Colombian Spanish

Miguel says on Dec 30, 2004, 09:16:

Good post Y interesante; pero Medellin; impotent o importante?

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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kernow62 says on Dec 30, 2004, 10:16:

Very informative post Carlos, thanks.

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cajeta says on Dec 30, 2004, 11:32:

Proper Spanish spoken I have heard that the best and proper Spanish in all of Central and South America is spoken in Colombia. It will be interesting to go there and listen to the Spanish spoken there. I do have some schooling on Spanish here in the US but of course it was such a long time ago and I do remember "vosotros". My boyfriend is from Bucaramanga and keeps on telling me -since its been a long time for him-that he forgets how formal they are there with thier Spanish. Of course, he is living in California and the Spanish is all screwed up here. Thanks for your informative lead.

La Brujita

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 30, 2004, 11:39:

los bumangueses think it's them who speak the best Spanish in the world:) I have a very good friend from B/manga and that's what he says...he even pronounces the double l as the Spaniards do just to prove his point. I think that they speak too loud.
Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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santiBOG says on Dec 30, 2004, 22:06:

Gracias Carlos I found your post very informative. We should take all necessary measures to protect the language from foreign distortions. We don't want to end up like Puerto Ricans or (Miami) Cubans and their unfortunate use of the Spanish language.

FYI... the capital is no longer called Santa Fe de Bogota. A few years ago Congress changed the name back to just Bogota.

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ElViajero says on Dec 31, 2004, 02:33:

Thanks Thank you Miguel: yes, I meant “Impressive”.

Cajeta, there is a friend of mine in Rome that prefers to say: it is not the best Spanish but the most carefully used… Anyway, when I listen some Spaniards from Madrid, I prefer your affirmation.

I am agree with you, Desideria, Colombians speak too loud… but no louder than other Spanish countries like Spain, for example.

Thank you SantiBOG… I really did not know that “new” change of the name of our Capital… I really did like “Santafé”…. Anyway, I hope it continues being the “Athens of South America”.

Carlos el Paisa Viajero

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 31, 2004, 09:07:

The Colombians, including my wife, are always babbling about how their Spanish is so much blah, blah, blah.... Does anyone who speaks English as their native language really care whether American English is better or "purer" than Canadian English or Irish English or Australian English. I seriously doubt it. We're pragmatists - the language is just a tool to communicate and whatever makes the tool better is what goes. Mongrels rule!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ColombianoX says on Dec 31, 2004, 12:38:

"The Colombians, including my wife, are always babbling about how their Spanish is so much blah, blah, blah.... Does anyone who speaks English as their native language really care whether American English is better or "purer" than Canadian English or Irish English or Australian English"

Utopia,

Your wife is absolutely right (you didn't think I was gonna disagree, did you, haha!) We colombians and most latin americans in general, are very proud of our language. Don't criticize that passion by comparing it to how proud or indifferent english-speakers are about their language.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 31, 2004, 14:26:

To me, this excessive pride in their language is characteristic of an attitude that is holding the whole place back. So you're speaking the language of Cervantes - well, yeah, you're living like him too. Do I want to live like Shakespeare? Hell, they were emptying their potties out the windows down onto the street! What seems to characterize English speaking people is pragmatism and while I don't think everyone should blindly emulate a particular culture, a more pragmatic attitude in Latin America would probably be a good thing on the whole. This difference is evident in me and my wife. I don't have any pride in my language - it's just a tool - this allowed me to learn to speak a passable Spanish in a year. My wife, with her pride in her Spanish, after more than a year still can't have even the most basic conversation in English. And she takes 16 hours of ESL classes every week!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on Dec 31, 2004, 18:43:

Are you sure it is pride that is holding her back? I don't think I have ever met anyone so proud in the way they speak Spanish than my father-in-law, he is in his late 60s. Yet he has managed to learn English quite well, his first year it wasn't great, but it eventually clicked. Give her a chance.

However now my father-in-law speaks English like in Shakespeare's day, he uses words that are correct English, but no longer used by the average person. Last week at Christmas he had the gall to correct my English!

He tried to tell me that one cannot say. "Bogotá is more cold than Orlando." He said that it can only be; "Bogotá is colder than Orlando."

I hope to learn Spanish well enogh to correct him one day. :-)

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Miguel says on Jan 1, 2005, 05:26:

And Your Father In Law was technically correct.

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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kernow62 says on Jan 1, 2005, 07:06:

Don't tell him that Miguel, I will never hear the end of it.

Is that strictly in the US? Where I learned to speak English that was common usage, I guess we were incorrect all along. There are some peculiarities to the English language regionally in the UK, that I never hear in the US. Celtic regions in particular tend to add Celtic grammar to English on occasion. I realise this is not correct grammar, but old habits die hard.

Perhaps you know the grammatical term for my error so that I can research it, and correct my ways.

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Miguel says on Jan 1, 2005, 07:24:

I did not say you errored He did. As far as using COLDER over MORE COLDER; it is a more efficient use of words; it is assumed that if X is COLDER than Y, then por supesto que si ya sabes that X is more colder than Y. Clear as mud.

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 1, 2005, 07:50:

:) all one- or two syllable adjectives form the comparative with -er and the superlative with -est. Thus, cold, colder coldest is the grammatically correct usage. Longer adjectives form the comparative with more placed before the adjective and the superlative with the most placed before the adjective. Example: intelligent, more intelligent, the most intelligent. At least thats how it used to be back when I learned my English. But everything changes...
Cheers,
Desi
(more colder is, of course, just wrong. It's a double comparative and redundant)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Sr Tertius says on Jan 1, 2005, 08:43:

Exactly! I think ElViajero's original post hits it right on the nail! Great post. Although I am a proud Colombian, I always had trouble telling my fellow Colombians that:

a. Unlike other South American capital cities, the main Colombian cities have a very short cosmopolitan tradition (the contrast was still evident during the 80s, when I moved from Lima to Bogota).

b. Colombian Spanish is not "the best" (whatever that is supposed to mean). It is usually the only one Colombians know.

I don't think there is nothing wrong with being proud of your language. A language is more than a tool, just like food is more than nutrients. The problem is getting chauvinistic and parochial about it.

And talking about food, let me throw here the third thing Colombians usually can't cope with:

c. Colombian food (and by this I mean mostly food from the interior, which I am most familiar with) is not great. Sorry, but it isn't. It's comfortable, homey, somewhat tasty, but not "great". It is simple and rather unsophisticated. I love a good cuchuco (http://www.colombia.com/autonoticias/gashum/DetalleNoticia45.asp), but it just doesn't compare to the best Mexican or Peruvian dishes.

On the positive side, Colombia's music and dance tradition is #1.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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ARMacleod says on Jan 1, 2005, 09:04:

The dreaded zzz Not very much to add here, there is one thing though, in my first attempts at Espaniol, it was of the type spoken in most of Spain.

