Colombian salaries...

platano says on Jun 28, 2006, 07:13:

I worked with a multi- IT manager who was getting.... 6 million pesos a month plus benefits. Most national salaries would probably be less than that.plátano

plátano

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Miguel says on Jun 28, 2006, 08:57:

A first year doctor I know Made 1k a month in 2004, so at today's peso evaluation, she would make 2.6 million. She is bilingual and US educated. Another friend of mine is a noted biology professor and a zoologist that pulls down half of that.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 28, 2006, 09:41:

When she left Coltejer in March, 2003, my wife made about 1.7 million pesos a month. A chemical engineer, she supervised 90 people in the company's Itaqui plant.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Colombiche says on Jun 28, 2006, 09:44:

The best offers I have seen for a system analyst in Bogota are 2 mill and a half.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Miguel says on Jun 28, 2006, 10:04:

Thanks CB y UC Always nice to get "trusted" input.

Both of you are valued PBH'ers.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 28, 2006, 10:08:

One thing to remember Take those monthly salaries and multiply them by 13 months to account for a half month "bonus" in June and another half month in December. I *think* this is a standard pay practice for a lot of salaried professionals.

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megustamuchisimo says on Jun 28, 2006, 10:08:

My maid makes 20,000 per day. My hairdresser gets about $800,000 a month.

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Sr Tertius says on Jun 28, 2006, 10:16:

Factoring by inflation, things don't look too good In 2000 I was pocketing 1.8 million/month as jr project manager in a national marketing research firm, on the 13 month scheme mentioned by Tinto, plus cesantias (peso-by-peso match). The jobs mentioned above sound far more qualified, and paying about the same or a bit more. Considering 6 years of (yes, relatively low) inflation, the labor market doesn't look to good from the employee's perspective. I've been hearing many complaints about this. My sister-in-law is an MD an can barely get "chichiguas" for her job. In her case, that's Ley 100. Salaries for health professionals are really bad in Colombia, compared to other places.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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billyb says on Jun 28, 2006, 10:41:

I'm somewhat surprised.. even factoring in the lower cost of living in Colombia, the high level of comfort (material) that proffesionals seem to enjoy there, led me to expect slightly higher salaries that being posted so far. Anybody else surprised?

BillyB

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Crazy4Cali says on Jun 28, 2006, 11:22:

Nope. That sounds about right from what I've heard. Colombians seem to dress like they make more money, but don't judge a salary by it's cover. In contrast, I work in hi-tech in the U.S. where the millionaires dress like they shop at k-mart. Of course their cars are top-dollar...

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 28, 2006, 11:52:

I'm not surprised That's life in the big city.

Is it any wonder that Colombian professionals surving on less than $1K a month want to come to America? Meanwhile, we take a vacation from our US $5K/month jobs and have a blast in Colombia.

No wonder: imagine living even in San Francisco and pulling down $25K a month! You'd be singing the praises of the US far and wide: "I love this place! California chicks are babes, and they dig me!"

Not to discount the beauty of Colombia, but almost ANYPLACE is great fun when you're rich.

Wasteland

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 28, 2006, 15:44:

Tinto is correct. She did get the bonus twice a year as well as paid health insurance and other benefits.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Jun 28, 2006, 16:13:

Salaries Tinto: The law states 13 months a year, the standard practice is actually 14 months. Most places will pay 1 whole month in June and same in December.

Don Gringo: My experience with salaries for Multinationals or Large Companies is a little higher than that. A VP for one of these companies is rating around 20+ million, a division manager between 10-15 million.

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Crazy4Cali says on Jun 28, 2006, 21:35:

The mother lode... The mother lode, of course, would be to collect your American salary while living in Colombia.

I'm still working on that plan :)

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jordanxxx says on Jun 28, 2006, 22:28:

Canada I work Tech Support here, and make 5,280,000.00 COP a month.

I guess it's not too bad..

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 29, 2006, 08:33:

"They wouldn't take a residency visa to the US if it was free" Ya. Right. Go visit the consular section of the embassy, and check out how many middle class Colombians are camped on the floor waiting for an interview.

You're fooling yourself.

