Colombians!!!!

morphus says on Nov 29, 2005, 15:30:

i'm not Colombian but i know a lot in the U.S. according to them, the U.S. has "opened" their minds.

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MaG says on Nov 29, 2005, 15:32:

almost the same! well, my life has not changed that much! i mean i'm still a positive and nice person.
the only things that have changed is that now i have to work, and study both at the same time. In Colombia i was a full time student, no work at all.
I have to speak a different lenguage, and deal with people that are way too different from the people i'm use to deal with, i miss the nice people u can find all over the places in my country! i'm not saying that people here is mean or not nice , cuz yes, they are nice , but i dunno people in Colombia is like warmer!! :)
and well definitly my eating habits have changed a lot!! that's it!! i guess!!
*MaG*

*MaG*

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chad says on Nov 29, 2005, 15:42:

? If you don't mind me asking. How have your eating habits changed.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 18:13:

Life Well I lived in the USA for a total of 5 years. I enjoyed 2 and hated 3. Found a country that was totally the opposite of what I expected, unfortunatelly for the bad, ended at the end disliking most of what could be seen and done. Finally ended travelling around the country extensively, saw nothing that interested me, moved to England, loved it but finally decided I could have a much more enjoyable life in Colombia and so came back and live here happily.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 30, 2005, 05:04:

Hell, my life in the USA is a lot better, let me take that back, life in NYC is a lot better; there are places in USA I would not wanna go near. MY life changed drastically, as soon as I got here I now had shoes, I was eating every day and not once a week, I got here on a Friday and the following Monday I was in elementary school PS 192 Manhattan. I could not believe they actually gave me cookies and milk around 10 am and then for lunch, wow, I loved it, not because it was delicious but because it was free. But the most memorable most exciting thing about getting to NYC was that I was no longer un INDIO sucio like I was called in Colombia, now I was an EXOTIC beautiful kid.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

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maraca says on Nov 30, 2005, 05:40:

I think... I might have missundertood what you really wanted to say Morphus. But any way, if i got it right, its not moving to the states what broaden the mind is the actual fact of living abroad with an open mind and a humble heart wherever it is that you are going.

You know there are these miamians comingback thinking they are really cool jajaja And there are some others that have had really hard times but they lie about how wonderful it is there.

Well, a bit off this topic and relating the subject to other posts that have been done in the past. The naiveness of us colombians thinking that the grass is greener abroad is only a result of the lack of opportunities for traveling and see how it really is. Shame on us for not having enough money for traveling.

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maraca says on Nov 30, 2005, 05:42:

hehehheheeh EXOTIC IN NY?????
jajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajajja
jajajajajajajajajjajjajajajajaja
jajajajajajaja
jajajajajjajaja

EXOTIC IN ICELAND MAYBE!!!

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elmodefoque says on Nov 30, 2005, 06:07:

my brother is much lighter than me, we call him cachaco. In colombia he was all that, had lots of colombianita grilfriends while i had to do burritas, but then when we got here to NYC he was just a run of the mill little spic, a nothing, but they thought i was hawaiian, nobody spoke spanish to me. I was nailing the hot little gringitas many times better than what he had in colombia, now he wanted me to hook him up, but i told him, hey we're not in colombia anymore here you're just a spic, i'm exotic.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

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MaG says on Nov 30, 2005, 07:26:

well, my eating habits have changed cuz i don't feel as hungry as i use to feel in Colombia every time i thought about lunch!! when i used to imagine a nice "Bandeja costena", o sopa de lo ke fuera!, o " bandeja paisa" , now i have to be happy and satisfy my apettite with a freaking frozen meal!!when i wanted something "light' i could find a nice empanada o arepa, here i have to try "Mcdonalds", and be "happy" with something that taste like paper food!! so basically, i eat twice a day, breakfast and dinner!! that's it!! so since i'm here i can no longer say " barriga llena, corazon contento" cuz even if my tummy is full my heart is not happy!!!
and answering ur question GringoDe.... i live in Northern Jersey, Bergen county! is like 15 minutes away from Manhattan , i spent almost all my time in NYC.
what motivated me to live was, the future i think i deserve!!! yeah i came to the states to study!!i'm planning to go back to Colombia, and hoping this classes i've been taking here help me to find a nice and good job in the land of my dreams!!!
*MaG*