The lisping ZZ/c etc almost put paid to further attempts after getting some admiring glances from some 'nice boys' in oxford, if you know what I mean.

Faith and inspiration returned when I discovered the Colombian variety.

Stay cool, be happy

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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santiBOG says on Jan 1, 2005, 14:41:

"Santafé" de Bogotá Just to reply to Carlos' post above regarding the city's name. The Peñalosa administration had Congress change it back to just Bogotá in 2001 because "Santafe" was seen perceived as a name reminiscent of the colonial era, whereas the word Bogota is autonomous, chibcha, 100% Colombian.

There was really no legitimate reason to put "Santafe" back in the name. This was done back in 1991 in the new Constitution. Fortunately, we got rid of it.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 1, 2005, 14:45:

what about Cali santiBOG? Is it still called Santiago de Cali or have they also dropped the Santiago part of it?
Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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kernow62 says on Jan 1, 2005, 16:12:

Thanks Desi, that makes a lot of sense.

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ColombianoX says on Jan 1, 2005, 20:52:

"Colombian Spanish is not "the best" (whatever that is supposed to mean). It is usually the only one Colombians know."

Sr Tertius,

I live in South Florida where there are many latin americans and many have told me that they also think the spanish spoken in Colombia sounds the best because of our enunciation and neutral accent. I don't know why any 'so-called colombian' would even dispute such compliments about our 'castellano'. As for the food, to me it's the best, of course! Mexican food only makes me run to the bathroom.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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santiBOG says on Jan 1, 2005, 21:24:

About Cali The city's full name is Santiago de Cali. Now, I am not sure about this, but it seems to me that when Bogota's name was changed to "Santafe de ..." in '91, other cities started using/adopting their colonial names as well. As far as I remember Cali used to be just "Cali" back in the '80s and '70s, but after the Santafe thing, I started hearing "Santiago de Cali", "San Juan de Pasto" and other ridiculous and unnecesary names. Enough of the long city names!!!!

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santiBOG says on Jan 1, 2005, 22:00:

Colombian Spanish Granted, the word "best" is difficult to apply to a country's way of speaking as compared to other countries. However, Colombians take pride in correct writing, usage AND pronunciation, devoid of any regional accents (this does not apply to paisas and costeños).

Wouldn't everyone agree that there are some better types of English too? For example, take northeastern-US vs rural-southern-US English, all would agree that southern people misuse the language, like when they use double negatives. So northeastern US English is better, more educated. It speaks well of the region and its people.

Now, bragging rights aside, what does speaking better Spanish accomplish for Colombia's economy? We can sell out TV shows more easily in other Latin American countries. What else? Probably nothing.

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Miguel says on Jan 1, 2005, 22:17:

Digame Que quieres decir " We can sell out TV shows more easily in other Latin American countries". No entiendo. As far as your statement about NE ingles y la gente del sur estados unidos...no soy de aquerdo contigo. Those New England accents are so stiff.

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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BxUnika says on Jan 1, 2005, 22:25:

Re: SantiBOG "Wouldn't everyone agree that there are some better types of English too? For example, take northeastern-US vs rural-southern-US English, all would agree that southern people misuse the language, like when they use double negatives. So northeastern US English is better, more educated. It speaks well of the region and its people."

That is a really, really broad generalization. Have you been watching too much TV? Not all southerners sound ignorant and speak improper. Some don't even have what you'd call a southern accent. On the other hand, have you have heard anyone poor/working-class from Boston, NE New Jersey, or parts of NYC speak? If that's good, proper English, I'll be damned. Some of the worst English you'll hear is right here in the Northeast and I'm a New Yorker. "Yous people", "Where he be at?", etc. That's bad English.

I think maybe you need to actually travel and spend time in the places you say such good English and such bad English is being spoken.

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santiBOG says on Jan 2, 2005, 08:06:

Miguel and BxUnika Our 'neutral' accent makes our TV shows more desirable in foreign (Central American, South American, Telemundo) markets.

As far as the accents... that's just my perception, but you could be right. Fact is everything is relative and maybe I don't know the U.S. accents as well as I should. You say the NE accents are 'stiff', maybe, and to costeños maybe the Bogota accent is too stiff too. All relative, but the point remains... I don't see shitloads of Argentinian or Peruvian soaps on Spanish-language TV in the U.S. Why? because their accents are heavy. As far as the Mexican shows... well, that's a different story (they own Univision).

Bx, maybe I am a victim of the media characterizations of southerners. But my point was that some ways of speaking a language are better (or more universal) than others. You have to agree with that! I did not mean to imply that people from certain regions are more or less educated than others.

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vladimiro says on Jan 2, 2005, 08:56:

The Colombian Accent Is Saught After I read in El Colombiano newspaper the other day about the growth of call center and help-desk business in Colombia. Businesses are using Colombia for thier spanish languange telephone support because listeners prefer the Colombian accent. CNN en Espanol recently hired a Colombian anchor woman and I've heard Colombians are often used to read the news.

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santiBOG says on Jan 2, 2005, 10:25:

I rest my case Thanks Valdimiro.

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ColombianoX says on Jan 2, 2005, 10:57:

"I read in El Colombiano newspaper the other day about the growth of call center and help-desk business in Colombia. Businesses are using Colombia for thier spanish languange telephone support because listeners prefer the Colombian accent. CNN en Espanol recently hired a Colombian anchor woman and I've heard Colombians are often used to read the news."


I couldn't agree more with Vladimiro! And speaking of the new CNN en Español anchor, Claudia Palacios, what a babe, she's gorgeous! Talk about an all-colomban beauty, I'm in love! Ok, now back to the topic, I've also read that colombian anchors are sought after by US spanish-language media because of their affable accent. You can see it's true, more and more colombian faces are popping up on Telemundo news programs all the time.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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lpdiver says on Jan 2, 2005, 15:08:

ESL classes Cowboy,
GEt your wife to get a job even if its part time. My wife laments the six dollars an hour she makes; but as I told her, look at it as though you are getting paid to go to English classes. Her standard scores went from 21 to 57 in three months.

She has learned that there is no pure English and is dealing with cajun, ebonics, redneck, and even Spanish. She loves her work and they treat her well.

I had two Japenese au-pairs to help me with my daughter while waiting for the two years it took me to get my paisa princessa here. they were both college graduates who had studied English for 12-16 years. They could read and comprehend well but could not commuticate orally.

Its like reading to learn how to swim. Sooner or later you gotta jump in and get wet.

