Colombian culture what surprises you what do you love and hate about it

suzannyo says on Jan 13, 2005, 21:59:

Couple observations... I admitedly know only a small number of Colombians, so the following comments are based on them and my experiences with them, not the whole population of Colombia...that being said...

One thing I noticed is that things in Bogota seem to be much "cooler" than Cartagena not only the weather, but the social atmosphere as well. People seem to be more focused on themselves there. Asking questions about the day's itinerary or info about something for work was taken as being nosy or as implying that I was frustrated, when all I really wanted to know was how to budget my time or how to best do my job that day. In the US, we're encouraged to ask questions, to get things right, and to be team players, all things that seem to go at least the grain at least some of the time in Colombia.

However, Colombians are some of the hardest working people I know, the most dedicated to making life better for those around them. Family bonds seem stronger than here in the US. Colombians are far and away more hospitable and generous than Americans.

I LOVE COLOMBIA!!

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bitt3rvanilla says on Jan 14, 2005, 08:01:

differences I think the differences lie in how colombians feel about giving a negative. Although that is changing in most big cities, if you meet someone at a club or whatever and you ask for a number the person might give you a wrong number just because they dont want to talk to you again but feel awful when saying "no"...Nobody here forgets their own phone numberm trust me!
Colombian families are often very controlling yes, but I do believe it is due to the situation of the country, mums dont want their children to be out in the streets till late because it can be dangerous. If you go to the coast or smaller towns youll find people are super laid back.
Parents do like to know who their kids are hanging out with and they tend to know their children's friends and where they usually hang out. That might classify as controlling i think...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2005, 09:42:

amor y control is the name of a rather old Ruben Blades song. That's the basic formula for the Colombian family.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Albatross says on Jan 14, 2005, 10:02:

Geography 101 After giving this question much thought, I've come to the conclusion that most Colombians live much closer to the equator than most Britons...

This was a surprise, but I don't know if I love this about them or if I hate them for it.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2005, 10:30:

this is actually a very good thread First I hated people getting in my face, being very curious, inquisitive and intimate with me without knowing me. Now, I love it.

I also hated people flattering me all the time without knowing me. Now, I love it and have learned to flatter people too.

First, I hated the provincialism, the small-town mentality of the Caleños. Now, I'd rather be there than anywhere else in the world.

First, I hated the fluid concept of time Colombians had. Now, people here (Sweden) hate my fluid concept of time.

First, I hated the flirtateous, suave Caleño men. Now, I can't live without having sweet words whispered into my ear.

I guess, I've become a little bit "equatorial" myself, over the years.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2005, 12:52:

bump just because I think this is a such a good thread :)
However, my subconscious betrayed me here. "Me sorprende que tu digas eso" in my ears means I hate to hear what you're saying.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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spigrimace says on Jan 14, 2005, 13:08:

I hate to be negative but let's talk business culture I can give a lot more positives than negatives about Colombia but let's dwell on the negative...

Think just visiting or living in Colombia is tough? Try doing business as a gringo there! There are genuinely nice people there but in the culture of business all and I mean all Colombians unfortunately are very unfair and downright despicable at times in business. There are people who will try to sell you their house and the owner will pay the Avaluo (appraiser) you as the buyer hired, $500.000 to say the house is worth $20.000.000 more than it is really worth, before you agree on a price. Or if you own a business and use a manager (administrador), he/she will make deals with venders (proveadores) to submit false inflated receipts so the manager and vender can split the difference. There are corrupt notaries that can be paid off to change a contract AFTER it was signed in front of the notary by all parties and submitted. You cannot take anything said in business as fact. There are lots of posers (payasos) in these elaborate schemes. In general the game is always the same.... they try and gain your confidence over time and then when they got it, they stab you in the back. It's a very cruel business culture.

The other negatives I can say are how insane they drive, there is no courtesy or defensive driving and in the cities, they need to clean up the pollution with regards to the buses and motos, it's nasty how much soot ends up on everything.

