Join in 7 seconds.. Existing users: sign in.

all forums, active | friendly talkzone, travel tips, visa & paperwork, renting, selling & meetups, politics & the war, espanol

Colombia pushes international tourism

From CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/01/colombia.tourism.reut/index.html

Colombia pushes international tourism

Monday, August 1, 2005; Posted: 7:49 p.m. EDT (23:49 GMT)

BOGOTA, Colombia (Reuters) -- To hear Colombia's minister of tourism tell it, conditions are ripe for a major push to attract foreign tourists to a country better known for drugs, wars and kidnapping than for its beaches, mountains and virgin forests.

Things are looking up in Colombia, according to Jorge Humberto Botero, who also holds the commerce and trade portfolios in the government of President Alvaro Uribe.

After the success of what he termed Phase I in tourism development, now is the time to move to Phase II.

Phase I was meant to boost domestic tourism and featured "touristic caravans," or convoys of dozens of cars escorted by 120-strong contingents of police and military, bristling with assault rifles and machine guns along roads considered unsafe because of guerrilla activity.

Most of the roads to vacation spots are safe, Botero said, the result of a series of offensives since Uribe took power in 2002, which pushed the guerrillas back from towns and cities.

"Now the conditions are in place to make a big effort to attract foreign tourists," Botero said. "We have beach resorts on the Caribbean, we have virgin jungle in the Amazon and along the Pacific, we have high mountains in the Andes," he said in a recent interview.

What Colombia does not have is an image that might persuade foreigners to visit Latin America's fourth-largest country and one of its most ecologically and geographically diverse.

Guidebooks invariably refer to Colombia as a land of myths and magic. They rarely fail to mention that it spawned Gabriel Garcia Marquez's novel "One Hundred Years of Solitude," the masterpiece of a literary genre known as magic realism.

Colombia has a lot of catching up to do. Government figures show that it had just over 1.7 million visitors in 2003. Mexico, in comparison, attracts around 19 million tourists a year and France 80 million.

Holding back foreign visitors are fears for their safety because of a war which is now in its 42nd year and involves the armed forces, two left-wing guerrilla groups, right-wing paramilitary forces, several private armies and the peasants who grow coca leaf and opium poppy, the plants from which cocaine and heroin are made.

Dark image
That has all conspired to give the country a dark image. But, said Botero, "All the figures show that we have made notable advances in improving security. Even the U.S. government's travel warning reflects that."

He was referring to U.S. Department of State advisories about countries it considers dangerous. The latest on Colombia, in May, said "violence by narcoterrorist groups and other criminal elements continues to affect all parts of the country, urban and rural. No one can be considered immune on the basis of occupation, nationality or any other factor."

The warning, however, also noted that violence had decreased markedly in the cities of Bogota, Medellin, Barranquilla and Cartagena. "They (the U.S.) modified the warning in a positive sense," said Botero, referring to a previous blanket recommendation not to go to Colombia at all.

The government takes pride in statistics which show that murders have declined by 34 per cent and kidnappings by 56 per cent since 2002. According to international figures, that still leaves Colombia at the top of the world league for kidnappings and near the top for murders.

But safety for tourists is relative. Without using the words tsunami or bomb attack, Botero said Colombia might benefit from the fears inspired by the devastating Indian Ocean floods which killed more than 170,000 people last Christmas and the coordinated blasts last month in the London subway and bus system which killed 50.

So far, Colombia has done little to portray itself as a tourist destination. At least in the United States, Juan Valdez, the mustachioed farmer in commercials for Colombian coffee, is better known than Cartagena, the historic Caribbean port city on the U.N.'s list of world heritage sites.

Botero described the tourism ministry's promotion budget as "small and utterly insufficient." Hotels and restaurants are supposed to make compulsory contributions to a fund for advertising, but the minister admitted that this had not been properly enforced.

Botero said airlines and companies running toll roads leading to tourist destinations should also pay into the fund.

"Colombia can't even put up a good stand at an international tourism fair," he said. "If we want foreign tourists to come, we need to increase tourism promotion."

The government places its hopes for increased tourism on Latin America and Europe, particularly Spain, the leading foreign investor in Colombia. Botero is sure that once Colombia and the United States sign a free trade agreement, more U.S. business executives will visit to conclude deals.