Antony

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 2, 2005, 16:07:

De acuerdo, Antony!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ElViajero says on Jan 3, 2005, 04:26:

Well Utopiacowboy: “The Colombians, including my wife, are always babbling about how their Spanish is so much blah, blah, blah....”, well, that does demonstrate nothing in particular. In Malta, a country of 300 thousand persons, they say that Maltese is a great language (only they can speak that); in Cambodia a Buddhist monk said some years ago in a congress of that religion that Khmer language is the best and more beautiful language of the universe, so every sacred text –if it is really sacred- must be writing only in Khmer…
“Does anyone who speaks English as their native language really care whether American English is better or "purer" than Canadian English or Irish English or Australian English. I seriously doubt it.” Well, maybe in USA no, but in Ireland and England –at least the people I know- use to say that they speak a purest language than the American one (normally I am not agree with that). BBC for example takes a lot of care in the use of English… In Ireland they say that the English in Limerick City (South) is purest than the one of Dublin…
“We're pragmatists - the language is just a tool to communicate and whatever makes the tool better is what goes.” Who? Sr Tertius said: Colombians are pragmatists… I can demonstrate it (but it is other discussion). Languages do not communicate just words, but a culture and values… You can know the deep soul of a country just for the way its people use the language.
Then… Spanish is a Latin language. It belongs to a big Latin family with France, Portuguese, Italian, Rumanian and a numberless European dialects. Latin (a language not so dead) has a lot of to see with the ancient Greek and Greek has relations with Semitic and Easter languages that were spoken millenniums before. The proud of Colombians about their Spanish is not a Colombian characteristic but it is a Latin identity. That´s why Italians are proud of their Italian, Portugal of its Portuguese and so forth. For this reason –and it can be demonstrated-, Latin people (not only Latin Americans, but Latin Europeans as well) have a natural resistance to change the logic of a Latin language to a non-Latin language (English for example) Why? Because Latin people aren’t pragmatists???? Absolutely no… Latin is –like Greek- a humanist and philosophical language (that´s why I am here explaining all this to you… because I am a Latin), and for all these Latin languages the logic of ideas is very important thing. So when a Latino faces a non-Latin language, his/her natural philosophical chromosomes feel the same that the Romans felt before the primitive Germans. In stead, English has a long history of formation, you must know it.
Actually the idea that Colombian Spanish is the best of the world isn’t a Colombian idea. You can consult other non-Colombian sources. I gave reasons for it as well. It involves geographic and historical reasons. True, it is a particular Spanish and paradoxically there are a lot of Colombianismos, many of them included in the Real Academia de la Lengua Española.
El Viajero Paisa

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ElViajero says on Jan 3, 2005, 04:36:

Sure SantiBOG… We need to work hard in our national identity. Until now I am sure that our political and social problems came just from the time of the Colonial times and the way we have founded our Republic. Maybe names like “Santafé”, “Santiago”, “San Juan” are unnecessary, but I don’t think they’re ridiculous, because although we are Chibchas, Taironas, Paeces, Guajiros… we have Spaniards and Africans in our veins as well. I respect very much the decision to take off the name of “Santafe”, but I thought in it as a synthesis of our identity also…. But, anyway, I prefer the 100% Chibcha as you said.

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ElViajero says on Jan 3, 2005, 04:42:

Sorry, I cited Sr Tertius but the sentence does not appear in the body of the text. That is: "Sr Tertius said: A language is more than a tool, just like food is more than nutrients. So much agree...

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justino says on Jan 3, 2005, 14:03:

Lisping Spanish and paisa accents To set the record straight, JamesVH, Spain's castellano is not a lisp - no more than you saying the "th" sound in any English word constitutes a lisp. A lisp would be the production of a "th" sound when one should have produced the "s" sound. In Spain the rule is that the C and Z always sounds like a "th" instead of an "s" (except in cases when the C makes a "k" sound). There is regional variation especially in the south of Spain in Andalucia. Some people only make "s" sounds like in South America (this is called seseo). Others, mostly in Cadiz only make "th" sounds for everything (called ceceo). It sounds like a lisp when you think they're doing it on accident, but they're actually taught that that is the correct way to pronounce it and do so deliberately. That said, a person from Cadiz is probably not going to be good at making "s" sounds in any language.

As as side note I think the Colombian paisa accent is the cutest Spanish accent on the planet, though the Argentinian/Uruguayan accent might be the sexiest. Paisa female voices have this adorable quality to them... and everything's so "ay, que divino!". How can you not love it?

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 3, 2005, 14:39:

now we use smart, smarter, smartest ;-)

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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ARMacleod says on Jan 3, 2005, 15:07:

Re: 'The Lisp' I give my wholehearted thanks for your corrections. I do appreciate it.

When I started to learn the Castellano/Espanole, with my broad Scottish - Glaswegian natural accent I can assure you that it really sounded very odd to say the least.

I do love to hear the very cute sound of a slight lisp from the opposite sex but, I just cannot get my ear round it when it comes from Clint Eastwood/Bruce Willis types.

Thank you again. I did learn something though and that's always worthwhile


Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions. ¡El diablo me hizo lo hago! But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 3, 2005, 15:13:

You make some very interesting comments, ElViajero. You do get to the root of the problem. The Spanish speakers are so in love with their language as so much more than a tool, this love can prevent them from using other languages such as English to further their economic interests. My wife loves speaking Spanish and I really think this love of Spanish is much of what prevents her from practicing her English. She may end up a janitor the rest of her life as a result of this love. To most Americans, including myself, language is just a tool for communication and we go with whatever gets the job done. Hell, if we could make big bucks speaking Urdu, there'd be Urdu schools all over the place. What would actually happen is that English would adopt the Urdu words necessary as a matter of practicality. Is English a beautiful language? NO! But it's a beautiful tool and that's what makes it work. I love French and I would say that to me, it is the most beautiful language but I don't need it for anything so I dispense with it. I need to speak Spanish so I learn Spanish and speak Spanish to my wife. But if I don't need it, I will dispense with it just as I have dispensed with French. The language I use is not part of my identity.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juancegomez says on Jan 3, 2005, 15:14:

Colombian Spanish...hardly It's hard to speak of such a thing as a unified "Colombian Spanish" when we have so many regional accents and vocabulary differences inside our own country.

Granted, many educated Colombians tend to have a relatively neutral accent and use proper grammar (unless they are from regions where having an accent is a specific sign of identity), but many other citizens of different conditions don't (and please, try not to call me racist or classist because I'm trying to explain something that, while not exactly "good", can be confirmed easily enough by strolling through the streets of most Colombian cities and having a few live conversations).

Not even in the United States or even Spain itself will you find a true uniformity of language.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 3, 2005, 16:20:

and justino thank you for your informative and right on the money post. Couldn't have said that better myself:)
Only one minor correction, at this time: the accent of the caleños is far more appealing to the ear of a foreigner than that of paisas. (This is my personal opinion, of course, me being "the foreigner".)
Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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ColombianoX says on Jan 3, 2005, 18:43:

Sorry Desi, I LOVE Cali, but I must admit I don't like how caleñas sound too much, although the caleño men don't sound as bad. To me (also technically a foreigner) the paisa accent in a woman sounds much more attractive. I don't like that 'vos', 'mirá ve', and 'ois' that caleñas can't seem to exclude from their vocabulary, to me it sounds so unattractive. Like Justino said, that female paisa voice/accent is just so adorable.


