Colombian Transexual Discriminated at Work

Albatross says on May 11, 2006, 10:02:

. I wouldn't hire him...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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juancegomez says on May 11, 2006, 10:12:

... I would want to give this person equal rights in the workplace, but it would be very difficult to overcome psychological and cultural prejudices completely. Overcoming that will take decades, at least.

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Blue says on May 11, 2006, 10:40:

I wonder if "she" likes gringos. hahaha

Blue

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michaelz says on May 11, 2006, 10:42:

discrimination From what I understand, jobs are a bit scarce in Colombia. Could it be possible that

Before everyone starts yelling "discrimination", some questions may be in order:

How many people applied for the same job?
Of these, what percentage were hired?
Were the people who were hired more or less qualified than she?
Were the people who were hired friends/family/accociates of the person who did the hiring? (meaning that she may have been a victim of nepotism, rather than gender bias)

I've seen this at my own job. Someone is turned down for a job yells "discrimination", when there are other more obvious reasons.

I'm not saying she in definately wrong, just that there is not enought info to tell.

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juanalejo says on May 11, 2006, 10:43:

Compensation I hope she gets compensation, society needs to learn that she is entitled to her rights even if they do not agree with her choice of life.

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juanalejo says on May 11, 2006, 10:54:

Patsygringo Jajaja, and then Emilio would not find a "surprise" when going to bed, Laisa is still just a Transvesti (both in the novela and in real life) so she still has got a "surprise" that Emilio has got no idea about. I don´t like watching much TV, but Los Reyes does make me laugh for an hour each day.

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Colombiche says on May 11, 2006, 10:55:

Michael The article states that she applied for the job and was called for a 15 minute test to prove her abilities. The test consisted of stuccoing a wall that measured 15 square meters. Apparently, she scored 5/5 and was hired. She filled out all the forms and the day when she was supposed to start working, she was told by two of the engineers that they could not work with somebody like her (transexual).

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on May 11, 2006, 10:57:

This article got my attention Because here I actually work with a transexual. HE was hired as a guy, but one day the boss told us "hey guys ----- is coming dressed as a woman tomorrow. From now on he is going to use the ladies' washroom."

I guess my coworker is technically still a transvestite, because he/she hasn't had the surgery yet (she is taking hormones,boy is she ever moody). I must admit at the beginning it was a bit funny when I would run into her at the ladies' room. Some of the girls in the other offices got really abusive for a while, so we had to find a way to get her a private washroom (no way she could go back to using the guys' room).

Now we moved buildings and it is just part of everyday life to see her 6'4 reflection walk into a stall while I'm checking my makeup on the wall mirror.

I really don't have a problem with it, it's her body, her choice. If she is willing to put herself through such an ordeal, being one of the chicas must really mean a lot to her!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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juanalejo says on May 11, 2006, 11:23:

Patsygringo That makes two of us, I hate watching the X, it is the same thing day after day. If time permits I just watch Los Reyes, it is a easy laugh and disconnects me from work.

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begottenson says on May 11, 2006, 12:56:

Actually Big A God so loved the world that he gave it me and he just told me he doesn't care about sex changers as long as they still give him money. Seriously.... he told me that... in an email, I'll forward it to you if you want.

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platano says on May 11, 2006, 12:58:

The Big A, Could you please give me God's physical street address? Does she live in Bogota? I want to go visit her and find out if all that stuff they said 2,000 years ago applies today. I want the straight skinny directly from her, not from old books or her representatives.

plátano

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begottenson says on May 11, 2006, 13:01:

Platano Hey
God doesn't want me giving that out but you can send stuff to me C/O.

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platano says on May 11, 2006, 13:05:

Nope... No more intermediaries. I want the physical address. I want to visit and straighten this out (no pun intended) with the big dudette herself.

(just like Pastrana did with the FARC. I expect God will be playing the role of Mr. Pedro Antonio Marin)

plátano

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Colombiche says on May 11, 2006, 13:08:

These are very difficult decisions.. who is to decide what is right? Like platano says, let's get the truth from God himself without having to go through any intermediaries that claim to speak on his behalf.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on May 11, 2006, 13:19:

It's hard to say where to draw the line... The fact of the matter is, in Colombia, people like 'Magali' still face a lot of discrimination. Regardless of whether you think having a sex change is right or wrong, theoretically you should be hiring this person based on his/her skills. Everybody works with people whose moral values are not in concordance with your own. Right now, the guy sitting in the cubicle beside yours could be a child molester for all you know, but because he appears "normal" he blends in and you are not judging him.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on May 11, 2006, 13:29:

hmmm True-dat!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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juanalejo says on May 11, 2006, 16:05:

Magali I hope she gets lots of compensation. This is a free country, she is entitled to do, think or act however she wants as long as she does not harm any body. There are plenty of intolerant people in Colombia and that is why we have many of the problems we have. When people start getting fined for their intolerance then we will be moving in the right direction.