"It will be relatively easy to turn these business travelers into tourists," he said.

By Hawaii-73 on Aug 1, 2005, 17:11 in Friendly Talkzone.

Lucia Rojas says on Aug 1, 2005, 17:57:

As long as they dont leave all their garbage behind. Leticia for example is growing in infrastructure and a huge decameron hotel has recently been built there. The problem is that Leticia doesn't have a way of dealing with any more trash... the basurero is abosrbong the town... and polluting the rivers.. If things are planned properly then it should work. The problem is that normally, thing aren't really planned well in colombia. If not ask all the Bogotanos who have to deal with the Transmilenio streets being fixed only after 2 years because nobody thought about the desagues...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 1, 2005, 19:08:

Agree with you Lucia I agree with that. I'd love to see tourism bring more dollars or euros or whatever to Colombia, but having seen how Colombia plans for tourism (San Andres, El Rodadero, Bocagrande....) I can't say I'm optimistic for it being well executed. The biggest attractions I can see that Colombia has are the terrific ecotourism opportunities, which are easy to spoil with bad planning. And for that to be viable I think the conflict needs to be dialed WAY back. All it takes is another backpacker kidnapping and it really cuts back on tourism.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andy-NY says on Aug 1, 2005, 19:50:

I think right now is the best time to............. I posted a new category with the same info, but I think it fits here:

I think right now is the best time to invest in property in Colombia. Look at what happened to Costa Rica in the past five years. The same thing is happening now in Panama City. Prices are absurd in most of the U.S. including most of Florida (which only 5 years ago was still relatively cheap) and people are looking to buy property in Central and South America where it's still affordable.

A major event in world population demographics will take place over the next 15 years; "The Retirement Wave" or "Boomer Wave." This market is comprised of the growing number of baby boomers reaching retirement age around the world. It mostly includes people born between 1946 and 1964 and represents 77 million people in the U.S. alone. Many of these people will seek out a comfortable retirement lifestyle in a warmer climate.

It's obvious to me that those who invest now at this early stage will likely make huge percentages on their money similiar to those that purchased in Costa Rica 10 years ago. I'm visiting Medellin on Wednesday and I'll be sure to keep my eye open for good deals.

Andrew-NY

Andrew-NY

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lucia Rojas says on Aug 1, 2005, 19:59:

Have a Good trip AndyNY Enjoy your time in medellin. I'm sure you will find a lot of other good reasons to invest in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 1, 2005, 20:45:

How can the baby boomers retire? They don't have any money. Their parents are living longer than ever and their kids are staying home longer than ever. Getting it front and back, I don't see how they can retire to a life of leisure. Not that I want that anyway - make the sons of bitches work!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 1, 2005, 23:14:

You mean... ... I won't be able to retire on my Enron and Worldcom stock? Damn!

I think Colombian investment is still way out there in the speculation/gamble stage. While things are improving in some ways, there are still lots of destabilizing factors. The economy could go either way.

Costa Rica has had a resonably stable government and economy for many years while Colombia is still waging the civil war it has had for the past 45 years so I think comparisons between the two aren't very fair.

If you're looking for bargains on their way up, check out Nicaragua. Things there have stabilized politically and property is still dirt cheap and it's close to Costa Rica.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andy-NY says on Aug 2, 2005, 07:55:

My point is......... Utopia,

My point is exactly what you say; the baby boomers don't have enough money to afford homes in many parts of the U.S. The real estate market in most of the U.S. is up 100% or more in the past 5 years. The people that own homes can use the additional equity to purchase an investment propery in Colombia or other parts of Central or South America.

Crazy4cali,

I think it's smarter to invest now while it's still a little speculative. This is the reason why it's still relatively inexpensive and still a good investment. If we wait until things completely stabilize, then we missed the opportunity. I do agree with you about Nicaragua being a good place to invest, but they don't have Piasas there.

Andrew-NY

Andrew-NY

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 2, 2005, 08:33:

That's one POV That's a pretty optimistic point of view, Andy. There are plenty of beautiful, stable places to invest in real estate that don't have three armed groups and a massive crime problem. I'd say investing in Colombia would be like investing in Nicaragua 30 years ago. You might lose it all. Or you might wait 25 years before you get any return on investment.

