer during W's term.

They figure all things political are cyclical, like recessions, and they'll just bide their time over the next 4 to 8 years while counting their money and waiting for their next shot. In the interim as the minority party in Congress, they plan to make the new administration's life as difficult as possible.

They know the only way that McCain could possibly win is if the Democratic nominee (Obama) made a serious and inexcusable faux pas; or gets caught in a yet to be uncovered major, major scandal (which is also Hillary's only hope to win the nomination). McCain is playing the good soldier and they'll reward him for it now and in the future.

The nomination and the presidency is Obama's to lose. He will not make a major inexcusable faux pas; he's much too smart and well-trained in Chicago politics for that (you see how deftly he's working around the Rev. Wright embarassment..that speech Obama gave in regards to his relationship was an absolutely brilliant, Lincolnesque piece of work). If there was scandal in his past that could undo him, it would have come out already.

I think for those of you who have not lived in Chicago, you don't really have the understanding of the nature of Chicago politics to know just how battle-ready Obama is. Chicago politics is as low-down, dirty and gangsterish as they come; most of the political games played in the rest of the country are child's play in comparison. Hillary is a Chicago-area product too. These people fight for fun.

Obama is 'the man' for the next four years, love him or hate him. I think he'll do America proud. Its not too hard to look good when your predecessor is 'W'.

Albatross says on Apr 3, 2008, 08:37:

Your right, obviously, those currently in power don't give a rat's ass about anything but $$$.

I find it hillariously disturbing that about the only thing their "war on terror" has managed to accomplish is to drive up the price of oil (Pop Quiz: which countries benefit most from high oil prices ?).

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

peteyw says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:13:

Which countries benefit most from the high oil prices? You know...

The United States of Exxon Mobil
The Royal Dutch Shell Kingdom
The Peoples Republic of Chevron
The United Kingdom of BP
His Majesty's Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and The Princely States
The Democratic Republic of ConocoPhillips
The Peaceful Religious Republic of Iran

aztec says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:19:

Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. could be polka dot red, white, and blue and I wouldn't vote for him. He is an extreme far left wing liberal out of touch with main stream America. He does have support of many who live in blue States but that is to be expected. Those people never talk to anyone living in fly over land.

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:25:

Uribe needs to take a deep breath before saying things like that.

Obama is just pandering for labor votes in Ohio. It's certainly a more important voting bloc than the "Amigos De Colombia" segment.

The fact is that if the FTA hasn't been passed by now, it's probably dead in the water anyway, no matter who is president.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:41:

I'd say he's pandering to public sector union members and members of manufacturing unions tied to the floundering auto industry. It's in their best interest for employees of Deere, Caterpillar, ADM, ITW, Sara Lee, Motorola, Tellabs, Corn Products International, etc. to support a trade agreement that reduces Colombia's unilateral import tariffs.

ILLINOIS IS HOME TO 33 OF THE FORTUNE 500
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2007/states/IL.html

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:44:

Tinto, is there actually a pro-FTA wing in the labor movement? An organized one?

Tinto (Moderator) says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:53:

Not that I'm aware of, but there are definitely unionized exporters that could benefit from the agreement.

The U.S. flower industry is a natural opponent, that I can understand. But for U.S. unions represented at places like Cat, Deere, big pharma, Boeing, etc -- the opposition doesn't make any sense to me.

bogotabrian says on Apr 3, 2008, 11:08:

I know. This current administration is about the greediest that maybe we have ever seen. Sad thing is that the evangelicals from the South (around my home state) would vote for him again because he is against abortion, stem cell research and hard on the "terrorists".

sloopskipper says on Apr 3, 2008, 11:50:

And Brian, don't forget the biggie, GUN CONTROL.