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johna says on May 11, 2006, 18:43:

Should employer have to hire her/him? So if there was a job offering and she/he was qualified to do the work, the but was not offered after interviewing, and the company hired someone less qualified, is that discrimination? Does the employer have to offer the job to the more qualified person?
I understand that she/he was offered a job and then not utilized, so it is a little different.
I run into situations like this in my job. I interview someone with decent qualifications, but there is something about there interview that I don't like. They are too agressive about getting the job, not friendly, not clean, not dressed for an interview, only want to talk about their religion, kids, family, awards, etc.. It is not exactly the same as this situation, but there are similarities. How can you be totally fair when hiring someone? You have to look for people who can work with others and not be offensive. So you have someone who shows up to an interview in drag, that is a lifestyle choice, so no discrimination. Then you have someone who smells awful, and hair is really greasey and they come in to interview. This person says he is an environmentalist and showers waste money, and deoderent causes cancer. So his appearance is a lifestyle choice, so no discrimination. But should you be forced to hire either one of these people?

I think there have to be standards at work. Companies can have dress codes. For example people who are anatomically men, should wear slacks and a button up shirt at work. You can wear whatever you want when you are off the clock.

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Rubiazo says on May 11, 2006, 23:02:

at Johna Read again. The guy was hired and THEN told afterwards they had changed their minds.

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Albatross says on May 12, 2006, 04:12:

. Just as people have the right to choose who enters their home, they have the right to choose enters their business. If a proprietor doesn't like Trannies, (or Blacks or Whites or Men or Women) they're free to hire someone else.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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johna says on May 12, 2006, 08:36:

Rubiazo I did read it, and understood, but my question was hypothetical. I am asking if it is still discrimination if they didn't hire her becuase of being different?

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juanalejo says on May 12, 2006, 14:53:

Sexual Orientation It is illegal to discriminate in Colombia based on sexual orientation.

“Conforme a la Constitución y a los tratados de derechos humanos, es claro que la homosexualidad no puede ser considerada una enfermedad, ni una anormalidad patológica, que deba ser curada o combatida, sino que constituye una orientación sexual legítima, que constituye un elemento esencial e íntimo de la identidad de una persona, por lo cual goza de una protección constitucional especial, tanto en virtud de la fuerza normativa de la igualdad como por la consagración del derecho al libre desarrollo de la personalidad. Todo lenguaje tendiente a estigmatizar a una persona por su orientación sexual es entonces contrario a la Carta y es explícitamente rechazado por esta Corporación. En ese mismo orden de ideas, toda diferencia de trato fundada en la diversa orientación sexual equivale a una posible discriminación por razón de sexo y se encuentra sometida a un control constitucional estricto.”

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Rubiazo says on May 12, 2006, 15:11:

Tinto Sexual orientation is DEFINTIELY in the discriminating list for housing and employment and everything else here in NYC! The laws in the US vary from state to state though, it is not a federal matter.

Interestingly enough because I own a 2 family house and live in it I am legally allowed under NYS law to discriminate on who I want to live here. I could put 'NO NIGGERS NEED APPLY' on the application if I wanted, I could set age limits, ask for Buddhists only, do whatever I wanted. Weird huh?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 12, 2006, 15:37:

Thanks and I think I understand it except for one key thing: Does the anti-discrimination language govern only the relationship between state (public) entitites and private citizens or does it apply to all relationships, for example an employment relationship between a private business and a private citizen? In other words, did the construction company in the story clearly break a law?

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juanalejo says on May 12, 2006, 16:50:

Private This law applies to private businesses and private citizens, as well as public entities.

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 12, 2006, 16:50:

"God never designed that man to be a women" Big A wrote, "God never designed that man to be a women. "

If that's true then, Big A, why did your god design medical science and doctors to be able to turn a man into a woman? Either the dude is an all-powerful diety or not. Can't go giving him all the credit and none of the responsibility.

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juanalejo says on May 12, 2006, 16:53:

Hermaphrodites And I wonder what God was thinking when he created hermaphrodites.

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Colombiche says on May 12, 2006, 17:06:

I wonder what God was thinking.... When he put nipples on men.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Rubiazo says on May 12, 2006, 23:58:

They're still errogenous zones I like having mine bit, but I'm pussy-whipped right now so I will not offer them to you at this time. You will have to find yourself another set of man-nipples :)

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hisociedad says on May 13, 2006, 01:03:

Descriminacion Magaly, un trasvestido o transgenero es mujer, aun que para el comun cueste creerlo, pues un organo no lo define como tal. No has visto por ejemplo, despues de las luchas de género, que en muchas partes ya no pregunta por el sexo sino por el genero?

Magaly puede ir en estos momentos a cualquier parte publica, institucion, etc, y si le preguntan por su genero y dice que es hombre, no tienen por que hacer repulsas. Es un ser humano y como tal debe respetarse.

