Colombia: New Car Prices From Hell

Bill Turley says on Jun 1, 2008, 17:52:

I have hope fot the TLC to be passed even though both Democrats oppose the concept.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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sloopskipper says on Jun 1, 2008, 17:54:

Just what everybody needs, with world-wide temperatures rising, oceans rising, glaciers receding, and the Amazon drying up.

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saddlespur says on Jun 1, 2008, 18:03:

Sloop you still believing that hyped up mumbo jumbo?

To Get What You Never Had...You Must Do What You've Never Done.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 1, 2008, 18:09:

Damned straight!

It's not bullshit, except for oil lobbyists, and Republicans! I have seen the shrunken icecaps in South America.

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adrimm says on Jun 1, 2008, 18:23:

Yep.. plants don't lie.... we've got horticulturists discovering that all of a sudden the plant zones aren't true anymore - there are people growing things that have never been able to grow in Canada before.

Besides that cities in Colombia are so densely populatated (the average density of Bogota is **higher** than Manhattan) that having a car won't get anyone anywhere any faster. The only practical solution is a really really extensive mass transit system.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 1, 2008, 18:27:

But of course, partly due to Hummers, Expeditions, F350s, and idiots living 100 miles or more from their work.

Now they whine about gas prices. It DID happen before!

BUT, ride the train, or the bus?

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sloopskipper says on Jun 1, 2008, 18:35:

I was told by locals that this tiny ice cap, in sothern Perú, was maybe 10 or 15 times larger, 10 years ago (and this was springtime):



Some people should turn off FOX, get on an airplane, and outa Georgia, to see what is really happening in the rest of the World (or simply visit Denver, and see what has happened to the pristine vista there).

O'Reilly and Limbaugh are lying to you, or they are just too stupid to know any better.

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saddlespur says on Jun 2, 2008, 04:33:

If some people have to worship a mythical hoax that the science community can't even agree upon...I'll stay in Georgia. I would like to know though, since you know these things...What should the temperature on earth be? What is normal? Since man has been tracking this data for a hundred plus years, and earth is probably at least 200 years old. How does your math equate into what is "normal" and what is "normal"?

Enlighten me, make me feel as guilty as you. After we blame cars and trucks, what's next? Next? Next?

To Get What You Never Had...You Must Do What You've Never Done.

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tomtom33 says on Jun 2, 2008, 04:49:

What caused the global warming that ended the last ice age? Can't blame that one on my Expedition. By the way, my Expedition sits in the garage 8 months a year burning no gas. A Jetta won't pull my boat.

When ice cream consumption increases in New York, the death rate increases in India. However, I really don't believe that those ice cream eaters are killing Indians.

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Gator says on Jun 2, 2008, 07:11:

Sadlespur, "...and earth is probably at least 200 years old.

First enlightment: The earth is more than 200 years old."

wink, wink

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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adrimm says on Jun 2, 2008, 09:08:

Actually we can track the data going back for thousands of years. Air trapped in layers of ice & snow can be dated and tested.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:39:

Yes, look at the temperature charts, as far back as you like, and zero in on the last ten or fifteen years.

And what reputable scientists disagree?

And if that’s not a sail boat, there is fuel for the Expedition to get it to the water, and then even more pollution (air & water) once it’s in the water.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:47:

Of course it is not just cars & trucks. It is everything that spews heat and pollutants into the atmosphere and water, as well as deforestation.

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jorgegdiaz says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:48:

OMG... saddlespur sounds like GWB...

He strikes me as the kind of guy who thinks the south will raise again...

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:53:

tomtom33 says on Jun 2, 2008, 04:49: flag

"What caused the global warming that ended the last ice age?"

I am not a scientist, but I think that the ice age itself is believed to have been caused, ironically, by naturally caused air-borne pollutants from volcanic eruptions and meteor strikes blocking the sunlight, which eventually settled back to the ground, resulting in re-warming.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:54:

"Save your Dixie-Cups"

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 11:57:

Those scientists who disbelieve are probably from Liberty U. and Bob Jones.

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tomtom33 says on Jun 2, 2008, 12:10:

It is not a sailboat, and it has a 50-gallon gas tank. That's 80 gallons to fill it and the Expedition. But I haul the boat about 2 blocks to the launch. Then drive the boat about 2 miles to the sandbar. The fact that I don't have a Jetta and a rowboat doesn't mean that I consume a lot of fuel. I do not commute to work. In fact I don't work.

And 10 to 15 years of data do not a fact make, not even to Bob Jones scientists.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 12:29:

Then you're a bit like me. I'm retired too, and a tank lasts me about a month. But at $4.05 per gallon, thank God for small favors.

I meant look at the charts that go back beyond the ice age, but zoom in on the recent history.

