Colombian cocaine entering the US is NOT a Colombian problem

Catfish35 says on Sep 29, 2008, 15:39:

On those same lines..how about a campaign slogan like this.."SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DRUG DEALER"...dealers at all levels do not save their money neither do users at all levels..meaning that the flow of illegitimate money into the legit market place would be astounding if it could be calculated..dealers don't save or invest their money..they put it back into the system ie, cars, houses, fat things like clothes, chrome wheels, fake companies, and all the bling bling..Rich people save and hoard their money..poor people can't they have none..middle class can't they don't have enough...between cash/property seizures and forfeitures, the bribes and corruption, the tax payer money to keep Federal. State, and Local centers, programs, and anything that is tied to it. They could never stop the drug trade. I would like to know how much of that money we have sent to Colombia to help out has wormed its way back into the USA and into certain pockets.

But its like I said..business 101..supply and demand..if we did not demand it the supply would dry up and blow away..although ingesting drugs will never go away like sex..their could be a trend where people would just not want it..look at smoking in the USA and how that has decreased.

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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CascadeBob says on Sep 29, 2008, 15:45:

I believe you are more right than wrong there henry, particularly with the "war on drugs."

Where does the money orignate from to finance narco operations in Mexico, Central and South America the first place? Colombia, Panama, Mexico? Hell no, they're just the suppliers and transportors. The foundation to the whole drug trade are the distributors and traffickers here in the good ole' U.S. of A.

So while Mexico is turning into a shooting gallery and U.S. financed operations are broadcast spraying the Colombian and Ecuadorian environment with really nasty chemicals(and to hell with anyone in the way), it's business as usual for the narcotraficantes in the U.S.

Somehting is way, way wrong here.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 29, 2008, 15:55:

It's a Colombian problem - South America provides about 20% of the demand
It's a North American problem - about 45% of demand
It's a European problem - about 25% of demand
And it's a rest of the world problem - about 15% of demand

==============

From the 2008 UN Office on Drugs and Crime World Drug Report:

In 2006/07, an estimated 16 million people worldwide, or 0.4% of the global population aged 15-64, consumed cocaine. The largest numbers of cocaine users are found in
North America (7.1 million people or 45% of the world total), followed by West & Central Europe (3.9 million people or 24%) and South America (including Central America and the Caribbean: 3.1 million or 19% of the total).

Frequently quoted estimates among enforcement agencies in recent years suggested that some 450 mt of cocaine (46% of production in 2006) may be destined for markets in North America (trend falling) and some 250 mt (25% of production) for markets in Europe (trend rising).

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2008/WDR_2008_eng_web.pdf
Warning: This is a huge file.

===============

As the report states, everything is an estimate and frequency of use estimates vary widely across countries.

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TobyBoy says on Sep 29, 2008, 16:43:

...But too bad, in fact shameful, that all the protagonists of this plight do NOT have the same percentages in blood shed, and money spent, as do the noble, long-suffered people of Colombia.

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panthdave says on Sep 29, 2008, 16:58:

Who says its a Colombian problem except they did accept billions of dollars to stop it which is the problem..?????? Maybe its a Colombian problem now that they did accept all that money to stop cocaine production and its not being done....Makes you think....Most of the busts are being doing in the ocean by United States/UK Navy and Coast Guard...anyways...Not to be a jerk but that was a bad investment of the United States at this point except to earn a friend in the region..

panthdave Miami

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dwmte7 says on Sep 29, 2008, 17:07:

the u.s. is a bit the dolt.....waging a 'war on drugs' in and with a country where use and possession for personal consumption is legal. it's a bit of an oxymoron.

years ago on the news in medellin one evening, an american journalist was interviewing a capo at his home in poblado and after much chat about the trade, the capo asked the journalist if he was familiar with nancy raegan...and of course the chap said yes. then the colombian went on to say, "how do you ""just say no""to one hundred billion dollars?"

dwmte

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panthdave says on Sep 29, 2008, 17:13:

Everybody is winning except the taxpayers of the United States..First the government is getting billions of dollars to stop the drugs and the Capos,Farc,Paramilitary,Cartels are getting paid billions of dollars for selling it...What a winner for Colombia....Damn getting paid for stopping it and selling it....on both sides..Amazing Makes you think....

