Colombians angry over Gore and Senate freeze. (new laws to visit Colombia)

Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 12:01:

If the US citizens had to pay for thier visas, or there were additional hoops to jump through, Uribe would be shooting himself in the foot, IMHO......Tourism $$ does not have the "strings" that US tax money has....i dont see how Uribe would even bother to recognize Gore, as he doesnt represent the US nor its citizens as a whole.....so if Gore pulls out, all that means is there will be more air to breathe at the conference......but it does sound like typical political "chest beating" to me......


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 21, 2007, 12:35:

"Colombians angry"? Some, maybe, certainly not me. Apparently, Uribe is really worried about what Al Gore thinks of him. I tried to read Uribe's press conference, the one he called in regards of this issue, and, to be honest, I'm tired and bored with Uribe's repetitive ranting. He gets all pissed off, as usual (he likes to convey the Colombian icon of the "berraco," it scores some favorability points), then suggests some kind of demagogic move, like revising visa regulations for US visitors, and then we'll all forget about it. Nice use of the presidency.

Now he is all pissy because he has serious opposition with Gustavo Petro (along with other important figures in PDA). Petro's accusations are VERY serious: More than a few of Uribe's allies are in jail or awaiting trial because of Petro's and Claudia Lopez's investigations. Uribe's tactics are predictable: He first dismisses any accusation as frivolous; then, when the evidence is overwhelming, he says that it is thanks to his policies that we are learning what's going on. Riiiggght... And now he wants to play the old record again.

Although he gets his mouth filled with the word, when it comes to actual democracy, Mr. Uribe is apparently not so fond of it. Any accusation against him is taken as an affront to the nation... and then people wonder why they call him a fascist. As for Al Gore, he is a private individual, and if he doesn't want to be associated with Uribe (I know I wouldn't) he can do as he feels like. I'm sure Don Rumsfeld wouldn't attend a meeting with Chavez... would that be an insult to Venezuela? If it wasn't the president making these ridiculous tantrums, this would not be a serious matter.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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scotty says on Apr 21, 2007, 13:34:

gore is a jerk. however Uribe should just look at the source and move on.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 13:40:

This thread should have lots of interesting response in the next 24 hours.
It seems this could affect just about everyone who writes on or frequents PBsH, in some small or larger adverse way, if some of the threats here came to pass.

Has anyone seen any response from any other USA authorities to these matters?

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 13:46:

scotty.... you're going to see soon, in this thread.... at least IMHO, this is an extremely complex matter, that is beginning to unfold, that again, IMHO, could eventually, change ALOT of what is status quo for now, in regards to USA/Colombian relations and even more so, the eventual re-aligning of powers in So. America.

Sr. Tertius....You think? Or, is this all a bunch of smoke going up, for naught, at the moment?

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 21, 2007, 14:58:

Colombians' opinion Elfeliz: "Sr. Tertius....You think? Or, is this all a bunch of smoke going up, for naught, at the moment?" The latter.

Rodadero: I don't know who wrote that piece in the Manizales paper, but it doesn't sound like Spanish is his/her native language. On the other hand, I'm reading something quite different in the commentaries in El Espectador, such as

"En mi concepto: Comparto la posicion del expresidente Al gore, por cuanto no quiere estar al lado de un presidente que esta cuestionado por presuntos vinculos con el Paramilitarismo, grupo criminal que esta sindicados de delitos graves como Asesinatos, Secuestros, Torturas, desapariciones entre otros, asi el objetivo del presidente Uribe con todo el respeto que se merece, si apoyo o colaboro a los paramilitares con el objetivo de acabar con la guerrilla o la delincuencia; ese hecho ante la Constitucion de nuestro Pais, es ilegal, razon por la cual se debe investigar y castigarase con todo el peso de la Ley."

One of the longest sentences in the Spanish language, indeed, but that's a very Colombian defect in writing. I haven't heard on any polls on this matter, but I believe it is unlikely that anyone's opinion on the US is going to change because of this small incident (BTW, it's already out of El Tiempo's headlines).

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 21, 2007, 15:05:

I hope that they make it extremely difficult for US citizens to visit Colombia. Nothing could be better than that.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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platano says on Apr 21, 2007, 15:49:

Is Gore's family still drilling on the U'wa territory? Back in 2000 the U'Wa people were very disturbed by Occidental Petroleum plans to drill for
oil in their lands. They warned that if the oil project went forward the area would
become yet another center of violent conflict between the military, paramilitaries and
guerilla factions. The Gore family had close ties with Occidental (major stockholders).

