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Colombia vs Cuba

i'm trying to decide between Colombia or Cuba for my next vacation. which country is more tourist friendly?

By Grumpy on Aug 7, 2005, 08:09 in Friendly Talkzone.

Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 08:18:

It depends on what do you like, what do you want to see and do. Colombia is bigger and has more things to do. Cuba has some nice tourist areas, beaches and you have no problem with crime or terrorist. But I would still recommend Colombia unless you want something in specific that Cuba has that Colombia does not. This is an unbiased opinion since I am not Colombian. What are your interests?

Good luck,

Peter Miami

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jacobtafler says on Aug 7, 2005, 08:41:

colombia or cuba only colombia i was in cuba more than 30 times the only good things about it that it is very save place cuba is very expensive know and the colombian s are more friendly and any thing you have in cuba you have in colombia even puck cigars better go to colombia mayby the cuban girls are more easy the food in cuba is bad you are not free to do what you wont colombia only colombia i am not colombian i live in rio de janeiro 20 years and colombia is even better than brasil i am sure it is the best peoples in sauth america only colombia my friend

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 11:07:

Women are very, very easy in Cuba.

Peter Miami

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jacobtafler says on Aug 7, 2005, 11:18:

peter miami this isthe only thing you can do in cuba look for women if i live in rio and do it but you can not trust this women the average salery in cuba is 30 dolars a months and the prices are 3 or times more than colombia i preaper colombian women good working women most of tham there are not so easy but at list you can get good one if you look cearful have a nice day

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 13:38:

jacobtafler I am not speaking bad about the Cuban women. They have to do it because there is no money or much else in Cuba. Unlike Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Argentina, etc. If you want to pay for a women it is much cheaper in Cuba. Trust me I travel a lot.

Peter Miami

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DayTripper says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:04:

Chicks more easy in Cuba or Colombia? Yes, Cuba is pretty save, as it is a police-state.
And because the people spy on each other. For this spying they have the CDR's (CDR = Commitee para Defensar la Revolution).

Problem with chicks in Cuba is the police.
Prostitution is forbidden. Chicas who are seen with foreigners are registered. Three registrations and they end up in jail for a few years.
Most prostitutes that still can be found have relations with the police (pay money or pay with services).

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kernow62 says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:13:

Damn, I thought prostitution for the tourists was legal! Shows what I know. ;-)

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aztec says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:39:

If you have to ask please go to Cuba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:47:

They're both about the same but in my opinion Cuba is safer and the booze is a bit cheaper. And the men and women in Colombia are better looking than the Cubans.

Oh and food is WAY better in Colombia while the Beaches in CUBA are way nicer than the ones of Colombia.

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 14:55:

Now wait a minute Sylive, "They're both about the same"

Now tell me something Sylive, how do you know if the women in Cuba are the same as the Colombian women? Has your flotilla of vessels been venturing into Cubban waters too???

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 15:35:

Gomezman5 If you read carefully you can see that I said that Colombian men and women are better looking than the Cubans.

Yes I've been to Cuba 3 times. But I flew there simply for vacation purposes. :-)

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 15:42:

And Sylvie......you should know by now I was joking..............with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you keep this up, I will fly to Montreal and take over one of those ships and cruise all the way down the St.Lawrence into Lake Michigan, it will go until it gets to my back yard. (Lake Michigan is right behind my condo)

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 15:43:

Cuban Women There are a lot of super fine and beautiful Cuban women in Miami, New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Texas, California and Cuba. I should know I get around.

Peter Miami

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 15:56:

Peter, from the looks of it, you're quite the slut. I think you and elmo are the sluttiest guys on PBH forums. :-P

Gomezman5, good luck fitting the boat into your backyard. :-P

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 15:59:

Sylvie Where do you live? Have you travel in the United States?

Why do you call me a slut because I travel a lot? :-)

Peter Miami

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smx says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:04:

I agree with Peter Cuban women are very fine!

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:07:

Thanks SMX, that is why I want to know where is Sylvie from and what Cuban women she seen.

Peter Miami

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:07:

Peter When you said that you get around I thought you meant that "YOU GET AROUND"....like getting around into a lot of beds.

I've been to the states yes but I must say that the girls in Montreal are a lot prettier than them american girls regardless of nationality ;-)

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:12:

Sylvie I am single I have never been married, because I am not ready yet. I do go out dancing every weekend but I am not a slut. I am not a saint but I am lucky enough to not have to pay for prostitutes and I do not put them down because I do not judge people. If you have seen my previous post you’ll see I always stand up for women.

Peter Miami

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Oscar Armenia says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:15:

Cuban women are very hot!

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:31:

Sylvie...Montreal ladies prettier than US ladies?? Oi Vey How can you do this to me? Sylvie, go smuggle laptops into Colombia.
OK?

G5

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:51:

Sylvie Do not hide from us now. First G5 was joking around and you got serious. Now we can not find you. Come out, come out where ever you are?

Peter Miami

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 16:53:

G5, Sylvie called me a slut. Now she is hiding from us.

Peter Miami

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 17:25:

Sylvie......are you suggesting that PeterMiami is something less than an admirable man with honest intentions? Indeed, show your evidence to support such an assertion.

The Peter says occassionally he gets lucky. He is not married. He is not comitted to a woman at this time. Therefore, if he and another woman who may happen to mutually admire each other so choose enjoy each others company on something more than a platonic level, that in and of itself, is NOT indicative of the fact that Peter is a slut.

G5

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Miguel says on Aug 7, 2005, 17:58:

I Have A Question How can an American citizen LEGALLY travel to Cuba?

While I'm at it, Ibrahim Ferrer passed away yesterday in La Habana. Colombianos and gringos loved his music, and he will be missed.

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kernow62 says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:07:

1. Renounce your citizenship.

2. Hook up with Ry Cooder.

Would you want to go to Cuba with the anti-Castro sentiment in the USA? You would be scrutinized like you were a common criminal when you return.

My friend used to fly to Cuba via the Bahamas almost every other weekend, mostly whoring around. Since the 9/11 attacks he can't even go whoring like he used to. What is the world coming to.

Sometimes it is better not to be a USA citizen.

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:10:

Miguel People from Miami go all the time. There are a lot of ways of doing it. Some example are they have family there, for religious reasons through third countries and many more ways.

Peter Miami

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:14:

Sylvie What G5 my Counsel stated eloquently I am not a saint but I would not consider myself a slut.