REALLY I CAN'T WAIT WHEN THEY LEGALIZE IT OH MAN THAT WILL BE WAR...Colombian Government will lose billions and the Dealers will lose billions. What a theory Huh...Do really have to be a rocket scientist to figuire this one out....

panthdave Miami

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dwmte7 says on Sep 29, 2008, 19:28:

you're right dave, it's the profiteers that keep it illegal.

dwmte

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 29, 2008, 19:53:

the drug problem is a SA problem, specifically a Colombian problem, but the problem isn't drugs, it is other social, political, and economic issues relating to poverty...If dafadil bulbs were as valuable as coca leaves, then you would see less coca...people will try to maximize their income the best they can..

I was very surprised we lost the election-Sarah Palin

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turnmeon says on Sep 29, 2008, 21:29:

casa so then how come the US is one of the bigger producers of marihuana in the world?

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morphus says on Sep 29, 2008, 23:02:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071216100333AA9cpLg

"cocaine wont kill you unless youre stupid and overdose, or have a preexisting condition such as a congenital heart defect or something of that sort. Unlike some other people say that it will make you stupid, it wont do that either. It really doesnt mess much with your intelligence. However it really affects negatively areas in your brain which are related to behavior, emotions, compulsive behavior, and morals. This means that you might not be able to control yourself in some social situations, you wont get excited or happy very easily, you might not enjoy things which you used to love, and you may make some immoral decisions. For example, regarding the fact that you may not enjoy things as much as before you start doing coke, i have a friend who used to love listen to music. He said that he used to feel something inside when he listen to it, but he couldnt anymore after he had done coke for a while. an example about how coke takes over your morals, is a story i heard on the news about some woman who let a drug dealer sexually abuse her own daughter for ONE hit of coke.

As you can see even if "school" intelligence isnt very much affected, your social and emotional intelligence is very much so, which is just as bad. how much better would it be if cocaine would just kill you like people say it does, before you get to the point where you let your daughter get sexually abused for it, or before you cannot enjoy anything because cocaine is constantly in the back of your mind. to end with a happier note, there are some people who are able to get off it and are not very affected by it, but you never know if you are going to be one of those lucky ones."

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casa_de_norte says on Sep 29, 2008, 23:28:

morphus says on Sep 29, 2008, 23:02 (today):

It really doesnt mess much with your intelligence. However it really affects negatively areas in your brain which are related to behavior, emotions, compulsive behavior, and morals. This means that you might not be able to control yourself in some social situations, you wont get excited or happy very easily, you might not enjoy things which you used to love, and you may make some immoral decisions.
==================================================================
When I read that, all i could think about was reading the side effect profile for a prescription drug...

The social consequences of drug use are beyond pathetic. I for one, though successful now, think back on how my life would have been different if I wouldn't have been such a wild idiot in my teens and early twenties....I can remember when coke was mainstream in the 1980s... it was touted as the thinking man's drug,, the drug only the upwardly mobile used, and no side effects....until 40 year olds were having strokes and major heart attacks, oh and Richard Pryor's hair caught on fire free basing the stuff.

Until a stronger middle class is emerges in Colombia, coca production will remain high, (or until Coffee becomes $1000 a pound).. I know, if somebody in FARC or the Paramilitary came around, and I was a poor dirt farmer in Colombia, and they put a pistol to my head and said, "grow coca" and here is a bunch of cash... Well, I would be very happy with the money, and I would grow coca freely, whats the down side? Give the dirt farmer something to fight for, (better prices for his crop), and protection from intimadation, and then you decrease production...Prices go up on the street, and less customers in NYC...