Hemos cambiado un poco en Colombia, pero igual seguimos de ignorantes, aunque logros si se han dado. Magaly no fue hacer pruebas para enseñar educación sexual a un colegio de adolescentes, ella presento pruebas en su gremio pero se metio en camisa de 11 barras...

que harian ustedes si Magaly fuera su familiar? Se sentirían orgullosos por que la decriminaron.... o la pondrían estudiar actuación para que fuera la competencia de Laiza Reyes ?

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colombian18 says on May 13, 2006, 06:04:

blatant dsicrimination One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

Its illegal, its blatant discrimination.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

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Colombiche says on May 13, 2006, 12:32:

Rubito That was a bit more info than I wanted to "hear", but thanks anyway ...

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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webmanco says on May 13, 2006, 18:37:

on a related note Taken from El Tiempo

Sandra Morales says she was fired from the police because of her debility with women.

A litenaunt once told her, you leave your relationship with that (female) pilot or I will make you get fired from the Police.


Click on the picture for the full article in spanish

"Me sacaron de la Policía por ser lesbiana", dice teniente (r) que lleva 5 años peleando reingreso

Tras ser salvada de un secuestro, Sandra Mora eligió portar uniforme. La Institución dice que se le aplicó la facultad discrecional.

Ella recuerda que cuando tenía 9 años la secuestró una familia de asaltantes de almacenes. Una mujer, sus cinco hijos y dos de sus nueras, la cargaban por distintas ciudades del país mientras cometían sus fechorías.


Hoy, a sus 33 años, pese a que dice no olvidar un solo momento de su cautiverio, no le gusta hablar del tema. De hecho, en una larga conversación, apenas si lo menciona cuando trata de explicar por qué volver a ser policía se le convirtió en una obsesión.


No lo da por seguro, pero sugiere que algo puede tener que ver lo que sintió el día de su rescate. Ya para entonces tenía 12 años y a una casa de una ciudad del Eje Cafetero llegó un piquete de uniformados con su mamá al frente. "Yo lo primero que oí fue la voz de mi mamá que dijo: ‘¡Sandra!’. Y ahí mismo supe que era ella".


También se acuerda de que por muchos años, ya en libertad, nunca más se volvió a reír. Y que solo recuperó algo de alegría cuando entró a la Escuela General Santander y se dio cuenta de que era buena para el oficio.


En su rostro se alcanzan a percibir rastros de esa historia: ahora se ríe más a menudo pero con una especie de torpeza en el gesto, propia de quien aprende tarde.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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juanalejo says on May 14, 2006, 07:28:

Business If you hire a model, absolutely beautiful and she causes hazzle and you fire her because she is too pretty, you are liable because, same if you hire somebody without a hand and everybody wants to look at him or her, or if you hire somebody in a wheelchair, etc. Same goes for gays, lesbians, etc. That is the law and I am glad it is. No excuse is valid for firing or not hiring anybody because they are different than the norm.

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juanalejo says on May 14, 2006, 09:45:

Big A You obviously have something against any body that you consider is not a normal type of people. The truth is, it is illegal to discriminate against them, you like it or not, and I am very glad it is that way.

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hisociedad says on May 14, 2006, 21:42:

es una cuestion por una parte algo que siempre se ha vivido en los paises subdesarrollados, la exclusión y el rechazo a lo que es diferente (gays, negros, indigenas, pobres, etc) ya que el desarrollo cultural e intelectual de estas sociedades no da para comprender dichos estados, sucesos o condiciones en el hombre y la mujer.


por otra parte la iglesia tiene mucho la culpa, puesto que en Colombia y paises semejantes la iglesia aun no hace una separacion del Estado, siendo este el problema y es bien sabido que politica y religion no van de la mano o se separan o una domina a la otra y en este pais se sabe cual domina.


En cuanto a la homosexualidad estamos en un pais subdesarrollado lleno de prejucios, doble moralistas. Un pais donde en el caso de Magali y Sandra pensar diferente o ser diferente es un delito penable.

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hisociedad says on May 14, 2006, 21:48:

Sandra al igual que Magali son seres humanos y como tal deben respetarse. En el caso de sandra ser mujer no es solo comportarse como mujer, ponerse falda y tacón, maquillarse o peinarse de manera sexy.

Colombia esta lleno de lesbianas y no precisamente con el caso particular de Sandra. Lesbianas que por tener ese porte femenino estan desapercibidas, son grandes ejecutivas, artistas, presentadoras de tv y hasta medicas. magali y sandra tienen derecho a llevar a cabo el trabajo escogido sin importar su tendencia sexual.

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hisociedad says on May 14, 2006, 21:53:

Discriminacion es lo unico que la gente sabe hacer, pura mojigatería. No a existido un curita gay ?

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 14, 2006, 22:26:

For Big A Big A wrote "This is a form of rape because the Transexuals take advantage of drunk men in clubs. They want everything a women has. U do not get any straigh transexuals... Because the transexual apears as a women and prefrences a straight man goes for in a women breats exectra. Not what a gay man would be looking for."

Clearly you've given a lot of thought to this subject...

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