Peter Miami
U.S.M.C.

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:19:

An American can travel legally to Cuba only with approval Americans, however need prior approval from the US Treasury Department's, Office of Foreign Asset Control. People commonly make the mistake of thinking that the need approval of the State Department. That is wrong. The reason they need approval of the Treasury Department is because it is that office that is vested with the responsibility of enforcing the limitations that are placed on Americans that prevent them from traveling to Cuba.

Technically, there is NO restriction on an Americans right to travel to Cuba. They just can't use any of their American assets (money include) once they get there.

In general,The only way you can get the appropriate approval or License to travel and therefore have the prohibiton waved, is that you have to show that your visit will be for cultural reasons. Ussually that requires affiliation with a univerity, or some other institution. There are religious licenses as well. There are also humanitarian exceptions. It is not an exact science in prediction who may or may not get approval

G5

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:22:

Well put G5 thanks for the classification.

Peter Miami

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Miguel says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:28:

Thanks G5/Kernow For the legal explanation. And Kernow, I think knowing Ry Cooder won't help, since the State Department told him they would arrest his ass if he went there to record Volume 2.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:29:

Hell, yeah, I would consider myself a slut. I'm a lesbian too. I'm a lesbian slut dog. Woof! Woof!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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tomtom33 says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:44:

Cuba sucks Spent two weeks there last year with a university group.

There is no comparison.

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hd0850 says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:46:

I enjoyed cuba a lot when I was there and they have beautiful women.

hugo

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:47:

Hey Utc Does your paisita know about this "statement against interest"?

G5

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Peter Miami says on Aug 7, 2005, 18:52:

G5 & UTC I do not think his paisita comes to this website, with statements like that or she would kick his a$$. :-)

Peter Miami

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 19:01:

Sometimes I show my wife some of the posts, including my own, on this site and she laughs. She thinks it's completely juvenile which it is. Repeat after me. This is not real life. This is just some stupid internet site for goofing around on.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 19:01:

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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jacobtafler says on Aug 7, 2005, 19:04:

peter maimi hello prter i belive that you travel alot i am too i was in cuba more than 30 times it was cheaper before not now today you get for 100 us dolars about 82 cuban pesos you go to night club in havana you pay 15 to go inside no girls will go with you from there lase than 80 pesos small room for rent in havana cost you 30 to 40 pesos and hotels 60 to 80 pesos dont forget the coban peso today is 18 perocent high than the us dolars it was pradise 5 and 7 yearsago belive me the cuban girls are nice i ageary with you but 99 perocent of this girls that tolk with tourist have cuba buy friend pimp what ever and it is easy for any american citezen to come there you can araive from cancon mexico or from toronto they dont stamp you passport they give you the stemp in small peopres i know many american that are there the cuban citezen have nothing about the americans only the cuban gaverment the only thing that it is much better in cuba that in colombia is the beaches there are very nice places in cuba but even now a days medelin is save as havana for me only colombia i am not colombian and all the country in sauth america are the some i only write from my travel experiance and it is over 22 years in sauth america but i still learen from some member of this furom

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sen says on Aug 7, 2005, 20:10:

Cuba or Colombia I was just once in Cuba, in Varadero. Very touristic, but I know that there are areas of Cuba where you can have more interactions with locals, as long as the government allows it.

I think the Cubans are trying hard to please tourists. I have seen waiters and other staff putting left over buns into separate bags. And I think they dont like us tourists filling our plates greedily and then throwing away.

I will be visiting Colombia beginning Aug 10, and then I will know about it.

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 21:44:

Peter Sorry I didn't respond I had to go to my friends barbeque party because he is leaving for Dubai soon....lucky bastard.

I was just joking about you being a slut because you said that "you've been around." Typically when someone says that "they've been around" it means that they've had a lot of "sexual encounters"

As for how I know what Cuban women look like....I've beenn there and in my honest opinion I don't find them that great looking. That's just my opinion. THe ones with Indian blood are attracitve but the rest I dont find that good looking.

G5, why would I bother smuggling laptops when I can use the space to smuggle handbags and jeans....and gold....and a few loose precious stones.....and coffee...and a bunch of other stuff I shouldn't be smuggling across the borders.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:08:

So when you go lesbo, Sylvie, it's not going to be with a Cubana? How about a hot Colombiana? Do you you wanna make a sandwich?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sylvie says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:10:

If I ever star eating taco instead of sausage then I'm pretty sure it wont be with a Cubana. But I would definately consider a Colombiana.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:13:

In that case it would be more like an arepa. Damm, you don't know what you're missing, Sylvie. Going down on a Colombiana is one of life's richest experiences. I recommend it at least twice maybe three to four times a day.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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el_rey_de_pollo says on Aug 7, 2005, 22:20:

Cuba is fun. here are some pics of some hot Cubanas

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quindioman says on Aug 8, 2005, 05:14:

lebianos y lesbianas.....where have I been...?
Te gustan las arepas Sylvie....?

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Sylvie says on Aug 8, 2005, 06:35:

No, I don't like the arepas. I just said that if I did like the arepas they wouldn't be Cuban arepas.

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quindioman says on Aug 8, 2005, 06:37:

no harm in a woman liking arepas...in fact if i were female i would be 100% arepera

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Peter Miami says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:03:

Sylvie You have never been to Miami right? This is full of beautiful Cuban women and women of Cuban origin born here in Miami. Let explain it to you very quickly because I do not have a lot of time. When Fidel Castro took over Cuban in 1959. Most of the Cuban that had money and were well off and so forth left Cuba and came to the United States. This happen 1959 to 1963, Castro let anybody that could pay for it to leave. All the richer, smarter and better looking people left to Miami and a couple of other areas New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc. What has been left in Cuba have been the blacks and poor. Cuba does not have Indians the Spanish killed them all, this is why most Cubans are very white. Slaves where brought in by the Spaniards and this is why there are some black Cubans that mostly stayed when Castro took over. I hope I explained this well enough for you but I wrote it quicker than I would have like and less detail than I wanted to give you.

Regards,

Peter Miami

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Blue says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:19:

Why is the choice these two? For a pure vacation play you surely can find better alternatives. But if it's women I'd say Colombia and if it's cigars you're interested in I'd choose Cuba.

Blue

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Sylvie says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:48:

Peter Miami I've been to Miami several times. My brother lives there.