JMHO

I was very surprised we lost the election-Sarah Palin

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panthdave says on Sep 30, 2008, 04:48:

Legalize it and many World problems will be resolved end of story....Terrorists will not have drug funds, Mexican cartel will disappear, etc etc etc etc....Addiction will always be here anyways so....maybe the money saved by legalizing some of it can go into drug education and rehabs.....

panthdave Miami

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nine inch nails says on Sep 30, 2008, 04:49:

Uh what about the coca sellers agents in the U.S. who aggresssively push the drugs on the ground to make maximum profit? Has to be some culpability there also even if indirect.

Yes the demand is there but drug users have to made also. The whole supply and demand chain is a problem.

I love that sweet pretty house music, house music....

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sanandressi says on Sep 30, 2008, 07:29:

Other than Bolivians chewing coco leaves at 12,000 feet to help handle the altitude what good are coco leaves? Is it a food that gives nutritional value?

The production of a worthless crop is just as bad as the demand. This is how criminals try to justify the production of coco leaves in Colombia. "Well, if the gringos did not demand it we would grow the stuff." I haerd this in Colombia. In theory it is true but it is also a denial of responsibility. Every acre/hectare in Latin America that is being used for coco should have a viable food stuff being grown. People don't eat coco leaves in order to live.

I have a lot of trouble with people who smoke pot and use drugs and live in denial trying to tell themselves they don't have a problem. Hollywood actors for example? Alcohol is the same too!

"FDR in 1929 as president went on televison..." Joe Biden DEMOCRAT VP candidate who just keeps on giving! FDR elected 1932 and television appeared in the 1950''s LOL

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sanandressi says on Sep 30, 2008, 07:31:

Correction, "If the gringos did NOT demand/use it, we would NOT grow it"

"FDR in 1929 as president went on televison..." Joe Biden DEMOCRAT VP candidate who just keeps on giving! FDR elected 1932 and television appeared in the 1950''s LOL

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dwmte7 says on Sep 30, 2008, 07:41:

nice quote, morph.....you see, i'm a perfect example of how drug use didn't effect my intelligence, moral conduct/outlook, social conduct, enterprise and familial piety.....only been married and divorced 7 times, forgot where i placed my coffee cup ten minutes ago, started out the door to do some choirs in the yard...sat down outside and spaced the plan. birthdays of the kids??? hmmm is that really important. bank balance? etc, etc, etc............

go ahead gang...get/stay stoned, don't bother to think about what day it is, or for that matter, what time of day it is, where you are, who you're with, where you're going/coming from, what the plan is/was. just go for it.

and wake up, if your lucky, some umpteen years later and wonder where the time went. what really happened; who's fault all the chaos was; why familial opinion is a bit on the down side towards you; and how you somehow got your head stuck up your ass.

listen.....i did WAY more than my share of magical plants and synthized whatever. yep, it was a long, wild, ride. unfortunately, it was taken at the expense of self respect, family, friends and business.

sooo, dear friends, buyer beware.

dwmte

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eywed says on Sep 30, 2008, 15:16:

I feel it is a Colombian problem as well as a U.S, problem. We are friends and as friends we help each other out. Simple concept that seems to have been lost on too many folks. If Colombia has a problem say F.A.R.C. then as a friend I sure don't mind some of my tax dollars going to help my friends out.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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panthdave says on Sep 30, 2008, 17:04:

Reality there always will be demand so legalize it...Why can't we look at reality..So many funds could be saved....and FARC won't receive drug funds anymore and will have a hard time to arm themselves. We will not have to fund Colombia for coca extradition and will not have to fund all the police,judges,jails,DEA,Coast Guard, so so so on..Drug Gangs will disappear like the Mexican Cartel......It is not Colombia's fault except they did take Plan Colombia money when they knew it would not be stopped...

Reality is addiction is everywhere and always be here.....Can't we realize this...

panthdave Miami

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aussiesam says on Oct 1, 2008, 07:02:

war on drugs is such a joke it's not funny..all it does is create more crime and make criminals richer. when will people wake up to this and spend the wasted billions of dollars on things that are important like health, education and social security.