*MaG*

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Rubiazo says on Nov 30, 2005, 08:44:

Repatriation - the new trend? It's interesting to see examples of Colombians how have repatriated already (a la Webmanco, Juanalejo and some others I know) and those who are planning it (Colombiche, Litost, MaG). This is a trend I don't think you saw as much in the 70s and 80s as you do today. People used to come here with the idea of putting down permanent roots.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 30, 2005, 11:58:

Data from the USCIS regarding immigration from Colombia to the US:

Immigrants:
2001 2002 2003 2004
16,333 18,488 14,455 17,887

Refugees:
2001 2002 2003 2004
0 8 149 577

Deportations:
2001 2002 2003 2004
2,202 2,218 2,149 2,197

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 30, 2005, 16:11:

They were judicially deported. In 2004 there were also 919 Colombians who were stopped at the border and sent back to Colombia. For US immigration statistics see http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/publications/index.htm#factsheet

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Nov 30, 2005, 19:07:

Gringo de Lousiana What I enjoyed was real college life, it was nice seeing college football, I even joined a Fraternity for 1 year, interesting opportunity, loved having a car I could not afford here at the time, liked the seasons, and the snow. After that those things wore out, could care less if the car I had was new or not as long as I liked it, but found really difficult living in a place you seem you can not have a conversation about the world, it seems not only nobody knows anything about it, but they simply do not care and that I found disgusting. I disliked not being able to call a friend to go out, everybody is too busy and you have to program to see a friend with lots of time in advance. I disliked not seeing people at night in the streets, only cars and cars and more cars. I disliked the lack of urban life, that suburban homes are all alike, that a cities seem not to have their own character, they seem all the same, I disliked travelling for hours and seeing basically the same scenery, and if the scenery changed some, the same restaurants, hotels, malls and stores are found everywhere. Travelling lost its appeal. I hated winters after a while, the snow becoming mud. I disliked people smiling to you and then frowning when they turn away (this specially true in restaurants where waiters seem overfriendly when they talk to you but it seems so fake). But my worst dislike was the condescending way Americans look at the rest of the world. I am somebody that loves travelling and loves all places around the world, and the permanent bitching of everything foreign drove me up the wall. And the drop that filled my cup was having more than one person tell me I should not give my opinion on the US government or US policies. I was told more than once that if did not like what I saw I should leave the country. So I did, as my freedom will never be compromised. I found the US a country where the citizens police on behalf of the government, and I did not like that.

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 30, 2005, 20:16:

Colombians in the usa I have soooo much to say: I live in California longer than Colombia, and I NEVER feel like home. This is a beautiful country, and I travel everywhere, the people are very nice, very honest, however it is not Colombia. I stayed for so long, because I have a son, I did`nt want to leave him without his dad or that I go back, then he will have no mother. It is very hard to make friends here, you meet someone and they are very nice, polite but, very rare they REALLY stay friends. Life is hard here, everyone is in a hurry, you can`t drop by at your "friends" you have to call ahead of time, in Colombia you show up anytime, and there is a party in few minutes, WE ARE A POOR COUNTRY, BUT WE ARE ALWAYS HAPPY, THERE IS ALWAYS TIME FOR RUMBA!

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 30, 2005, 21:27:

All I can say is, it doesn't sound like you guys have lived in South Texas. Maybe the Latino majority here changes the dynamics of the culture. Everybody knows everybody else's business and nobody thinks twice about dropping in on everyone else. It's my wife who wishes that people would respect the boundaries more which is interesting coming from a Colombiana.