To baby boomers retiring in the US who own real estate and are liquidating or downsizing it, places like Costa Rica and Mexico are still a bargain, even the expensive parts.

I say go ahead but don't bet the entire nest egg on such a speculative investment.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 2, 2005, 08:37:

I am glad that my wife still owns her apartment in Medellin but I would NEVER invest in real estate in Colombia. When it goes south you're stuck with the property - you can't move it like you can cold hard cash.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bkelly says on Aug 2, 2005, 09:37:

God I hope not! I really don't want Colombia to be "discovered" by the gringos. Americans are the worst travelers in the world and they would undoubtedly ruin Colombia.

--bkelly

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 2, 2005, 09:47:

"Americans are the worst travelers in the world and they would undoubtedly ruin Colombia."

Ruin it how? By spend much need dollars and thereby helping the colombian economy and generating employment? Bkelly, let me guess, you're not colombian, right?

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 2, 2005, 10:01:

this has been discussed before American touists, while known for their propensity to dispense money like there's no tomorrow, have a very small and localized impact on a national economy. Sure, some beach towns will become developed and commercialized, but do you think the money made by hotels (which will be owned by foreigners, most likely) in Cartagena will be felt in Popyan? Probably not.

A better way to boost the Colombian economy would be to eliminate the extortion and kidnapping threat so foreign investors would feel more secure in developing industries that would benefit the rest of the country while the tourist areas enjoy the tourism that will come with the foreigners and their money.

But I have to agree, American tourists are notoriously rude when overseas. Not everyone, of course, but the noisy ones that constantly complain how [insert your favorite foreign destination here] isn't like what they are used to back home. (duhhhh) And "why don't these people appreciate our visiting their country, the ingrates." Of course watching the drunk gringos hitting on every local female from 12 to 72 in age is always appealing. I haven't seen that much in Colombia, but in Mexico and Costa Rica, oy vey! I don't care how much money they throw around, I wouldn't want that in my country.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

toneloc24 says on Aug 2, 2005, 11:08:

CX - At what cost money? Trust me on this one. BKelly and Crazy4Cali have a very good point.

- Forget about expecting everyone in other countries to speak English, some/many do not even care to learn or respect the local cultures, or even a bit of the language

- Complaining about the heat (isn't it South America?)

- Blatantly hitting on (flirting) with any chica moving, married or not (Yeah, I know Colombians do it all the time. But, in Colombia moreso than the USA, if you don't know who or what you're messing with, just leave it alone.)

- Assuming every chica in a tourist town (Cartagena) is a puta, and treating her as such

- Complaining about the food (Can't find a good burger anywhere)

CX - I can go on and on. I've seen a lot of crap that presently leads me to stay away from Americans when I travel abroad. The topper was seeing an American dude throw a plate of food in the receptionist's face in the Dominican Republic, because it took too long to come and was cold. Of course, the dude spoke no Spanish. After he stomped off back to his room I presume, I helped the receptionist clean off and pleaded with them to call the police. Of course they wouldn't, as they might lose their jobs. I helped them clean up a bit, and explained that there are assholes everywhere.

From that moment, whenever I travel to a Spanish-speaking country, I rarely would speak English.

I hope Americans (USA) DON'T discover Colombia.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bkelly says on Aug 2, 2005, 11:23:

ColombianoX My grandmother was Colombian, actually. AND, I live in Colombia so the local economy very much interests me.

Having the Americans invade, and that is what they would do is invade, such cities as Cartagena, Santa Marta and San Andres would be a disaster. The dollars that they spend would have a short-term positive effect on the Colombian Economy. What probably would happen is American companies coming in and buying up resorts and hotels. If you don't believe me, see Costa Rica.

I come from an interesting background. My grandfather married a Colombian. They lived in Northern Ireland. My father's side of the family is British. My parents live in the USA, but the rest of my familiy lives in Ireland and England/Scotland (except for me in Colombia). My opinion on Americans is shared by many, many people. Not all Americans are horrible travelers, but the overwhelming majority are terrible.