Wasteland

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billyb says on Jun 29, 2006, 08:41:

Wasteland.... you're both correct. There's ton of people perfectly happy to stay in Colombia and there's a ton of peolple who would give their right nut for a visa to the US.

BillyB

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SirTropical says on Jun 29, 2006, 10:43:

agree with dongringo I have seen the same phenomena either in colombia or abroad.... colombians once manage to reach certain jobs and salaries won't move out, as a matter of fact they have tried already.. the reason why it's that most probably they can make in US or CANADA something around 2k a month (4 mill+COP) but they won't be able to have the same lifestyle that they would in Colombia whit just 2.5 or more COP !!!

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 11:58:

Social contract 13 months salary per year is by federal law, along with 4 weeks paid vacation on top of that.

And from my personal experience 2 million a month in Bogota would almost be hard to spend, unless you had a big family with multiple kids going to expensive private institutions etc.

Pay in Bogota depends a LOT on the field. There are engineers making an easy 4 million a month there and then there are engineers who are working their asses off for the minimum. We have the same phenomenon in Canada/US but the effects are rather less severe up here. Some positions can have dozens of applicants for one opening. On the other hand, if you go into a demand area, you will work right out of university.

Wasteland, anybody in Bogota making a nice steady 2 million or more a month on the social contract would be absolutely fucking CRAZY to come up to the US and start all over. I would pick Bogota at 2 million a month over NYC at $150k a year!

Somebody working their asses off for the minimum would probably be better up here, but they ain't getting in that easily, and if they do they will be illegals and will never be able to get any traction here anyways. Plus if they get sick they're fucked, whereas at least in Colombia 12k out of their 415k gets them comprehensive health insurance!

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 11:59:

I've often wondered just what the median salary is in Bogota. I would guesstimate around 1 million or so.

In NYC the median salary is 37k and change, which really sucks when you consider how heavy a tax burden is on that 37k, and how expensive everything is getting now.

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 29, 2006, 14:04:

Wow. All I can say is that you guys seem a little mathematically challenged. I guess the topic has been debated endlessly. Those of us who have lived there will simply know from experience what is reasonable and what isn't.

Rubi - I know you've lived in both places - so I'm at a loss to understand how you believe that $762 a month in Bogota goes further than $12,500 a month in New York. I know Bogota is a lot cheaper: but that's a little extreme. To each his own, I guess.

To those of you guys engaged in a little romanticism... I'd just point out that Colombians can't freely travel to the US. The huge demand you SEE at the embassy is merely the tip of the iceberg.

I understand that you are trying to debunk a stereotype, but you picked a bad one to debunk. Immigration trends would suggest that you are talking more about your own feelings than the average Colombian's.

Wasteland

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Atrevido says on Jun 29, 2006, 17:21:

This site has many professions and salary offers for Cali:

http://www.computrabajo.com.co/bt-ofr-ST024-1.htm

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Brian858 says on Jun 29, 2006, 17:31:

US Consulate in Bogota Isn't there anyone on this board who works at or knows someone who works at the Consulate in Bogota. It's supposed to be one of the largest in the world in terms of employees. I'm sure they get paid in US dollars and get 30% hazardous area pay. Some of those positions could be considered managerial.

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 29, 2006, 19:10:

Not to be pedantic, but it's an embassy, not a consulate. The pay? Depends on whom you are referring to. US citizens work there as Foreign Service Officers or Technicians, or perhaps members of the rest of the alphabet soup found in embassies. (FBI, Commerce, Agriculture, DEA, military attache's, etc.)

They get paid in USD of course. An entry level FSO (management)makes between $45K and $68K, depending on education and experience when entering the service. His/her accomodations are provided rent free. I'm not sure if they get hazardous area pay in Bogota or not. Obviously, that's KICK ASS money for Bogota.

The many Colombian nationals who work there, however, get paid in pesos. It's a nice secure job, but I wouldn't expect their pay to be anything special. Of course they get no hazardous area pay.

The Foreign Service is a great life... but remember, they don't get to stay in any one place forever, and they don't really get to choose their posts. And getting into the FS is hard.

If any of the younger travel junkies on this board are thinking about that route, I recommend you head over to www.state.gov and start learning about it ASAP; it's not like applying for a job in the private sector where they look at your resume, interview you, and decide if they like you or not.