I'll search for Senator Gore's, jaja.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 12:35:

This is the one that was so vivid in my memory:



Although it doesn't go so far back.

But was the CO2 that was even more dramatic:



And it goes back much further, although tough to read in these fotos of the presentation.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 13:07:

I have not really tried to examine credentials, but you are hearing a lot fewer naysayers now.

I thought it was a mild winter in the Northeast this year, and an early Spring. I don't pay too much attention, but friends in Pennsylvania told me that, and of course we talked about the warming.

"And What is there Political (and business) affiliation?", BINGO! Everybody has an agenda (often hidden).

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tomtom33 says on Jun 2, 2008, 14:52:

Actually I have heard more naysayers lately. But I will admit that my beliefs have been shadowed by my attention and perception. But it doesn't really matter what I believe. There is nothing that I am going to do about it one way or the other.

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Piatt says on Jun 2, 2008, 15:32:

I just took a class on global warming and I can honestly say it's too late for change. The approaches to reverse climate change introduced in my course are to radical for Americans to adopt...it would be a complete lifestyle change. Also, if the U.S. citizens hypothetically were onboard for green living it wouldn't even matter because people in and governments LDC's (lesser developed countries) have a mindset that, this coming century is there Industrial revolution therefore the desire in poorer countries to economically grow green is not there.

gordo

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Piatt says on Jun 2, 2008, 15:37:

LDC's have to feed their people and in order to do that they have to make money so it's not in the governments interest to build a nuclear power plant; that is more environment friendly but extremely expensive and slow in profit compared to approving tons of coal plants that are quick and cheap to build and profit hella faster.

gordo

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adrimm says on Jun 2, 2008, 15:46:

It's true but we can minimize the extent to which it happens... My granchildren will be able to enjoy locally grown lemons! Although we are/will lose huge numbers of plant & animal species which will be unable to adapt quickly enough.

I hold out hope that the lack of cheap fuel will definitely be a huge part of the life-style change. It's actually funny that many of us pay to vacation in places that have charming compact walkable old-town centres with local markets, trams & trains but would never dream to live such a life at home.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 17:53:

It's surely a slippery slope.

adrimm, do a little research for how General Motors (Sloan?) killed the passanger trains in the U.S. It's all out there, and was criminal.

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adrimm says on Jun 2, 2008, 22:00:

Ohh I know. It's disgusting. Maybe not the same group, but whoever it was/whatever the rationale, trolleys & streetcars connecting suburban villages to cities were torn out all over the place . Bogota had a great network that was torn out in the 50s or 60s.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 23:09:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

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sloopskipper says on Jun 2, 2008, 23:14:

There seems to be a lot less information out there then there used to be, like how GM bribed government officials with new Cadillacs.

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 3, 2008, 00:36:

Piatt: "don't believe the hype." - Chuck D / Public Enemy

To put things in perspective ... and research this if you have nothing better to do: One medium size volcano eruption spews out WAY more toxic gas, and whatever else, than vehicles. But even with vehicles burning gasoline, and coal electric plants running - the biggest source of greenhouse gas is termites and ants. Number 2 is animal shit vapor. Throw in a good volcano eruption, and that is bigger than everything.

Quit giving humans so much credit. Mother nature kicks our ass when it comes to environmental destruction. One of the most common human attributes (faults) is arrogance.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 3, 2008, 07:37:

We don't have a lot of control of volcanos, or animal shit, but:

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sloopskipper says on Jun 3, 2008, 07:44:

Although I certainly don't agree with:

Hummer Owner Gets Angry Message
Vandals Batter D.C. Man's SUV, Slash Its Tires and Scratch In an Eco Note

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007...

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2008, 07:47:

There's a headline today about GM closing four more truck plants and putting the Hummer brand under strategic review (read: selling it).

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sloopskipper says on Jun 3, 2008, 07:50:

I think that has been underway for some time (selling the brand).

It'll probably go to India.

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jonas says on Jun 3, 2008, 08:05:

You reckon even Elmo will come to live in Bogota when the heat gets goin and the water level rises?

Simon Presidente!

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Lowell says on Jun 3, 2008, 08:42:

Friends I have in the States still laugh when I tell them that I, have residency permits for Colombia and Panama, live in a country that if need be can be self suficient, can walk to all my needs, can convert my roof area to grow many things (nearly all) and with the the surplus, trade for things that I need, or can't grow, motherinlaw can raise animals, all the water I need from the sky and can build storage tanks if our rain ammount lessens, do not have, need or want a car......... Perhaps later I'll be the one laughing.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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sloopskipper says on Jun 3, 2008, 08:57:

GM to close four plants, may unload Hummer line By Soyoung Kim
1 hour, 12 minutes ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080603/ts_nm/gm_dc

WILMINGTON, Delaware (Reuters) - General Motors Corp on Tuesday said it was closing four North American truck plants and could sell its Hummer brand to cut slow-selling trucks and SUVs from its lineup in response to higher gasoline prices the automaker now sees as a permanent threat to its business.

Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, speaking after a revised restructuring plan was approved by the automaker's board, said GM would close the four truck plants and add shifts at two other plants making more popular car models.

In addition, Wagoner said GM was reviewing the Hummer brand and could sell the military-derived SUV line, which has become synonymous with gas-guzzling excess.

"U.S. economic and market conditions have become significantly more difficult," Wagoner said, adding higher gasoline prices have caused consumers to swap out of trucks and SUVs faster than the automaker had expected.

In a related shift, Wagoner also said GM's board had approved funding for a next-generation compact model for the Chevrolet brand as well as a new subcompact Chevy Aveo, expected to go on sale in the U.S. market in 2010.

GM's board also allocated production funding to the Chevy Volt, a heavily touted, all-electric vehicle that GM expects to have in showrooms by 2010, Wagoner said.

GM shares, which have lost almost 60 percent since their peak in October last year, were up about 2 percent at $17.79 in early trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

Wagoner said GM, which has lost a combined $51 billion over the past three years, was not ready to detail a timeline for returning to profitability.

Some analysts questioned whether the embattled automaker had moved too slowly, particularly with regard to weighing its options for Hummer.

"Unfortunately, it's just a sign that once again they're behind the curve," said Peter Jankovskis, a chief investment officer with OakBrook Investments, which owns GM shares in some of its portfolios.

"If they were looking to sell the Hummer brand, the more sensible thing would have been to do it three years ago. They're not going to get anything for it. Just in terms of timing, it's a very poor example," he said.

Pete Hastings, a corporate bond analyst at Morgan Keegan, agreed that GM had missed a chance to shop Hummer with potential buyers earlier.

"I wish they had done it awhile ago when it was really hot," he said. "I don't know what price they will get for it as now everyone is conscious of the permanent shift away from less fuel-efficient vehicles."

GM said it would stop making light trucks at plants in Oshawa, Ontario; Silao, Mexico, and two U.S. plants covered by its contract with the United Auto Workers: Moraine, Ohio, and Janesville, Wisconsin.

'TOTAL CAPITULATION'

Tim Ghriskey, chief investment officer with Solaris Asset Management in New York, said GM would eventually see cost savings from its decision to close the truck plants.

"This is total capitulation by GM management to the price of oil," said Ghriskey, who does not currently own GM shares but has in the past and follows the stock closely. "GM believes that the high price of oil is permanent and therefore they are making dramatic cuts in their low-mileage vehicles."

GM said it took the latest steps in a 3-year-old program of cost-cutting in response to a U.S. sales decline and a shift out of higher-margin trucks and SUVs that have both shot past expectations.

Major automakers, including GM, are expected to post steep declines in U.S. sales for May later on Tuesday, as the spike in gas prices batters an industry that has been reeling this year from weak consumer confidence and tighter credit.

GM's rival Ford Motor Co warned last month it no longer expected to turn a profit in 2009 because of the impact of runaway gas prices.

President and Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said GM was no longer confident the U.S. auto market would recover in the second half of this year as it had earlier predicted.

But Henderson, who was speaking to reporters before GM's annual meeting with shareholders, said GM has adequate cash to fund operations in 2008 and could raise more liquidity if the downturn in the auto market persists.

GM ended the first quarter with $31 billion in cash, available liquidity and undrawn credit. Analysts handicapping GM's turnaround efforts have increasingly focused on the cash drain from its operations and support for troubled former subsidiaries, GMAC and bankrupt parts supplier Delphi Corp.

In a sign of the deepening trouble for GMAC's mortgage unit, ResCap, GMAC and Cerberus Capital Management on Tuesday said they had agreed to inject more than $1.4 billion to help the struggling mortgage lender avoid running short of cash.

Cerberus bought 51 percent of Detroit-based GMAC from GM, which retains the rest of the equity in the financing company.

"The economy will see some improvement in the second half, but we're not convinced we're going to see improvement in the auto sector," Henderson told reporters.

(Additional reporting by Ben Klayman in Chicago and Poornima Gupta in Detroit, writing by Kevin Krolicki; Editing by Maureen Bavdek)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2008, 08:59:

That's it! Detroit is famous for being wrong (or way late) on macro trends. Time to sell oil and buy a Hummer.

;-)

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sloopskipper says on Jun 3, 2008, 09:01:

jajaja,

Well, the concensus is that the Hummer brand is now virtually worthless.

Talk about "a day late, and a dollar short".

I actually held a little GM stock for a short period, and made a couple pennies when I dumped it.

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