Utopia,

"The language I use is not part of my identity"

Well, spanish to me is a fundamental part of my identity. It's the language I use to pray, to converse with my loved ones and the language I use when I make love. Although I'm completely bilingual, I feel my true personality manifests when I speak spanish. English to me is just a tool as you said, an essential tool for economcic advancement, for enjoying all those great Hollywood movies and sitcoms, and for defending Colombia of course.

ColombianoX

'Defensor del Castellano'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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juanalejo says on Jan 3, 2005, 19:48:

English accents If the accents are not important why is it that CNN international has British anchors instead of Americans? Or the Discovery Channel or for that matter most of the channels in my cable system here in Bogota? I´m just glad Sony Entertainment has not changed Friends for a British accent version.

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ElViajero says on Jan 4, 2005, 00:49:

Certainly, English speakers are from Mars, Spanish speakers are from Venus. But remember that Spanish speakers are the fastest growing population in the United States. Surely, there are a lot of Chinese and Vietnamese, but it is easier to get alone with Spanish than Mandarin. Spanish culture has a strong value of relationship. They are more conversational, with more greetings and background information, family is very important in any decision and so forth. It could be read as less pragmatic than English speakers. But it depends from which point of view we see pragmatism. USA is now the economical centre of the world, so, as a world ruler it imposed its natural language, just as Romans imposed Latin around the Mediterranean basin, Chinese Mandarin in Far East and Mahomet Arab in the Middle East. In that case pragmatism is that the others must learn the language of the actual ruler and not vice versa. You can be sure that most business men, industrials, scientist and intellectuals in Colombia can speak a very fluent English. But I am not sure that all these same ranks of persons in USA can speak Spanish (being it the second language of the world… and growing.) We all can be sure that your wife can start to use English perfectly and continuously if it is necessary. Until now no… knowing that she has the fortune to have a good husband that loves her Spanish. But I have known persons from English speakers countries, living in non-English countries for several years, that cannot use well the native language… just because the people speak to them in English… Asking a man from London why English speakers do a little effort to learn foreign language, he answered: practical… everyone is learning English… Sure, but just for economical proposals. Shakespeare would be worry about… his beautiful mother tongue been held as a simple tool for bank transactions. A very clever Arab young man, in an excellent English, told me some months ago in Jerusalem: I can speak English, but Americans cannot speak Arab… I know what they think because I know well what they say, in stead they know very little what I think because all I say they must translate. Many years ago a very important rector of an American university came to visit an important university in Colombia. The rector of the Colombian one lead the guess through the institute showing every thing, with the help of a translator. At the end the American gave thanks for all the kindness, but respectfully said: Only I want to ask you how it happens that a very clever and well prepare man like you cannot speak English… The other answered: I am very sorry for that, sure… but if you prefer we can speak in French, Italian, Greek, Latin or Hebrew. Sure, the Colombian one just could avoid this situation being more practical and taking some weeks to learn some English. I am agree with you: he wasn’t pragmatic.

I want to finish with a beautiful part of the poem of Shakespeare, The Passionate Pilgrim, and I ask someone to make it more pragmatic:

WHEN my love swears that she is made of truth,
I do believe her, though I know she lies,
That she might think me some untutor'd youth,
Unskilful in the world's false forgeries.
Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
Although I know my years be past the best,
I smiling credit her false-speaking tongue,
Outfacing faults in love with love's ill rest.
But wherefore says my love that she is young?
And wherefore say not I that I am old?
O, love's best habit is a soothing tongue,
And age, in love, loves not to have years told.
Therefore I'll lie with love, and love with me,
Since that our faults in love thus smother'd be.

Next I promise you a Colombian poem in English…

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 4, 2005, 07:50:

Great post, ElViajero.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ARMacleod says on Jan 4, 2005, 10:44:

Estupendo EIViajero
JamesVH

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Sr Tertius says on Jan 6, 2005, 17:35:

"inordinate self-love is the cause of every sin" "I live in South Florida where there are many latin americans and many have told me that they also think the spanish spoken in Colombia sounds the best because of our enunciation and neutral accent. I don't know why any 'so-called colombian' would even dispute such compliments about our 'castellano'"

Because this "so-called colombian" knows they are false. Admittedly, though, the things that are done with Spanish in So. Florida and LA are borderline criminal. Maybe it's just a contrast effect.

"Mexican food only makes me run to the bathroom."

You should quit Taco Bell.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Chevere33 says on Jan 10, 2005, 10:55:

tinto and other cositas (Colombian words) I loved reading your posts.

I don't know who the originator of this thread was, but I am assuming someone wanted to know about Colombian Spanish. It might be helpful to learn some of those words that aren't taught in the textbooks. For example, I was surprised to find that when I first arrived in Cali, asking for "un café" would get me a cup of coffee loaded with cream and sugar. If you want it black, ask for a "tinto".

Another thing that threw me off was the use of the diminutive. A girl asked me for an "espejito", and I didn't understand her. When I asked what it was and she said, "Un espejo pequeño", I blushed as I understood her. Even now, 20 years later, I still ask for "un aguita" when I want a drink.

I can't think of many words, but here are a few that I've found other Latin Americans don't necessarily use:
finca=farm
gafas=glasses
esmalte=fingernail polish (LOL--sure THAT'LL come in handy!!!)
plata=money
crespo=curly
pelado=guy

Waiting to see your lists,
Constancia

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Miamigo says on Jan 10, 2005, 11:45:

esfero = pen
mono = blondie guy
cola = line

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rash9000 says on Jan 10, 2005, 12:22:

un comentario paa miguel y para muchos otros spanish learners.. se dice: estoy de acuerdo
no se dice: soy de acuerdo
Soy se utiliza para algo referirse a un estado permanente de la persona, algo que en el futuro no va a cambiar, p ej
soy colombiano
soy blanco
soy hombre
por otro lado si quiere expresar algo que es temporal, utilicen entoces estoy, p ej
estoy en los estados unidos
estoy enojado
estoy feliz (tambien pueden decir Soy feliz, pero significa que ha sido feliz y seguira siendo feliz)

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 10, 2005, 16:31:

Constancia, how about monda, verga, chucha, colita, marica?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Chevere33 says on Jan 10, 2005, 18:43:

Utopia's words Um, er, those were words that I was actually trying to FORGET!!! Plus, I think other countries use m*r*ca, so you can scratch that one off your list. And what is a colita? A little line to wait in?

One more:
bolígrafo=pen

Constancia

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 10, 2005, 19:50:

Here they use joto instead of marica. I wasn't familiar with colita up until recently. Always used culo or trasero.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lionheart says on Jan 10, 2005, 19:57:

please add translations I am just learning ... I saw a few of these words, but couldn't find them in dictionaries ... I assume many aren't nice ... but how should I know?

