Colombia: Evidence suggests Chavez gave FARC $300M

aNdReSk says on Mar 3, 2008, 14:49:

OMFG O_O
That's creepy.

Uranium = Atomic bombs in their hands x_X

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pedro says on Mar 3, 2008, 15:07:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f48e91e2-e954-11dc-8365-0000779fd2ac.html

Forces fall short of Chávez’s bellicose bluster
By Benedict Mander in Caracas and Anastasia Moloney in Bogotá

Published: March 3 2008 19:17 | Last updated: March 3 2008 19:17

Hugo Chavez’s order to send Venezuelan tanks and fighter jets to the Colombian border on Sunday had the aura of a declaration of war.

The president and former paratrooper was reacting to the Colombian army’s strike into Ecuador on Saturday, which killed one of the top commanders of the leftwing rebel group, Farc.

But few are taking the threat seriously. Analysts say Venezuela’s army would be no match for an adversary with 254,000 people on active service – more than twice the size of Venezuela’s 115,000-strong force – who have been in permanent training for the past four decades in a war against various insurgent groups.

“This is just another of Chávez’s orders made without thinking, and without any military advice,� says Miguel Aparicio, a retired general and security analyst in Caracas. “We are getting used to his impulsiveness and instability – it is an empty threat.�

Mr Chávez’s rhetorical bluster is notorious. Only last month, he caused turmoil in the financial and commodities markets when he threatened to stop exporting oil to the US. A week later he retracted his words.

But the reality remains that, despite recent US warnings that Venezuela has been equipping itself with “three or four times� the amount of weapons that it needs, a lack of experience and practice puts Venez- uelan forces at a serious disadvantage.

“Chávez has spent a lot of money on expensive [military] toys, it’s true, but instead of serious training, soldiers seem to spend much of their time carrying out tasks like manning government market stalls,� says Mr Aparicio, in reference to Mr Chávez’s policy of giving the military an increasing role in civil society.

Furthermore, analysts note that many in the Venezuelan army, particularly in the high command, would be loath to enter into open conflict with what they consider a “brother� nation.

“There is not going to be any war with Colombia. The actions of Venezuela and Ecuador are preventative, to block any possible move by Colombia – but Colombia has already retreated,� says Ana María Sanjuán, director of the Centre for Peace and Human Rights at the Central University of Venezuela.

“What was Colombia’s objective? Clearly the whole operation was meticulously planned and executed. I think it has a lot do do with the humanitarian exchange,� she adds, suggesting that Colombia’s aim may have been to prevent further involvement of Mr Chávez in the resolution of its ongoing hostage crisis.

For Mr Chávez’s part, analysts said the foreign policy crisis would help to distract public attention from domestic problems such as crime, inflation and food shortages.

Colombia’s relations with Ecuador are also in question, after the Colombian government accused its neighbour of having links with Farc guerrillas and fostering relations with the rebels.

Rafael Correa, Ecuador’s leftwing president and a close ally of Mr Chávez, has expelled Colombia’s ambassador in Quito and stationed troops along its borders with Colombia.

Three computers and documents allegedly belonging to Raúl Reyes, the slain senior Farc commander, were seized during a raid by Colombian armed forces on a rebel jungle camp in Ecuador on Saturday.

Oscar Naranjo, Colombia’s police chief general, said a letter signed by Mr Reyes alleges that Ecuador’s internal security minister, Gustavo Larrea, met the guerrilla commander.

However, Juan Manuel Santos, Colombia’s defence minister, said that he did not consider it necessary to deploy any troops in border areas.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008

que nota!

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ColombianoGringo says on Mar 3, 2008, 15:10:

Even if the stories about uranium are true, the FARC would have a hard time building an atom bomb. I don't think centrifuges run very well off generators in a jungle camp. Honestly, I find the uranium item to be a bit suspect. Such a "revelation" would be a great scare tactic. Didn't the US invade Iraq based on similar, dodgy claims?

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Simon says on Mar 3, 2008, 15:56:

The computer forensics experts will determine if the data on the computers is genuine. Colombia is also sharing it with international agencies such as the FBI. And regarding their intentions to acquire uranium, with the FARC anything is possible.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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eywed says on Mar 3, 2008, 16:20:

Farc may not make an a bomb but a dirty bomb in one of Colombias major cities would be so nasty.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 3, 2008, 16:50:

Colombia Says Rebel Documents Show Link to Venezuela
By Brian Wagner
Miami
03 March 2008

Colombia's government says documents recovered from the computer of a slain rebel leader show shows links between leftist rebels and the Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chavez. VOA's Brian Wagner has this report from Miami.

Colombian officials said the evidence was recovered after a controversial military attack on a rebel base inside Ecuador, which killed 17 members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia.

Colombian officials say the information was contained on three computers and included letters from top FARC commander, Raul Reyes, who was killed in Saturday's attack.

Colombia's national police chief Oscar Naranjo, 02 Mar 2008
National police chief Oscar Naranjo said the information shows Venezuela's government offered to supply rifles to the FARC and sent $300 million to the rebel group. Naranjo said that officials were studying whether the money could be part of a deal to release several hostages held by the FARC.

