Colombia here I come... Hola Medellin and Paisa’s…

LatinThug says on May 30, 2005, 03:17:

My experience It seems like you have a good life going on, learn yourself some Spanish and spend some time down in Colombia, with a bit of luck you might find the world’s best kind of women in the world in all aspects.

What I like the most about Colombian women, or Latinas generally, can’t really speak to load, im not familiar with anyone else but Colombian girls.

The thing is that they are so debuted to their homes, husbands and children. I’m so tried of the women here in Norway, the bad thing is that foreign culture change their mind, at least that’s what I have experienced, I came to Norway with my girlfriend from Colombia in 98, we went to college together and after we lived together for a couple of months she got pregnant and the government gave us the permission to stay.

When the first kid was born everything was perfect, we even had another one, I finished my studies and worked hard and was able to give them everything we needed, even though we were really young then. I turned just 18 when I got my first boy. Life is so different in here; we had everything in just a couple of years.

The thing is that due to her pregnancy she wasn’t able to work nor study anymore, but when the kids started growing up, she got herself a job at a clothing store, since then she changed totally, she started going out with her “best friend” which was single, and you know what happens when single women party alone? Well…the same we men do, don’t get me wrong.

Some time passed and our relationship wasn’t going too well and it came to an end for 6 months ago.

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dwmte says on May 30, 2005, 04:04:

well jeff.... it's so close now, you're almost walking on the coals. just be patient and WAIT TIL YOU GET THERE....

don't have the propensity to water the love plant before you walk out into the garden. just take your time. a sore heart--which just about everyone can identify with, in one way or another--is a living wound and takes it's proper hour to heal.

we've all walked along with you during these months and want to continue to walk with you til it's 'down the aisle'....not down another avenue of misery.

i think i speak for many in wishing you all the best luck in the world and all the patience necessary for that 'luck' to unfold and flourish. one of my brothers told me...'dont push the river, it flows by itself...'

so on that note, i'll just sit back and root for you.

LATIN THUG. if i was you, i'd call the parents of this paisa and have them jump deep into the shit of your wife. have everyone in the family give her a good goin over. what a bunch of crap.

my heart is out to you. just take the kids and deal with her in the proper manner. whether man or woman. cheating is cheating and just about all it deserves, is the door.

be strong. and stay in touch with us. remember, desi lives up there by where you are. pm her and pick up some caring, clear advise.

all the best to both of you fellows.

douglas

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dwmte says on May 30, 2005, 04:04:

well jeff.... it's so close now, you're almost walking on the coals. just be patient and WAIT TIL YOU GET THERE....

don't have the propensity to water the love plant before you walk out into the garden. just take your time. a sore heart--which just about everyone can identify with, in one way or another--is a living wound and takes it's proper hour to heal.

we've all walked along with you during these months and want to continue to walk with you til it's 'down the aisle'....not down another avenue of misery.

i think i speak for many in wishing you all the best luck in the world and all the patience necessary for that 'luck' to unfold and flourish. one of my brothers told me...'dont push the river, it flows by itself...'

so on that note, i'll just sit back and root for you.

LATIN THUG. if i was you, i'd call the parents of this paisa and have them jump deep into the shit of your wife. have everyone in the family give her a good goin over. what a bunch of crap.

my heart is out to you. just take the kids and deal with her in the proper manner. whether man or woman. cheating is cheating and just about all it deserves, is the door.

be strong. and stay in touch with us. remember, desi lives up there by where you are. pm her and pick up some caring, clear advise.

all the best to both of you fellows.

douglas

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LatinThug says on May 30, 2005, 05:03:

yes I did everything possible to make her recapacitate, but she were blind with some guy so I decided to leave, she asked me a couple of time about giving our family another shot but I'm quite fine by myself now. It hurts not to be able to give my kids the family they deserve but there is nothing I can do, or want to do, the kids will understand when they grow up, and we cant sacrifice our happiness because of the kids, I mean we could, but its that really the best solution? where there is no love? and nothing more than pain and hate?

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LatinThug says on May 30, 2005, 05:04:

lol I feel such a dramaqueen =)

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greenday says on May 30, 2005, 05:23:

good luck Jeff I think you're on the right track as far as Medellín goes. I think a paisa is more suited for your situation, as opposed to a Costeña (sorry if that sounds stereotypical, but is based on experience).
I'm headed back to Medellín soon...maybe I'll even be there in august...if there is anything I can do to assist you, just send me an e-mail.
Just remember, TAKE YOUR TIME!! Don't get too fixated on one woman, especially when you haven't met her in person...play the field when you're down there...spend time with many, narrow it down to a few, then select one to spend all of your time with. It will take more than one trip down there to know if she is the "special" one.
Good luck my friend!!

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LatinThug says on May 30, 2005, 05:28:

LOL j/k u could do some burras in the midtime, LOL, maybe not a good joke.

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2retirensa says on May 30, 2005, 05:47:

Hi Jeff I like this idea much better than the last! Once you go, you won't want to return home!
I met my novio through a friend I met 11 years ago when she first came to the US on a work visa. She Spoke very little english, and living in a very small town in TN no one wanted anything to do with her (sometimes people in small towns, with no experience with non-english speaking people, are not friendly). We quickly became good friends, and 10 years later (last year),after having met her parents twice, she introduced me to her uncle (mothers brother)via email. This was with the blessing of her parents and we emailed back and forth for a good # of months, with her translating our letters (I personally think she added a few things coming and going!).
He has been a widower for a little over 2 years. We hit it off from the very first letter, and from the very first meeting. I spoke NO spanish the first time we met in person, and it made no difference! I took Spanish lessons for about 2 months as soon as I returned. We now email and talk on the phone at least 4-5 times a week. As everyone knows, I am now preparing to marry and move to Colombia.
I would never have been able to meet anyone without a personal introduction, from someone who knows the family, and the persons character, and morals. For me, after more than 25 years single, it is a miracle!!
I hope you have the same great results of a personal introduction that I have.
Dios te bendiga
Maureen

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Crazy4Cali says on May 30, 2005, 06:55:

Be careful, down there.. ...you may find more than you bargained for! It's quite possible that instead of meeting one wonderful woman you might meet ten, or more! Then whaddya do?!

That might sound like heaven until you realize you have to pick one. (Of course, some people solve that problem by never picking just one!)

In the meantime, take it easy and start preparing yourself for sensory overload.

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carolain11 says on May 30, 2005, 07:25:

2retirensa I guess you are a man, so you probably wouldn't want to refer to your significant other as "novio" but "novia"...

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utopiacowboy says on May 30, 2005, 08:19:

In our own absurd way, I am glad that we could help, Jeff. Remember, it's your life. Buena suerte, dude!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on May 30, 2005, 09:12:

Hi Jeff First let me begin by saying that I appreciate your acknowledgment. My opinions often tend to run against the prevailing point of view around here though. In fact, it's easy to agree with everyone that dances to the same melody. It's when you decide to take on the established order, that is when kitchen starts to get hot. With that said I am about to do it again.

"I am open to the chance of meeting a Canadian or American woman with or without kids.."
Your quote

Jeff my man.....that is the best line you wrote (next to acknowledging my contributions) is the entire post. You know around here, you here about all these happy people who married women, and sometimes men, from Colombia and you get this distorted view that life is great and nothing can go wrong.

It reminds me of all my friends that go to Las Vegas and then come home and tell me how much money they made. I know that some people do make money in Vegas, but the reality is a distinct majority lose money and they lose a lot. They would not be able to build bigger and nicer hotels if even %25 mad money on their trips. The funny thing is though is that nobody ever hears from the people that lose money. They just say they had a good time and talk about the shows they saw and whatever.

My point is a simple one. A lot of these foreign and pardon me, "internet" or "telephone" wives simply don't pan out. And Jeff, I know you are a nice guy, it is obvious from your post. But please don't send money or buy gifts for the children (the doll). She knows you are from Canada. She knows you have her own business. She knows you have $$. Period. You might as well put a for sale sign on your forehead. You simply have not established the level of relationship that warrants you sending her anything of financial value. My Colombianitas are so beautiful, physically and otherwise. But they can be extremely manipulative and outstanding actresses. This is especially true when you happen to be a ticket out of a country that is riddled with violence, political instability, and an economy that condemns you to being poor or near poor for in perpetuity. You are not her meal ticket. You are her lottery ticket that is more representative of the supper lotto as opposed to the quick cash game.