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 11:59:

That's what I thought, Tinto. Sadly, the labor movement long ago missed the boat of supporting things that are actually good for their underlying industries. It seems to be all about preserving the status quo, today.

poco says on Apr 3, 2008, 12:17:

Quote: The U.S. flower industry is a natural opponent, that I can understand. But for U.S. unions represented at places like Cat, Deere, big pharma, Boeing, etc -- the opposition doesn't make any sense to me.
------------------------
I’m a curious guy and wanted to observe Colombians selling livestock at auction. I traveled to a remote ranching town high in the mountains. The town was well known for having a monthly live stock auction on Saturday and Sunday. Quite a sight to see men on horses driving cattle into town, pigs packed into moto pulled trailers and livestock sold from the rear of stake bed trucks.

The town hosted street vendors coming from parts of Valle Cauca with a huge variety of goods for sale. Amazing to see several blocks of temporary guadua structures roofed with black plastic tarps covering tables loaded with sale items. Some parts of the narrow streets were so densely packed that the plastic spanned the street between the booths resulting in a shaded and crowed filled walkway down the center of the street..

Items were spread on tables, hung from the roof supports, attached to walls and displayed on cloth spread in the street. One vendor had a small box of items he could whip out if asked. That was my first view of exquisitely hand carved wooden dildos. Interesting, I’m sure there would be a market in the U.S., especially those with masochistic tendencies.

The recent AFL-CIO visit to Colombia probably opened their eyes to the possibility of once again inflicting a self induced and potentially more painful screwing of Union Members.

Does this now make sense?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 12:22:

Clearly the hand-carved dildo unions in the US have every reason to live in fear.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 3, 2008, 12:52:

Aztec....I couldn't agree more!!!

Nice to know we are not moveon.pbh completely....

Bluesdude says on Apr 3, 2008, 13:07:

Is there really violence against trade unions by the Colombian authorities? Are the trade unions fronts for FARC? Do they incite riots and violence first? Obama should answer these questions first. I believe he will say anything to get elected. I expect Obama's so far left, he will probably support the FARC. Maybe he can room with Chavez? Cozeeeee!

Bluesdude No Mas Gringas Por La Vida

aztec says on Apr 3, 2008, 13:44:

moveon.pbh

Thanks Frank. Had not heard that one.

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 3, 2008, 14:15:

Peteyw says, "I think for those of you who have not lived in Chicago, you don't really have the understanding of the nature of Chicago politics to know just how battle-ready Obama is. Chicago politics is as low-down, dirty and gangsterish as they come; most of the political games played in the rest of the country are child's play in comparison. Hillary is a Chicago-area product too. These people fight for fun."

Haha... I'm the drive home from work listening to talk radio they pretty much echoed your statement. That's the Che-ka-go way...........

aztec says, "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."

Oooooowww........ are we supposed to be scared because you exposed the Hussein in his name? How silly.........

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 3, 2008, 14:28:

Not scared of his middle name MT.... BHO is scary enough by himself, he's clearly a facist.

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 3, 2008, 15:03:

Only time will tell. It will definitely be interesting times. But, we will have to just wait and see.... and, we'll always have Colombia!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

milanojps says on Apr 3, 2008, 18:10:

I think Obama, Gore and the others who have come out against the trade agreement solely on the point of the trade unions are not seeing the bigger picture here...

Colombia has come a long way in just the past 10 years alone and everyday things are getting better. Are there still problems with the trade unions..of course! Will there be problems for the forseable future...yup...especially if we cut off aid. I have friends in the Uribe government who tell this aid really helps and I've seen the good work being done myself. Instead of turning our backs on Colombia...we should do our best to support them as they continue on their journey to getting where they need to be.

Just because we are the United States and have never had problems with trade unions in our history especially regarding corruption and death (hmmmm...Jimmy Hoffa anyone?) who are we to say that a small and poor country like Colombia should now all of a sudden match our quality and standards regarding trade union protections (Har Har)? We cannot compare apples to apples yet people!

I have a friend and I want to help him improve himself in some way...last thing I do is cut him off at the knees....I think Gore should stick to inventing the internet and worry about the polar ice caps and Obama should take bowling lessons...and come back when they both have something intelligent to say about this part of the world.