Colombia Experts Revisited

jinksmiester says on Aug 12, 2007, 07:10:

Codazzi...i think what you said about the only experts bieng born and raised colombian is accurate.The ones who struggle from day to day to put food on the table or just to survive are the exsperts.Also the ones who work and rise above in an economy that most often does not have an abundant suppy of fair paying jobs available. They are the exsperts....ive been to colombia 12 or thirteen times...but i hav,nt lived and exsperienced it like these people have..nor am i stupid or arrogant enough to think that makes me an exspert in any sense.
Im just a guy thats seen the tip of the ice berg...but im happy to see that and to learn about colombia..there is a lot to see and learn and colombia bieng the beautiful lady that she is ..has a lot to offer.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

Man Tequila says on Aug 12, 2007, 07:43:

Hmmm... not too many things left on my expert list. Maybe you could recommend a place where I could get a T-shirt printed with "Colombian Expert" written in both official languages? (English and French)... What sort of fool calls themself expert at anything?

If you have more than 10 stamps from the D.A.S. in your passport,does that mean your a
Colombian expert.
If you have played ,the U.S, immigration K visa waiting game, does that make you a Colombia expert.
If you stuck your last 100 peso moneda, in a video poker machine, does that make you a Colombian expert.
If you sent, more than 5 Moneygrams to your novia, does that make you a Colombia expert.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

gabolicious says on Aug 12, 2007, 08:29:

.... the only thing I have to say is:

- I am not a colombia expert just a colombia lover... and in someways I think all of us here are..

Maybe we can share some experiences, some of us may have more experience than others in some subjects... but at the end I think we all are Colombia lovers...

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

Man Tequila says on Aug 12, 2007, 08:35:

If you sent more than 5 Moneygrams to your novia, maybe sometimes it is better to have loved than lost? ;)

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

jinksmiester says on Aug 12, 2007, 09:42:

If you can consume 4 arepas and 8 chorizos in under 2 minites flat while sucking down 3 club colombia...does that make you an exspert...lol

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

jinksmiester says on Aug 12, 2007, 09:43:

no...probably just makes you a swill pig...

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

greg says on Aug 12, 2007, 10:58:

Even though i stayed at a Holiday Inn last nite i still don`t consider myself any where near being an expert

C69Z28 says on Aug 12, 2007, 15:39:

I grew up in Colombia. Dad worked for the Govt. Went to school there.. traveled all over.. have been back so many times that Ive had two page extensions in 3 different passports.. I married a beautiful Colombian woman.. I have the Cedula Ext. Ive tried to visit everywhere I could in Colombia.. But after all that.. I dont think anyone.. in one lifetime, or two or three for that matter, could be an expert on all of Colombia.

Leeroy says on Aug 12, 2007, 19:37:

The definition of "expert" depends necessarily on the definition of the (type of) knowledge required to make said person an expert. Or, rather, if an expert is someone who knows a lot of things, then what things should that expert know?

If we consider knowledge as factual information, then a "Colombia expert" would be someone who knows statistical (and other) information about the country - say... its GDP, population, political history, economic structure, etc... This would not have to be a Colombian, indeed many foreign politicians, diplomats and business-people may be considered more "expert" than the average Colombian citizen. Taking this perspective, someone could be a "Colombia expert" without ever having been inside the country.

But the "knowledge=information" paradigm is frowned upon in modern epistomology - surely "being knowledgable" is more than just being able to recite facts and figures?

Knowledge also equates to personal experience. Drinking aguila and eating empanadas fall into this category. It would be wrong, however, to argue that some experiences should be valued as "more authentic" than others - a dirt poor displaced single mother in rural Colombia has experiences just as valid as a well-off Colombian (or indeed ex-pat) living in Rosales, they all add up to "The Colombian Experience" (albeit to very different sides of it). How would we decide, then, as to who is "an expert"? Put simply, I would reason that it breaks down into a) How MUCH experience you have (i.e. how many years, months, whatever) and b) How MANY experiences you have (how much variety your experience holds).