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ReinaDeLa Baile says on Jan 10, 2005, 20:39:

oh where IS Elmo when we need him? Hang in there Lionheart. I am SURE that Elmo will be happy to help you out with some colorful definitions.

Ciaoito! -- la reina

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 01:11:

on my page:
http://home.arcor.de/umm_sg
you can find a colombian- spanish-english dictionary I have started. It has only about 600 entries yet but you can have an impression about the differences.
For my page you must have the flashplayer plugin.

UMM

My Forum

ElViajero says on Jan 11, 2005, 06:02:

Okay Constancia… you talk about Colombianismos… we have a lot of. But about Colombianismos it is good to know what they mean for a culture. Colombianismos are kind, romantic and tender. Of course, I am talking of good Colombianismos, because there are a lot of for insult somebody, for erotic and other functions. We Colombians are very creative in make Colombianismos. It is a reality from Leticia to San Andres. Colombians exaggerate so much in the language: I think around three billion times in proportion to any other Spanish speaker nation. The diminutives are a way to say indirectly that you are the most welcome. Inside a diminutive there is included a tender “I like you”. “¿Querés un cafecito?” has not meaning literally in English (“Do you want a “little” coffee), but the expression would mean something like “I really like you and I would like to share with you, so let me invite you to a coffee”. I have a friend from Barcelona that a day decide to walk some kilometers from a spot until Tunja and, finding a farmer (boyaco), asked him “¿Disculpe señor, queda muy lejos la ciudad de Tunja?” , the gentle farmer (as the good boyacos are) answered: “AQUICITO NO MÁS”. Hey, try to translate it literary in English: “Just little here”, so “just here”… Horror!!! An adverb in diminutive… technically impossible. But the man from Barcelona was so admire of that and understood well that included in the correct information, the farmer said also with the diminutive form that “you are the most welcome”.

Colombians ask in the morning “¿Cómo amaneció”? Being so much Colombian I asked this to a friend from Republica Dominicana (a Spanish speaker country) and he answered rudely “En la cama”! (On the bed). You can be sure that Colombians are not asking in which position you were sleeping, but it is the best way to say “Good morning, did you sleep well?”.

Other day I have met a friend, a lady from Argentina and I asked as a Colombian “¿Qué has hecho?”… “What have you done?”… the gentle lady, not to be rude with me, started to describe me in general words the activities she has done the day before… until I realized that she did not understand that I have used a Colombian greeting. I explained her I wasn’t asking information of her activities, but just a “How do you do?” that is for us an informal way.

Foods can change name just from a region to another: ask in Colombia what is “perico”… in Medellin a little coffee with milk; in Bogota an egg… it is also a knife for thieves… and drug…

“Gamin” is a street boy… a word that was taken from French when some NGOs of that country came to help street children in the big cities some decades ago… for some people can be pejorative, for other no and you can find jeans with that name “gamin” meaning youthful… If a person is bad clothed Colombians can say “¡Qué gamín!”, but boys and girls can give that world a meaning of modern and informal “me gusta verme todo gamin”.

In the North of Colombia (Costa Atlantica) ladies can be turned young: “Hable con la NIÑA MARÍA ROSA” … “talk with the girl Maria Rosa”… that doesn’t mean that Maria Rosa would be a girl but a woman, near to our affection… could be the teacher or a relative or a good loved friend. In stead in the entire Colombia Republic in the popular langue a “VIEJA” is a very beautiful and cute girl. “I like Colombia very much – said a German – because here the elderly is seen young and young elder…”

Colombians use a lot of “usted” with new acquaintances… Even if you are referring younger people to you, the first is to refer as “usted”, formal (though it is changing with the new generations… but Colombians from Bogota, Boyaca… can be more conservative in this sense). After a good familiarity you can use “tu” or “vos” if you are in the West part of the Colombian Andes.

“Chino” does not mean in Colombia necessary a person from China, but a boy, especially in Bogota and Boyaca where the word is use with tenderness for the children “¡Cómo es de bello mi chino!” that you can make more tender if you make a diminutive of this word, “chinito”. A missioner sister from Bogota working in a school of Cambodia, in Southeast Asia, said about the girls of the school: “Estas chinitas son muy juiciosas”… the problem was to get if she was calling them “chinitas” because they are Chinese people, or “chinitas” because they are girls… as a Colombian I can guess: because they are girls, beside her rollo accent. In other regions like Antioquia “chino” can be pejorative to a young boy.

“Pollo” of course means in Colombia chicken, from Leticia to San Andres, from Ipiales to Maicao… But it can mean in other context “young person”. “Estás muy pollo”… “You are so young”… well, in Spain you know the meaning of “polla”, besides “female chicken” is also the male reproductive organ… so a Colombian young man from Bogota in Malta met a young woman from Madrid and asked her how old (bad question for a woman)… I am 19 y.o. “Nooo, pero si usted está es muy polla”….

Bien… I think it is enough for today. I hope it could be useful for friend foreigners visiting our paisito… take care with the chinos… think twice which kind of perico you want… admire with respect the viejas and, if you are thinking to ask the hand of any good vieja, talk first with the niña María… Vistase bien gamin and maybe you are going to have a lot of young acquaintances… but take car from any gamin in the street, ellos son muy vivos… if you want to know more about Colombianismos, write to me AQUICITO NO MAS… and start with a gentle “usted” and vos vas a recibir a gentle tu…

El Viajero Paisa, su merced….

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 06:12:

Chevere33, in Colombia they actually dont say boligrafo....
they rather say esfero = pen

UMM

My Forum

utopiacowboy says on Jan 11, 2005, 06:39:

Good post, dude. My wife loves diminutives - she puts ita or ito on everything! “¿Cómo amaneció”? and “¿Qué has hecho?” are two of her favorites. When she first asked me “¿Cómo amaneció”? one morning, I was really puzzled until she explained what it meant.

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 06:44:

I am sure when they came to you and said "Q'hubo hermano".

UMM

My Forum

Miamigo says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:04:

I can't even hear the "hubo" part of "Q'hubo" anymore. Sounds like just plain "Q" to my ears. Or maybe it is now, I don't know, that's what I say and nobody says anything.

I believe "que mas" is peculiar to Colombia as a greeting to ask someone how they're doing.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:07:

I don't think so, they say "Que mas?" here in San Antonio as a greeting.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Miamigo says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:22:

Those damned Mexicans again. We don't have too many of them here. The Cubans don't use "que mas."

Speaking of Mexicans, try using "cola" as in "line" with them and see the look you get.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 11, 2005, 10:28:

very good elviajeropaisa. In Cali they say "como 'maneció?" meaning how are you this morning, "saludes" for greetings, "pelado/a, "sardino/a" for pre-teens,"q'iubo" for how are you besides "que mas", "que ha hecho" or q'tal?" And they do say "boligrafo" for pen, at least in Cali, also "lapicero". I never head "esfero" used in that sense, only as "esferico" referring to the football (soccer ball).
There's plenty more Colombianismos and they also deiffer from one region to another.