So Gore's history with Colombia is not exactly a pretty one. The U'Wa people at one point threatened mass suicide because Gore's economic interest was punching holes in the U'Wa mother: mother earth.
plátano

plátano

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 21, 2007, 16:49:

The thing I've always loved about Al Gore is his hypocrisy, whether it's his interest in Occidental, his actions as a notorious slum lord or the pollution that he's responsible for near his home in Tennessee.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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chester says on Apr 21, 2007, 17:17:

thanks al you fat POS

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 18:12:

Or the tabacco farm... they (Gores) own....His hypocracy is neverending.

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johann911 says on Apr 21, 2007, 18:56:

f*** gore al gore is a lying pos douchebag. most u.s. citizens don't give a flying rat's ass about what comes out of his hypocritical piehole.
he is a brainless political whore whose career was mercifully over long ago. why can't he get it through his thick skull?
Leahy is a pinhead too.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:01:

of course, we should be given the 'grandfather' clause...if we have already been there, eh?
UTC, that's not very nice of you to hope we cannot visit Colombia, (just because you already have your lady here in the States with you, and I'm guessing, that if something were to happen to her - heaven forbid - then, you would be likely changing that stance)

(man cannot live on Blow-Up Colombianas alone)

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:04:

go 'head, Johann911! the global warming he's getting notoriety for, is mostly due to the warmed-0ver crapola coming out both ends

Gore es un payaso gordito.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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johann911 says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:22:

Bravo Feliz! the things he pulled when he was in office were inexcusable.
now the global warming flick and he's putting out more co2 than 50 other people. i'm glad he "lost" to dubya but for the love of God,
i wish he would crawl back under his rock.
he's like a strain of antibiotic resistant clap, he juuuuust won't go AWAY!

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chester says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:22:

the original poster is playing us. he is full of shit. show me the link to this story.

gore is still full of it.

but this report about Visas being required is BS.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:43:

Mike? Como esta en Valledupar?

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 19:43:

who wrote that piece in the Manizales paper, but it doesn't sound like Spanish is his/her native language.....sr tertius

Mus be Mike.

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:19:

Hey, am I still invited to Valleduparero? Is she signing a hat for me?

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:24:

I'm not sure I am ready for a border town ;) Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:25:

desi, he's being a hombre with good manners tonight, so... Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:25:

so, maybe you can sleep late this morning Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:25:

She looks kind of sweet... Mikey.

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:31:

Well, the emails where... a nice touch, don't you think?

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:40:

A Life-Time Sentence, is I think.... HONORARY, DISTINCT, AND .... UNPRECEDENTED!

You're 1 of a kind.

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:41:

Looks like Mikey was BeerMan as well... Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:42:

muchas gracias, por la pintura Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:45:

I would add Pelosi, Leahy, Reid, and Kennedy to the F&%K Gore list......jajaja....]

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:47:

In Mikey's case they would need to make it.. a 10,000 lifetime ban to really make it stick. BTW, make sure you simmer that soup a long time as that kind of meat tends to be rather tough.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:52:

Siempre .... una del grande: Mike! un otro Miguel.
Oh! No.

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:54:

who can remember 7 days ago, Roda?
Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:56:

You know.....your piss-poor el espanol.... really gets the best of a few people around here,
I mean, you don't want to be cate-GOR-IZED with el feliz, now do ya?

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 21, 2007, 20:57:

hey Rodent How's the dial-up in de Valle?

Imagine...

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 21:14:

Mikey, la que le estas efreciendo.... a Tinto (la derecha) tiene care de tipo, no? Y la de la izquierda, no tiene tetas, que pasa?

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 21:26:

We centainly wouldn't have wanted her... snuffed out.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 21:45:

Have fun at the disco.. but no more photos holding up a sheep!!! with your pants dropped,.....that was really weird, dude!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 21:47:

Have a good one Mike... BTW, I don't think there's a chance in hell that Colombia will impose travel/visa restrictions on visitors from the US, at least not any time soon.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 22:04:

Hey! Mikee can play the skin flute!!! jajajajaj...jk, dude~ and stay away from those chicks with nutsacks, too...!!!!...that photo was just nastyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 22:10:

Or even the hand.. organ ;)

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 21, 2007, 22:12:

HaHa! There is an asian restaurant in SJ called "Hand Pull" i would never EAT in there......jajaja

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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billyb says on Apr 21, 2007, 22:18:

In particular, never order... "cream of sum yung guy soup" there ;)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 21, 2007, 22:55:

Actually, El Feliz, I would not change that stance regardless of what might happen to my wife. I didn't go looking for a Colombiana and if, God forbid, something happened to her I still wouldn't go looking for a Colombiana. In any event, she's not a real Colombiana anyway as no real Colombiana would ever leave Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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platano says on Apr 21, 2007, 23:01:

Isn't it really a bipartisan affair? Miguel Clavo said: "I would add Pelosi, Leahy, Reid, and Kennedy to the F&%K Gore"

Bill Murray said:
"Hey, I'm a voter.
Aren't you supposed to lie to me
and kiss my butt?"