I'd have to agree that so many of the cities are like cardboard cutouts - if you've seen one you've seen them all. The unique cities, New Orleans, San Antonio, San Francisco, New York could never be mistaken for anywhere else.

You're definitely right about the attitude of many Americans. The rest of the world simply does not exist and I imagine that's hard for a foreigner to take. If you think that the citizens here police on the part of the government, you ought to try Canada.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Tyrell says on Dec 1, 2005, 01:06:

Oz aint the cause juanalejo:

Seems like you were just an all-around miserable person, eh?. Not enough people smiled at you; asked you to a dance; offered to buy you shots; complimented you on your many talents; etc. How blind we must have been to your obvious appeal.

In any case, thanks for bidding us adieu. Downers can depress a populace.

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litost says on Dec 1, 2005, 01:32:

No need to get on the defensive Tyrell, juanalejo is simply responding to the original question and giving his opinion based on his experience. Sorry you don't like it, but I have to tell you that as a colombian who spent many years in the US as well, he is not exaggerating or representing an isolated experience. It doesn't mean there aren't nice people and places in your country, of course there are, but if you're looking for a place that's full of people who are natural and warm, and where they're curious and interested in the rest of the world, most of the US is not a very compatible place. For many colombians just being able to make 5 or 10 times what they would make working in Colombia and driving a new car is enough reason to stay there, but we are not all like that.

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juanalejo says on Dec 1, 2005, 03:46:

Tyrell All countries in the world have good and bad, fun and boring. But for me the not so nice in the USA would be less than the nice and therefore I left. Never said I did not enjoy, I simply disliked some of the things. And as I also said, what I really did not like is condescending attitude and the uncapability of understanding that the world is all a wonderful place, and that many places for many people are much better than the USA. So just look at your answer, and that exact attitude typical of a large portion of the population, that drove me out of there.

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Rubiazo says on Dec 1, 2005, 04:13:

so in other words OH MY GOD everything I hate about Canada and the US is the SAME THING Colombians here hate too!! It's very typical that SOMEONE has to jump on the bandwagon and criticize Juanalejo for honestly expressing his opinion.

Hey if you are in Canada or the US and it's working out for you, more power to ya! If you don't notice the difference between the food up here and the food down there, that's your thing!

That reminds me of that arrogant post about "AY LA CARNE NO SABE A NADA" . The American just had to ASSUME that those Latinos he heard bitching were full of shit, but some of us gringos end up getting with their program and seeing things there way.

I can honestly say I felt more at home in Colombia and Brazil than I EVER have felt anywhere in Canada or the US.

UC, do they have any data on voluntary repatriation? I wouldn't be surprised if the 2004 or 2005 numbers wind up being close to the immigration numbers!! Of course, those numbers say nothing about people leaving who had no legal business being here in the first place, OR people who entered on a tourist visa and overstayed etc.

I can tell you straight up, in NYC once you have made it here legally or otherwise your chances of being deported are pretty slim. Finding work is a lot harder than it ever was without proper documents though.
In California and Arizona and some other border states, the police routinely stop people who fit profiles and check their ID and call Immigration if something looks even the least bit funny. This is of course totally unconstitutional, but the people who complain about it have NO civil rights one Immigration gets their paws on them so it doesn't matter much at that point!!!

