Colombians in Venezuela Thank Chavez

juancegomez says on Jun 15, 2006, 09:10:

Some of them...not all of them "Good Article from Washington post about the 3 million Colombians in Venezuela."

It doesn't really provide a representative picture about what is or isn't going on with those 3 million, so no. It doesn't say anything about other problems that many Colombians in Venezuela still have to face.

"They are being provided Venezuelan citizenship through the Mission Identity program"

Only some of them are, not all or most of them. Can't generalize.

"A nice example of humane treatment towards immigrants."

For the moment, yes. But at the same time, many Colombians are often mistreated by other Venezuelans, just as they always have been.

"He thinks of the thousands in his native Colombia who lose their homes in mudslides every wet season due to poor housing conditions unaddressed by the government."

Considering that poor housing and resulting weather complications are also a problem in several regions of Venezuela, the above phrase is rather misleading, don't you think?

If those problems also exist in other regions of Venezuela, it's misleading to imply that they are only a Colombian concern.

"How am I not going to support Chavez?"

That's his choice, nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean that everything's rosy either.

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vladimiro says on Jun 15, 2006, 20:54:

The article says about 2 million Colombians are registered to vote in Venezuela and that 10 million total voted in the referendum. Colombians have a large influence on whether Chavez stays in power.

"These immigrants are benefiting from the medical, nutrition and other programs offered by Chavez. So, yes, they tend to vote for him," Anzola said.

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miamimike says on Jun 16, 2006, 08:41:

Interesting to Note... In all the years prior to the Arrival of chavez, were there equal criticisms of the former Venezuelan Presidencies? What did they do(or didn't do) to alleviate poverty in this Andean Nation? With all the Petro Money in the 70s, 80s, 90s expended, did much(if any) go to the poor neighborhoods for Schools, health care clinics? If Not, why Not? Where did the money go then and why NO criticism of former adminstrations prior to Chavez? We have many very Wealthy Venezuelan Millionaires who are now living in the Key Biscayne Area of Miami....What did they do to decrease poverty in Venezuela?

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Rubiazo says on Jun 21, 2006, 21:27:

The people in all along have been US puppets, generally at the beck and call of multinationals who came in and sucked the country dry, lining the pockets of a few already rich people along the way.

I'm not a communist or a socialist of any kind at ALL, but the situation was out of control there, and Chavez was the first guy with any balls to stand up to those guys and say 'enough is enough'!

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miamimike says on Jun 22, 2006, 22:18:

Rubiazo, I think somewhat like you.. I have posted this before as to why NO complaints about the Corruption present in the Venezuelan Govt PRIOR to Chavez and seldom recieve a good answer as to where all the Petrodollars(think many billions) in Venezuela evaporated to before Chavez came into being. Why NO words of Condemnation about these past Ven Politicos? The Problem didn't just start with Hugo!!! I have a hunch a portion of them(petrodollars) are tied up in those Ritzy Key Biscayne Florida Multi Million Dollars homes and condos owned by wealthy Venezuelanos. Go into the popular venezuelan watering hole called "Stefanos" on Key Biscayne and you sure don't see any Poverty ridden Venezuelans suffering there! And most have no gainful employment either, the beach in the day, dining and dancing at Stefanos by night...What a lifestyle...

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 23, 2006, 19:15:

OK Mike... Here are words of condemnation:

The populist kleptocrats before Chavez were awful, too. The money from PDVSA - just like the money from the Panama Canal - went God knows where. Probably Miami, as you point out.

Chavez is more of the same, and worse. Venezuela is going to hell in a handbasket, and the illusion that Chavez is any different from Cap, Perez, et. al. is just that.

Oh! He does wear a uniform, he has stacked the judiciary, destroyed the two party system, and introduced the most venal class of inutiles to the civil service that Venezuela has ever known.

I guess that should count as different.