A dirt-poor Colombian who has never left their village in 50 years may have more time logged in Colombia than a foreign diplomat who has been here 3, but that diplomat has probably been to more places within the country, (quite possibly) met more people and has (again, probably) been witness to more diverse aspects of the country than our aforementioned campesino. Possibly, the most "knowledgable" person in this respect would be a Colombian who grew up in poverty but raised themself economically/socially - all the while living and working in different areas of the country. In this way, they have logged a lot of experience both qualitatively and quantitatively.

But, it is not just experiences viewed externally (as expanded upon in the original post) - how about "seeing things in the eyes of a Colombian"? Although they are less hard to define, internal (personal) and cultural experiences can also count as "knowledge", such as views towards family, personal indentity relating to social status, attitudes to personal relationships, etc... So who is more knowledgable, the expat or the native?

"The Colombian, of course!" goes the predictable answer - and this is understandable. Of course native Colombians understand the intricate details of the personal, social and cultural lives of Colombians better than foreigners. They live here, and they were born here - and, for the most part, have always been completely integrated in Colombian culture. Expats of course have spent less of their lives in Colombia, and in many cases are not fully integrated anyway (which is not necessarily due to them delibaretely wanting to stay detatched from it, but I digress...).

Colombians may know "how it feels to be Colombian" more than expats, but foreign residents have the advantage of being able to see and analyse Colombian cultural norms compared to their own (and, perhaps, other cultures as well). Why is this an advantage? Many Colombians, I am sure, are not explicitly aware of how their culture is characterised in terms of beliefs, outlooks, tendencies, biases, etc... (This goes not just for Colombians, but for most people of any nationality) - while a western visitor may be immediately struck by how Colombians seem to value being courteous, this may not seem quite so obvious to Colombians themselves, for example.

To analogise on a personal level, often other people understand us better than we understand ourselves. Others have the advantage of viewing our behaviour from an external perspective, where it can be seen more objectively. Just as a close friend or partner may understand my reasons for behaving in a certain way better than I myself do, so too can foreign visitors to a culture more clearly identify its various facets (from an external perspective) than fully-integrated members of it.

If we define "expert on Colombia", then, as "someone who knows how it feels to be Colombian" then (obviously) Colombians will win hands down.

If we define it as "someone who recognises and identifies many socio-cultural traits and trends in Colombian society(ies)" then those who have a non-Colombian upbringing (and thus external and relatively more objective viewpoint) might be favoured.

So, after all this, what is a Colombia expert? Depends on what you think an expert is. And am I one? No.

Miguel_Clavo says on Aug 12, 2007, 20:51:

Cut and past job from the Original Thread without the digression into poopoo.....=)... a different defintion, and some who claim to be Colombian Experts, and other various comments, including mine.....=)

vicshere says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 6:25:

I am an one of the experts on Colombia because I have lived here for 5 years straight and have lived and breath Colombia......I like others on this site can give you the information that you wouldn't find on some government website or any website for that matter....we can give the information from the street level....we can give you our feeling of the situations.....you can't have this kind of expert information coming to Colombia for a month or two per year.....you can read all you want but your not going to get the hear about the inter soul of Colombia

listo




sweethearts says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 6:47:

Don't US and British citizens consider themselves experts on everything, regardless of experience?





Cerealkiller says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 7:11:

hahaha sweethearts, thats what bf said when he read this post. "I am British-American, that makes me an expert on everything"....

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill




Lowell says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 7:46:

As long as I live in Colombia, I never be a total expert. Ya have to born, raised and CONTINUE to live here to have that title.





Man Tequila says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 7:56:

(T1) Of course Colombia_Mike is the only real expert here.

