Colombian President Lashes Out at Magazine

juancegomez says on Apr 17, 2006, 11:04:

Couple of things.. Well, what can I say that hasn't already been mentioned here or elsewhere...only a few things.

-Uribe most definitely shouldn't have lashed out like that. Still, that isn't exactly an attempt to "to muzzle the press", at least not yet. His words alone might give that superficial impression, yet the government hasn't taken any action against any of the publications. If the government were to do something like, say, create a new set of guidelines and prohibitions for the press like those that Mr. Chavez has implemented next door, then that conclusion might make more sense.

-Uribe shouldn't have kept Noguera in a government post either, whether he's innocent or guilty, because that doesn't contribute anything to clearing up the situation.

-Uribe's own responsibility in the situation is unequivocal, in one way or another, though it is still too early for any specific blame to be assigned.

-The AP writer's description of the events that led to Noguera's removal as head of the DAS isn't entirely accurate. It's also inaccurate to give the impression that it was only Uribe, and not Noguera himself, who mentioned that the former DAS chief had met with Jorge 40 during the demobilization talks.

-On that note, it was Noguera himself that, basically, helped put Rafael Garcia in jail. The two have a personal grudge, despite being former friends (or rather, precisely because of that fact).

-The accusations appear to be serious, plausible and grave, yet they remain accusations. Not completely proven facts upon which final judgement can be issued.

-Ramiro Bejarano must have been head of the DAS in a very different reality, if he means to say that Colombia hasn't already been, in more than a few ways, a "little mafiosa republic" for quite a few years.

-Jose Miguel Vivanco must also remember that such a situation is hardly new, hardly exclusive to this or any other administration.

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juanalejo says on Apr 17, 2006, 12:25:

"Uribe shouldn't have kept Noguera in a government post either, whether he's innocent or guilty, because that doesn't contribute anything to clearing up the situation."

Goverments are full of scandals and if accusations that have not been proved ban people for other posts, then good people will stay away from public service in order to avoid getting bad reputations. That should never the case.

"Uribe's own responsibility in the situation is unequivocal, in one way or another, though it is still too early for any specific blame to be assigned."

Precisely why Uribe made a mistake by over reacting instead of promising a full investigation.

The accusations appear to be serious, plausible and grave, yet they remain accusations. Not completely proven facts upon which final judgement can be issued.

Reason why Noguera should not resign to his post, if not the press would become the judges. Press should remain alert to avoid the justice not doing their work, but not beyond that.

And regarding Mr. Vivanco, he forgets he belongs to a "watching" organization, but he seems to suffer from the same problem as some of the press, they believe themselves as the owners of the one and only truth, they see themselves as a Supreme Court which can never be wrong.

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juancegomez says on Apr 17, 2006, 12:51:

juanalejo The press shouldn't try to be judges, certainly. But they do have a right (and some would say a duty) to investigate and to criticize, hopefully in a professional and serious manner too.

It's not a matter of good people resigning over any and all accusations. Yet temporarily resigning, for example, wouldn't necessarily mean that Noguera is or isn't guilty, but it would have been a sign of transparency and of political will. A sign that the government is willing to do anything in order to clear things up, and isn't afraid to submit Noguera to further scrutiny.

If he's innocent, then a temporary sacrifice for the greater good wouldn't be a bad thing, even if it would be bothersome.

If he's guilty, then he's only needlessly increasing suspicions about him, even if that makes him more comfortable.

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 17, 2006, 20:26:

Judges, politicians, press, HR... "having made this notoriously violent country considerably safer for the average citizen."

I would substitute "considerably" for "apparently"

"Uribe's stern lecture..."

Is the bar so low that a concatenation of inarticulate rantings is considered a "lecture"? Whoa...

"The harm isn't to Alvaro Uribe. The harm is to the legitimacy of Colombian democracy"

Which, for him, are one and the same.

"I'm not going to allow accusations to stand that the government assassinated labor leaders or was implicated in a conspiracy against Venezuela or somehow allowed me to steal the 2002 elections."

Not that he is going to prove them wrong, as he has avoided any discussion of his performance. He just won't let them stand.

"I think President Uribe is the voice of paramilitarism, in so far as by his hand he has sketched a little mafiosa republic"

Sorry, but I read Bejarano every week in El Espectador, and this is not representative of his tone. He is very harsh on the president, no doubt about it, but always backs it with verifiable facts. The quote is a conclusion he reaches after considering some verifiable actions of the government. A quote like this, without any context, gives the wrong impression of a baseless animosity.

"Jose Miguel Vivanco, expressed concern that Iguaran, a former deputy justice minister under Uribe, would have an extremely difficult time with his investigation."

The most difficult thing is that Iguarán worked in Uribe's government as viceminister of Justice+Interior. I haven't followed his most recent actions, but I sure hope that he puts the investigation on a name that is thoroughly unrelated to Uribe.