Wasteland

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miamimike says on Jun 25, 2006, 00:54:

WL-what you say may be true, but its the business of the People in Venezuela. If that is what they want, so be it! To his Credit, He(chavez) is building Hospitals, Clinics, Schools in many poor neighborhoods; had the prior presidencies did the same, chances are someone like Hugo Chavez would not even be in Power today. Discontent never would have boiled over sufficiently to allow someone like him to rise to power. These Despots and their Wealthy minorities (in all the latin american countries, all make the same error; rob the poor, take the money and run, the poor become disenchanted and then a Pied Piper populist like Chavez comes along and Bingo, he's the new Prez. It happened in Cuba with Castro-you would think the wealthy ruling class in Venezuela would learn but they didn't. It happened in Chile with Pinochet but to their credit,THEY learned ; Divy up the economic pie. Same for Nicaragua, their ex Pres Aleman stole $92 Million for his own-he's in Jail!!! After Daniel Ortega you would have thought Aleman would have learned from recent history of Ortega but nope; Another one who didn't learn. Then there was Noriega of Panama and the Salinos brothers of Mexico, The list goes on and on and on..and now its Venezuela...and Bolivia....I wish the people well, they are a sovereign Nations with the right to pick choose their destiny, be it good or bad, irrespective of what the US wants. We(usa) should be concerned that he(chavez) keeps selling us Oil, what else he does is his business, we can't police the world with all the irons we have in the fire; Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea and an Army stretched way too thin.....Too often the US starts meddling in the business(past and future) of Central and South Americaan Nations and almost always, it has turned into a disaster....BTW, the USA shouldn't be too concerned, the last 5-6 years, South and Central America have all but been ignored by this administration, save for Colombia ...

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 25, 2006, 06:46:

Wow. That's quite a Jeremiad. As I indicated, I agree with you: corrupt, faux capitalist governments in Latin America have done poorly by their people.

That doesn't mean that corrupt, faux socialist governments are the answer.

And if you believe that this represents a net improvement:

MM: "To his Credit, He(chavez) is building Hospitals, Clinics, Schools in many poor neighborhoods"

Well, I'd suggest you be careful, and perhaps reserve judgement until you go and see for yourself.

Wasteland

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miamimike says on Jun 25, 2006, 11:11:

I've been to Venezuela a few times.. had NO problems with the people or politics or thie President. Its their business who they elect as it is our business here in the US to elect who we want without interference. Someday we(us) should learn our lesson concerning SA, No one (I think) likes a meddler....

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 25, 2006, 20:04:

Hey Mike - Do you think that it's a logical fallacy to dismiss criticism of any particular government with an admonission that we shouldn't meddle?

I mean, yes, of course: we shouldn't subvert Venezuela's democracy. Or Colombia's for that matter.

Of course its their business. I think that Venezuelans have chosen poorly, and its an open debate as to whether they have a choice any longer.

I thought you and I were discussing the merits of Chavez administration... no?

Wasteland

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miamimike says on Jun 25, 2006, 20:31:

No, I look at Chavez objectively without Bias... "If they no longer have a choice" let them stay and overthrow those with who they disagree with! How he governs is his business and that of the citizens of Venezuela. We should keep our noses out of his business but so far we haven't and we may pay dearly for it if he cuts us off from the oil. We get 17% of our daily Oil supply from Chavez. Want to see Gas hit $5 gallon? All it would take is for Chavez to stop the Tankers! I feel our CIA had a hand in the Coup that almost tossed him out a few years ago. I know the US denies it but at the same time there was nothing but silence from the administration; think if someone attempted to overthrow Urribe the US would have sat back and said absolutely nothing??? I know also here in Miami it is popular for the Exiled Cubans and now Venezuelans to badmouth castro, Morales, Chavez and the truth is I don't listen to these two groups (miami cubans and venezuelans)when it comes to freedom bla bla ect. If their freedom meant so much they would have stayed in their respective countries and fought instead of running to Miami. If we didn't fight 200 years ago our own history would be much different, we determined our own destiny because our freedom was worth it-the Cubans and Venezuelans residing here need to look at our History and repeat it instead of cat calling across the Sea-it'll get 'em no where and not much respect/sympathy! Plenty of rich cubans and venezuelans reside here so if they need funding in place for a revolution, all they have to do is open the pursestrings and remitt the money home . I have no respect for them, those who run, for sure, all Hat and No Cattle as they say....They would do well to pay heed to the words of this man; "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety".
--Benjamin Franklin

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 25, 2006, 20:39:

OK Copy all.