Jeff, talking on the phone once a week or even every day, frequent visits is NOT indicative of real life. My point is that there are so many unknown situations out there for her that you will not know about until you will have already committed and married her and she has had a chance to live in this country for a while. The adjustment is a huge one. You are right. You have a business. You have kids of your own. And in some way, you will not only have new wife with additional kids who also will have to adjust, but in a way, she is going to be like a kid because you and your existing family will have to teach her everything about life in North America. Learning English is the least of her problems.

I know that Kernow, and UTC and many others have done quite well. But
this site PBH, is a poor example of how well (or not so well) as I contend, these marriages are. If you read this crazy site, you would think Colombia is all happy and wonderful, and there are no problems and the media exaggerates about everything and the US State Department does not know what it's talking about. I hope you know better. Speaking of safety, just your going down there again and again is not such a great idea either. You do have children here (in Canada) and despite what these fools tells you here, Colombia is a very dangerous place for Gringos. And, although your potential girlfriend’s family has the best of intentions, they as Colombians often do NOT understand the magnitude of danger that you are confronted with as a Gringo. They are so used to their situations that they confront as Colombians, they are not educated in the level of danger that you are exposed to. They also get so used to the violence and dangers, that to them, it is every day cost of living.

Jeff.......why not give it another chance in you own back yard. It is safer. There is less of a commitment. You can test her out by driving her home at night. And a local phone call costs next to nothing. Even a trip from BC to Quebec is cheaper than a trip to Colombia. By the way, where are you in Canada?

Give it a thought......

G5

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Miguel says on May 30, 2005, 09:19:

carolain11 Estas equivocada. 2retire/Maureen es gringa y entonces ella, en verdad, tiene NOVIO.

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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WidowerfromCanada says on May 30, 2005, 09:34:

Thanks dwmte, Latinth , Greenday , 2ret , Crazy , UTC & Gomez Thanks for all your comments and feedback....

Douglas I am going to take my time this time...

Latinth , all the best...

Greenday , I am going to take my time and not concentrate on one woman...

2ret , Yes this idea is better then the last idea. roflmao...

Crazy , I like the sound of sensory overload...

UTC , In your own absurd way you give great advice... I have been looking at Medellin and women with children... thanks to your advice and thoughts...

Gomez , Thanks for the good advice... I will be careful and keep my options open..

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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carolain11 says on May 30, 2005, 10:23:

ok then why does she say " she first came to ... She Spoke very little english... no one wanted anything to do with her". i thought the same (2retire... is a she), but then what's going on?

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Gomezman5 says on May 30, 2005, 10:44:

Your welcome Except.....I really don't think you are keeping your options open. You want a Colombian woman. It's written all over your script. So if you really want to keep your options open, put a listing in match.com. Afterall you will not have to worry about Spanish. Maybe French? if she is from Quebec. But, From Ontario to BC you will not have to worry about
French either. You are not in a hurry.....you said so. I'll bet you will find the woman of your dream, and she by the way will have found a great guy and a couple of great kids. And then....you will look back and say to yourself, thank god I didn't have to deal with the uncertainty and costs of dealing with a woman from another planet...which is about what you have when you are talking about a gringo from Canada versus a Colombian woman.

Give it a try before running off to Colombia. You will not find many people agreeing with me around here because all you hear from are the success stories and from the Colombian women who don't quite get my point and think that I am putting down my own people. But this is an open forum and you need to hear the minority and I think more logical view instead of shooting craps with your love life.

In any event.....Good Luck either way

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utopiacowboy says on May 30, 2005, 10:53:

Carolain11, she was talking about a friend of hers. The friend, who is a woman, has an uncle that is the novio of 2retire. It was a little confusing - I had to read it a couple of times myself.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caulfield2 says on May 30, 2005, 10:54:

Gomez, I couldn't agree more.

I say this based on the fact that I married a Russian woman and went through the entire immigration process (beginning in January of 2003, when we first met), and it has taken her almost 16 months to get adjusted (she arrived in Nov. 2003), and she's still not there yet in terms of being 100% independent. And, she spoke fluent English when she came here and had already learned how to drive a car before arrival.

We are probably going to get separated or divorced. I am actually going to Colombia to teach for two years and she's going to stay in the United States for at least one year...although there's a 50/50 chance she will come down to Colombia to study Spanish (she wants to be an interpreter/translator).

It's easy to fall in love in these "vacation" situations, because they don't represent a "real" relationship when you are together due to the circumstances. You get in a hurry and make decisions based on incomplete information. She doesn't see how your life really is, how much buying power you actually have...how difficult things can be in the U.S. in general, let alone assimilating and trying to find a "meaningful" job. She perhaps guesses and thinks everything must be almost perfect, because you are her "white night" and you've come to save her from (pick one, economic hardship, no job prospects, single motherhood, overbearing family, country life, etc.)

Yes, we talked on the phone everyday for hours and hours, e-mailed each other every day...all those things that people who are head over heels in love do, but we really rushed into things. One of the reasons is because I live in KC and would have had to wait well over a year for her to come to the US as a K-1 visa holder, and they NEVER give single Russians a tourist visa. It just doesn't happen.

I think I was to the point in my life (age 33) where I was feeling the pressure that I should get married and have kids, but I was so independent and set in my bachelor ways (and a spoiled only child to boot) that I didn't realize how difficult it would be to live with another person and compromise on many things, no matter how beautiful she was/is.

You might THINK Colombia has all the answers to your dilemma....you can just "jump" forward into a new relationship and have a fiance, boom, like that, right? Sounds better than going through the dating scene, blind dates, bars, personals, friends setting you up, dealing with "those" types who won't accept kids?

Well, just keep in mind you can make your situation for your children much worse financially (I'm a teacher, you are a businessman and have more to risk and lose) and you could be kidnapped or killed and your children wouldn't have one parent, let alone two. Of course, I too am going to Colombia and taking a risk in a way, but it's only MY life, not someone else's.

If I were ever to get married again, Colombia, Russian or other, I'm going to wait at least 18-24 months and make sure that I really want to be with this person for the rest of my life. I have some advantage in that I will be living in Colombia and will not be seen as the "way out" if I tell them I am staying past my two year contract to teach. You really have to look out for yourself and time will show to you who's real and who is not...I know you want to give your kids a mother RIGHT AWAY, but this is the most expensive, time-consuming and impractical way to do it. You'll become a mother to your wife, especially if she can't speak English, which will actually cause you to spend LESS time with your children and make you probably a lesser parent than when you were a single one.

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Caballista says on May 30, 2005, 11:04:

Yes, be careful with a woman that you do not know. Like we say "caras vemos, corazones no sabemos" we can see the face but not the heart.
And I know a lot of woman from my country that are trying to leave the country because the situation, specially with children. I'm from Colombia and in my own city my father's cousin was flirting with him, in front of my mom, and my father married her. Years pasted and my mother died, my "stepmother-cousin" convinced my father to have everything under her name and her children's name (my half-brothers); my father was killed in Colombia and my stepmother and my brothers ("my family") left me and my 2 other real brothers without a penny. So thing about this: for money woman do and say anything and everything. Put your children first and for cooking, hire a good personal chef or cook. Take time with your children alone, because a new woman in your life is a problem for you to know more about your own children. I'm divorced and my son is 30 years old now and I didn't want to give him a stepfather. And I do not regret it.
I wish you the best, but judge for yourself and yes try to find somebody from your area, that your children feels comfortable with that person from the beginning, because is their life to. I will love my father to ask me about his cousin to be a wife. No Way!!!

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2retirensa says on May 30, 2005, 11:17:

You guys aren't mind readers? Sorry for the confusing post. I sometimes think everyone here knows everything about me already and tend to leave things out. Thanks to Miguel, I think you have the picture.
Yes, I am a woman, my novio is my girlfriends uncle (she now speaks perfect English), I am moving to Colombia.
Maureen

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 30, 2005, 11:56:

caulfield2 says on May 30, 2005, 12:03:

That brings up another question...how well does the author of this thread speak Spanish? I think if you know Spanish and are the same religion as the other person, that might be better than not sharing religion or language (my own experience). The more commonalities you have, as noted, the easier it is.