Yes there are people of Indian blood in Cuba. NOT native Indian but Indian from India blood. Actually many islands in the Caribbean have East Indians (from India). Cuba has just a few, and of course not as many as Guyana and Trinidad have. My point anyway is that the East Indian girls are gorgeous.

I have also seen Cubanas in Miami. Now I'm not ignorant enough to generalize that rich Cubans are better looking than the poor ones because that is just pure stupidity and I'm shocked that you even said it. With that being said, regardless of wealth, I just don’t find Cuban women that attractive. Maybe I have higher standards or something.

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t25 says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:53:

"Cuba does not have Indians the Spanish killed them all"

well most indians either were killed or forced off the island, but not all, there are still a few tainos/arawaks in cuba, in the eastern half of the island.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:00:

Cuban beaches are spectacular I have been to San Andreas Island once and Cuba many times. I think the question should be more refined. How old are you grumpy and what are you really looking for? Are you going single? The beaches in Cuba are primo...beautifull white sand that is cleaned every day. Don't expect that in San Andreas..the beaches there were dirty and small compared to Cuba. Also the beaches in Cuba are topless and you have many woman tourists who love to go topless.

The food I found almost the same. I am talking about the food at the resorts..it was all bland. The women especially at the resorts in Cuba are drop dead georgious...I still find the cost for entertainment cheap. As mentioned above it costs $15 for the clubs, but remember you get all the free booze you can drink for this price. I enjoy Varadero when I vacation in Cuba. I love a good cuban cigar also.

My novia brought me some cigars from Colombia they were supposed to be Cuban but I think they were conterfeit. It is 99.9% safe to walk around in Cuba. I usually rent a scooter and go to other towns outside of Veradero. I have never had a problem and I am treated really well. I can get a lobster dinner with prawns, bottle of wine and Cohiba Esplendido cigar for $12. I walk down the main street in Varadero at night and hit all the bars. Beer is $1.25 each. I order a lovely bottle of dark rum..it costs me $8 (for the whole bottle).

In terms of going to Cuba if you are a US citizen...go to Mexico first..as mentioned above they do not stamp your passport..Cubans have no problems with individual US citizens..they hava a problem with the US government.

Prostitution is still alive and well in Cuba but it not out there "in your face". The people themselves are wonderfull. No gambling in Cuba, no casinos etc. Not many stores to shop in either. Anything designer you pay dearly for. This a communist country and average income is about $32 US a month! Tooth brushes and paste are given to the people but they are only allowed one tooth brush for 4 months and disposable razors maybe 1 a week.

It is very difficult to find a place to stay outside of the resort. It is not impossible but difficult. More and more homes are taking tourists in but much of this is illegal. I found that the Cuban people for the most part are very happy. At first I found this hard to believe as I was led to belief that if you lived under communist rule you would be very unhappy. Cubans are mostly very happy and friendly people.

What to bring to Cuba: perfume samples (they love that in Colombia also), pens, pencils, used barbie dolls - big hit in Cuba, razors, condems (condms in Cuba are very small--imported from China - big hit with the men). 'And tee shirts. I bring used tee shirts to Cuba mostly with Beer Advertising or Sports on them. I also bring hats. Never be afraid to take used clothing, baseball glovees ( they are passionate about baseball) etc. to Cuba. They appreciate all of this and will tell you so. I try and give things to people like the gardeners, people at the guard house, schools and people on the street. I walk down the main street with my knapsack full of goodies..I walk up to people who are sitting outside there homes and give them things..I usually take a couple of big bags of candy and colored pencils and crayons to the school.

I did that in San Andreas but the school was out for a few weeks. I ended up giving to parents who had children with them near our hotel.

The maids and other workers in Cuba are very honest and hard working. If something is missing from your room and you report it. The maid is immediately whisked off to jail. Make sure please that if you are missing anything you look very very hard for it, before reporting it.

On the resorts you can buy rum from the bar tenders for $4 a bottle. Bags of coffee is cheap too (not as good as Colombian coffee). A box of Cohiba Esplendidos between $25 and $35. Beware some are rolled with banana leaves! 99.9% are fake. 88% taste like donky crap. You really have to know someone well to get good counterfeit cigars.

Cohiba Esplendidos go for $1,400 a box in Canada. Don't think you can sell them on ebay because you cannot. They will give you a stiff warning if you try. Also, beware that 90% of the mom and pop smoke shops in Canada sell fake cigars brought back by tourists.

I did not say much about Colombia because I have only been there once. I should say that in Cuba if you are caught with 1 spliff...you go to jail. Cuba comes down on you heavy for any drugs. I always take my son with me and I always warm him about this danger ( he is a pot head lol). However, when we were in San Andreas everything went..I would often see my son smoking up in front of police and military there.

One night (San Andreas - Decameran - St Louis), in the bar (which was full) I noticed the police coming through. Young girls approached them to get their pictures taken. The police were very accommodating and friendly. It looked the police were actually hitting on the young women. You don't see this in Cuba. Cuban police are NOT friendly.

I should mention that there was alot of snorkling in San Andreas but this is the case also in Cuba. I don't which is better.

If you are seriously going to travel south, I would like to suggest you try both countries. Perhaps Cuba first as more people at the resorts (workers) can speak really good English. Most bartenders have a number of degrees some are often Engineers and so on. Best job in Cuba is a bartender at a resort! Remember though the further away from the bar you go the less they speak English. Also the pool at the resort I was at in San Andreas was like a postage stamp. It was really small. The pools in Cuba were quite large in comparison. Once Castro is gone and the US get's their Capilistic hands in there, Cuba will no longer be affordable for most of us. August, September and part of October are excellent months for travel to Cuba in terms of saving money.

I should also mention that the water at the resorts in Cuba is all purified. Castro makes sure his tourists are well cared for. I noticed bottle water being trucked in when I was in San Andreas. There was also an note above the sink saying not to drink the water.

Bottom line is that both San Andreas and Cuba have much to offer. For me, I have no desire to ever visit San Andreas again. I will always travel to Cuba. But from what I have learned in this room San Andreas is not a true picture of Colombia. I would guess that there are many places in Colombia that would put San Andreas to shame. I hope my novia never reads this, but for me San Andreas was a big dissapointment. My vacation there was absolutely wonderful though because both she and my son were with me.

Peter Miami noted that Cubans are mostly white? Or black? Sorry Peter you have me confused there. Anyway my take is that you will find a mixture there. I would say that you will find more white in Colombia than in Cuba. In terms of all the smarter and better looking Cuban leaving for the US don't believe Peter.