Saludes,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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ColombianoX says on Jan 11, 2005, 10:52:

"Esfero" is what bogotanos call a pen. I call it a "lapicero".


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Chevere33 says on Jan 11, 2005, 16:43:

Thanks, ElViajero . . . for bringing back some memories. I especially enjoyed your DR buddy's response to "Como amaneciste?"


Constancia

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Chevere33 says on Jan 11, 2005, 16:50:

boligrafo, umm Me parece el colmo, ummm . ... en Cali si se usa "bolígrafo" y nunca esfero, at least not for a pen. In school, must've heard my compañeros ask for a bolígrafo hundreds of times! Desi must be from Cali---read her post, too.

I also remembered another one:
"culicagao" (smile---no D in sight!)
Um, how would you translate that? LOL. Same as sardinito. It's a young person (literally sh*tty*ssed, I'd guess.)

Constancia

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 17:33:

"en Cali si se usa "bolígrafo"",¿¿¿El colmo???? ¿como aí? there are not a lot of real pull pens around, most are ballpens and also in Cali they say "esfero" or in Santa Marta they say "efero" some also say "pluma"
The official word "bolígrafo" is mainy used throughout Spain.

How would you translate "buñuelo" thats also not always something to eat.

UMM

My Forum

Spanish in Barranquilla says on Sep 7, 2005, 13:46:

Learn Spanish at Universidad del Norte, Barranquilla Tha Universidad del Norte in Barranquilla offers a Spanish Program from February 6 to 24, it ends just before Carnivals so you can enjoy this time of the year in Barranquilla.

We can help you find a host family, apartment or hotel.

Classes will be held from 8:30 to 1:30 p.m. from Mondays to Fridays

For more information.

iidiomas at uninorte.edu.co
www.uninorte.edu.co/extensiones/idiomas

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soccerstud says on Sep 8, 2005, 13:21:

i find it to be funny that most americans take their language for granted and don't take the time to learn it correctly. i am a native spanish speaker and english is my second language yet i can spell better than most my friends and i have better grammar.

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colombit says on Sep 12, 2005, 18:18:

hi! Lol
Verga=dick
chucha=pussy in the coast, chucha in bogota means bad other under ur amrs
monda=dick but only in the coast
marica=gay, but you can use with friends of same sex, as hola marica, como estas? means hi guy how u doing?
colita=ass but little ass, you can say this: me gusta tu colita, o que colita tan buena.

Im colombian from the coast, but i live in bogota. Spanish is so beutiful language, and my comment is this, english could have a billion words more than spanish, but the way and richness of how you speak spanish cannot be compared, spanish is so powerful in meaning than english, German is worst that english to express ideas, for example spanish has 17 times setences while german just 10, and our words are richer. Good look! bye.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 12, 2005, 19:31:

Say what you like, French is far more beautiful than English or Spanish. I wish we were all speaking French instead of Spanish.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 12, 2005, 19:31:

Say what you like, French is far more beautiful than English or Spanish. I wish we were all speaking French instead of Spanish.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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LG1234 says on Oct 1, 2005, 22:27:

I think we do speak a very good Spanish..just listening to our Grandparents and you can find long lost words being used. This is all being lost and it's a shame..It's being lost because now we have a mass media that supports and encourages talking slang "Pa'" and other words like "chibchombia" and "Locombia" this is all extremely mediocre and a folkloric way of speaking that comes from the lowest scum of the pueblos of Colombia..this is now introduced to people in Cities..I am totally against it and consider it a bad words.

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LG1234 says on Oct 1, 2005, 22:30:

Websites like Locombia..instead of incouraging good language, good manners and good things they are encouraging the use of slang used by drug dealers and assasins.

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Rubiazo says on Oct 1, 2005, 23:38:

Lapicero= PENCIL or 'Lapiz'
Colombians say 'esfero' but understand 'boligrafo'.
I have been told the worst words you can say in Colombia are 'gonorrhea' and 'pichurria'. Pichurria is gross just thinking about it. Imagine Niagra falls coming out of your ass. That is pichurria.
'Plata' is money no matter where you are from in the Spanish speaking diaspora.
A 'culicagao' is a kid. As in 'ya soy adulto, no soy ningun culicagao.' THAT is VERY Colombian. I have never heard that anywhere else. The idea is that kids dont know how to wipe their asses properly.

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Rubiazo says on Oct 1, 2005, 23:42:

Verga=dick ANYBODY anywhere they speak Spanish would understand that.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2005, 01:35:

rubiazo, in Cali lapiz=pencil, lapicero=pen. (Bolígrafo is also used as a synonym to lapicero). Pichurria is not diarrhea in Cali at least, but means "a very small amount".

Somebody asked about "buñuelo" when it's not something yo eat. In Cali you call somebody "buñuelo" meaning newbie, beginner, clumsy, unskilled.

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2005, 04:05:

utopiacowboy says on Oct 2, 2005, 10:01:

Not quite Rubiazo. My wife uses the word plata and the Mexicans and Texans who speak Spanish all think it's odd. They understand what she means but they use the word dinero themselves.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on Oct 2, 2005, 14:39:

Desi, lapicero is also used in Bogotá and means pen, but not used as often as esfero; boligrafo is also used.

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Rubiazo says on Oct 2, 2005, 19:49:

Plata is widely used here in NYC by all kinds of spics. :) Some more Caribbean terms for money are, chavos, cuartos, billetes, etc.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 3, 2005, 09:41:

You could be on to something there. Maybe it's just not a Mexican thing. I'll ask my wife about those other terms.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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BrujoMontez says on Feb 17, 2006, 07:57:

Ave Maria Purisima.. lol...Paisas are responsible for that one. Colombia is full of slangs, Ironic since we are considered to speak the best spanish. But it's true. We love using slang, even if we are also well eduated in our language. maybe its the lack of social stigma and the underlying confidence in our gramatical abilities that let's us be free to use slang terms without that implying we are uneducated. Kind of like in America, although I think Colombians are better educated inour language than americans are.
International Media organizations seek and hire Colombians to be News Anchors, Actors and spokesmen. From Mexico to Spain, colombians are deployed because of our educatation and speech, yet we don't come accross as restricted and conservative, It just flows. Colombian Spanish (minus Costenos) could be described as well-pronounced, moderate, freely flowing, modernized, educated yet full of local expressions and slang that we are not embarassed to use even among professionals. But the Origin of Colombian spanish is highly derived from 16th century northern spanish. From this however we have evolved in a very American way, incorporating more modern words. Our comparatively liberal society allows us to be educated yet use our language creatively.

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Colombiche says on Feb 17, 2006, 08:45:

I also read an article About how some US companies are opening up the Spanish language call centres in Bogota, because Bogota Spanish is so clear and the accent is rather neutral.