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carolain11 says on May 30, 2005, 12:12:

oooohhh ok, now I get it... feel so stupid!

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utopiacowboy says on May 30, 2005, 12:49:

In my case, she has 3 children and I have 4. I'd be lying if I said that there weren't issues from time to time. On the whole though, I would say it has been a positive learning experience for everyone involved.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on May 30, 2005, 13:13:

Not much Spanish.. "I have taken the advice of many posters and I am trying to learn Spanish as fast as possible"

Quote the author

Na......this guy sounds like a nice person, but he really is to say the least, barking up the wrong tree. A thousand people can come on here and tell him the same thing, but I "hear" it in his words that he is determined to embark on this mission. I can't figure it out. He is intelligent. He owns a business, yet sometimes people simply lacks the common sense when it comes to dealing with the obvious. (No offense to the author intended) But, for goodness sakes man, you have kids here. They need you and you want to be traveling to one of the most dangerous country's in the world to find romance.....Sorry, you are not going to convince me or many others that this is a wise move. Your kids, and your business should be your highest priority. If you stay here, go on line, meet and date women from your culture with a common upbringing, I am sure you will find a fine lady. Ok, it may not work.
But I Guarantee you, that you have a much better chance at making a relationship work when you date someone from your own back ground and culture.....

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daver says on May 30, 2005, 20:17:

WFC,

Oh yeah! Glad to hear you are coming. You must give me a call when you get here. You have my email address, so just drop me an email and I will give you my phone number. We'll have some beers...

You are getting some negative comments on this post... people telling you what you should and shouldn't do.

Look... there are two types of people in the world. Those who think they can, and those who think they can't. The thing is, they are both right. The can will, and the can't won't... its that simple.

The first thing you should do (if you don't mind me saying so...) is, since you have already made up your mind to come, is to block out all the negative influences you may have. They will do you no good.

I hope you find the person who you are looking for... certainly a single father looking for a single mother will have more to pick from in Medellin than where you are from (about 1000 km from nowhere... no offense!!).

Take precautions and Medellin will be a safe place for you. About potential women and the validity of bringing them to Canada.... HELL... your in your 40s, you have been married, and you have kids... you don't need other peoples advice on that one.

Looking forward to meeting you,

Dave

Ps. If you try to bring a two-four of blue with you, I won't tell anyone... Scouts Honour.

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Gomezman5 says on May 30, 2005, 20:36:

Yea sure..... And all the world is happy and gay. All we need is peace and love, and everything else will just fall in place.

Made up his mind? That he has done. He will have no problem findins some Paisita hottie that will be more than willing to be swept off her feet to live in the land where money falls from the sky as well as the trees.

(I'm assuming that Canada rains plata just like the US does.) In spite of it's more socialistic approach, I suspect that it does...

Oh well.

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utopiacowboy says on May 30, 2005, 20:47:

Come on G'man, even if he finds a gold digger, they'll both be happy for a while. She'll get what she wants and he'll get what he wants.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on May 30, 2005, 21:04:

UTC..You are right again.ja ja ja....

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WidowerfromCanada says on May 30, 2005, 22:05:

I will paste George Washington's on my head UTC :-) !!! I will paste George Washington’s on my head UTC :-) !!! ... That should help , EH….

I appreciate your comments Gomezman5 and I will be very careful... I am going with my cousin and his paisa wife for 2 weeks.... So I will have people looking out for me...

I have to say again that I am impressed with my cousins wife and her mother in Medellin who are introducing me to single ladies in their family and friends... The woman that I have been talking with on the phone with the daughter that is going in for surgery.... She is a very very good friend of the family and my cousins wife.

Well my primo's wife and her mother have deep sixed her for now because they are concerned that all of her attention is on her daughter.... The mother and the daughter are extremely close and they are starting to wonder how she would treat my kids....

This woman is a very hard worker ( 60 - 80 hours a week ) , a good mother and is a great saver of money... I understand that all her attention should be on her daughter right now... I did arrange for a nice soft doll to be sent the little girl... She likes it a lot... If I made a little girl happy then I am happy.

I am also inviting along Elmo as a translator for me and to fight off all the women.. jajajajajaja..... Elmo's translating donkey service...jajajajajjaja

Caulfield.... I am sorry for your bad experience and pain...

Caballista.... Thank you for your comments... I will be on guard...

Daver.... As long as you don’t tell anyone, I will bring the Labatts Blue...

Jeff

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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daver says on May 31, 2005, 12:18:

Gomezman5 I know you are trying to warn people about the possibility of gold diggers here in Medellin, but give the guy a break.

It may surprise you, but not all women in Medellin are looking to milk a gringo for money, then get a green card, then split.

I know it happens, but 99% of the time, I blame the gringo for not opening his eyes. I have seen 45 to 60 year old men come her, go to a marriage agency, and meet a 25 year old knock-out with fake everything. I believe people here refer to theses as "paid in advance women". All they had to do was take this chica out for a nice meal, buy here close, and wammo... he is having the best sex of life.

Here, the gringo is an idiot. They ignore all the obvious, and just convince themselves that this hot paisa is traditonal, is not like materialistic evil American women, and that the really like them for who they are. Its like an old mouse goiong on a date with a young cat.

But, if you come down to Medellin, and take a more balanced approach to meeting women, you will find that they are not all gold diggers. For one, don't go to the marriage agencies. Second, take your time when you meet a girl. By doing these two things, you have probably avoid 90% of the gold diggers in the entire city.

It just doesn't make sense to tell someone that Medellin has nothing to offer them other than gold diggers. Sure the gold diggers are here, but they are not too hard to spot.

And, as you may or may not know, Canada, USA, and every other country in the world has its share of gold diggers, cheaters, manipulators, liars etc...

Dave

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Hunter says on May 31, 2005, 13:05:

daver Sounds like you are talking about pre pagos, not girls from dating agency, my friend has a dating agency in Medellin and I haven't noticed any knock out girls on the photos that I have seen.

Hunter

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 13:45:

Daver..you indict yourself with your own words !! "I know it happens, but 99% of the time."
Quote Daver

That about says it all. You say it right there. Are you Ok? %99 of the gilrs are gold diggers and people go down to there all the time not realizing or maybe realizing that they are gold diggers. With odds like that, assuming you are correct, any man would have to be dumber than dumb to think he would pick up the %1 who is not the gold digger. Totally rediculous.

So I now ask, why would anyone in their right mind go to a country where danger abounds, where the expenses it great, where a tremendous amount of time in necessary is really necessary to know someone, where you have a couple kids at home who are missing their parent will you are off on a fishing expedition to pick up some hottie that you could not pick up in your own land because of the age difference, where you except for the two or three weeks you are there--on a vacation, never getting to see the woman and socialize with her under honest real life every day circumstances, and speaking of socializing, where you can't even speak the language (except the language of love) because you don't know the language........

Are you getting the message Daver?????

MY SUGGESTION

I stand on my advise. Be smart. Stay home and be the father to your kids and use local resources to find a woman from your locale, that has something in common with you, that speaks your language, that understands your culture, that has a place to fall back on in the event that things are not doing well, instead of feeling like a prisoner where there is no place to go when a break from the relationshiop is needed. I think I make a more compelling argument than you do. Telling this guy to ignore the negative thinking people (like mysedlf) and giving this guy some false sense of security is doing him no good. And by the way, a majority of the people who have posted here...for a change....are taking my side on this issue.

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juanalejo says on May 31, 2005, 14:11:

Mr Gomez This is one of the most insulting posts I have heard of the nonsense people that have nothing more to do in their lifes that insult everything Colombian. Mr Gomez I guess everybody talks from personal experience and in mine all Colombian women are not gold diggers. Not my mother, my sisters, my cousins or anybody related to me or friends of mine. I guess the opposite stands for you as you have such a compeling evidence about it. And do not chear up so quickly, it is not that people are on your side, it so happens that your type of rude and insulting commentaries have become such a permanent reflection of your personality that most of us have simply decided to go live a happy life and allow you to enjoy your permanent hatred of anything Colombian.