Wasteland

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Dolfi says on Jun 26, 2006, 01:01:

Why is it so hard for americans to accept a democratically elected president from the left of the political spectre anywhere?

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miamimike says on Jun 26, 2006, 01:41:

Dolfi, they better get used to it...Some Americans(not all) because thats the tilt of contemporary south american politics as it stands now. Brazil, Chile, Venezuela ect all going left. The new female president seems pretty Qualified and well respected BTW, Michelle Batchlett, a Doctor. The prior Chilean Prez, Lagos was a left leaner yet look how well Chile is doing economically, best economy in South America. Its their destiny to choose....

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 26, 2006, 06:41:

I think it's a mistake to equate... ... Lula and Bachelet, on the one hand, with Chavez and Morales on the other - as though they represented the same movement or even ideology.

They don't.

Wasteland

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mcraig says on Aug 7, 2006, 11:39:

Your taking about a poor country give there citizens money away to more poor people. A humane gesture year right ! A humane gesture would be here is your citizenship card a job to supporet your family an good schools to teach your children. Not handing out free soup line an welfare what an absolute pile of crap continue the welfare conditions.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2006, 13:27:

The meds, the meds, where are the meds?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mcraig says on Aug 8, 2006, 16:14:

Yeah tell that to the 10.000 jobs good paying jobs american oil companies where paying for along with a good chunk of the profit to country in taxes that was lost when Chavez made his entrance. You think those 10,000 jobs in the oil industries are making the same money now , or there replacements being paid close to what they where paid when there was a partnership there. Of course not it all goes to Chavez an the jobs pay dirt just like usual with a socialist.

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mcraig says on Aug 8, 2006, 16:17:

Castro murdered all of the people that tried to fight for freedo Or did your history lessons stop before that. Why do you think there in Cuba because Castro was killing famlies not just one or two of the family members. He killed 12 people last year that got caught tryin to make it to america by firing squad you nut job.

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mcraig says on Aug 8, 2006, 16:19:

Brazil is the best economy in latin america An all the investment is pulling out of Chile because of goverment crackdowns.

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mcraig says on Aug 8, 2006, 16:21:

democratic goverment when people where marching by the thousands against Chavez an somehow he won. Our did you forget this an a democratic country has free markets Chavez is privatizing everything closing down free markets.

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greg says on Aug 9, 2006, 15:34:

You forget About the millions who marched in support of Chavez after the U.S.
backed coup attempt. Chavez is probably the most popular leader in the western hemisphere.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2006, 21:25:

Oh, yeah, well my millions were bigger than your millions.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mcraig says on Aug 9, 2006, 21:27:

Chavez dream of a US coup attempt we have had the same people there for twenty-five years all the sudden they have failed at a coup attempt. Why if the US wanted Chavez gone we would go through the hassle of a coup we would simply come an take him like Noriega right off the roof of a house running like a coward after talking like some tough guy. Hiding in a church like a chicken shi$.

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Dolfi says on Aug 10, 2006, 00:43:

mcraig, you must be dreaming. Invading a big country like Venezuela is quite a different job, especially when the people support the government and hate the invaders.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 11, 2006, 15:39:

Why Chavez and not the kleptocrats before him? MiamiMike, there was plenty of criticisim of the previous regimes in Venezuela. One of the most depressing things about Venezuela when you begin to look closely is that, despite how screwy Chavez is, there's not even a better option living overseas or a viable opposition within the country. The place is just flat-out screwed.

But I don't think Chavez should get a get out of jail free card just because the people he overthrew were corrupt scumbags, too.

I haven't spent enough time in Venezuela to know all the ins and outs of Chavez's programs, but I do know that there are a LOT of very poor people doing without and that the country seems do have difficulty maintaining even basic infrastructure ie. the friggin main road to the airport had a 4 lane bridge FALL DOWN.

Chavez has been in power for 7 years. In a country with oil reserves comparable to Kuwait, during a period of historically high oil prices, it's just unforgivable to see such deriliction and poverty.

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