--bkelly

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SoCalDude says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:14:

Ah, So the American Tourist Bashing begins in ernest! Oh damn are you people messed up. You think of Colombia as a jewel and I agree, but you think of Americans as the people who would screw it up. You think only of the few and not the many who quietly go about their vacations. You forget that those (INSERT FREAKIN NATIONALITY HERE) you see cruising along just might be (WELL YOU GUESSED IT) Americans too!

You think the money we would generate in Colombia wouldn't go to the government in Bogota. How about all the FREAKIN taxes Colombia would come up with because us GRINGOS are in the area spending the dollars we bring with us. I don't care if you don't like us, but you are messed up if you think a wave of gringos coming into Colombia wouldn't help Colombia's economy!

The only problem really is two-fold: 1) THE INEPT and HIGHLY CORRUPT GOVERNMENT of Colombia and 2) The Guerrillas that adorn Colombia's countryside.

The American tourist would be a welcome relief compared to the 2nd option above--or are you all on CRACK?

I certainly can take some of the American bashing, fine, we have a lot of idiots in our country. But, GENERALIZING, is stupid. I WILL NOT TOLERATE anyone tearing up our nation like BKELLY who needs to ---I won't say it here---. I lived in Cali for a year as a foreign exchange student, I am going back to Cali today. I love the country, but will not take the BS from some EuroSnob who thinks they are God's gift to the world. There is a reason Australia, Colombia, the USA, and many others cut some ties with Europe.

If Colombia could have 40 million gringos visiting each year it would have a great effect. Also, yes, Amercian businesses would start to look seriously at investing in Colombia. If the corrupt government officals in Bogota and in whatever local districts could allow the money generated to go where it is needed, then maybe Colombia's infrastructure could be improved quite a bit.

Oh, and by the way, WHERE ARE THERE MORE COLOMBIANS than any other country outside of COLOMBIA?

You need a hint EUROSNOBS?????? That's right, the USA!!

That's enough for now, I am going to the airport lounge here in Houston (thank goodness for the Houston to Cali direct flight) and waiting for my flight to take off with a nice cold Shiner Bock.

Regards,

SoCalDude (not a EuroSnob)
Currently in Houston, Texas
Soon to be in Cali, Colombia!!

SoCalDude

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Albatross says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:19:

Apparently I'm an asshole... As an American, I really should object to the preceeding commentary.
Unfortunately, I don't really like (other) Americans abroad either.

Come to think of it, I'm not all that fond of them at home either...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:30:

If only... If only the obnoxious ones were quiet, they'd be so much easier to ignore. But Nooooooooooooooooo...They have to make sure the whole world knows they are jerks.

This definitely falls into the "be careful for what you wish" category.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andy-NY says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:47:

Thanks SoCalDude........................... I couldn't have said it better myself. I have noticed a lot of Gringo/American bashing and it's a little annoying. I agree that there are many American Idiots like the ones decribed above, but overall I think most Americans are pretty decent people and respected travelers. I'm not talking about a couple of big mouths thinking they're hot-shit-gringos.

At least when foreigners/travelers come to the U.S, they don't have to leave their expensive watches and/or Jewelry home because they may get muged. Come on, give us a break. We are not trouble makers and we don't cause real problems when we travel. It's freakin SAD that I can't even walk around at night or wear my expensive watch in every country that I've been to lately in Central and South America. Think about it from our point when we travel to your continent.

Andrew-NY

Andrew-NY

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SoCalDude says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:51:

Albatross and Crazy4Cali You feel the need to object to my previous post? Please, by all means go ahead and do that. I guess I am absurd for standing up for those of us who go about our way and ARE NOT the OBNOXIOUS American Tourists (who are the minority) who deservedly receive the negative bashing they receive. However, I want to tell you a story.

There once was a BUSLOAD of tourists from Las Vegas, seniors if you will. They went to Cali and other tourist areas around. They didn't speak the language, but did have an interpreter. They were silly yes regarding some of the things they spoke about and the questions they asked. However, they dropped over $2000 in one afternoon in a quaint indian village in the Andes ( I forget the name) buying all kinds of things for their families and friends back home. They gave to the beggars and bought sweets for the kids. I saw how they could be perceived as possibly rude or something like that. But, they were seniors and they were kind and caring and not disrepectful of the people who were their hosts.