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caslug says on May 31, 2005, 14:18:

lighten up GMAN..LOL if the guy wants to take a break for his "situation" and what to go on a 2-3 week vacation, enjoy himself, meet the ladies, find some lovin. How are we to say that it's bad. Granted, i find it odd if he is CHOOSING to go SOLEY to FIND a WIFE/MOTHER.

Beside, as Daver but it best...

"All they had to do was take this chica out for a nice meal, buy here close, and wammo... he is having the best sex of life."

Note the "best sex of(his) life", if anything is worth travelling for it's that. Gosh, knows we men have done more idiotic things in our pursuits of that holy grail. LOL!

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 14:32:

But Caslug...hold on a minute friend His opening post clearly discusses how he thinks he found a woman that he thinks and wants, to be his wife. He even mentions the fact that he discusses it in the context of how his "daughter would like a step mom." Where do you see anything at all in his post that says he is going to go "On a 2-3 week vacation, enjoy himself, meet the ladies, find some lovin."--as you put it. If he said he was going there for the purpose of seeking that type of action, that is a completely different story. That is clearly not his intention. Check out his post again. It sure sounds like a misguided serious intention to me.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 14:40:

Juanalejo...... Your hopelessly lost and completely miss the point. I am not saying what I am saying to be insulting to Colombian people. I would say the same thing if he said he was going to meet a similarly situated woman in Mexcio, Guatemala, China, Singapor, Thailand...or whereever. I don't think that this non latino, non Spanish thinking person has anything in commone with some hot paisa who is looking to leave the country to better her life by marrying some gringo who owns a business in Canada. If you can't see that, then you are a fool.

Let me also add that the only person who stands to loose here is him. He leaves his kids to go on a fishing expedition for a woman in a dangerous country where he (MR Canada) stands out as obviously as a black crow does in a bird cage of cardinals. Telling to go seek a woman under those certain circumstances is idiotic.

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daver says on May 31, 2005, 14:54:

Gomezman5

**I know it happens, but 99% of the time, I blame the gringo for not opening his eyes.**

If you knew how to read, you would understand this to mean:

1. There are gold diggers in Medellin.
2. When a gringo falls for a gold digger, 99% of the time it is his fault.

I never, not once, said that 99% of Medellin women are gold diggers. Please, read more carefully before you put stupid words in my mouth.

**So I now ask, why would anyone in their right mind go to a country.... the expenses it great....where you have a couple kids at home who are missing their parent will you are off on a fishing expedition to pick up some hottie that you could not pick up in your own land because of the age difference, where you except for the two or three weeks you are there--on a vacation, never getting to see the woman and socialize with her under honest real life every day circumstances, and speaking of socializing, where you can't even speak the language (except the language of love) because you don't know the language***


Widower from Canada has PM'd me a few times. I don't think he is looking for a "hottie" and it is insulting to say that he is on "a fishing expedition" and I don't think that he is looking for someone that much younger than himself. Although I am sure he wouldn't mind! You have preconcieved notions here that you are placing on people that you don't know very well.

"Are you getting the message Daver?????"

Yes, but I think your full of it up to your eyeballs. I am married to a woman from Medellin (2.5 years my senior) and I think you are talking out your arse. I am happily married to a woman whose family probably has more money than my own, who spent 5 years in the USA and could have married any dumb gringo she wanted... instead, married me (a Canadian), and we now live in Colombia.

"Stay home and be the father to your kids and use local resources to find a woman from your locale,"

My parents went on extended vacations when I was young. They are both good parents. WFC seems like he has family who would help him out here... he is not a bad father. You really have no right to tell him how to be a parent. He emailed me about his kids... he seems to adore them (he can't stop talking about them) and by saying that he is some how not doing his job as a father is quite insulting.

"local resources"
I wish you knew where WFC is from. I do. There are, I would guess, about 50,000 people within a 400km radius of him.

"I think I make a more compelling argument than you do."

I don't think you have compelled a single person. I think you need to think harder.

"And by the way, a majority of the people who have posted here...for a change....are taking my side on this issue."

Whatever floats your boat pal. And, I think you are wrong again.

Dave

Ps. Hunter... I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If the agencies website has 1000 girls, the guys pick the top 10 most of the time. And the top 10 are usually pretty damn hot!

LOL!

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caslug says on May 31, 2005, 14:59:

GMAN, WFC did mention in later post.. that he is deep sixing the mujeres he was talking with. So he's not going to go JUST to meet her anymore. But as a first time in COL, he will be blown away by all the hotties, especially with all the attention he will be getting. Hopefully he will just go-with-the-flow and enjoy himself with the people, culture, and langauge. I seriously doubt he will in one trip pop-the-question.

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paisa29 says on May 31, 2005, 15:06:

Please stop it! ok guys I do know there are some gold diggers in Medellín, in fact I saw 2 gringos last sunday at Unicentro with that kind of girls, but it is not only here you have the same problem in USA and another countries.

Medellín has more good women than gold diggers, maybe you were looking in the wrong place.

"Fill the earth with the light and warmth of hospitality" Conrad Hilton

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 16:36:

Daver...ok I admit. I misread what you wrote regarding the %99 issue.

Nevertheless, that is not relevant to the issue at hand. The issue is simple. If you want to increase your chance at finding a woman that you can have a long term relationship, you need to start with a woman you have something ---- pardon me...many things in common with. Look Daver, Latinos living in the US have a lot more in common with gringos living in the US. Even Latinos, here in Chicago generally stay with their own. We have enough problems with Puerto Ricans having huge differences with Mexicans even though we speak the same language. The culture is simply different. Period.

On top of all of that, long distance love is just a bunch of nonsense. You NEVER really get to know the person....NEVER. You are a fool if you think you do. I guess you forgot the old Latino dicho. "Amor de lejos es ?????? Rucuerda lo ?? No tengo que completar lo. That rule applies when you have people of the same culture..But these people need a translator just to communicate on the phone...Give me a break. You sound goofy....completely gooofy.

By the way, I did not say that he did not love his kids or that he was abandoning his kids. What I said or at least implied was that Colombia is a dangerous place...Medellin on top of it, for a gringo to be floating around. He is not going to Rome, London, Paris or Seattle. He is their only parent and I for a minute don't think that a parent with 2 kids, the only parent of those 2 kids, should be off to one of the worlds most dangerous places for the purpose of finding the love of his life. If something happens to him in Medellin, his kids will lose their father. I know....you are one of those geniouses who think Colombian, especially Medellin is just like any of the above cities I mentioned. You would have such absurd thoughts.

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greenday says on May 31, 2005, 16:42:

what's wrong... what's wrong with gold-diggers anyway??? All through the history of mankind, women have been attracted to men with money and power...Hell if I was a woman I probably would be too. Wasn't it Jackie Kennedy who stated "the first time you marry for love, the second time you marry for money" ??? I really don't think she was THAT physically attracted to Aristotle Onnasis (sp?)...Hell, go back to Cleopatra, go back to the Biblical days...what's wrong with a woman marrying a guy to improve her situation?? It happens here in the U.S. EVERY DAY...
Hell, I'm fine with the fact that a women is attracted to me because I'm successful, and can offer her a good life...what's wrong with that??
Jeff, don't let anyone here change your mind...go to Medellín, have a great time, NOTHING bad is going to happen to you...your kids with thank you someday when they have a wonderful step mom...even if she is a gold-digger...
Life is short, follow your dreams!!!

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utopiacowboy says on May 31, 2005, 16:42:

You got that right, Daver! My wife is "milking" me but it's not for dough! After she got her conditional green card the other day, I told her, wow, you've got to keep "milking" me for two more years.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 16:42:

Paisa29 Medellin......Colombia, for that matter has many good women. But when it comes to Gringos my dear, I really think you would be amazed how many more gold diggers than good women come out of the wood work.