That's what politicians of both parties do.
plátano

plátano

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 21, 2007, 23:03:

Hilarious Uribe's clearly trying to distract the Colombian public from his troubles domestically by raising their ire about Gore's "snub" because, frankly, nobody in the US give a shit about Gore's choices of whom he cares to appear next to NOR do most Americans even know who Uribe is, much less care if Gore snubs him.

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platano says on Apr 21, 2007, 23:35:

Las malas lenguas dicen... that a Gore presidential campaign is ramping up, so maybe it was a preemptive decision. Someone could conceivably use it against Gore that he appeared with Uribe, who in turn has supported (tacitly or actively) the Convivirs and autodefensas that evolved into the AUC and their chainsaw massacres of people on their famous lists which in turn created millions of displaced, which in turn... etc. etc.

Not something a presidential candidate wants to risk being associated with given the propensity for attack ads and smear campaigns to resurrect old photos and "swiftboat" people's political ambitions.plátano

plátano

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miamimike says on Apr 21, 2007, 23:50:

Colombians I had Dinner with Tonight Didn't even bring up Gore's Name so I would take this offense with a Grain of Salt. They are less then happy with Uribe though so there always two sides to the story,,, On radio Caracol in Miami(1260 am, all colombian station) it hasn't even been mentioned since yesterday so where is the Outrage? LOL Countries have Snubbed George W Bush(like on his argentina visit) I never took it personally, why would I? Sure won't influence my next visit to Argentina! Chavez more then Snubs Bush and will it affect my Visit to Meridan, Venezuela? Not a Whit! As long as the individual citizens treat you OK that is all that matters! Got to have a thick skin in this World,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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scotty says on Apr 22, 2007, 00:23:

rubito i just have a question for you, are you a communist? you sound very much like a castro/chavez kinda guy,you sound beyond socialist or left wing, you sound communist to me? just curious?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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goin_south says on Apr 22, 2007, 02:25:

Let's Hand Gore over to Las FARC.
Colombia; It's no Disneyland.
It's.... THE MAD HATTER!

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 22, 2007, 02:46:

es muy tarde Roda... an interesting post;
maybe it survives the night and day.

Colombia; It's no Disneyland.
It's.... THE MAD HATTER!

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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scotty says on Apr 22, 2007, 03:57:

Ucowboy really, do you really think things would be better if fringos didnt visit or move to colombia or envest in colombia or buy colombian products, or send them financial aid. do you really think that would be better...how so? how is that gonna help colombia?
what we need is a president that will stand up to the jackass gore, condem gores statements and attitude and then Bush should praise and appologize to the Colombian people for the rudeness shown by gore. Bush should welcome Uribe to this country for a meeting and more praise. Bush should step all over gore and show colombians we arent all like the al gore jackass. damn i might even send a letter to our president and complain about gores rudeness. hell i might even send a letter to the girly man gore.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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miamimike says on Apr 22, 2007, 07:23:

Still looking for Colombian Outrage here in Miami Over Gore's allegded snub of Uribe yet not much, if any, has surfaced on TV or Radio Caracol. Miami should be a good test Barometer of Colombian Ex Pat public opinion so by the abscence of public Colombian Outroar here, I would take this Spat with a grain of salt. Doesn't appear many Colombians are too offended by the issue. I think Bush has too many problems in his own backyard to enter into any spats with Gore or anyone else. AG "I don't recall" Gonzalez for one,,,LOL LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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aztec says on Apr 22, 2007, 07:49:

rubito, i just have a question for you, are you a communist? scotty, I don't believe he is. Probably closer to an anarchist. Although, His political philosophy appears to lie somewhere between Libertarianism and Anarchism .

"Anarchy, in its broadest sense, refers to the situation in which a human society exists without a state. Anarchism advocates the absence of the state."

"The term libertarianism refers to a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives."