That is one story, I have many others. How about the Brits when they go abroad? Ever seen them taking trips to Colombia? or Germans? or many others. While we are not perfect, there are many Americans who do just fine as international travelers.

P.S. How about the foreigners who come to our country to visit? I have seen some horror stories there as well.

And straight up Crazy4Cali, you and I wouldn't be a problem for each other if we were bumping into each other along the way. However, your little backhanded comment deserves lots of praise--how about---nah, won't stoop to your levels. Have a great day!

Now I know why CaliPro gets so pissed off sometimes at some of the posters here who think they are do-gooders and have God on their side and their side alone!

Ok, back to the Shiner Bock.

SoCalDude

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 2, 2005, 13:37:

I don't think we disagree but we are talking about two different ends of the "tourist" spectrum (sort of like the three blind men describing the elephant).

The good tourists are great, the bad ones are terrible. That's all. I'm sure if I was sitting in a resturaunt with So-Cal Dude we'd get along just fine, perhaps even compare notes on what we saw and where we were going next.

But, more than one person commenting in this thread has experienced the "ugly american" tourist and I refuse to make excuses for them (and only them). The people (American or otherwise, I've seen it in Spanish tourists as well) I'm complaining about are the ones who feel they deserve the red f-ing carpet be rolled out for them since they are "blessing" the country with their presence and their money. Just them. That's all.

This isn't "gringo bashing" but it is "ugly american" bashing.

I think tourism can bring a lot of money to a locale, but I think its effect is very localized and very unreliable (until you get some critical mass of tourism or do a lot of marketing). For example, that one village in the post above got $2,000. That's great for them, but what about the other gazillion villages that just got bus exhaust.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

toneloc24 says on Aug 2, 2005, 13:46:

Andy-NY/SoCal Dude Specific "Gringo/American bashing" being done by this U.S. American.

Of course, this doesn't apply to every American traveler. I know several who try to assimilate into the local culture and respect it as well. They attempt to learn the language and enjoy the experience so much more.

However, those few bad apples that we speak about can usually be the cause of the label of the entire bunch. Feel free to defend them as you wish.

As stated by someone before, be careful what you wish for. Loads of tourism money for sure, but at what costs to Colombia?

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 2, 2005, 13:51:

I am content to never see another gringo while in Colombia. All the more reason to stay out of El Poblado, I guess.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

platano says on Aug 2, 2005, 14:13:

They dropped over US$2,000 in one afternoon!!! Probably in Silvia, Cauca, a quaint place where people go to stare at the Indians.

Besides their money, these American tourists also leave the impression that all gringos are rich... which ups the chances for being kidnapped, even if you are poor like me and happen to be in love with someone who owns 1/8 acre in rural Cauca. Damn the rich tourists! They make it more dangerous for me to visit my 400 square foot house in rural Colombia by perpetuating the stereotype that gringo = rich (which = secuestrable).

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 2, 2005, 15:58:

A few thoughts You know, I think the verdict is mixed on whether gringos are any better or worse than your average tourist. Mostly, I think we have two strikes against us which are that there are simply a LOT of us, and most of us are ignoramouses when it comes to foreign languages.

But in terms of loutish or ugly behavior, I've seen plenty of that from ALL nationalities. If you don't believe me, go anywhere on the Mexican coast on Sept 16 (their independence day) and watch the idiocy that ensues as everyone from Mexico City heads to the beach. They make a bunch of spring break fratboys look like amateurs. Or go to Bankok and watch the horny old German pervs chasing 10-year-old girls around for sex. And the Japanese tourism promoters are famous for building golf courses all over the world regardless of environmental consecuences.

Colombians, frankly, haven't impressed me when I see their own home-grown tourism. Man, San Andres is a freakin ecological disaster and I've seen Colombians on tour buses just throwing all their trash out the window and "staring at the indians" too.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bkelly says on Aug 2, 2005, 15:59:

SoCal Dude I am assuming the Eurosnob comment was directed towards me. Thanks for proving me right.