What kind of woman, but a gold digger would marry a man that she can't communicate with, and go live in a country far away from her family and fiends where she does not have a clue of what the culture is like. You would not call that a woman with idle curiosity or a woman looking to expand their horizon. This is especially true when the woman is 20-25 years younger than they guy. Do you think a woman would go out with one of their own (Colombiano) that was 25 years older than her if the guy was not able to help her financially? Yea sure.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 16:52:

Greenday......I never said there I never said there is anything wrong with Gold diggers. But I will say this, you don't have to travel all the way to Colombia if that is what you are looking for.

Consider this...and this is important...real important.
First
There is a difference between a man having a relationship with a woman knowing that she is a gold digger wherein both parties know exactly what is happening and what each others goals and objectives are.

Second
It is quite another thing for a male to travel to another part of the world, not knowing the language, the culture, or anything of a sort, thinking that he is truely going to find the woman of his dreams, that will want to come back to his country and be the happy, sensitive, wife and mother of his children. When all you really have going on here is a woman acting in a duplicitous manner, and the man being able to recognize this fact.

Look....a fish may love a bird, but where are they going to live?

Fish live in the sea, and birds live in the trees.
A frog can live in both places.....so marry a frog and you will be covered all around

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daver says on May 31, 2005, 16:56:

"I know....you are one of those geniouses who think Colombian, especially Medellin is just like any of the above cities I mentioned. You would have such absurd thoughts."

Yes, of course I am one of those geniuses who thinks Medellin is the safest place in the world. Just look at all my posts where I have said such absurd things...

There you go again, having preconcieved notions about people you know nothing about.

I have posted many, many, many things about safety concerns in Medellin. Not once have I said that Medellin is as safe as these other places.

You say that Colombia is a dangerous place... Medellin on top of that. Well, Colombia is not the safest place, but Medellin is now considered safe for tourist. I live in Medellin, take cabs, busses, the Metro, walk at night, and have been to not so nice places.... it is not as bad as you think. I have been to Chicago before, and there are places there that are worse than places in Medellin... Inglewood ring a bell?

My wife and I may speak the same language, but we are completely different people. Opposites attract, don't they? Do we have anything in common... sure, we both breath air and eat food... we have mutual respect, and understand each others differences.

A lot of what you are saying has some truth to it, but you cannot simply make a black and white situation out of it. The guy wants to meet someone, and he is hoping that this person can be his wife, lover, and a parent to his child. You imply that he is not capable of figuring out the good from the bad here in Medellin, while I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

This city is an amazing place. It is not as dangerous as many people think. The women are beautiful... some are gold diggers (like in any city) but most are not. I think that if someone comes here to "search" for someone and not necessarily to "find" someone, than this is not a bad idea at all. In fact, I am looking forward to sitting down with him and having a good old fashioned Canadian conversation about hockey, beer, and women.

I have met perhaps 25 to 30 non-Colombians who are visiting or living in Medellin in the past 2.5 months. I just went to an American/Colombiana wedding on Saturday (the American being a memeber of PBH) and they can barely communicate, and they both seem happier than pigs in Sh!t. They do not consider themselves to be in a dangerous place, yet you do, from your place in Chicago... Whatever... this city is safe if you make it safe for yourself, and there are plenty of women here who would make great wives or girlfriends.

I happen to know about 30 women here pretty well... about 29 I would describe as not being gold diggers.

Look, give WFC the benefit of the doubt. He has been married before, has been around the block, he is no spring chicken. The only reason he is single is because of tragity. I personally think that he can decide for himself who will be a good potential partner for him, and a good mother to his children.

Dave

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greenday says on May 31, 2005, 17:01:

gomez you lost me on the fish, bird, and frog thing...but hey, don't be so negative...MANY men have gone to Colombia and have found brides...yes, some have failed, but then again MANY have had success...If that is what Jeff wants to do, then I think it's great...
Gomez, I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you, besides, I think you're a good guy, but hey, Jeff will be just fine, and if anything, a trip to Colombia will be a great experience for him. Even if he fails, he needs to do this for himself. I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat on whether Colombia is safe or dangerous...I've made MANY trips over the years there...have already made 3 this year, and will be going to Medellín in a few weeks. I wouldn't go if I thought my life was in danger...sure, something could happen there (I pray not), but life is a risk, and many people die here in the U.S. in accidents (the majority happen within 6 miles of their homes)...
Wish Jeff luck Gomezman, I think that is the least you could do...
Have a good evening!!

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daver says on May 31, 2005, 17:03:

"and go live in a country far away from her family and fiends where she does not have a clue of what the culture is like."

Well, I have done this for my Colombian wife, and I am no gold digger...trust me!

Cowboy.... HOLEY MOLEY you two seem to be REALLY loving things! I am glad things are going well between you and your gold digging Medellin wife! I should I say "milking" Colombian wife. I guess you keep the gold in your pants!

Does a conditional green card mean they have to stay with you for 2 years? All I have is a Colombian Marriage certificate and I have no idea what I agreed to!! I said "si" than "no" then signed my name... I should have it translated so I know my rights!!

Oh, I gotta go, terrorist are launching missles at my apartment, and someone is on the phone giving me death threats....

Dave

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cdn says on May 31, 2005, 17:04:

Patience When I met my wife in Bogota, I wasn't looking for a long term relationship, just to do my best in my work, socialize a bit, maybe date a little, and get the heck outta Dodge. It took quite a while before I met her, and at first, she didn't want much to do with me. I had to work at it, be real nice and mind my manners, just like regular people, but boy I'm glad I did.

Basically, when women would approach me, I felt a little wierd, like a choice little cut of punta de anca, but if it feels like a normal boy-pursuing-girl kinda thing, I say why not take a closer look.

Anyway, good luck buddy, and don't swing at the first pitch.

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caslug says on May 31, 2005, 17:21:

GMAN, don't take so seriously... Why get your panties in bunch over this, it only internet. WFC isn't your relative or best friend. I know you have the best intention and giving him "safe" advice. But give your advice, if they don't take it don't feel bad. Beside WFC did acknowledge your advice and will take it into cosideration. he'll either have a great time(most likely) or if he's clueless and gets in some trouble(very rare). Either way there's nothing more you can do. let it go

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caslug says on May 31, 2005, 17:24:

to WFC.. Go have fun, stay safe, listen to locals, both foreign and domestic. Especially get opinions of foriegners(ie, Daver and others) who are there. Find out from them what problems they've encounter and how to avoid them.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 17:31:

I think this debate has gone a bit far afield All I was trying to say was that common sense dictates that you have a GREATER chance of success in a marraige if you marry someone from your own culture. It by no means is an absolute. But when Daver originally took off after me for making my warnings. He focused in on me immediately for being negative. Well, most people out here say "good luck", or "go for it" or something of that nature. Somebody, at the risk of bringing on the ire of others, has to say, "Hey wait a minute" there are woman out there looking to take you for a ride to live a better life. Daver, you don't have to go to go to Colombia to find a woman that is looking to use a guy. I am aware of that. But I have an old cliche that I always use if you want to see how well a marriage will suceede.
2 points.....and by the way, when I spoke at the American Society of Matrimonial Lawyers, I got a resounding agreement.

first.
Make sure that your spouse (woman or man) is your BEST friend. Not a good friend....a BEST friend. Best friendships tend to have stability and resilience that regular friendships simply don't have. If any of you look at who you consider your best friend, I will bet that most of them would say that your best friend has been there for you many years. If your spouse is your best friend, it will make it that much more likely that your marriage will be a long lasting one.

I will also add that study after study, has proven behind any debate, that the longer 2 people date under real life circumstances the more likely the marital relationship will last So I am not talking about a situation where the man is on a vacation in la la land beautiful Colombia. I am talking about a man and woman being together and having to deal with each others day to day pressures that NEVER surface when a man is visiting Colombia.

In this case, best frienships can never develop.. Infactuation, good company (companionship) is all a person ever sees. What is so hard to understand about this concept?

Second
Never marry "down." This is particularly true in a country like the US, where if you marry a woman and she is dependant on you. If you end up having to divorce, not only do you have to pay child support up the you know what.....but in most states you pay what used to be called alimony and now (in most states) is called seperate maintenance....And boy do you pay!!! If you marry someone that financialy is in a better position than you, you can avoid that problem

In the meantime...Greenday...my warnings have been sounded. You are right...at this point is wish the guy luck..even if I think he should just stay at home and keep looking for a woman in his own backyard

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 17:40:

Caslug Thanks....I'm ok.