There are many beautiful Cubans still living in Cuba. I think there were alot of ugly rich Cubana who left for Cuba. Which leads me to my next question..Peter have you ever been to Cuba?

In terms of the educated leaving for the US, this may have been the case many many moons ago but not now. Don't think you are going to go to Cuba and you are going to talk to a bunch of baboons. The stardard of education (I am guessing) is much higher than the US. Cubans are very educated! Many have more than one degree and many have studied in Russia. I was also told that the Medical Department at their University is very good and that many students come from South America to study there. I cannot verify this, it is just something I heard. Also, many Cubans speak more than one language. Expect the bartenders and waitress staff at the resorts in Cuba to speak at least 5 languages. You won't find this in San Andreas Island.

Good luck with your trip

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:10:

Interesting post. Did you speak English with any of the native San Andreans? That's a hoot - you ought to hear them talk about Colombia. I also saw that you noticed smoking weed was tolerated - that was a huge debate about that here on the site. There were actually posters here who had claimed that they had never smelled mj in Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Colombiche says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:27:

Cuban Men Are handsome. I think Cubanos are the best looking men in Latin America by far. Way better than Argentinos. They have that tall, muscular mediterranean with a touch of black look. Has anybody ever seen a picture of Eddie Cibrian (Cubano-Americano). Hey girls (or guys), you have to see these pics of these cubanos:

http://hunks.punt.nl/upload/C/eddie_cibrian.gif
http://www.jurgita.com/models-id10510.html
http://www.safesearching.com/mattcedeno/calendar/index.shtml

If you could create a new country and populate it with Cuban men and Colombian women, you would have a country with disgustingly beautiful people.

Okay, that was my shallow comment for the day. Bye now.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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robhaynie says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:30:

Tourist friendly.....CUBA This place is catered to tourist!! Nightlife I also found is alot better in Havana than in most Colombian cities that i've been to(bgt, baq, mde, San Andreas) Also Cuban arch. is very cool....also havana makes you feel like you've just went back in time

In general Colombian chicks are better looking although the high end Cuban girls are just as good looking as the Colombians. Cubans i found to be rather behind...stuck in another decade...mentally, they way they dress, ect......Colombians are more modern.

But as it has been correctly pointed out..the hottest latin girls in the world do live in Miami.

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DayTripper says on Aug 8, 2005, 10:23:

Cuban chicas against Colombian chicas Can anybody tell me what the score is up to now in "Cuban chicas" against "Colombian chicas" ?

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tomtom33 says on Aug 8, 2005, 10:55:

Chicas If you want to subject the girl you are with to arrest at any time, go to Cuba. They are in mortal fear of being seen with any foreigner. Prostitution is illegal, and the law is enforced. Any Cubana with a foreigner is assumed to be a prostitute.

I rate Colombianas higher for many reasons.

By the way, I din't find Havana all that safe. Three people in my travel group were walking down the malecon, two females and one male in their 40s. It was around 8:00 pm. A snatch-and-grabber took one of the women's purses. A cop was less than a block away. They screamed at the cop. The cop did nothing.

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miamimike says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:18:

My Thoughts on Cuba Living in Miami I have ample oppurtunity to talk and visit Daily with Cubans from all walks of Life and income levels. Daily, I recieve a forced history lesson on the evils of contemporary Cuba. Do to 50% of my Neighbors being of Cuban Descent,its more like Osmosis for lack of a better term. Those Rich Whites that left Cuba in the late 50s&early 60s were the "Batista Cubans"; Fulgenico Batista was a Dictator(and not a nice guy-read history) though at times in Miami he is referred to as some sort of Hero. His Grandson, Diaz-Balart is a Congressman who resides in Miami. His family hated to see Batista go-no more Casinos and monopolies on the Sugar Plantations. The Good Life for these folks was no MORE under Fidel. The reason those 1000s of Mulattos and Blacks like Fidel is that under him, they were offered Land, Healthcare and Free University Educations. That never occurred and probably never would have under the old regime of Batista. Now in Cuba, you see many Professional Blacks in the Medical ,Legal,Accounting and teaching profession. Its not that these Folks were "Stupid"; it was a matter of Fact they were never offered the oppurtunity of an Education due to their SKIN COLOR. A few of these Castro Blacks have made it to Miami and if asked, they will tell you the reason they are here is to earn a better living. In the same breath they will tell you "No tengo una problema con Fidel"-he sent me to school, gave me health care ect. BTW, On health Care, Infant Mortality is lower in Cuba then here in the States-source: New England Journal of Medicine. Better PreNatal Care there is the Reason. As they say, Figures don't lie but Liars Figure:).

One of the reasons Fidel was able to assume power in the late 50s was that OUR American Mafia controlled Havana-the Mafia, with Batista's Blessing, weekly transferred Millions of $$$ out of Havana to Miami and NYC. About that time,Fidel happened by and with Inequities such as the Casino Scam, was able to garner support rather easily with the populace and overthrow Batista. Castro asked President Eisenhower and VP Nixon for Financial help in the 50s but was turned down.Bad Mistake on our part.We only have to look at what has transpired since 1960 to see what a HUGE error that was. As Evidence of that error I remind you of the Cuban(russian) Missile Crisis when we almost had a Nuclear Situation...The Cuban Peso at that time traded on Parity with the USD--1:1. Ugly, Classless Cuban Women in Miami?????????--try Brickell or Coral Gables-many frequent these areas and they are extremely sensual. A guy has NOT lived to he has Experienced a Cubana sexually. My 2Cents!

Ps-the US Government should let US Citizens Travel to Cuba. Get rid of that antiquated Travel Ban. Americans can get a VISA for travel to COMMUNIST China and VietNam. BTW, my Governemnt(usa) tells me the ONLY reason I cannot recieve a Travel Visa to Cuba is because its a Communist's island nation. We do Business with these two Communist Regimes(why) so why can't we get a Visa to travel to Cuba and experience with our own senses what the "Real Deal" in Cuba currently is??; I need no Pointy Headed washington(OR MIAMI)Politician telling me what is dangerous and what isn't. Had I listened to the bad avice from these same people, I never would have traveled to Colombia either! Not to portray Cuba today as some Paradise but many times the contrast is not written when people(especially in Miami) describe Cuba. As Paul Harvey says, "The Whole Story Please"...