--bkelly

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Aug 2, 2005, 16:16:

gringos gods gift to the planet...........not hey we go....let me say it then .....gringos (American....opps North Americans....not including Canadians and poor Mexicans of course)are god's gift to this planet.....there are many who will disagree......I said it before and say it again...coming to Colombia with attitudes like that....you wouldn't get very far......but what do I know I am just Canadian

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 2, 2005, 16:31:

A gringo's a gringo - even a Canadian one. A friend of my wife's married a guy from Montreal. Sure enough all the Colombians referred to him as a gringo.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Aug 2, 2005, 16:34:

i hate it when they refer to me as gringo.....cause a gringo is normally referred as some American who thinks he's rich and smart as a whip and royal pain in the ass

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 2, 2005, 16:38:

"A friend of my wife's married a guy from Montreal. Sure enough all the Colombians referred to him as a gringo."

Well, those colombians are just displaying their ignorance. That is like when some (US)americans refer to all hispanics as 'mexicans' or 'puerto ricans'. The term 'gringo' is only supposed to refer to people from the United States.

ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 2, 2005, 16:38:

Nope. Any North American qualifies, poor or rich, smart or stupid. The only difference is the bills you guys paste to your foreheads are worth less than ours. Of course I am a Canadian myself, so "you" and "us" in this context are somewhat meaningless terms to me.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Hawaii-73 says on Aug 2, 2005, 17:24:

So called “Friendly Talkzone�? I’m amazed how quickly these “Friendly Talkzone�? discussions can turn ugly. It really keeps me from participating as often.

Don’t get me wrong, I like a lively debate and contrasting opinions but it gets pretty nasty in here sometimes.

If all you are doing is looking for a place to vent, start your own topic; don’t waste everyone else’s time.

There are many people on these discussions who just want to antagonize, and even more who consistently take the bait.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Aug 2, 2005, 17:44:

time for an ignore button again time for an ingnore feature...hehehehehe

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Aug 2, 2005, 17:51:

Dig a little deeper Vic ....and we won't have to wonder where you went. For the record I have met people in Canada (and from Canada) who fit the mold, so don't be too smug with the generalization.
;)

~ Adriana

"when they refer to me as gringo.....cause a gringo is normally referred as some American who thinks he's rich and smart as a whip and royal pain in the ass"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

morphus says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:03:

Colombia is just too far for most Americans to travel to. i'm talking about American families with children that are looking for a beach vacation. its NEVER going to happen as long as there is Jamaica, Bahamas and Mexico. and when the embargo agaist Cuba is dropped, its going to cause an economic imbalance throughout the Carribean. Americans will be going there like crazy. i used to travel to Cuba illegally through the Bahamas. the plane ride to the Bahamas is hell. the plane is packed with fat couples and bratty kids screaming. i was more happy on the Russian plane leaving Bahamas to Cuba even though the seats were ripped and smoke fills the cabin during take off.
the only tourists Cartagena will ever see are loser gringos and drug tourists from Isreal. the real desperate go to Medellin and Cali. the day i see an entire American family of husband, wife and kids sitting on Cartagena beach i'll go into shock.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:05:

"Colombia is just too far for most Americans to travel to."

Too far? I could leave right now (9:07 PM EST) from Miami and be there before midnight!

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:08:

never said Canadians weren't any different just was taking about the word gringo and who its referred to and why.... I still believe Canadians are not gringos we are canucks and adrimm I didn't go to university..... hell I went to the school of construction knocks can you define "smug" and actually not sure what you meant with your post "dig a little deeper....and we won't have to wonder where you went"" sorry don't get it? if you could please do explain as I am not smart as a whip.....therefore the resentment against people who are smart as a whip

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic
homepage
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jacintoplace

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:09:

"the only tourists Cartagena will ever see are loser gringos and drug tourists from Isreal. the real desperate go to Medellin and Cali. the day i see an entire American family of husband, wife and kids sitting on Cartagena beach i'll go into shock."

I don't know where the hell you're from but I find this remark very insulting. There are many people from this board who have visited Cartagena and they are not 'loser gringos' or 'drug tourists from Israel'. It seems to me that the "desperate loser" is someone else.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:13:

Too far I'm also baffled by this comment "Colombia is just too far for most Americans to travel to. i'm talking about American families with children that are looking for a beach vacation."

First of all, the primary "beach vacation" destination for Americans is probably Hawaii, which is much farther from the east coast or midwest than Colombia is. On the beach front, the biggest thing holding Colombia back is that the beaches in its tourist towns are simply not that great. But there's no shortage of great beaches a little farther out.