Frankly, I don't know the guy, and I wish him what I would wish myself.
But, what irks me is when I make a point, that runs against the grain here, I get trashed and ridiculed for doing so. A bunch of people start accusing me of being "anti Colombian" "Negative" and related, when the only thing I am trying to do is say that I think from my experience as an attorney, that in marriages where people have more in common, they tend to last longer. That is not my opinon by the way. That has been prooven again and again, in study after study.

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utopiacowboy says on May 31, 2005, 18:06:

Yeah, Daver, that's exactly what it means! She has stick around for two more years. I told her she really should have considered the $5000. Of course whenever I say something like that she makes a pouty little face and says "Amor!" in an exasperated tone. Damm, just thinking about it makes me want to go home and....

G'man, yes, you are handing out good advice just like all the good advice that I received before my first trip to Colombia. Unfortunately I am the worst advertisement there is because I struck it rich in them thar hills of Medellin. So now all the young prospectors think they'll find gold too. More power to 'em even if the only gold to be found is in the pelotas in their pants.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cdn says on May 31, 2005, 20:28:

Just a thought Gman, forgive me if I'm out of line, but is it possible that your experience as an attorney, and the studies that you refer to, have created a particular kind of bias in your thinking? After all, nobody goes to a marriage attorney because they are happy in love, and maybe the studies focus on failed marriages, not successful ones? The stats in North America indicate that half of all marriages fail, so the overall odds aren't good anyway. Marriage is a risk, emotionally, financially, and potentially disastrous for all concerned. As a matter of fact, according to a recent article in the NYTimes, love isn't even close to being rational.

But there it is. Personally, even if everything crashes and burns, I'm glad I found out what all those songs are about.

Cheers, and thanks for the caveats. It's obvious that you are expressing yourself in an effort to help people avoid problems.

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2005, 20:41:

WidowerfromCanada says on May 31, 2005, 20:47:

Gomezman , Daver , UTC and everybody....

1) I am looking at this in a very analytical manner. I am not making any rash decisions when I go down there.

2) I agree with you that whoever I marry will have to be my best friend... a female best friend that is...

3) I have my cousin’s wife family to help look out for me and to help me smell out gold diggers...

4) The woman that my cousin wife and her mother deep-sixed for now was because they felt she could not give me the proper attention due to her daughter’s health concerns...

5) My estimation of this lady has gone up because she is not going gah gah over me and she has her daughter as the number one priority right now... Her daughter should be her number 1 priority not me...

6 ) I am going to medellin to meet women yes.... I am also going on a holiday to relax and learn Spanish...

7) I am not looking for just any hottie.... I am looking for a smart , kind , loving , loves kids , family oriented woman... It is okay if she is beautiful...

8) My late wife was very beautiful... She came within one spot of going to the Miss Canada Pageant when she was 18... I am not awe struck with beautiful women... They have to have beautiful hearts to awe struck me...

9) I am not going to Colombia to get married or engaged... I would have to get to know a woman very well before I thought about marriage...

10) If I did get serious with a special woman... I would be very careful... How do those condoms go on again ? jajajajja.... NO.. not that kind of careful... I will be very very careful of seeing the true colors of a woman...

11) If a woman seems very interested in just money then I will have my answer... I am looking for a woman with a good character...

12) The next woman that my primo's paisa wife and her family are introducing me to is a 40 year old woman with a 6 year old daughter...

13) Yesssss Utopia Cowboy.... I am looking for gold in them thar hills also ... Where was that hill that you were panning at again ?

14) My late wife was a full blooded Ojibway ( Chippewa ) Princess... Her culture , religion and was totally different then mine... She was fluent in her Ojibway Indian language... I learned a lot of her language and I can carry on a conversation in it... There are only about 7,000 people left who speak the language...

15) I am picking up Spanish very fast.... I see a need for me to be able to speak Spanish fairly well if any relationship with a Latina woman has a serious chance...

16 ) I met my late wife in a very odd and different way... We met on the old phone group chat lines in 1992... I am used to different ways of looking at things and my thinking is very flexible...

17 ) I am hot blooded Canadian male so I will not fight off the charms of a woman too much… That does not mean I would get married…

18) I am giving serious thought to your safety concerns for me…

19) I am not looking for a 20 year girlfriend or wife.... I will not go lower then 21..... hahahahahahahahahah.... I think 25-26 years old will be the lowest I go.....

20 ) I am interested in seeing some of Medellin tourist , historical and cultural sites...

21 ) I have only one thing to say now..... BLACK JACK...........

Jeff

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 20:57:

CDN You are correct about half......actually now more than half of the marriages fail. But.......we (family law attorneys, and people in the social services) know that having a successful marraige is something more than a random action. Community of interest, excellent communication, dedication to the marital unit, are some very important characteristics that help reduce....not insure.....but reduce the possibility of marital discourse and subsequent seperation and/or divorce. That being said, given the fact that language barriers impeede communication ability and thus the ability to talk through a problem or differences, along with cultural differences which act as a stressor on the marital relationship in addition to the everyday stresses, it is only logical to conclude that the there is a less likely chance of having a successful marraige.

In other words, they complicate the every day problems that people have when married because they are problems that occur in addition to the every day problems that people from the same culture have.
simply stated, they make matters worse....far worse. I cannot beging to tell you how many failed marraiges I see when people cannot communicate will together. Language barriers make realistic communication nearly impossible.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 21:10:

OK GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Widower my man I am happy to read your last post WidowerfromCanada.....really happy.
So with that said, at least Daver can now understand one thing, and that is that Widower's post is a result of the NEGATIVE...or somewhat pessimistic view that I have of the entire situation. The "go have a good time" attitude never works with me..Good honest debate....that I have promoted has now caused him to be a little more cautious and open minded, about what to expect or what might or might not happen.

I have thick skin. I have been going through this debate with people here since I have been on this site. When people agree with me, they do so with a caveat. But when they disagree with me, they go tearing into me.
That's fine.

So after reading Widower's last post, I feel confident that he will be a bit more open minded about things than if I had not posted my comments. Pardon me for blowing my own horn.

So Widowerer, go there and enjoy...but observe....observe closely, what the woman's intentions are. Don't wear your rose colored glasses. Ok?????????

My Best.........G5

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cdn says on May 31, 2005, 21:15:

oops... ...Gman, we've been blackjacked. 21 things is some pretty fine work.

But we agree that successful marriage is more than a roll of the dice, so let's throw that stats out the window, if only for now, if only to wish WFC well, in his quest, whatever it may turn out to be.

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cdn says on May 31, 2005, 21:21:

oops again Darn, Gman, you got your last reply in before me.

Nice work.

Peace, Out, as the youngsters used to say.

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Gomezman5 says on May 31, 2005, 21:49:

Thanks CDN I am with you my man......So with that said, I think I have added all I care to add to this thread.....

My best to all

G5

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daver says on May 31, 2005, 22:30:

WFC,

As I knew all along, you have your i's dotted and your t's crossed, you are well prepared, and I wish you luck!

Give me shout when you are here... would be glad to show you around a bit. My wife wants to meet you too. You won't be going to any dangerous places with me... I'm a little on the wimpy side when it comes to dangerous neighbourhoods.

"I am looking for gold in them thar hills also ... Where was that hill that you were panning at again ?"

WCF, stand just about anywhere in Medellin... then look south, west, east, and north... you will see nothing but hills! They are full of gold (and some gold diggers! Not just Cowboy LOL!). I think the hills U Cowboy is talking about is El Poblado... you will drive down this very hill as you enter Medellin from the airport. You can see these hills on my photo gallery (Click "daver" and go from there)

Your trip to Medellin will not as dangerous as people may lead you to believe.

There is a direct flight from Toronto to Bogota. It arrives about 2 hours before the last flight to Medellin. There are 3 flights a week to Bogota, and 3 flights a week to TO. I can't remember the days, but they alternate. My scariest moment ever in Colombia was trying to figure out the Bogota airport without knowing Spanish. I got so stressed and nervous that I thought I lost my passport! (Yes, it was in my hand!)