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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DayTripper says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:34:

More thoughts on Cuba Maimimike I agree with you that a lot of US-governments didn't handle Castro that smart. But you must not forget that Cuba is a police state.
No one in Cuba can make an honest live without starving to death.
Everybody has to do illegal things. And the Cuban authorities do exactly know what illegal things everybody is doing to survive. If they feel like it they will use the things they know about you against you. And then they are very hard. For instance taking away houses from people that have rented illegal to foreigners. Or putting women in jail for serveral years that have been seen with foreigners. They have no mercy.
I have to agree with Tomtom that in Havana there is the possibility of being robbed. Not as save as everybody thinks. Although I have walked the city on many occasions in the the darkest hours of the night (3:00 AM). Mostly felt save then.

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:43:

I Have to agree with every word Miamimike said One exception...but a minor one. Paul Harvey said:
"And Now, the Rest of the Story"

But aside from that minor quote, item by item, Mike pretty much summarizes the picture of how we (the US) were instrumental in making Fidel the dictator that he is today. when we turned down his request for financial assistance, he went to Russia (oldd USSR) and they gladly assisted him. Hence, the alliance between those two nations grew stronger by the day. There almost assuredly would not have been any Cuban missle crisis if we would have provided the aide Fidel sought. I recognize that hind site is perfect however. I think that today we would have responded differently. As Mike points out, we (the US) it is the height of hypocracy to be having the "normalized" relations that we are having with China, in light of the following: 1. They are as much or even more of a facist state as Cuba 2. They recently, and may still indeed have, known spied in our country who have stolen military secrets. 3China has done little to improove its record on human rights, 4 uses cheap Chinese labor to benefit a few individuals that are obviously members of Chinese communist party, the very party that continues to be a threat to US interest. You can be sure that when China makes it's play to reclaim Taiwan, the US will pay lip service by demonstrating its displeasure, but in the end, there will be no attempts to expel China.

Yea, it's called a double standard. What threat is Cuba to the US? At the same time, how much money do American corperations have invested in China? There is your answer. The more we get involved with China from an economic perspective, the more we willl let China do as she pleases. As to Cuba, both parties in this country continue to pursue that ever present cuban vote in South Florida, and neither party is willing to upset the apple cart for fear of permanently alienating that constituency.

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miamimike says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:47:

China is a Police State Also... and it is the World's Largest Communist Nation. Freedom of expression and Speech in China..How about those Tanks in Tinnamen Square when all those University Students were slaughtered?? If we can't go to Communist(?) Cuba as the Politicians call it(I think its a socialist state) but I will call it the same thing our current president(and his supporters here in miami) calls it-Communistic,. WHY are we able to procure Travel Visas to China and VietNam. Why do we conduct MegaBusiness with these Communist Countries as they are referred to in Washington?????

I have rarely hear of Tourists in Cuba being robbed, mugged in Cuba from my neighbors, one of who weekly is going there for a Visit.Cuba is probably the worst place for a robber/street thug--let one be caught robbing a Tourist who brings hard currency to the Island and that will be his last heist-not like here in Miami where they are released in a few hours to jack another tourist up alongside the head. jaja

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miamimike says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:55:

Thank You Gomezman; You evidently are in agreement with the comment on the Cuban Woman also--very HOT(juana la cubana) -jajaja--

Hey if any of you guys want Good Cigars and you visit Miami-Go to Flagler St.(in the daylight hours)in the little havana neighborhood and visit the Tobaccolero se llama "La Gloria Cubana" It is a great Cigar--# 50 ring. Mike's Cigars over in Bal Harbor on Main Street(125 st)located in a converted bank building has a tremendous selection! And a Smoke room for testing!Not Cheap but offers are huge.

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kernow62 says on Aug 8, 2005, 12:39:

Very sensible posts on the situation in Cuba and I agree 100%.

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kernow62 says on Aug 8, 2005, 12:44:

Damn Miguel I didn't know that the government had threatened Ry Cooder, that sucks big time. I just picked up another CD of his with Cuban guitar great Manuel Galban, at first listen I didn't like it, but it grew on me the more I listened, it has a cool retro sound to it.

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 8, 2005, 12:54:

Mike.....I am definitely in agreement The Cubanitas are .... quite nice. But they are a bit too hot for my taste, literally and figuratively. Their tempers can be quite short.

Mike there used to be a fine Cigar shop on 41st st in MB. Here in Chicago, I'm buying all these cigars from the couple of shops I go to.
Most of them come from either Honduras or the Dominican Republic. I keep spending between 5-6 dollars a cigar. I will never pay more because there is not much difference between a $10 smoke and a $5 smoke, the wrap may be different, but as long as they are properly stored, all premium cigars are good.

I don't smoke much though because I understand the threat of cancer of the throat and mouth is very real, even if you don't inhale them.

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kernow62 says on Aug 8, 2005, 13:16:

Not to mention the danger when the smoke goes into your eyes when you are racing as happened to yours truly once. I gave up cigars and sold my race car!!!

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miamimike says on Aug 8, 2005, 13:59:

Gomezman-yea those Cubanitas are Hot.. It doesn't suffice to say they are hot-their Blood is simply Boiling! I prefer the Cubanas around 40 or so-"They don't tell, They don't Swell and are as glad as Hell"!

On those Gloria Cubanas Cigars they run around $2.50 to $3.25 depending on size-the torpedo types around 6-8 inches and in a # 50 run between the above prices.And they are good! No seeds/filler and the ash burns consistently a grey/white.Those Arturo Puentes from the DR are pretty fair Cigars also-not cheap but good. The Seed is originally from Cuba they say.

Jim-yes that Cigar smoke doesn't do anything for the Vision. How does that Song go.. "When Smoke gets in your eyes"....

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suipacha says on Aug 8, 2005, 15:18:

Pretty interesting debate. I'm 1/2 Cuban and 1/2 Colombian, born and raised in Miami. I've been to Colombia but not Cuba. One thing I can say is that in Miami the Cuban and Colombian women are hot on just about an equal level. The one thing I can say about Cuban girls is that they don't age as well as Colombianas, but a 16-30 they are just as good if not better looking as any Colombiana. And don't even get me started on Cuban food and culture. Anywhere in the world you go you'll find a Cuban restaurant or salsa joint. It doesn't really make much difference to me since my dad is from the coast where they share alot of the Carribean culture.

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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tomtom33 says on Aug 8, 2005, 17:06:

Cuban food might be great in Miami. In Cuba it is not. And it can be lethal.