Second, what makes you think they have to come here for beach vacations? Peru is absolutely crawling with American tourists going there for mountains, jungles and ancient ruins. Colombia has all that and more. Even Costa Rica isn't primarily a beach destination.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

adrimm says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:13:

Have to agree with ColX It is certainly closer for most US folk (except Alaska) than the UK and Europe (which are 10 hr flights from northwestern US), and how many people pack up and go for there for a one-time special vacation? Sure Colombia may be a little more expensive to get to, but once there things are a fraction of the cost compared to other destination.

In terms of travel time...sitting on a plane for 3 to 7 hours isn't all that different than sitting in a car for a day to drive across the state or a province.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

alexis33015 says on Aug 2, 2005, 18:52:

thank you!!! I’m amazed how quickly these “Friendly Talkzone�? discussions can turn ugly. It really keeps me from participating as often.

Don’t get me wrong, I like a lively debate and contrasting opinions but it gets pretty nasty in here sometimes.

If all you are doing is looking for a place to vent, start your own topic; don’t waste everyone else’s time.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

morphus says on Aug 2, 2005, 19:00:

it does'nt matter the Americans are NOT going to Colombia, alright. you're lucky i go.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Aug 2, 2005, 22:55:

vent somewhere else I am with you Alex. I also love a good "educated argument" but I have seen alot of ugly attacks people do on each other in these rooms. Oh I did I mention stupid and or ignorant comments directed at people personaly. Do I need to go on. lol. Sometimes people lash out without even reading the topic of the forum. One idiot starts off on a rant that has nothing to do with the topic in hand, and you get a bunch of idiots following him. You know who you are lol. They don't even take the time to grasp the concept of the topic. You just have to shake your head and NOT get involved. It is just not worth wasting your time over.

On the upside, there are more persons in these forums who really make it all worth while. They are very knowledgeable and are more than willing to contribute and share their knowledge. More importantly they can share their knowledge without putting others down. You can learn from people like this. That is the main reason for Poorbuthappy isn't it?

IMHO

Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Aug 2, 2005, 23:13:

Hey Tito What about Canadians where do you place Tito?

In terms of the American behaving the way he did...no excuse. Abosolutely no excuse for his behaviour. I have travelled throught the US and have found that 99.9% Americans do NOT act this way. It happens. It is wrong. And it puts a bad bleamish on the face of Americans. However, it is not customary for Americans to behave this way. You cannot paint all Americans with this broad brush. When you do this you become the same as the person described (close minded). And, you must remember that Americans are not all WASP. The US is multi cultural same as Canada. So hating or disliking all Americans is pretty drastic.

One last thing, when you have Americans at a resort more often than not they are the ones doing the tipping. Maybe I am wrong, but I would guess that they are the best tippers in the world. In some ways I see Americans like Colombians..they love to party and enjoy life. One thing I have learned about Americans is that they never, "never" do anything half way.

Again, what this person did was discusting and I do not condone this behaviour in any way....Did you or anyone go back a few days later to see if this person apologized?

Maybe he was from NYC that would explain why he was so uptight lol.

Frank

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:54:

This loser Gringo lives in Cartagena. I have many friends from all over the world who live and visit here. Some are even Iraelis. There are assholes everywhere. But there are very few "ugly Americans" in this group.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SoCalDude says on Aug 4, 2005, 02:16:

So this topic is alive and well I see I am surprised about how this topic has grown these past couple days since I left for Cali.

First, Crazy4Cali, thanks for your response. Your points are well taken and I think we have both chilled out a bit.

Second, for all the "perfect" people. Yeah, the general discussions are great, but you don't gain Understanding without airing the dirty laundry once in awhile. I do agree that personal attacks are a bit off, but on the same token, this is something that is probably going to continue because people have emotions about different things and feel the need to respond. I think this topic has helped some understanding for us all and really that is what the world needs more of for sure.

Regards,

SoCalDude

SoCalDude

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 4, 2005, 06:03:

Disfrute Cali! I was just there spending my hard-earned tourist dollars a couple of weeks ago. I doubt that I made much of a dent towards the improvement of the Colombian economy, but I had a great time!

Ayayay! Que rumba!

0 funny, 0 helpful.