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elmodefoque says on Dec 1, 2005, 05:18:

Among many things I liked about coming to the USA was BROADS, BROADS, BROADS!! keep in mind, I’m talking back in the stone age, sixties, NYC sex, drugs, rock and roll. The grils were stunning, eyes of blue like the waters in Lake Wachapango, La Guajira, yellow hair like the gold the Spaniards plunder. These grils were like nothing I’ve seen before and they wanted me, could not get enough of me, and did not matter if they had to share me with another. Threesome :) . I could bore you to tears if you had to sit and listen to me telling you why and how my life changed so drastically.
Then modefoque, why do you go back to Colombia, if you can’t stand those people? Correction, I can’t stand most (Not all) middle/rich Colombians, but I have a great time with the dirt poor. Put my ass in la calle Murrillo and el barrio Santuario, La Victoria and you will never see a happier modefoque. I invite you to my colombia next time I'm there. Now, Soledad , Malambo, and La Chinita is a different story, that's a little too extreme, they are so damn poor that they call people from Santuario, rich modefoques! and Santuario is estrato 1, so they gotta be estrato -5.
Modefoque, now that you walk around with American Express Platinum, why do you still relate to these people. They suffered with me and continue to suffer and struggle but with all that no one can RUMBIA like they can, to me that’s the real Colombia, la Colombia rumbera, la Colombia pobre la Colombia that’s 60% of the population.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

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elmodefoque says on Dec 1, 2005, 05:25:

hey dumb modefoque, one last question. Is life all about RUMBIAR to you? damn right, I'm already one old modefoque and my destiny is to die just like my granfather, holding a bottle of cheap ron in a bar in el barrio abajo, barranquilla.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

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caslug says on Dec 1, 2005, 06:08:

One thing i find a bit sad about COL.. is the difficulty of having a female friend(just friends) that is equal. In other words, we can go out once a month and chat and they´ll buy me dinner, because last month i bought dinner. The economic disparity between gringo wages and COL wages, kinda of pressures you into paying all the time. Also, the culture here is alittle bit machista, so the women are not as indepenant. Sure they´re are a small minority that are economicall/emotionally independant, but they are very few and it´s definitly hard to meet them. In the US, since there are more economic opportunity, most people make the same as you so the economic disparity is a lot less.

And also the classism takes a bit getting use to. As gringo we can move between classes without problem, but COL rarely do. Especially professional, educated types, they rarely will slum with you to places. I find it frustating sometimes that i can´t take girl from poblado to el centro or some divey place to eat and hang out. I don´t feel like going to COL upscale restaurants all the time, if i want to hangout with educated and professional types. In the states, women have no problem with slumming with you. Of course i´m not talking about doing it all the time. But many times, good food is found at divey places.

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IMorcombe says on Dec 1, 2005, 06:27:

A question for Colombians who live in the USA I have been in the USA for 25 years, how my life has changed? whatever happens in the USA I feel much safer here than I ever did in Bogota. I can wear gold necklaces and nice earrings and nobody scratches my neck or tears my ears to steal them. Still, we are planning to go back to Colombia in June for good; can't afford medical care here... :-{ unless I work for the rest of my days, which I am not planning to do.
Ines

Maria Ines

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paisa29 says on Dec 1, 2005, 07:33:

caslug "is the difficulty of having a female friend(just friends)"

you are right,another reason is women in Colombia have some kind of pressure of family and society for getting married before 30.

For me it is has been hard to find just friends (male) here also.

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paisa29 says on Dec 1, 2005, 07:43:

I don`t have that problem anymore because actually I`m 31, hahaha

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elmodefoque says on Dec 1, 2005, 07:52:

"I find it frustating sometimes that i can´t take girl from poblado to el centro or some divey place to eat and hang out." calug

Caslug, I had the exact OPPOSITE experience from you. I was hanging with my 3 nephews and their girl friends, I travel solo, after all I’m a marry modefoque and don’t want to end up with my nuts cut off. Anyway, I invited them all, kids from dirt poor neighborhoods, to la calle 79 and 82 to rumbiar with the wealthy folks. My idea did not go over with any of them, they all insisted in going to Soledad. I said, “Soledad, damnn, you guys is crazy, last time I was there it was a hell hole� “still is� they replied “but la rumbia is a lot more fun and a lot cheaper and real authentic� f—K it, let’s gotto Soledad then. We could not find taxis to take us there, so we had to jump in moto taxi and that was a long ass haul with many unpaved streets, dust and them freaking dogs chasing you ass down trying to bite your leg. We finally got there, all covered with dirt. Damnn, I’ve never seen so many broke ass corronchos in one place having so much fun. It was just like it was a few years back, but even more crowded. This was the bottom of the barrel, barranquilla’s poorest modefoques, no cremita here and they were all piss drunk. No cops here, only soldiers, these modefoques could get quite violent sometimes.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 1, 2005, 08:25:

I looked for some voluntary repatriation numbers on the net but I couldn't find any, Rubiazo. A better man than me, maybe Tinto, might be able to find some data.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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morphus says on Dec 1, 2005, 08:41:

Centro Medellin is'nt so bad at night. usually the worst that will happen is a drunk might fall on you. one night i wanted to go to a movie theater in Centro near Parque Bolivar with a girl. it was real sleazy looking. i thought it would be fun and it was only 5000 pesos. i think they were playing that Bruce Willis movie "Hostage". she said "no way" and wanted to go to the movie theater in El Tesoro.

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morphus says on Dec 1, 2005, 08:49:

Caslug, if you are hanging with girls from Poblado, they should be able to buy you a meal once in a while. i met girls from Poblado/Envigado and they bought me food...lol.

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Rubiazo says on Dec 1, 2005, 11:07:

I don't think they would track repatriation from the US HERE at all, it is not a figure of much interest to them. Historically repatriation has been pretty low, but I can see that changing a LOT.

My experience in Bogota has been very different from some of yours in Medellin. I had no problem going to all the diveyist places at night with my gf or with any of my friends down there. The one singer in a band I know down there had this great gig in Centro, and the keyboard player decided not to show up for the gig, because he was afraid for himself and is equipment (HIS words.) They just fired his ass from the band and did the show anyways!!

The first time I met my gf down there she took me to a hotel off of 1 de Mayo (she had paid the first day up front already!!) and we stayed for 40k pesos a night and partied right in the neighborhood.

I don't really like those 2500 pesos for lunch divey places though, because they have never heard of something called protein. They will serve you platanos with spaghetti and rice and one tiny little piece of chicken and call it lunch!

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Thededalus says on Dec 1, 2005, 12:00:

Juanalejo I relate to your frustration you experienced when you were told to leave the US if you're going to be critical.

Awhile back I started a post about my negative experiences in Colombia, and somebody got offended and suggested that I stay back home in suburbia.

That somebody was you...

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Thededalus says on Dec 1, 2005, 12:52:

Anyway... to share my two cents…

I’ve long been perplexed about the bit about how much warmer Colombians are. Colombians are indeed warm, and it isn’t uncommon, say, in a family social function, to be openly welcomed into someone’s home. I would get invitations to a pueblo, finca or restaurant by people I barely just met. This would make me feel a little awkward, as I wasn’t accustomed to this sort of thing, but I would usually still hesitantly accept. However, I soon learned that these sort of invites usually fall through, and so, I began to enthusiastically accept almost any invites, safe in the knowledge that it was likely meaningless. If on the off-chance, the invitation was legitimate, then awkwardness aside, I would see something new. Some would call this warmness while others might call it superficial. I feel rather quite neutral about it. It becomes predictable and you just adapt.

Also, I fully understand complaints of arrogance and ignorance in the US, and it’s certainly a problem. On the other hand, while they are probably in the minority, I personally know lots of people who don’t have this problem. (At the end of the day, it’s who you know, and not where you are, that affects your opinion of a place.) And, this problem isn’t entirely exclusive to the US. When I go to Colombia, I come across my fair share of stereotyping. When meeting people for the first time, it’s not uncommon for a Colombian to share almost straight away their opinion or ask questions that tend to boost their self-image: Americans are cold, they only eat frozen food, they have no rumba, etc. There is a certain amount of truth in all of this, but it becomes fairly repetitive after awhile…much like when someone here in the US instantly asks me about the drugs after the first time they learn I spent a year in Colombia. In my experience, Colombians, true to the stereotype, do have closer families, while Americans tend to have closer friends. I personally came away from my time there with very few close male friends, which also seems to be true of the other ex-pats I have met and known.