It rather amazes me that people blame the US for the embargo. Try blaming the Cuban ex-pats. It has nothing to do with communism.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 8, 2005, 20:02:

please no USA please no USA please no USA I never want to see the US in Cuba. Sorry but Cuba is unique as it is. A little would be nice but Cuba is really like going back to the 50's. The US would definately destroy the Cuba I have grown to love. Sorry if I stepped on any toes here.

I don't doubt crime still exist in Cuba but I would argue that it is not usual or common place. And, Miami Mike I have been smoking good Cuban cigars for years and have not been able to find any other cigar to replace them. I have tried to do this and save money. But I have not been succesfull. My cigar of choice is a Monte Crist #4. Oh and I enjoy Cohiba Robustos when in Cuba. I have had the wonderful experience of touring a few of the factories in Cuba. Had the rollers come out from theor desks and actually sell me cigars. I was in heaven. Problem was some of these cigars were actually conterfeit. Good gig if you can get it..give out a few legit cigars to you buddies and many counterfeit cigars in return. And, sell them to the gringo tourists lol.

I am on their "hit" list in Cuba for trying to take out too many cigars lol. They automatically go through all my luggage with a fine tooth comb. lol.

You are only allowed 50 cigars to take out of Cuba. What I finally ended up doing is buying all my cigars at the duty free (after Cuban customs). You only have to deal with Canadian customs who don't seem to care that much. Anything to declare? No. Ok.

Monte Cristos #4 are about $139.00 CCP which happens to be equal to the US dollar. That is the Cuban Convertable Peso...the tourist peso!
You will pay over $400 Canadian for the same cigars here in Canada. So you save about $200. If you smoke 1 cigar a day like me you can save quite a bit in a year. One Monte #4 in Canada is $20.

I have bought many Cohiba Robusto and Cohiba Esplendidos in Cuba and smoked and sold them. Some through ebay..tricky...becaue ebay is US and you cannot buy Cuban cigars in the US. Miami Mike may disagree but not legitimately you cannot do it. Also 99% of the Cuban cigars they sell in Miami are fake. Of course I cannot prove this. I sold some cigars to a guy who lives in California right next to the state capital building. He always smokes his Cohibas in a park that is next to the Capital Bldg. One night he met a very impportant person walking through the park. They shared a similar interest in cigars. Later that week he went to the State Building and was welcomed by this person. My friend gave him one beautiful Cohiba Esplendido to smoke. There was a very well known Sports person in the room at the time. He really wanted one of these cigars so my friend returned to home for another cigar. I sold cigars to my friend for quite awhile and another time I sent 1/2 dozen Montes to him for his friend.

Just a little story I thought I would share...

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miamimike says on Aug 8, 2005, 20:49:

The Embargo in the 60s was meant to be a temporary blockade and it was the doing of our goverment.That said,TomTom, for the last 30 years or so it has been the expats as you claim, pressuring their elected Officials. Listening to his Cuban Voting Bloc in Miami and Union CityNJ, Current Prez Bush really tightened up the Law as far as Cuban Americans visiting Cuba, sending money home(to whom and how much) and in the end, it will NOT Hasten the demise of Fidel Castro. Its all for naught. In Miami, Jorge Mas Canosa, deceased and ex-president of the CANF(cuban american national foundation) was responsable for much of this foolishness about Americans not being able to travel to Cuba. It serves no purpose, especially that claim about the reason we cannot go is because its a Communist Nation. That being the case, do away with tourist visas for North Vietnam and China.Then all the current thinking will be in a straight line; it is NOT currently--very skewered the logic behind it!

Franko-really those Cigars rolled here in Miami called La Gloria Cubana are worth taking a look at.Not too bad price wise by today's prices.They are on Flagler street. Watch Out for the other attractions if its after Dark- like to roll things/people also.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 8, 2005, 21:27:

Esta no es salsa chica es MUSICA CUBANA!

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Miguel says on Aug 9, 2005, 02:54:

kernow You can search the BBC and find articles related to Ry Cooder's visa problems.

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morphus says on Aug 9, 2005, 05:48:

Cuba has a better nightlife and daylife than Colombia. it does'nt make economic sense for most Cubans to work. thats why there are always people partying every day and night of the week. theres a saying in Cuba that goes something like "the government pretends to pay me so i pretend to work". a lot of Cubans hang around tourists. they can make more money hustling in the street than working 12 hours a day for Fidel.
Cubans are the most open people about sex. one example is when Elian Gonzales grandmother came to see him in Florida. she made him show her his penis to see how big it got. Cuban girls/women are so easy it goes against nature. sex is gauranteed on the first date no matter what type of girl you are with. once you hook up thats it. you get laid the first day. even if the girl does'nt have much experience. unlike Colombian women who sometimes have hang ups about sex.
the police suppression has gotten out of hand in the past couple of years in Cuba. when things start to get out of control, Fidel closes down the cities to punish the Cubans. its no fun when you are in the middle of partying and the police come with dump trucks and school buses to haul everybody to jail or back to their provinces.

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quindioman says on Aug 9, 2005, 05:52:

did she ask to see his chiquito as well...?

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 08:04:

FYI its not just the rich Cubans who emigrated from Cuba. Yes, they were the first ones but see Mariele Boatlift and Operation Pedro Pan (where Cubans stayed behind and sent their children to the US) These were poor average Cubans that came over to make a life for themselves. And don't forget we are the most financially and politically successful Latin American minority in the US too!

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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Lostgringo says on Aug 9, 2005, 08:19:

Cuba Miami Mike thanks for the info on those cigars but I don't think I will ever be in Miami...not unless my novia and I travel there..and I doubt that. Say what happened to Grumpy the poster here. lol. I personally tnink IMHO that if you do not see Cuba as it is now you are missing something very specail. Cuba at present is "lost in time". You have to see it to understand what I am talking about. I tried bringing in a DVD player to Cuba and it was confiscated at the Airport. Castro does not allow DVDs into the coutnry. VHS is ok though...where is the logic here? Don't look for toilet seats outside of your resort. And you have to carry toilet paper with you also when off the resort. They charge you for using their bathrooms there.

While on this subject, why is it that Colombians do not flush toilet paper? I find this very strange. They drop in a a little waste pail instead of flushing? Do they all do this or is just my novia and a few others?

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kernow62 says on Aug 9, 2005, 09:44:

Ry Cooder ban Thanks Migue

Ry Cooder ban

Thanks Miguel. Well he won't have the chance to play with Ferrer again.