I also knew of a Spanish language school in Toronto, that was seeking Colombians, because they wanted somebody whose grammar and pronunciation was clear.

Even in Spain, my tour guide told me that Colombian Spanish is cleaner than what is currently spoken in most regions in Spain.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 17, 2006, 09:00:

How strange...... I just read the opening post of this thread and I thought...how interesting. I scrolled down a bit only to see Cx's post and I thought, well how about that? Cx is back. Then I saw the dates. Oh well.

Anyway, when people listen to my Spanish, they have no idea where I am from. I hate to say it, being a person who came from Colombia (although I was almost a toddler I think) I really don't speak with much of a Colombian accent. I have a combination of costeno (because of my ex Dominicana girlfriend, Mexican, and Colombian accent. Can any of you guys imagine what that may sound like? Really, the Colombian part gets lost, but for the fact that I use Colombian vocabulary that Mexicans or Dominicans never use. People in Mexico ask me where I am from. People in Colombia ask me where I am from. I have never been to the Dominican Republic so....who knows. Once in a while, a Mexican here in Chicago will ask me if I am Colombian. So the Colombian part must come through some how....

One thing is for sure. I don't speak Spanish like a Gringo.....thank God for that !!! Sorry Gringos.....

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Monpirri says on Feb 17, 2006, 14:38:

Colombians are known for speaking great Spanish and spaniard journalists always affirmed to that fact.
but the mexican tv and film industry does not want Colombian spanish to excel, why?

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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BrujoMontez says on Feb 17, 2006, 15:06:

Maybe.. Because they don't want to help thecolombian market open up, since they already have a monopoly on Spanish media, all moviesare dubbed in Mexican spanish, this is because of its proximity and working relationship with the U.S. and also the number of Mexicans in the U.S. They recognize that Colombians are better prepared or well suited for the industry so it threatens them. All that being said, they still hire Colombians for actors, spokemen and so on..They can't help it, lol.

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Colombiche says on Feb 17, 2006, 15:14:

Monpirri I don't know, but it could be because Mexican novelas cater mostly to Mexican Americans? Either way, I hate to watch Varoni saying "Hijole".

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Monpirri says on Feb 17, 2006, 15:44:

BrujoMontez and Colombiche! I agree with both of you.
And they are imposing colombian (in amicable way) actors to speak with mexican accents in their projects/productions, to make the matter worse!!

“Houston we got problems,” I would say.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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BxUnika says on Feb 17, 2006, 18:10:

"Marica" "Um, er, those were words that I was actually trying to FORGET!!! Plus, I think other countries use m*r*ca, so you can scratch that one off your list."

Ys...but they use it a bit differently. It doesn't necessarily mean "gay" or "queer" like it does in other places. It's almost a term of endearment. Some people use it really frequently and it can mean something similar to "parce" or soething of that nature.

My roommates are dos rolitos, a paisa, and a bumenguese. The paisa is all "Oye,¿como te fue, parce? Aaaah, bien, parce. Pues, decíme, parce...". The bumenguese and the rolita are all,"Uyyy, marica! ¿En seeeerio? No jodas, marica!" I think you get the picture. my boyfriend, a rolito, is not like nay of the above. He is not big on modismos or slang.

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Joaquin Sabio says on Oct 22, 2006, 18:35:

Pure English? Pure Spanish? I am sure the Colombians feel their dialect is the best, the purest, etc. I am prejudiced, however, as my wife too, is from Bogota. I learned Spanish mainly from Mexico and she is always correcting me. I explained that there really isn't one dialect that is better than the other...only different. Good Grief, look at the English of East London! I tend to think that the British English is heading in an all new evolutionary direction. . as is American English. But, on the other hand, so are most of the dialects of Spanish in whatever country. . .
.... so. . . where is this argument going??

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goin_south says on Oct 22, 2006, 18:59:

Hence, my new signature: "No hay tal cosa, como ' español perfecto '." __Senora Alta Vista

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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goin_south says on Oct 22, 2006, 19:00:

Hence, my new signature: But, still a very interesting read and more to learn about the cultures through the language, by this person living in the Mideast, but who grew up on Medellin.

"No hay tal cosa, como ' español perfecto '." __Senora Alta Vista

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 22, 2006, 19:32:

Plato says on Oct 22, 2006, 20:03:

What an excellent thread brought to the front of this forum from almost two years ago. Thank you all.

By the way, Americans (estadounidenses) have the accent, not the English. That goes for the other English speaking countries that were former colonies.

I'll say this about Colombian Spanish - it's one of the clearest sounding - so I've been told.

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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goin_south says on Oct 22, 2006, 21:13:

I have a little mexican friend here where I live and, I have asked her to talk to my novia in Colombia on an occasion or two on my telephone, to say some things about where we live, and opportunity here, and about the visas, and I have listened in, and they seem to communicate in spanish, as if they were from the same place and speak same dialect, without hesitation. I don't remember any questioning about what the other was saying. For the entire conversation, you could have sworn they were sisters. Imagine that.

"No hay tal cosa, como ' español perfecto '." __Senora Alta Vista

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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Qubo says on Oct 23, 2006, 08:23:

I think it all boils down to education. No matter what language a person speaks if he/she has a sound education they are most likely to speak clearer than a non-educated person. From my contacts with colombians from different regions I have to say that I have met many couldn't speak neutral spanish and nothing but pura jergas. Now I am fluent in spanish but it's hard to understand some regional slang. One thing I can say is that many colombians are into preserving spanish.

Galecito, I don't think a colombian would have any problem speaking to spanish with a mexican if both are not using to much slang. I have no problem speaking with a portuguese from portugal nor do I have problem speaking english with a Brit. As someone mentioned b4 a language is used to communicate. The beauty of languages are they evolve. Look at what we brasilians have done to portuguese.

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 23, 2006, 11:12:

Plato says on Oct 23, 2006, 12:42:

Language is not just a means for communication. It’s an essential part of one’s culture as well, in addition to food, music, dance, art, literature, and religion.

Some languages are better suited for expressing human desire. Romance languages do this well. Other languages are much better suited to express precise thoughts such as the German and English. Notice that some here said they study and speak English because it is a language of business. Still, some languages are better suited for expressing abstract concepts such as Greek. I always thought East Asian languages such as Chinese, etc., equipped the speaker with a better ability to understand mathematical characters.

A person’s native language tells a lot about the person who speaks it. Why is there such a difference between Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans? The reason is because the language is linked to their culture and expresses who they are.

As far as Spanish is concerned, notice that any diplomat, head of state (except maybe Mr. Hugo Chavez), or top journalist, speaks the language without regionalisms. They speak as plain vanilla as they can. So, it is indeed a mark of an educated person to speak grammatically correct and without regionalisms. Spanish, and for that matter any other language, becomes truly universal among its speakers. However, this comes at the cost of suppressing one’s individuality.