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 22, 2007, 08:15:

Scotty, nothing that gringos or their government does is done with the interest of helping Colombia. It's all done in the interests of the US and if it screws Colombia, so be it. Colombia, along with every other country on the globe, would be better off if gringos minded their own gd business.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Apr 22, 2007, 12:47:

UTC---Somewhere in the Mix, IMHO, the Interest is OIL US Support for Colombia is OIL. Plan Colombia, as far as cutting the Cocaine Pipeline to the USA has failed. Failed because supply and quality/purity to the USA is way up. US Cocaine street prices are down. Surely it cannot be due to a shortage of US funds,,,


That would be a foolish move on Colombia's Part to add a restrictive layer upon US Citizens to secure a Tourist Visa. They(Col) iniate this, and many First Time Casual Tourists simply will bypass Colombia and head to similiar Andean countries without the Visa BS. Other previous visitors will simply bypass Colombia for other SA Countries unless they have a vested interest(family, business ect)That would put a real drag on Tourist Dollars though for some, I suppose they may prefer less tourists. That would be a Death Blow to many Latin Introduction agencies as well as the Budding Medical Tourism Trade Colombia Medical Professionals hope to cultivate.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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cali373 says on Apr 22, 2007, 13:08:

I am not pissed off either
I am not pissed off either

Smile if you are a thinker!

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cali373 says on Apr 22, 2007, 13:10:

One thing about Gore, At least he won the election.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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aztec says on Apr 22, 2007, 14:41:

cali373 Gore did not win the election.

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Simon says on Apr 22, 2007, 16:30:

"Visa requirement...
Obviously that would be a negative thing for just about anybody on here"


If this would keep Rabito and others like him out of Colombia, then I'm all for it!

Just kidding ,haha

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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scotty says on Apr 22, 2007, 17:21:

U Cowboy We finally agree on something. I also think gringos (americans) should leave ALL countries we are now involved in. Wouldnt that be a great experiment? I would just love for the American goverment to come on TV and announce that we will no longer send any financial aid no matter how desperate the need is.No industrial aid, no medical aid even in times of catastraphe, no military aid of any kind not even parts and ammunition for now purchased weapons, no other type of aid to any country, goverment or people on the planet. We are pulling ALL of our troops home from every location in the world , all our military bases and factories will pull out.
No one should even bother to ask us for any sort of aid of any kind. We will gladly trade with any country and exchange ideas but our days of being involved beyond trade are over, we quit.
Can you just imagine what would happen around the world if the bad guys knew that america would not stop them from doing what they want to do? can you imagine how the good people of the world would react, the fear knowing that they could no longer depend on the USA to support them in time of need.
Think about it, think about a world with out gringos. Its fine with me. Its not the american way but what the hell maybe its time we pull back and let the world work it out themselves or destroy each other in the process. gingo go home! ok, fine with me, lets go!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Apr 22, 2007, 17:29:

el feliz you have some good points and good questions. yea i agree with you i think there is some big changes coming to South America. I think whats happening in SA is also happening around the world. People/countries are realigning their support. There really is a line being drawn in the sand around the world and in Sa we can see this very clearly.
If you watch the news you can see countries lining up.
Some countries will go the path of capitalistic some will go the way of socialist/communistic. Look what has happened in just the last few years.
Going to towards communism/socialism Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, others.
Going more towards capilatism Brazil, Colombia, Chile, etc
Its going to be interesting to see what happens in this part of the world over the next decade.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 22, 2007, 18:08:

3 posts above That must be the most bizarre sense of international politics I've ever read. Would the Federation also retreat from Klingon territory?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 22, 2007, 18:23:

I thought all those "-isms" were a matter of the past I guess some people haven't walked out of the fallout shelter.

BTW, philosophically, I'm a Bokononist.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 22, 2007, 21:40:

Geez, Scotty, you make the US government sound like some kind of charitable enterprise. It's not. The citizens of the world would like nothing more than that the US keep its "aid" and mind its own business instead of trying to topple governments and manipulate the world for its own depraved goals. I have absolutely ZERO confidence in this country's military-industrial complex and it's threat to freedom-loving people everywhere, not to mention it's own citizens. They would gladly turn us into slaves - it's way past time for the citizenry to take up arms against the government in a second American Revolution. Our patriot ancestors must be disgusted to see how their noble experiment has failed.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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aztec says on Apr 23, 2007, 06:39:

Sr Tertius, I thought all those "-isms" were a matter of the pas You would think so but some of don't remember our history and continue to make the same mistakes.

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juancegomez says on Apr 23, 2007, 09:57:

Hmm... I think Mr. Hollywood does have a point...I don't believe that too many U.S. citizens will care about or even notice this issue in the first place either, so as far as I can tell, the impact of this move will mostly be restricted to Democratic congressional circles. Which does carry a certain importance, needless to say.

Btw, I haven't really heard much about Colombia's really wanting to strengthen regulations for U.S. visitors, so I would be cautious about the matter until it actually becomes an issue worth discussing.

As for the "Plan Colombia = oil" equation, I think it's a bit simplistic...oil, as vital as it may be as a resource, is only one of the many U.S. interests involved here.

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