That's the end of my whining. I promise.

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lpdiver says on Jan 14, 2005, 13:13:

Hmmmmm Sounds like the good old Estados Unidos. As I learned in my seventh grade latin class "Caveat Emptor". I have wanted to open a store called Caveat Emptoriom ever since. jejejeje

"cook some rice!"

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oldbongo says on Jan 14, 2005, 13:20:

spigrimace.... you look perfect to a spaniard.....ripe!!
sounds like you're learning from the ground up.
it starts real early there,...500 years ago.

it's you're girl thats fat and ugly,....jeje

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Lionheart says on Jan 14, 2005, 13:44:

one thing I really like I like the fact that children stay at their parent's house until they get married, and that the family members (old and young) move back in when it is called for.

The family togetherness is much tighter than in other cultures, but also more supportive when needed. Yes, there is also more control, but that needn't be bad. Looking at the desolate family situation in the USA or Germany, I think the Latins are doing a much better job in this aspect. Nothing is 100%, but I prefer living within a close-knit family.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2005, 13:58:

love and control lionheart, is a good thing. There can, of course, be too much of the latter. Colombian youngsters tend to be much less free to make their own choices compared to the young ones in Germany or Sweden, or in the States. In the middle class it's often the family tradition that dictates their futures: which schools, universities, social clubs etc. they'll attend.
Not having Daddy Government to back them up, they rely entirely on their families and the values/priorities of their class and peers.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 14, 2005, 19:00:

They do have to rely on their families a lot which can be a good thing or a bad thing. It does bring you closer together out of necessity. Unfortunately you're also closer to a lot of asshole relatives you'd like to deep six. Take me for example. Now the whole bunch of them is stuck with a loser gringo not just their loser daughter. Even her 4 year old niece was asking, "WTF is the gringo doing here?"

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ARMacleod says on Jan 15, 2005, 03:00:

Looser; UC?
‘Loser' is in the eye of the beholder, much like beauty is. I think from reading you, you are more likely to be the winner. You are obviously happy?

When I observe the remnants of my family in UK scratching and dealing for every penny they can to ‘keep up with the Jonses' I know that, certainly in my mind, it is not I who is the loser. I am as happy as the proverbial ‘pig in S***'.

Look into my coffin, you will see that I am the only one, amongst few others who has a smile on my face. There are no pockets in a shroud.

Who is the Loser?

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions. ¡El diablo me hizo lo hago! But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 15, 2005, 03:05:

utopia you gave me the first laugh of the morning! That was hilarious!
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ElViajero says on Jan 15, 2005, 04:30:

Spigrimace, you are completely right in that… surely many Colombians share that same opinion. Oldgringo says right also: it is a long time inherited brought from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean in 1492. I think family is an excellent value we need to keep in Colombia. Social problems in our country, especially things like urban violence in the poor quarters of the big cities, have just the origin in the fragmentation of families. See for example that expression of the classic “sicario” boy saying “la cucha es la cucha, papa puede ser cualquier h.p.” Peace and progress in Colombia have to start not only protecting that natural value of togetherness of the Colombian families, but promoting and developing it as well. Our identity has to see very much with our rural origins. The 70% of the population living in urban areas does not mean that Colombians have already a complete culture of the metropolis. Our cities are actually very young in comparison: their boom started just in the 30’s (last century). The majority of the inhabitants of our cities are people coming right from the countryside, so just the new generations are the firsts really been born in cities, but their parents and grand parents are or were campesinos. For this reason the regionalism is so much strong, where in every city of region people think they are the centre of the country or even the world. Flirting is a deep part of a Colombian male. Surely, only speechless guys don’t do that in Colombia, but in stead they use other things. A friend of mine, a beautiful lady from Ireland, can not forget her stay in Cartagena: she went to buy something and the man of the store said: “Mamacita, para usted lo que sea”… That never happen in Dublin.