There's a WHOLE lot more to it.

Now... a consulate in Cartagena. THAT would be paradise.

Wasteland

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 20:15:

For FS jobs Go to www.realposts.com - US State Dept employees have to live in special housing and follow a whole bunch of rules. I think they get a 10% salary differential, not 30%, but I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up. Frankly it would ruin it for me being in Bogota and not being able to move around freely, although because you are representing the US gov't you obviously have security issues the rest of us never would have to worry about!

Wasteland, remember two things: NYC is a real estate nightmare AND we get nailed on taxes here. Somebody in Bogota making 2 million a month pays 4% income tax, somebody making 150k a year is in the highest tax bracket if they're single and renting and paying over half of their earnings or more in city, state and federal. So that 12k is now 5 or 6k tops.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 20:28:

Let's say hypothetically We are comparing two professional people, one in NYC, one in Bogota, and that NYC dude clears $5500 a month after tax obligations, and Bogota dude makes a little over 2 million and CLEARs two million.

Bogota dude can rent in whatever neighborhood he wants, even Rosales is not out of reach if he settles for a smaller place. NYC dude, believe it or not, would have to get a share to live in some of the more expensive neighborhoods. Even in the Lower East Side now (which is becoming WAY too trendy for my tastes these days) there are 2 bdrm apartments going for over 5k a month in rental, and plenty of 1 bdrms going for 4k or more!!! NYC guy is going to end up spending at least half his net earnings just on rent, whereas Bogota guy in that same situation would be spending about 1/4 (which is actually normal for many other less insanely priced American cities)

As far as buying a place NYC dude gets a way better interest rate and can buy with very little down, but pays on average 20x more for the privelege. Bogota dude will probably take a lot longer to buy but once he buys he will be able to pay off the mortgage relatively quicker and then live rent and mortgage free.

Now if both guys want to buy the latest PDA, NYC guy has the clear advantage, Bogota guy has to plunk down almost a whole month's salary whereas NYC guy punks down 10% of what he clears that month and walks out the door laughing.

Believe it or not, for going out to restaurants etc they are about on equal footing IMO. There are a lot of truly amazing restaurants in Bogota that are super expensive, and in NYC there are even more truly amazing restaurants that are even MORE expensive. $500 for dinner for two is not that far out of the ordinary here!

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 20:35:

One could keep going for ages on the subject, but here's how I see it:

Advantages NYC guy has:

-Technology is cheap and gets shipped to your door and comes with a REAL warranty.
-Much less chance of getting mugged or pickpocketed.
-More options for fine dining etc, especially more variety
-You can go to a cheaper city and your $ goes a LOT further (Colombian pesos don't spend well outside of Colombia!!!)

Advantages Bogota guy has:

-Rent is WAY easier. Buying property is still easier and cheaper and you get WAY more for your money. You wouldn't believe how mediocre construction is here in the world's most expensive residential zone (Carnegie Hill).
-All your basic expenses will be cheaper. Even Estrato 6 utilities are at a lower rate than they are here, by far.
-You don't ever need to pay for heating or AC!
-You have twice the purchasing power for tailor-made clothes and things of that nature.
-Better public spaces, and better use of them
-You will work less hours and get way more vacation time.
-Your building will be much more likely to have a doorman. You can hire a maid etc for WAY cheaper (the moral implications of this will be left aside for now :P)

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Rubiazo says on Jun 29, 2006, 20:37:

Back to the thread... I say all this simply to support my original point: If you know you like Bogota and somebody offers you a job at 2 or 2.5 million a month and you don't have any US obligations, by all means TAKE IT! Don't worry about it not being enough money!!!

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 30, 2006, 11:01:

Sorry Rubi - I'm not convinced. It looks to me like rather than just swallow a hyperbolic statement, you've now engaged in a whole lot of goal-post shifting.

Now you're up to $2M COP/M vs. $150K/YR. (What happened to $1M COP?)

And sorry, even accounting for the higher COLA and the impact of taxes, I'm still not buying it. Yes, I've lived and owned in both cities as well. I don't even think that you can close the gap by pretending the Bogota guy eats corrientes daily, while the Manhattan guy eats in fine restaurants. It just doesn't work.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. I love Bogota too, after all. And if you made your numbers a little more realistic, I'd be right there with you: for example, I'm considering a position with a multinational that will pay me $60K in Colombia. That's a big pay cut in nominal terms, but I know it will provide me a much nicer lifestyle than I have here in the US.