Recently I found out that Dan Rather was a Texan and he suppressed his Texan accent pretty well until recently before he retired.


Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Qubo says on Oct 23, 2006, 13:46:

Plato I like your post but Plato I agree that a persons native language is part of their culture. That's why a language evolves. Los Costeños speak spanish with their culture added into the flavor just like Caleños, Paisas, and Bogotanos. I believe a language should be allowed to evolve as long as the grammatical structure is still followed. One can't say that Colombians speak the best spanish but I admit that some regions speak very clear. Again, education plays an important role in how a person speaks. Too me spanish is the easiest romance language to learn because it is phonetic. It really is pronounced the way it appears.

Regarding supressing a persons individually, I have to agree with you 100% but as government leaders,journalist, presidents one must learn to cross all social barriers. I don't think anyone would take Pres. Uribe seriously if he would get ont he podium saying "Quihubo parce, E'toy cansao con esa vaina". In my opinion, everytime I hear pres. Bush speaks I have to turn off the TV. Every time he speaks his ignorance of the world and annoying southern accent doesn't convince me. Ok, I'm getting off the subject but I hope you get the drift. I hope I didn't offend none of y'all southerners on this forum, Y'all hear:)

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Colombiche says on Oct 23, 2006, 14:35:

Qubo I can picture Uribe saying "Que hubo puesh mijos, no que jartera esta peliadera de estos jediondos".

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Plato says on Oct 23, 2006, 15:18:

Qubo and Colombiche Nice posts. You certainly make the point.

About Dubya: he does use regionalisms. In fact, his English is one of the worse I've heard for a head of state. There are millions of jokes about it. This is what his English says about him, "I'm Texas!"

We should make a distinction between accent and regionalisms. Standard Spanish, or any other language, should not include regionalisms in public speaking. As long as one is grammatically correct, and enunciates properly, accents are o.k.

One last thing. The reason why Colombian Spanish has high regard (o.k., let's not say it's the best) is because it has the least interference from other foreign words, enunciation, etc. In other words, it's sounds closest to the Spanish core (if that means anything). Of course, it depends on what region one is from in Colombia.

I also heard that Spanish in Latin America is "español" while in Spain it's "castellano". The reason for español is because of all the additional foreign words from the indigenous populations made its way into the Spanish language. What's your opinion on this? Is this true?

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 23, 2006, 15:21:

You make it sound like all Texans are uneducated bumpkins who can't speak properly. Have you ever been to Texas?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Plato says on Oct 23, 2006, 15:24:

No offense intended Utopiacowboy - at all! I like Texans and the Texan spirit very much. Dubya, however, does make some serious mistakes in his speeches. How about Ross Perot? Did you ever hear him?

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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goin_south says on Oct 23, 2006, 16:47:

Making the points, as you guys are, People who were born and raised in the countryside or the hills of Texas have a most definite twang or draw, draugh...not sure how you spell that, but it is distinct; you can't mistake it for anywhere else; nothing to do with education. Although higher education might put a little cosmo flare on that draugh.

This is one of the better threads throughout PBH, I think, because is breaking down some generalities, in very nice manner, and with good introspection by the likes of Plato, Adrimm, and the OP.

"No hay tal cosa, como ' español perfecto '." __Senora Alta Vista

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 23, 2006, 17:43:

What can we say about W? After all, he is a Yale man.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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goin_south says on Oct 23, 2006, 18:05:

I think first and foremost he is an oilman. And, that is why we are now firmly embedded in Iraq. I hope the next presidential election has alternative energy as a primary focus. Then, I think we won't have to be hunting down oil all over the world, and Chavez won't continuously be having a stroke for fear we are heading south, next.

"No hay tal cosa, como ' español perfecto '." __Senora Alta Vista

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 23, 2006, 21:09:

I'd like to see oil in so little demand that Chavez has to eat it for breakfast. We're funding these tinhorn dictators and Middle Eastern facists like the Saudis. The Nov elections are our chance to strike a blow for freedom.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Qubo says on Oct 24, 2006, 06:42:

"Plato stated:I also heard that Spanish in Latin America is "español" while in Spain it's "castellano". The reason for español is because of all the additional foreign words from the indigenous populations made its way into the Spanish language. What's your opinion on this? Is this true?"

Well, in the americas "los hispanohablantes" speak español. I'm not quite sure if it's because of indigenous and african population adding their own spice into the language. But my educational guess would be because it was enforced by the spanish conquerors, thus ellos son españoles. Many hispanics aren't aware that there are other languages in Spain such as Gallego, Catalan, Valenciano that are official languages in each respective region. The Spanish speaks "castellano" because it comes from the Castilia region. In the americas all of the spanish speaking countries speak a form of castellano without distinguishing the z,c,s nor do hispanics use vosotros. You may sometime hear hispanics claiming they speak castellano just to sound upper class but in reality they usually have an inferior complex because in their mind their spanish is not good enough.

This is my outlook on this. Colombians speak a very courteous spanish. example: "a la orden". "el nombre de Dios" when calling someone. It sounds very formal. Maybe this is due to the Viceroys have a strong hold in Colombia and the mass had to speak to them with respect...je ne sais pas.. On the other hand I've met colombians who speak with so much slang that I dont have a clue to what they are exactly trying to say. The key to any language is to know when to speak neutral or not. Especially, if one is conversating with another national.

I have met a few texans who are intelligible but this president puts us to shame internationally. Every time he opens his mouth nothing ever make sense.

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Plato says on Oct 24, 2006, 06:58:

Thank you Qubo.I forgot to Thank you Qubo.

I forgot to mention that “español” denotes the “language of the Spanish conquerors” and so the term stuck. Castelleno was the language of the Spanish monarchy who financed the expeditions to the New World. But castellano per se doesn’t include all the additional terms from the indigenous and African populations.

In Colombia, and in South America in general, how do the schools refer to the language? Español or castellano?

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Qubo says on Oct 24, 2006, 07:29:

Plato,
To be honest I don't Plato,

To be honest I don't have a precise answer to your question but I think most use the term español although I know that many Argentineans say they speak "castellano". Again, saying one speaks "castellano" gives the grandeur effect which to me is due to many hispanics obsession with Spain although the spaniards do not view the hispanics claiming ancestry as lost descendants...Only a tiny population in Latin America can claim that to be direct descendants of spaniards.

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galileo says on Jun 13, 2009, 16:25:

Ok...this is all great stuff, but as a native English speaker who resides in the USA, I have to clarify some things: firstly, many English speakers (myself included) are concerned about whose accent and pronounciation is better within English. Secondly, English IS a beautiful and complex language, even if many who speak it in the USA do not feel proud to be English speakers. Thirdly, even though there are many folks here in NY and New England who speak improper English, or Ebonics, in general, the accent and dialect of southerners is looked down upon as ill-educated and poor in sentence structure and syntax in relation to the northerners.

AA

“The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath.” W. C. Fields

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