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spigrimace says on Jan 15, 2005, 06:16:

Oldgringo - from the ground up Definitely. I always think it's amazing when you do business in Colombia and simply ask for the "prueba" to back up what someone said, and then when they don't have the proof and you have caught them in their lie, they just smile and just keep dancing with the boca like nothing happened.

Like when one tries to buy property and the owner says he paid $150.000.000 for the property 2 years ago, you ask for proof that he paid that and you want to see the escritorio from the notary which says maybe $40.000.000, then they'll say well it's lower to pay lower taxes, then I'll say okay show me checks or withdrawals from your bank account around 2 years ago that add up to 150.000.000 and then they'll say, oh I paid cash (their face now starting to get red because they know their lie is caught). And I'll say my friend this is Colombia, no one keeps $150.000.000 sitting around under a matress (and knowing that you better have the proof of where your money came from or DIAN can seize it). Then they'll shrug and say but it's worth $200.000.000 (so why not sell it for $200.000.000?) Then they'll have their friend, brother or whomever walk in (as a payaso) and act like their ready to offer $140.000.000 to get you to jump in. Then when I walk away, it's amazing that I always get a call a day or 2 later that the $140.000.000 deal fell thru or they say I really feel bad, I offered this deal to you first and want you to have it, I'll let you have it for $130.000.000 (why would anyone take 10.000.000 less? lol).

I used to be really pissed at these tatics but now its sort of a sick twisted game that I get a kick out of.

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lpdiver says on Jan 15, 2005, 06:29:

OG My ex-wife would love Colombia. She would peruse the isles if the local supermarket and select all the dented cans and then haggle with the grocer for a discount and usually get a surprizingly large discount. This all came to an end when the grocer caught her bashing the cans together to dent them.

Personally I hate to haggle. But have learned to do so and have gotten good but still It leaves a bad taste.

"cook some rice!"

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isaactraveler says on Jan 15, 2005, 06:59:

Spigrimace that ploy is universal it's just that the Colombians arent as good at faking it as we are. Thats also something charming, I think. The obvious scheming on sales.

Colombians ( especially paisas) think they are extremely good business people and will work and work and overwork a deal I must have spent at least 2 hours chatting with a merchant over the purchase of a digital camera. I think I made about $70 on the deal, mainly because we agreed to take a full set of pots and pans and we did the transaction in 3 payments. WHEW!! I think I could have made more money with a lemonade stand here in the States.

Lucky for me that when in Colombia, everything moves on Colombia time. 2 hours was just a few minutes by U.S. standards.

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oldbongo says on Jan 15, 2005, 09:09:

grimace and ike...you guys got ... sechel and chutzpah...
you'll be fine...

diver...if you don't like the taste of capitalism..
you might like the taste of life as a buddhist monk...

how 'bout this...the olgringo would love to hear from
colombians, explaining why it's considered normal, acceptable, ..... to be.....late,...late,....no call....
late, late,.. sometimes plain no-show,...sometimes gone for years...

we're busy, the traffic, the line, the wife, the kid,..the excuse....
he'd just like to hear a thoughtful colombian reponse..

oldgringos are prepared for disasters,catastrophies,problems,theives..etc..

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robi666 says on Jan 16, 2005, 01:39:

Spigrimace Are you talking about making business in Colombia or Italy? Have you never tried to buy a company? Or French? Spanish? Or invest in a US world famous Telecom company :-) ? Much worse than having a 20.000.000 extra on an house deal!
Try to deal with an investor relator...
I lived with that all my life and it doesn't seem to be any different in the so called "civilized countries"... Things may be a little stressed up and "naive", but, believe me, business is just business... Or should we think that all gringos have got blue eyes?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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lpdiver says on Jan 16, 2005, 05:24:

Damaging merchandise the offering to but it at a reduced price is capitalism? So maybe I should walk down to the Mercedes dealership kick dents into all of the doors and offer to buy it at half price? Interesting, but I'll pass. I might; however, pass this tip along to my ex-wife. It would so help my divorce battle if she was incarcerated.

"cook some rice!"

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