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Cerealkiller says on Oct 1, 2008, 07:31:

I don't know much about drugs myself, I don't do drugs and I am not even curious about them. However, this whole "Dear Colombia, here's this crapload of money, let's get rid of the problem down there and this is how we will do it" deal doesn't quite cut it for me. I do not know what governments are doing to curb consumption and trafficking within the country, but my experiences -although not representative- lead me to believe national efforts are mediocre at best.

Two examples: I have never in my life seen cocaine IRL while in Colombia, and I partied hard down there. So maybe I went to the wrong places? Colombians don't snort the stuff in public places? I haven't got a clue. Partying in England, on the other hand, is a completely different story. Dealers approach you in the middle of the dance floor and offer drugs like they were selling mineral water, then you turn around and someone is snorting coke and taking happy pills right there, in your face.

What about campaigns in universities to curb consumption? I attended a little private university in London and found, to my dismay, that a vast majority of my classmates did cocaine regularly in dorms, school parties and private members clubs. Why are cops questioning kids from council estates in Peckham and Hackney and not the rich ones in Chelsea -who can actually afford the stuff- is beyond me ...

Is it a Colombian problem? Yes, of course it is, but it is also America's and Europe's and Asia's so shared responsibility is key.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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dwmte7 says on Oct 1, 2008, 09:54:

well, legislation covering GOD's work is a toughie. HE planted it/created it...so, since HE didn't make no junk...it must be ok. i confess openly, i did more than my share. and i'm no spring chicken....i didn't however let it take over my propriety over my life and my business affairs---the above notwithstanding--

the reality is, government, the crime factions, the dealers, the shippers and smugglers. THEY are the ones who in a coordinated fashion, lobby and support groups that keep it illegal just like happened in the era of prohibition. the last govt quote i heard, was we're talking about $140,000,000,000.00 USD.annually. now if we can momentarily be serious, that ain't chump change...we're almost talking serious money. how do you "just say no" to that kind of money? when there's more than enough to spread amongst senators, presidents, military, capos, police....that's a lot of 'grease'. now, if we'll continue in this serious moment...do you think these folks want to stop the flow of that cash? hardly.

to be more serious, these corrupt murderers don't give a tinker's damn if folks die, if they're disinfranchaised from their homes...they could give a shit. the money's so big and it's paying off countless corrupt souls in colombia, the u.s., europe, asia, the arab states.

so as sad as it is, don't look for a change in the status quo, any time soon. the rich folks in their phenomenal fincas in colombia are not about to lose sleep over the poor and displaced. they're happy, they can go to europe, miami and the death of the campesinos doesn't mean shit to them. changing hearts, is very hard work.
douglas

dwmte

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 1, 2008, 10:12:

DWMTE - That's an interesting and very self-serving theory. God may have put coca and lime (the mineral) on this earth, but I don't remember reading about gasoline, acetone and and a bunch of other synthetic chemicals in the Garden of Eden.

;-)

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dwmte7 says on Oct 1, 2008, 15:13:

i'll forget the 'self-serving' comment and focus on the rest. if you take a trip through the gold museum, it will be evident to the common eye that the ancients used coca in it's powdered form. arch evident. how they did its reduction i have no clue. but, to elaborate my point, regardless your posture or feelings about mine, did you ever try tooting coca leaves through a nasal tube? these are in abundance iin the museum.

dwmte

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morphus says on Oct 2, 2008, 16:11:

Its also unfair for the people using. Its not their fault its illegal.

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quantum says on Oct 2, 2008, 20:52:

Darwins survival of the fittest and natural selection at work, 24 and 7. Dont expect any govt. to protect u from the evils and threats. Everybodys got to figure it out for themselves and pick and choose and navigate their own course. Looks like were all survivors here, so we must be talkin about the less fortunate.........

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