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 09:48:

Franko44 They sell those Thru the Mail and 'Net I know that JD Thompson Cigar Company sells Mailorder and also have a website. Beleive they are located in/near Ybor city in Tampa. They have a couple places there also(in ybor city) that hand-roll cigars.What a Cigar History that place has(ybor city) but try those gloria cubanas if you can-guarenteed you won't regret it-Like a Colombian woman right? JAJA!

On the toilet paper I have no idea-that is a first as I thought Colombians were like us-they flush it down the Tubes! Now if you want to talk about the Haitians-Yea they do that Bigtime. One CVS Pharmacy I was in just Saturday grossed me out Big Time-needed to take a leak and as I walked over to the Urinal in the Men's Room (someone a Haitian Kid who had come running out just as I was going in) had crapped in the Urinal-a big brown turd laying where ya pee-AHhhhhhhhh!!! I see this in Miami a lot where the Haitians live!!!!!! Elmo needs to handle this one-he is the resident expert on this turd business! Elmo, tell us why people dispose their toilet paper where they shouldn't and why do these haitans dump like this in the Urinals????? Please!

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 09:59:

It's because the plumbing in these countries cannot handle large amounts of toilet paper and becomes clogged. I guess when people come to the states they have the habit of using wastepaper baskets which is nasty in my opinion since you have shit stained paper just sitting in the toilet next to you... but such is life.

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:05:

Suipacha-you are correct on "Cubans are the Most Sucessful financially and strongest politically. The Cubans also were (and still are) extended many benefits that others like Colombians, Mexicans, Haitians never received. And will never receive.Things such as SSI benefits(without ever paying into our SS system), temporary health insurance, housing assisitance, college tuition benefits and Residency in One Year, One Day for many Cubans(fast track residency). One wonders that if others received the same Helping Hand if they to wouldn't have been just as sucessful? I see this in Ponce and San Juan Puerto Rico also. They Cubans really are sucessful there .Same for Union City,. NJ also. They have done well if money,ect are used as criteria for sucess.Politicaaly, due to their Huge Population Numbers and good organization they are a Potent Force. Look at our Cuban Immigration and Visa Policy here in the USA-its controlled by the Cuban Politicians here in Miami(Martinez, Diaz Balart and ros-lehten).What other Nationality group controls US Immigration Policy?

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:13:

Franko "Also 99% of the Cuban cigars they sell in Miami are fake."

Franko's statement above is right on the money. Apart from buy the cigars in Cuba itself (which in and of itself poses problems if you are American), anyone who buys a cigar that is allegedly cuban made, is a fool.

First, with all the fine cigars coming out of the Dominican Republic, and Honduras, there is no way even the most seasoned cigar smoker is going to know the difference between a cuban cigar, and one from one of those other countries mentioned.

It is so easy for people to simply print up wraps of Cohiba or Monte Cristo, and then replace the the wrap that will instandtly take a 5-10 cigar and turn it into a cigar of up to 5 to 10 times the price. In Miami it is done all the time.

My next question is Why? Why would anyone want to take the chance of spending an absurd amount of money for a smoke, when you can get very fine cigars for reasonable prices in the first place. And not all fine cigars have to have a latin name. Punch and Nat Sherman make excellent smokes. However, they are not cheap either

G5

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:20:

"The Cubans also were (and still are) extended many benefits that others like Colombians, Mexicans, Haitians never received. And will never receive.Things such as SSI benefits(without ever paying into our SS system), temporary health insurance, housing assisitance, college tuition benefits and Residency in One Year, One Day for many Cubans(fast track residency). One wonders that if others received the same Helping Hand if they to wouldn't have been just as sucessful?"

Then explain Puerto Ricans. There are more of them and they all have full US citizenship. There are more than twice as many of them living in the US too. Cubans on the other hand only make up 3.7 of the ENTIRE hispanic population of the US yet possess a disproportionate amount of wealth and power in the US; Cubans are even denied affirmative action at most universities b/c they are generally well off while on the other hand PRs receive more affirmative action than any other group except blacks. WTF?

Here is my source

http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-545.pdf

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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Miguel says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:31:

Duh Puerto Rico is US territory.

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Miguel says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:39:

Hey kernow You need to shoot off a message to BBC and bust their balls on the typo underneath Ferrer's photo. The whole story of Ry Cooder going to Cuba to record African musicians who could not get to Havana was the ultimate stroke of fate. He was getting ready to go back to LA and while waiting, stumbled upon the legacy of those old Cuban cats and decided to stay and investigate. Thank God. In my last four trips to Colombia, I have never been in a music club that did not show the video of "Buena Vista Social Club". Be aware that repeated listening to "En El Cuarto De Tula" might cause permanent brain damage.

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:40:

Exactly so they cannot be factored into the Conversation since PR has commonwealth status and the Ricans are US Citizens by birth.

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:42:

I know that but last time I was in Puerto Rican everyone spoke to me in Spanish.

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:46:

Wait why not? Are you saying Puerto Ricans are not hispanics living in the US? Are you saying they are not Latin American minorities in this country? My point is that granted, Cubans have had special advantages but Puerto Ricans occupy an even more advantageous position and they are not even half as successful once they reach the STATES of the United States of America. Puerto Ricans are generally not even successful as successful as Colombians in the US.

Oh yeah and don't even mention Bacardi b/c they were a Cuban operation before they moved their distillery to PR.

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:59:

Suipacha-was talking about the fact that if the same benefits were extended to Colombians, Mexicans ect might they be just as sucessful as the Cubans? Lets face it-when you are handed all these advantages you are a few hands up on the competition.I won't get into the Puerto Rico/Cuban Competition thing-I know the cubans and Puerto ricans do not mix and that there is animosity between these two Latin Groups. They really get into some Big Time arguements but I won't as I don't understand the root cause of each other's anger. I was referring to Immigrants only and PR's don't fit into the mix. That would be an interesting subject if you ever start a thread it will light up the Board and that is guarenteed. jaja. I always joke with some of the Puerto Ricans here in Miami living in Wynwood(where many PRs live in miami)as to when are they moving to Hialeah and they always answer "Never--too many Cubans living there" haha. Mostly in Miami-the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans live pretty peacefully in the same neighborhoods but not many Cubans are found there. Too many Chickens! (but the cubans keep chickens in hialeah also)haha

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 11:04:

Dude you sidestepped the issue. The fact is many Puerto Ricans are indistinguishable from other Latin American immigrants i.e. don't speak english have a different culture. I don't think anyone would argue that PR isn't a part of Latin America.