I'm just trying to point out a pattern that I see in this forum often: gringo goes to Colombia on vacation, or lives there temporarily. Gringo finds it cheap compared to the USA, and gringo gets carried away, not factoring in the expenses that would come with permanent residency and the true impact of a pay cut.

To anybody who dissagrees with that analysis, I'd just issue this challenge: try tracking your expenses while you are partying your ass off in Colombia. YOU try living on 1M COP a month, and see how far it gets you. I guarantee you that you'll be spending a lot fewer evenings buying rounds at Mr. Babillas and Parque 93.

Then think about what it would be like while supporting a family, and paying for insurance, clothes, automobile, etc.

Sometimes the most obvious answers are the correct ones, and there is a reason why there is such great demand for tickets to the US and Spain.

Wasteland

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Wastelandlive says on Jun 30, 2006, 11:16:

Hey Rubi - What's this mean?

R: "I think they [State Dept. Employees] get a 10% salary differential, not 30%, but I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up."

Honest question - differential from what? I don't know what that is.

Wasteland

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Rubiazo says on Jun 30, 2006, 21:32:

They have differentials for things like increased security risk, or assignments that are psychologically difficult (Antarctica for example.) State Despartment employees get paid according to their job position and seniority and then the differential is a % amount of their base salary. Realposts.com ususally has all that info.

I said that *I* would pick Bogota at $2million a month over NYC at $150k a year, I also said that I estimated the MEDIAN SALARY in BOG to be about a million a month, which would compare to NYC's $37k and change. I haven't been able to find any hard data regarding median salaries. I actually think Colombia calculates those numbers with an arithmetic mean instead of a median, for one thing, which means it's totally apples and oranges.

I also don't understand why ANYBODY would want a car in Bogota, when public transit is so good and taxis are so cheap and owning a car is so expensive and parking is so non-existent, not to mention the traffic patterns are literally hell on wheels!

BTW if you search the forum, you will find that I *DID live for a month on 1.5 million, and that included going out a lot more than I normally would, some of it was in the cheaper neighborhoods but I also had a place off of Pepe Sierra in there, and El Sitio on 93. Mr. Babillas holds pretty little interest for me, but we did spend 2 days in Melgar in there. My gf bought dinner a couple times and paid some of the Melgar expenses but a lot of it was on me.

For my normal living expenses in Bogota, I wouldn't surpass a million. Christ, even hookers and cocaine are dirt cheap if someone wants to go that route (I'll pass on the cocaine, thanks :P).

Wasteland, search for "Arrived in Bogota", posted by me. Every last peso I spent in Bogota is archived on there, with totals at the end. I did a mock budget for a whole month. I was actually surprised myself at how low it was considering all the shit I crammed into that month. I even had a suit tailor made for me there, total cost 175k pesos including fabric!! BTW my clothing budget in NYC is usually $150-200 a YEAR!

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miamimike says on Jun 30, 2006, 21:40:

That differential is referred to as a "Locality Differential" and as rule, its 10% of the Base Salary, independent of overtime. Last Federal Job out of the continental US I was offered in Puerto Rico came with this 10% bonus due to the high cost of living there.(housing is pretty$$$ in PR in a decent neighborhood).

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 30, 2006, 22:54:

almost 10 years ago I seriously considered living in the DR before coming to NYC. I decided against it for exactly that reason, unless I were willing to 'go native' completely, there was just no way to make ends meet down there earning Dominican pesos. Going native in Santo Domingo is entirely different from going native in Bogota though.

I have also seriously looked at Brazil as a place to live, and it's WAY cheaper than DR or PR (islands are always insanely expensive compared to people's incomes), but Colombia still beats it hands down for lower cost of living, especially compared to salaries. In Brazil Rio is the worst for cost of living (although it is also the place where people earn the most there) and in Colombia it's Cartagena.

For me one of the big selling points of Bogota is that you never have to heat OR air condition a place. I used to pay $300-400 a month just for AC in my apartment here during the summer months.