Daver

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WidowerfromCanada says on Jun 1, 2005, 08:45:

Daver , Gomez , Cdn and all Daver: Picture this street hockey in a local parking lot... lmao... carrrr...

Gomez: I thank you for all your comments and input...

Cdn: Have a great day , ehhhhhhh...

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 10:00:

WFC,

Wait until you get here, and you will know how funny that is. There are cars everywhere, and they don't slow down for things like people on the road. They are not much better in parking lots.

You do see kids playing soccer in the street, but usually without nets.

I remember when I first got my drivers license and how I used to feel bad when I broke up a game of road hockey with my stupid car.... so many memories.

I was watching three kids kick the ball around in Belen (neigbourhood of Medellin) and one of the kids mother was calling him in for supper. Just like a Canadian kid, he delayed his mother until she came out of the house screaming for him to come. Then he ran in the house, totally ashamed of his mother. I had a good laugh over that one.

Dave

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 1, 2005, 10:43:

Amidst all the alleged cultural differences (and there are some), the most important thing remains the relationship between the two individuals. My wife and I always relate to one another in this way and not as "El Gringo" and "the Colombiana". We have the most harmonious and tranquil relationship imaginable.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 12:25:

U-Cowboy,

I couldn't agree more. I look at the relationship between and my wife, and I think the cultural differences are a bonus. We learn so much from each other... Understanding and compromise are so important, even in relationships where the couples are very similar.

Dave

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greenday says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:18:

cultural differences Not to be too hard on Gomezman, but his theory that a relationship between 2 people of different cultures is doomed is preposterous...The U.S. is a melting pot of cultures...there is NO country on the face of the earth who has successfully melded cultures like the U.S....hell, just look back in history...whites and blacks have successfully melded, Native American Indians & whites, during WWII MANY U.S. soldiers returned with brides from Europe, the South Pacific, also throughout the history of the armed forces soldiers have married women from countries where they have been stationed...hell even in my family...let's see...in the mid 1800's my great-great grandfather and his brother moved to Canada from France and married 2 Indian girls...another of my great-great grandfathers from Germany married an English girl here in the states...It's absolutely absurd to state that you should marry a woman from your own culture and "backyard"...everywhere you look in this country you see Asians and whites mixing, hispanics & whites, etc....and for the most part they have SUCCESSFUL relationships...

Now, regarding another preposterous statement, "a man should only marry up, not down"...please...give me a break!!! So I am supposed to look for a woman who is financially better off than me in order for our relationship to have any chance at success??? In the history of mankind, only a small percentage of men have been able to marry a woman of this sort!! And, do you want to know the main reason why divorce rates have sky-rocketed over the last 35-40 years??? It's because women have become more independent, and are relying less on men. American women as a whole just don't need men from a financial stand point. They want to be "independent"...
Back in the day, the MAN was the bread winner, the woman stayed at home and took care of the house & children, thus less divorces, since the woman NEEDED the man, and of course the man NEEDED the woman...
My advice...find a traditional woman in a foreign country (like Colombia) who WANTS to be a woman, and who wants her man to be a MAN, sign a pre-nuptial agreement, and live happily ever after...
Hey, maybe I could become a lawyer specializing in marital problems...on second thought, no...I couldn't handle the cut in pay...
Have a good evening!!

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:41:

Greenday......I never said what you I never said that relations between 2 cultures are doomed ones. Did I?

There is however a clear difference between a Latina woman and an American man coming from 2 different walks of life, living here in the US and dating each other in a normal fashion---versus----An American or in this case Canadian man living in Canada, having a long distance affair with a Colombian girl where neither of them have virtually anything in common with each other.

For God sakes man, they cannot even communicate because they don't speak the same language. This melting pot argument applies to people from different walks of life who are already living here and have assimilated here.

How do you even remotely compare the 2 realms which are so dramatically different?

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greenday says on Jun 1, 2005, 17:50:

if they can't communicate then... how is WFC running up 1 hour long phone conversations??? give the guy a little credit...
I swear Gomezman, I know you're a great guy, but with your thinking, how in the world did a colombiano like you ever make it to the U.S. learn english, graduate college, law school, pass the bar exam, and establish a (hopefully) successful law practice??? There are just too many examples out there of people doing JUST what WFC is about to do, and are SUCCESSFULL...are there failures?? yes, but I would be willing to wager that the failures aren't at as high a percentage as the divorce rate for "normal" marriages here in the U.S.

Also, out of curiousity, please elaborate on your theory of "marrying up"...
thanks!!

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:10:

You are right.....they are not as high, They are higher!! They are higher.......much higher. That is a little know figure that the dating services do not want you to know. If you have a year, I will be able to go on and on as to why. I certainly touch on it in my above threads.

I did not even elaborate on the concept of family. Colombians tend to be close. You take a Colombian girl, or man, and pull her away from the social support network --mother, father, sisters, cousins and even life long friends, and place that person with a spouse in a foreigh country,,,with a spouse that she barely knows or understands except for telephone conversation (with a translator---good grief) and you think that that spouse is an effective substitute. Where does the woman when things go wrong? She has NO social network of her own kind to consult, to comfort her when the trauma of a lovers quarell, or a mere misunderstanding .....(and boy there will be a lot of those)takes place.

The woman comes here and she instantly loses almost every element of independence that she had when in Colombia. She becomes totally dependent on the man in every way shape or form. Now that leads to another point that has not yet been brough up by any person here and it is for this reason I decided to enter another post.

It is called Abuse.....yes abuse......Both physical and mental. Matrimonial attorneys that in many of these instances, these relationships can be down right dangerous to the woman. Many of these men importing wives frio third world countries, often seek these women because they want to be able to have more control over their women. They want even more control over the woman than she otherwish would have had from the men that tend to be machista in their own societies.
A certain psychology develops with many of these men that feels that these women owe them a huge debt of gratitude for "taking them out" of a bad economic situation. These men become very abusive. Look, where are these womena exported from? The come from third world or quasi third world country where the american drean is just that...a dream.
These women often do not know what they are getting to until they are here and often it is too late.

Oh please the stories go on and on. Of course I am not saying this happens all the time....but man it happens a lot. I know it. I have seen it several times. I am ashamed of what crap I see men doing to these women

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greenday says on Jun 1, 2005, 18:18:

who's talking about dating services??? WFC is NOT using dating services...
If you have some statistics to back up your claims (from a reliable research and/or government agency) then post your sources and the studies they were based on (that is regarding men who marry Colombianas who were introduced to them via FRIENDS, not agencies)...if not, I will ask the jury to disregard your retort and order it to be stricken from the record...
Ok counselor, you can now proceed!!

Damn, is it THIS easy to be an attorney??...but like I said, I'd have to take a cut in pay...so forget it...and I'd have to work twice as hard...

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:39:

i admit,,,,,WFC is not using a debating service but I can only tell you what I know from being in the business. I do not feel compelled to have to roll out statistics every time I make an assertion about an area I have some familiarity. If you want to disproove my assertion, you find the statistics that says something to the contrary.

That being said, I can tell you that either NBC's Dateline or CBS's 60 minutes did do a program about the problems....serious problems that foreign wives had encountered when marrying men they had met through a dating service. I have to believe there was at least some basis for this for them to air an entire section of a news program on the matter.

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WidowerfromCanada says on Jun 1, 2005, 19:57:

If I met a special woman... I do have a support system.. If I met a special woman from Colombia.... I do have some part of a support network set up for her... My cousins paisa wife and my other cousin latina wife... All within 4 miles of our new home we are moving into this late august...

I will post more later tonight...

Gomezman.... These ladies are being introduced to me by my cousins paisa wife and her family.... Do you not think that they have my best interests at heart ?

Love is like a butterfly , if you chase it you will not catch it but you can hope the butterfly of love lands on your shoulder.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 1, 2005, 20:22:

WFC These recent posts were in no way intented to question your intentions or wisdom at this point. My last post addressed to you says it all. I have confidence that you will be careful and prudent in your handling of this matter. Frankly, I was not going add anything else to this thread, but Greenday found a way to lure me back in here again.

In any event, my assertions were being made to those who were going the route of using dating services. Since that clearly does not apply to you, my remarks are not geared to your intentions.....