Colombia is a song you hear though you shut your ears. // "Peter, this post is being hijacked and many others are as well" -- PowWow




vicshere says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 7:59:

Lowell I have to disagree....expert= a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority possessing special skill or knowledge; trained by practice; skillful or skilled .....being born in Colombia doesn't make you a expert....I know many Colombians born in Colombia who have never travel outside their own city...I am referring to an expert as how Colombia affects a "gringo" .....the reason being is most people come to this site for information on the current situation on Colombia....e.g. how's the bus service form Cali to Bogotá.....being here 5 years I or other posters can give an expert answer based on what they hear on the street on the news and radio.....to me that is a more expert answer than one you will find on a government website where it may say."do not travel by bus in Colombia".. we can give answer that are more specific....oh and I am not say anyone here is total expert.....everyone is human makes mistakes and errors.....if someone says they are a total expert then they are full of shit

listo




lencol says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 9:15:

I've been here since 1969, married and divorced 3 times here, lost family here,been robbed by 5 armed gun men here, bought and sold more houses here than I can remember,been all over this country,having said that what's all this about being experts ,if an ex pats are coming here its best they gets it from an ex pat ,not from a Colombian,most Colombians do not go where we do,they don't know what its like to be an ex pat here,so if any one is coming here ask an ex pat who is here,and I cant stand tea never had a cup..





Ken says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 9:18:

Vicshere thinks hes a expert at everything, especially motos





lencol says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 9:30:

talking of houses , i will have coming on the market in a few months another one ,Turned a ridiculous 5 bathroom and 6 bedroom penthouse into a spacious 2 bedroom and 3 bathroom luxurious pad
with the best view in Bogotá's from all rooms. With a guarantee no buildings
will ever obstruct the view. some thing to think about if anyone is looking at buying here .





vicshere says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 9:51:

HEY KEN GO STICK IT UP YOU MOTO

listo




lencol says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 9:52:

and here is some thing i advices you don't copy ,at one time i had all 3 ex wifes living in the same road ,and to get in or out i had to pass all of them,and for a long time it seemed i was shopping for 4 homes ,im out of this ,i need this ,can you help with this ,so don't do it .





pedro says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:29:

Vicshere, aren't you the first guy to complain when the conversation switches to Spanish on this forum? It sure looked like you couldn't understand what was being said.

How can you be an expert on something if you don't follow the language? For example, a foreigner in the USA who speaks no English would be a perpetual outsider.

¡save pow wow!




critter says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:33:

Cripes, Lencol!! You really are loaded, aren't you? Did you buy all of there houses too?

Is the casino industry there really as profitable as here in the states? As a matter of fact, gambling addiction has become an epidemic in the US. The allure of "easy money" (or so they think)! jajajjaa

I can't believe that so many people are that poor at math and statistics. The casinos' doors are open because they are winning...just the way the business is designed. So, are your slot machines "rigged to pop" (so to speak) at 3% revenue mark? I never really got into the gambling scene...(thank God)...as I do not taking "losing" (at anything) lightly. That's my competitive nature, I guess.

Back to this thread...plain and simple: anyone who calls himself an expert is not (they are just in need of an "ego stroke")...anyone who actually is considered an expert (specializing in a particular field) by the masses, would never ever call him/herself an expert.

Here's why:

Those, who know very littleabout anything, tipically are satisfied with what they do know and feel that there is nothing else (worthwhile) to learn or know about the world.

Those who are wise, well-educated, and know a great deal about the world, realize that in the scheme of things, their knowledge is still very limited...a true master of anything never ceases the pursuit of further enlightment and self-improvement and will never be a finished product (i.e. expert).

So who are the self-proclaimed experts of Colombia again???

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"




codazzi says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:37:

I just want to know , how to get a cedula, and how to buy a decent pirate DVD that dont pause every
15 minutes.

Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. - Robert Orben




critter says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:41:

Ignorance really is bliss! Transversely, having an acute understanding of the situation can be torture!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"




critter says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:42:

jajjaja you get what you pay for codazzi...Murphy's law!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"




Miguel_Clavo says on Saturday August 11th, 2007 10:44:

I reallly hate to rain on the parade of every pseudo-expert here, but the truth of the matter there ARE NO COLOMBIAN EXPERTS here, other than in THEIR OWN MINDS..............The most sorry-assed of all claims are those who have "lived in Colombia" for "X" number of years, whether X=1, 3, 5, 7, or more than 10 years....whether in a large city like Bogota, or in Podunk, Colombia...If a person moves to Los Angeles from another country, or even another state in the US, does 5 years of living there make him an expert on LA, California, or the US??? Answer: F% at K NO!.....and that doesnt even take into consideration the Potatohead Factor, meaning if the person starts out being Clueless in the first place, OR, lives in a "Bubble", the persons credibility as an "Colombian Expert" sinks like the Titanic!!!

Lets look at the definition of expert which has been offered by the PBH DeathThreatMan:

expert= a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority possessing special skill or knowledge; trained by practice; skillful or skilled

Living in Colombia for 5 years is considered a special skill? or special knowledge? Umm,....excuse meeeee........how did you arrive at that? did you take educational classes on Colombia? the culture?.........then in that case, EVERY FOREIGNER LIVING IN COLOMBIA over 5 years IS,IN FACT,AN EXPERT ON COLOMBIA!!!!!!!!!! and EVERY PERSON WHO HAS LIVED IN COLOMBIA OVER 5 YEARS, COLOMBIANS INCLUDED, ARE EXPERTS ON COLOMBIA!!!!!!!!!!! How fokin hilarious.......!!!!!!!!!!...sorry, the argument doesnt hold water, but mierda.....=)

There are NO Colombian Experts here, only pseudo-experts or experts in thier own minds.......AND, a GRINGO living in Colombia for even 100 years, is still a GRINGO........No matter how hard ones own mind tries to deny it.....................=)

Besitos, and THANK YOU!!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

critter says on Aug 12, 2007, 21:37:

thanks for the recap, clavito.

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

Miguel_Clavo says on Aug 12, 2007, 21:40:

i didnt feel like rewriting my very important posting....jajajjaj...yeah, i wish...jajajja

btw, you do not look anything like i had imagined..jajajja.....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

billyb says on Aug 12, 2007, 21:55:

Exellent post Leeroy.

jinksmiester says on Aug 12, 2007, 21:59:

Perhaps if you combined all of the knowage available from various people who post on pbh you,d have one exspert...exspecially pow wow.....of course he would have to be in the strange but true catagorie of exsperts.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

Rubito says on Aug 12, 2007, 23:14:

Umm, as I was saying, I'm not a signed artist, so my music isn't in stores, but I DO have a digital distribution deal with Orchard so you can find both my albums on iTunes, Rhapsody, Emusic etc.

If you're in Canada or the US just Paypal me $8 USD and your addy and I will send you a CD, but I'm not responsible for Canada Post losing it if they do, cuz they suck!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Monpirri says on Aug 14, 2007, 02:56:

The story about the sales numbers could well be a fact, but the truth of the matter is that you posted an article from a non Colombian news bureau and the article was talking about a concert that happened four years ago, 2003. The worst of all, you doctored a personal email.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Chelesupercono says on Aug 14, 2007, 06:06:

Hey Rubito what kind of music do you play?

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

vicshere says on Aug 14, 2007, 08:32:

sorry that would be....written...

listo

vicshere says on Aug 14, 2007, 08:45:

time will tell codazz

listo

goin_south says on Aug 14, 2007, 15:20:

hey gabolici..."".I am not a colombia expert just a colombia lover...""

I've decided to just settle for being an 'expert colombian lover' ;0)

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

billyb says on Aug 14, 2007, 16:00:

GS, or maybe you can become a "lover of colombian experst"