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morphus says on Jul 1, 2006, 05:19:

My girl in Medellin just got her first job working in a bank. I think the salary is only going to be around 600,000 COP a month but should get higher as she gets more experience. Its not easy getting a decent job in Medellin if you don't have any working experience. She had to go to 3 interviews. In one interview, they came to her house to see how she lives. She had to have a check up at the doctor and have her blood tested. She also had to go to the police station and get a document stating that she has never been in trouble with the law.

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morphus says on Jul 1, 2006, 05:20:

.

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Wastelandlive says on Jul 1, 2006, 10:59:

Rubi... Roger all that. You did say "$2M COP"; my bad.

What to say? Obviously, it can be done for $2M or even $1M. Will that compare to what 150K buys in New York?

Sorry. Still not buying it. But no cause for a tussle!

Hey - I used to live off of 116th too - in a penthouse in the "El Dorado." Nice neighborhood, eh? I used to walk to HTL to study Spanish, and hit a gymn on the way. Not a bad life while it lasted.

Thanks for the definition of "differential." Could be, I suppose. These kind of bonuses were never a percentage of base pay during my military days - my seapay was something like $250/mo back in the Nav, and I think combat pay was a laughable $150/mo.

("WHOOOOOWHOOO! I'm going to DISNEYLAND when I get back from the Persian Gulf!")

But I don't know the State system in detail.

Hey Rubi, did you actually find WORK in Bogota, or were you just F'n around like me?

Wasteland

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Rubiazo says on Jul 2, 2006, 01:59:

It's all in the thread. Just read it, I found 5 gigs in one day of looking. TBH, coming straight from NY is a BIG selling point, and I wasn't haggling over the price of an egg. But I'd have no problem making 2 or maybe even 3 or 4 million a month down there. Work in music is much more plentiful than it is up here. NYC just has gone down the tubes since 9/11.

But I wouldn't be trying to maximize my income down there, if I really wanted to live like that I could just stay up here and do that! I'm actually working on something that's gonna give me semi-passive income down there, some music-related stuff with friends of mine up here and down there. My real goal like anybody else is to be able to live an easier life and cut out the 7 day work weeks :P Plus that would allow me to concentrate on producing people down there, I know there are lots of seriously awesome artists down there that are also severely lacking in help and resources.

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caslug says on Jul 4, 2006, 08:10:

one thing to remember about income level in US.. while our cost of living is very high.. we have choices to save.. Rubi example of guy living on $5500 AFTER tax n NYC has less of a quality of life than a guy living on $2mil peso n Bogota miss one VERY important point.

The guy in the US CAN choose to SHARE an apartment, so his rent will be $1500-2000, then he can CHOOSE to cook and take public transport AND go out less. So he may be saving $500-1000USD/month. THEN after 1 yr, he has the flexibility to MOVE somewhere EVEN COL while having $6000-12000USD in savings.

While n BOG even if the guy in bog does something comparable and saves 20% of his income, he's only saved 200k peso/mo, after 1 yr it's only 2.4mil peso or about $1100USD. So it's still better off to work n the US for a few years, save money then do what you want. Versus taking a job offer n BOG that ONLY pays 2-3mil/month. Unless of course your doing it for a year or two for the life experience.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 4, 2006, 08:58:

I agree with both of you At least living in Estrato 6 you're gonna pay a seven-digit rent almost for sure. But compare that to living on the upper east side here. A tiny studio apt will cost you over a million, plus about $1000-1200 in maintanence, a decent six-room apt is around $3-4 million, and aside from that the MAINTANENCE is usually around $3-4k a month.

Here there are no shares anywhere in manhattan for less than $1k a month as a rule of thumb, unless you are really lucky or very diligent searching. You can find a decent share in Queens for $700-800. Most places here don't have full kitchens like the rest of the country are used to. And if you live in Queens the trains arent as good as they are in Manhattan.

I definitely agree though that saving money in Colombia to spend out of the country is a bad idea! Not only does the money go almost nowhere, you have capital controls on top of it, all these little taxes and fees. HOWEVER it is EXTREMELEY EXTREMELY difficult to save money here in NYC, no matter what corners you want to cut. So if you are saving 0 in NYC you may as well be saving 0 somewhere else.

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