Once again, I wish you the best, but I do ask that you go into this thing with a skeptical eye. You really need to ask yourself is this woman really worth all the special drain?,,,,It will clearl be more of a drain than the girl you would be dating around the corner. You have to think about the time, the effort and special attention that will be needed. You say you will learn Spanish. But it will be a very long time before you will be able to have conversations that truely explain your feelings and intentions about a given situation. Also, remember, your kids will also have problems communicating.....

This is going to be a hell of a lot of work. And invariably, you will not be able to dedicate as much time to your family and business......WFC....what you will see in Colombia will be a party. No work, no responsibilities, no bad days. The real test will NOT be in Colombia, the real test will be when she gets to Canads. And, no matter how well you plan for her support network, you will never have any idea how well she will respond to being away from her family and close friends until she gets to Canada. You "artificialy" even with the best of intentions, creating a social support network of other Latinos in Canada, can in no way represent in any shape or form, the type of relationships that she has carved out over the years with those that are closest to her.....Please keep that in mind...

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Crazy4Cali says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:19:

Come on... Tossing around anecdotal evidence of anything is mighty lame. Sure there are are abuse stories, divorce stories, and all manner of other horrible things that happen with "imported" spouses, but what makes those anecdotes any more valid then the happy ones posted here? Not to mention all those happy people who DON'T complain all the time about their spouse?

I would imagine that one problem with being an attorney practicing in family law is that you see the worst-case scenario on a daily basis to the point where it becomes the norm for you. Remember that there are still some happy people not engaging the services of a divorce lawyer so just be sure to count them in your analysis.

I'm not going to debate the 50% divorce rate (having contributed to it, myself) and I think the only valid points made in all this are the ones that actually point out some of the differences (e.g. the latina support network, close ties to family, importance of communication, cultural views of family life and duties, etc.)

But lies, damn lies and statistics aside, it is still important in any relationship to consider the underlying factors such as love, communication, support, honesty, integrity, etc. Without those you will certailny become another statistic regardless of the language.

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daver says on Jun 1, 2005, 22:45:

From Gomezman5

"So with that said, I think I have added all I care to add to this thread.....My best to all"

I knew you weren't finished. I KNEW IT!!!! LOL!!!!!

WFC... Why do you keep butting into this thread? You are no longer needed! LOL!!! You've created a monster, now let us argumentative types handle it! Just mind your own business now LOL!!!

Dave

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greenday says on Jun 2, 2005, 04:57:

Hey Daver... As Gomezman stated above...It's my fault that he got back into the fray because I "lured" him back in...no Gomezman, I didn't intend to "lure" you back in...I just think your posts on this thread are TOTAL nonsense...I think there is something a little more deep-seeded in your contrarian viewpoints for those who seek a foreign bride. Why does it bother you so much?? What is your past relationship history and present?? Something is eating you up inside, and please, it isn't WFC's best interests that motivate you in your anti-foreign bride campaign.
Fact is, as someone posted above, all of the negatives you cite are antecdotal at best...yes, in your line of work you see a few of the failures, but in your line of work you NEVER see or hear about the thousands of successes. Dateline or whatever TV show never hears about the successes either...they, like you, need to focus on the negative in order to get ratings. Please, you can't cite statistics, you can only relate to "several" incidences of failure, and then you have to rely on Dateline NBC...hell, let's bring in the National Inquirer while your at it.
Sorry Gomezman, you are so far off base on this it's silly...and quite frankly, you've done NOTHING to prove your case. None of your posts above would ever be accepted as fact in a court of law...I hope you do better for your paying clients than you do here on PBH.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 2, 2005, 09:07:

Greenday "Total Nonsense"...And what sir is your profession that you feel thay you can even remotely address the issue intelligently? I think my experience in my line of work would give me a somewhat more experience than you have. Ahhh, I missed it. You are a psychologist. You told me as much with your contention that I have a "Deep seeded conmtrarian viewpoint." And you said "Something is eating me up inside." I am "bothered so much."

I have my opinions and I would hope that you would respect them. I did not go on to attack you personally as you did to me. I should point out that if I want to debate the issue until the cows come home, that is my perogative to do so.

When you proceede to attack me both personally and professionally, it is you sir that looses credibility on this forum. I have debated with many. And I have stood my ground, but rarely have I encountered anyone that upon disagreeing with them, do they resort to personal attacks as you have both now, and in the past.

At this point, I will no longer address any of your posts, due to the fact that I am of the opinion that you lack the capacity to debate intelligently.

Fire away your closing shot(s). Take comfort in knowing that you can have the last word without a response from this end.

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lpdiver says on Jun 2, 2005, 10:06:

WFC Go and enjoy. Maybe the odds are against you; maybe not. Either wawy the results will be 100% yours. Personally; I think you are taking a great approach using aquaintances to do the "matchmaking".

I married a paisa from Medellin against a great deal of "silent" opposition from my family and now they all think I am a rocket scientist and made a wonderful decision.

In the end you have to please yourself, follow your heart. I think your odds of success in Medellin are much greater than other places.


Tony

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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greenday says on Jun 2, 2005, 10:50:

Gomezman Please,if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen (which it looks like you have done)...you lost the debate fair and square, with not much effort on my part.
BTW: You insulted WFC far more than I ever insulted you when you had the audacity to infer that at some point he would either physically or mentally abuse (or both) his future bride.
No sir, I don't have to be an attorney or a psychologist to stand up to you or your twisted views on this issue.
So tell us Gomezman, how bad did that Colombiana hurt you, and how much money did she take from you???

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daver says on Jun 2, 2005, 17:18:

Since we are making fun of lawyers I have a good one (not trying to add fuel to the fire....)

One day the Devil approached God... he was in need of a mechanical engineer. Hell was in bad shape, and only bad engineers go to hell.

God, decided to lend the Devil his best mechanical engineer... besides, heaven was in good shape, and the engineer had little to do. The Devil promised God he would return the engineer in 6 months.

6 months passed, and the Devil did not return the engineer. God gave the Devil a call and asked how things were going. The Devil commented that things could not be better. The air conditioning was working at peak performance, the elevators were running like never before, everything was automated, and being in Hell, the engineer was allowed to break the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and now the Devil had perpetual motion to help him out.

God reminded the Devil that it was time for the engineer to return. The Devil told God that there was no way he was giving the engineer back. God threatened to sue the Devil.

The Devil replied "where are you going to find a lawyer?"

Dave
2001 - Bachelors of Applied Science - Mechanical Engineering
University of Ottawa

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greenday says on Jun 2, 2005, 17:49:

hey, take it easy on Gomezman now since we chased him off this thread, he has turned his attention to sending me silly private messages...
Hey WFC, maybe when you go to Medellín you can find Gomez a girl too...someone to occupy his time...he is way too miserable, and has too much time on this hands...
frankly, I'm kind of worried about him...

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 2, 2005, 18:15:

Yea I admit it I am desperately in need of help H-E-L-P**** M-E !!!!

Call Kernow62. I just know he is due to pop in here any second/minute

By the way, Greenday is not so bad....in fact, I admit..I am a bit envious of him. He is going to Medellin, and I have stay in my stupid office all day. Maybe that's it??? Greenday may really have a point.
I tell everyone not to find a Colombian women because in reality I am upset with the fact that I can't be there doing the same!! I will have to give that some thought. I think I am getting better already!!

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daver says on Jun 2, 2005, 18:41:

...and the plot thickens.....

I would side with U-Cowboy and say that this site is ridiculous, but I guess I have contributed to some of these ridiculous posts... Just soooooo easy to be obnoxious over the internet!

Dave

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 2, 2005, 19:23:

Yeah, Daver, it's moronic but I must admit that I contribute to the idiocy of the site too. It's an entertaining stupidity.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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greenday says on Jun 3, 2005, 04:16:

Gomezman back again!! "Ok, ok I promise I won't post on this thread anymore...I just can't help it...I have no social life, you guys at PBH are the only friends I have...ok, ok.. I promise this is the last time I'll post on this thread...this is the last word you'll hear from me on this thread, I promise!! I mean it, I'm not responding anymore to Greenday's comments...he's just luring me back in...it's his fault...this is my last post here, I swear..."

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