"Ramiro Bejarano must have been head of the DAS in a very different reality"

Bejarano gave an interesting and quite informative interview in Semana to M.I. Rueda (http://semana.terra.com.co/wf_InfoArticuloNormal.aspx?IdArt=93895). He briefly contrasts his experience in DAS with those in subsequent administrations. I'm sure he sometimes chuckles when comparing the magnitude of the scandals the Uribe administration has been facing to the things he was accused of. I believe he (I mean DAS under his admin) was, for a brief period, accused of tapping some people's phones. I believe that was solved quite swiftly. And that was it, no more. And the biggest scandal of the time was the 8000 process which, as he says, pales in comparison to the stuff this administration is accused of doing.

"Jose Miguel Vivanco must also remember that such a situation is hardly new, hardly exclusive to this or any other administration."

I'm sure he does. Vivanco doesn't seem to be precisely a dud.

"Goverments are full of scandals and if accusations that have not been proved ban people for other posts, then good people will stay away from public service in order to avoid getting bad reputations. That should never the case."

They shouldn't, but one also has to distinguish political from legal responsibility. Legally, you are not guilty until proven so. Politically, you are a burden if enough reasonable accusations fall on your shoulders. I know of very good people (e.g., a former president of Banco Agrario) who did everything by the books, but forgot that his was a political position (whether we like it or not) and that opinion matters. The good people doesn't have to stay away: They just have to realize that their job is public and has a responsibility to the public. But, anyway, here I am talking about a minimum standard that Noriega did not even come close to a grasp. Any decent person with all those accusations (the man I knew from BanAgrario did not get a fraction of those) should just step aside. Or stick by his guns. One of the two. The wishy-washy decision of taking (and of being offered) a consulate is dishonorable, and questions his reputation and that of the president who made the offer. I'm not sure if he is going to be guilty of what he's accused of or not, but politically, he is a moron.

"Reason why Noguera should not resign to his post, if not the press would become the judges. Press should remain alert to avoid the justice not doing their work, but not beyond that."

I don't think that in any case the press became or came close to becoming judges of anything, like Mr. Uribe said. They do their research and present what they deem to be the facts. The report by Semana was of some of the best journalistic caliber we see in Colombia. The public should be the (political) judge of their officials. A good politician should sense when a good project is being undermined by bad opinion, and, of his/her own initiative, step aside.

"they believe themselves as the owners of the one and only truth, they see themselves as a Supreme Court which can never be wrong."

Watching and not saying serves absolutely no purpose. No judicial decision is based on the opinion of HRW or the press. They contribute facts that can be weighed for any legal purpose not by any HR organization, not by the press, but exclusively by a fiscal and a judge. Thus far, if the plan of HR organizations and press is to substitute the judicial branch, they have failed miserably in Colombia.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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juancegomez says on Apr 17, 2006, 22:42:

Sr Tertius... Btw, though I don't always read his columns on El Espectador, I've had the chance to listen to several of Bejarano's (usually) weekly participations on Caracol Radio (specifically on "Hora 20").

He tends to make plenty of interesting arguments, arguments that contribute to the political debate and therefore deserve respect even when I happen to disagree with several of his opinions, though sometimes his language does seem rather pointy (which isn't necessarily such a bad thing, but which does tend to make people with different opinions uneasy, because by itself it does give an impression of animosity).

"He briefly contrasts his experience in DAS with those in subsequent administrations. I'm sure he sometimes chuckles when comparing the magnitude of the scandals the Uribe administration has been facing to the things he was accused of. I believe he (I mean DAS under his admin) was, for a brief period, accused of tapping some people's phones. I believe that was solved quite swiftly. And that was it, no more."

The scandals are definitely bigger now, no question about that.

But forgive me if, despite the fact that I've often defended previous attempts to equate the DAS with paramilitarism (overall; that is, independently of the situation under the current administration) or to automatically make it responsible for past and present assassinations and disappearances, I still have a rather negative personal and intellectual perspective about the "secret police" and the "intelligence agencies" in our Colombia.

Their record hasn't been exactly clean in the past, to say the least. The DAS, unfortunately, has grown too many tentacles over the decades. It's grown too big and has assumed too many functions, which definitely doesn't help spare it from the contamination that has touched other intelligence entities, not to mention the political establishment.

So, if I had been a previous head of the DAS not much more than a decade ago, I wouldn't try to claim absolute moral superiority on behalf of my earlier experience (though relative moral superiority might qualify, at least in theory). Mr. Bejarano himself might have been uncorrupt, but I doubt that the DAS was free of "dirty little secrets" even under his guidance.

There's always the possibility that what is only my personal opinion may be 100% wrong, that the DAS under Bejarano committed no greater sin than the one case you mentioned, but since so many ugly things remain unresolved in this country of ours...I prefer to continue having certain doubts, and respectfully continue having a certain amount of distrust towards the DAS and its ilk (even if this distrust doesn't lead me to the conclusions that others have reached, of course).

"I'm sure he does. Vivanco doesn't seem to be precisely a dud."

I can agree with that without too many difficulties. Still, I made the comment mostly for those that might read this forum and might not be sure of that. It wasn't really intended as a direct reply to Mr. Vivanco himself, though that was the form it took.

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