"face it-when you are handed all these advantages you are a few hands up on the competition"

Wouldn't it follow from YOUR premise that because PRs have been handed even bigger advantages they should be even further up on the competition? BTW you might want to tell the US Census board that PRs are not considered hispanic minorites...

http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-545.pdf

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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Miguel says on Aug 9, 2005, 11:06:

Suipacha Give us a break. The Puerto Ricans can come here on demand. The Colombianos have to jump hoops after paying a c-note just to apply. I have nothing but respect for Cubans, but I do have a problem with them dictating their Republican agenda that makes it so difficult for my friends and my girlfriend to be able to come to the US.

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 11:14:

Suipacha I understand your point and am not saying that Puerto Ricans are not part of Latin America nor that they are not Hispanic Minorities. I limited my post to the fact that wouldn't Colombians, mexicans ect be as sucessful as Cubans if they didn't have some of these same benefits extended the Cubans? I have seen no Medical studies where Cubans are proven to be inately more intelligent then Colombians,Chilenos, Mexicans ect. I don't even see a close competition; least not here in Miami.It would take decades for these other Nationalities to catch up to the Cubans if for nothing else then FAst Track Residency extended to many Cubans not extended to the other Latin Immigrant groups. The only Fast Track Deal others have in Miami is Fast Track Deportation!

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 11:51:

Actually I think you're wrong even there. Since large parts of Mexico were ceded to the US in 1848 there have been huge amounts of naturalized or native born Mexicans in the US and many more than Cubans. I am not giving any reasons why this is the case; just giving a description of the current status quo which even you have admitted to. Its like trying to explain why Jews in the US have such high levels of wealth and education compared to other groups. There are many possible explanations.

One thing I think that Jews and Cubans have in common is that they are very cohesive i.e. they help each other out wherever they go. Me and some of my friends have a saying that being Cuban means you belong to the best club in the world because anywhere on the planet that a Cuban meets a compatriot he will give him the shirt off his back. I have relatives that have shown up in Miami fresh off the boat w/ nothing but the shirt on their back. Everybody pitches in, even remote relatives and acquaintances and within a few weeks these people have places to stay, clothing, shoes and a job.

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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Colombiche says on Aug 9, 2005, 12:44:

Suipacha Has a point Cubans are very cohesive. That is not the case with other latin minorities. The are overall more successful than other latin American groups. Let's use the Mexicans as an example... because they have been around longer. Wouldn't you say that Mexican Americans who have been around for more than 3 or 4 generations should be more successful by now? Just a question.

He also has a very good point regarding Puerto Ricans. I don't mean to offend anybody (please don't get offended), but how come, being US citizens, having all the advantages, being overall more bilingual than recent arrivals from South America, they are still the poorest group of Latinos and the ones (out of all Latinos) that have the highest percentage of welfare recipients as part of their overall population?

I don't want to spark up any controversy, I just wish somebody would come up with a good answer to my question because so far, I can see miami mike has come up with some good counter-arguments, but I still think suipacha is on to something.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 13:30:

I'll stick to my Original Posting concerning Immigrant Groups I fail to understand how Purto Ricans can even be considered as they have Citizenship. And we are talking about Immigrants!!! I am saying and all things being Equal,extend the same Benefits to Colombians, Chilenos,ect. as to the Many Benefits the Cubans receive from Day One and I see no reason they would not be as Sucessful as any Cuban. Cubans are not any more intelligent(inate) or more industrius then Colombians, Mexicans, Chilenos ect. If one claims this I would really like the Specific Studies supporting this claim. BTW-extend the "Wet Foot Dry Foot Law" to ALL nationalities and see how many Immigrants start showing up here in Florida and elsewhere! All a Cuban has to do is put his/her toe on US Soil and they are home-free.This Law needs to be stricken from the Books! Or extend it to all Countries with a Communist Government and that includes CHINA, VietNam and North Korea. That would equitable and acceptable. Why is the Wet Foot Law extended only to Cubans???

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kernow62 says on Aug 9, 2005, 14:27:

I think one of the reasons the Mexicans in the US are less succesful is the vast majority were not very well educated and from poorer backgrounds, those with money stay in Mexico. That was not the case with Cubans. The other thing is that Mexicans are very mobile, they travel light because they might return to Mexico at any moment either because of deportation or by their own choosing, hence they do not put down community roots to quite the extent of other immigrant groups. They don't have time to go to college and better themselves, they are busy working to send money home to families in Mexico. Let me tell you though they are very close, and a Mexican will certainly help his fellows, just as the Cubans do. I know plenty of white Cubans who wouldn't give the time of day to a black Cuban though. Now Colombians, they tend not to stick together too much, and if they do it is still among regional and class lines that they did in Colombia.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 14:34:

I agree with you, Kernow. I observe the same differences.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 14:52:

Jim and UC--Ditto I would agree with this rationale.That Part about the Black Cuban is spot on.Many Black Cubans that I met during my employment at the Krome Detention Center in south west miami uttered the same. The Black Cubans here all told(and tell me) me that they will not live in Kendall, Little Havana or Hialeah. They head to Miami Beach as they(not me) stated Racism from their fellow Cubans as the reason they chose Miami Beach. I mean if you drive around in these traditional Cuban Neighborhoods and talk to the people that fact is true-rarely will you see a black cuban in these neighborhoods. One of the Few I knew was Kid Chocolate, the famous cuban boxing champ. He was living in an ALF (adult living facility) located on 10th st & west 2ave. in Hialeah.He died Penniless and practically by himself.Sad. Seems like the Mexicans in Ca are getting better organized and they are starting to gain representation in Congress.

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suipacha says on Aug 9, 2005, 15:04:

Name one Latin American country that doesn't discriminate on the basis of skin color. Its not fair to pin this solely on Cubans. Yes there is some discrimination but its not a uniquely Cuban phenomenom. And all that talk about how only white Cubans have problems w/ Castro is bull. If everyone still living in Cuba thinks Castro is so great why hasn't he held an election?

"A single sentence will suffice for modern man: he fornicated and read the papers"

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 15:43:

Cuban Elections? Why not ask the residents in Cuba? If they were so disatisfied I think they would have stayed and revolted and tossed hi