Anyway, I’m not trying to drag Colombia down, but add a little to the perspective. I love Colombia and still hope to go back on a semi-permanent basis. Like others here, I prefer the urban life of Bogota to the cookie-cuttery of US suburbia…. But again, in the end, it’s mostly about who you know…

Cheers.

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juanalejo says on Dec 1, 2005, 19:34:

Thededalus I am sorry if I got back at you one day, but reading being on this site and keeping composure as a Colombian is not easy, specially when you have many of your compatriots bitching about everything Colombian.

The big difference when I state my opinion is that I make sure it is my opinion and I leave a door open for some contradictory remarks if needed. What I found about your country is that people would not explain their opposite point of view to me they would simply dismiss me as a foreigner with no right of opinion.

Here in this site then you have the opposite, it is not that many people give their opinion on my country, is that they know for a fact that what they are saying is the one and only truth. So I learned that people need to be treated accordingly and so just do as I guess you are used to doing, and when I read those kind of remarks I simply dismiss them as that of foreigners with no right to opinion. I learned that in my years abroad.

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juanalejo says on Dec 1, 2005, 19:52:

And by the way When you read most of the long threads around are always made long because of the constant bitching about Colombian things. Then you guys complain when some of us try and put some comparing notes on what things are not good else where.

Then Chad opens this thread about Colombians viewing the USA and what do we get is you get jumpy, and guys like Caslug who have to state his completely off topic opinion on what he does not like about Colombia.

So this is a site about Colombia, the day you people begin by opening your minds to the diversity of the world, to the idea that the American way is not always the right way, that the bad guys exist everywhere, that the grass can be greener any where in the world, that everybody in world works hard for a living, that many of things happen differently because people think and act differently, that nationalities do not mold people the same way, that not all the people in poor countries are inefficient or corrupt, or that all those in rich countries are efficient and honest, and most of all that the big divide in the world is not between the rich and the poor in one country but between the rich and the poor in the world, then you might start asking intelligent questions and for sure you will start getting intelligent answers.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 1, 2005, 19:54:

I certainly wish that a rule could be enforced which would limit discussion to Colombia and things pertinent to Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Save the Wildcats says on Dec 1, 2005, 19:55:

That would make too much sense, UC.

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juanalejo says on Dec 1, 2005, 20:03:

So Colombians giving their opinion on the USA is not about Colombia and Americans giving their opinion on Colombia is? So having a Colombian nationality is not Colombian enough? Wow, what a surprise, but I could have imagined this type of idea poping up at some time.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 1, 2005, 20:16:

Good question, Juan. What is the purpose of PBH? Is it just supposed to be a sounding board for anyone about anything? So if you happen to be Colombian, you can post about any topic no matter how unrelated to Colombia? Hell, I've got 4 Colombians living in my house, my wife and my stepchildren. Is that enough of a Colombian connection so that I can just start random topics or post any rant that pops into my head?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Dec 2, 2005, 04:56:

Colombia Well I would imagine this site is about anything Colombian, which for some people who want to come here it could be opinions on the country, or for others living abroad and coming in contact with Colombians, could be trying to get the perspective by Colombians on things abroad.

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Thededalus says on Dec 2, 2005, 07:33:

Juanalejo I agree a Colombian's opinion of the US, or anywhere else for that matter, is fair game...

Still, if I'm understanding you correctly, I don't know why you lump me in with Americans who "know" they are right and dismiss foreigners as having no right to an opinion...or why you would think I deserve the same...

Anyway, for what it's worth, I feel as though the overwhelming sentiment toward Colombia from the non-Colombians on PBH is positive, but maybe my not being Colombian probably makes me less sensitive to the criticism.

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