The police chief said the only thing he can confirm now is that President Hugo Chavez paid $300 million to the FARC in support of its terrorist activities.

Naranjo said the evidence was being forwarded to the Organization of American States to help verify the information. The regional group has called a meeting in Washington on Tuesday to discuss the situation.

The presidents of Ecuador and Venezuela have responded angrily to the military strike, and announced plans to send troops to the borders with Colombia.

In Bogota, presidential spokesman Cesar Mauricio Velasquez sought to ease tensions, saying Colombia had no plans to send troops to its borders. But he said the seized information raises questions about links between the FARC and the governments of Venezuela and Ecuador.

He said Colombia is concerned about possible agreements between the FARC and the governments of Ecuador and Venezuela which would violate their obligations against harboring terrorists.

Ecuador's government denied any links to FARC rebels.

Colombia has complained that FARC rebels often cross remote jungle borders into Ecuador and Venezuela to seek refuge from Colombian military attacks.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Tom Casey said Washington backs Colombia's efforts to respond to the threat posed by FARC rebels, which the United States considers a terrorist organization. He said the dispute between Colombia and Ecuador about the attack should be addressed through dialogue.

"We think the way for any differences about this particular military action to be resolved is through dialogue among the two countries," said Tom Casey. "That is in everyone's interest, and it is certainly what we are encouraging the government of Colombia and the government of Ecuador to do"

Several Latin American leaders have appealed for calm in the situation, saying any conflict could hurt the region.

------------

After reading the above article I am left with one question...

1.) Narco-trafficking is a very profitable business.

2.) The FARC is into narco-trafficking.

3.) So, the FARC should be knee-deep in cash, right?

My question...

If the FARC is deeply involved in narco-trafficking, why do they need $300 million dollars from Chavez, especially, when they're living in the jungles like rats?

Something just doesn't makes sense regarding the supposed $300 million payment.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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aNdReSk says on Mar 3, 2008, 16:55:

Dude they built a submarine in the jungle O_o how come they cant make a bomb :/

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robi666 says on Mar 3, 2008, 16:57:

Sooo, M_T, why do they need to kidnapp "ganaderos" and ask, let's say, 50 millions of pesos to set them free? Or why do they need to charge vacuna in the markets?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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jorgegdiaz says on Mar 3, 2008, 17:25:

Q:
Is there a equivalent PBH forum for Venezuela? (with alll that chucha I´m sure there are many...)
I wonder what foreigners there think about this whole situation.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 3, 2008, 17:27:

robi666,
I'm not sure what you mean...

So, the FARC is broke?

Maybe, they're not that involved in the drug trade, as has been reported.

aNDResk,
The have made bombs, just not dirty bombs, because there is not such thing as the world has been lead to believe by those who want to keep you living in fear,so you will give up your freedom in order for them to protect you.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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robi666 says on Mar 3, 2008, 17:40:

M_T, ok, when we'll meet next time, we'll talk about how much a group costs (paras or guerrillas, it is the same), the way the business works and how to make counts work.

Groups are always broke by definition and bosses are greedy.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Sam Salmon says on Mar 3, 2008, 17:48:

You're right something about this is odd.

' a la orden!'

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donkeyrinse says on Mar 3, 2008, 18:49:

Nothing about this is odd. Text book Washington scripted proxy war. Chavez received money from the FARC? Really? Uribe's entire family was on the take through the Escobar years and you don't see the international press or business community yelling for his head. I mean he's only indirectly responsible for a crack epidemic that brought many major American urban areas to their knees, no big dawg.

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 3, 2008, 18:53:

This is about "Chavez giving $300M to the FARC" not the other way around, in this case.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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billyb says on Mar 3, 2008, 19:22:

The FARC gave chavez $50K when he was jailed after his failed coup attempt in '92, now he is paying them back.

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robi666 says on Mar 3, 2008, 19:22:

With big interests!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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billyb says on Mar 3, 2008, 19:25:

those were some inflacionary years :)

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Simon says on Mar 3, 2008, 19:39:

donkeyrinse,

You're full of crap!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2008, 19:41:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsBSzgtlYj8

I just received this in my e-mail from Colombia.


2008/3/3, Colombia Soy Yo :

Que falsedad la de Hugo Chavez Frias.

Ver Video de Chavez jurando por Dios y su Madre que no apoya las Farc, y luego diciendo que si


Colombianos, no nos dejemos engañar, debemos apoyar nuestra patria en estos momentos de crisis con Ecuador y Venezuela.


Por favor comparte este email con quien puedas.

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romy says on Mar 3, 2008, 22:54:

There's people that agree with Donkeyrinse...
(http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2008-03/02podur.cfm)

March 02, 2008

Colombia Assassinates Raul Reyes of FARC

By Justin Podur

The second-in-command of FARC (Colombia's guerrilla group), and perhaps its most visible spokesperson, Luis Édgar Devia Silva, or "Raul Reyes" (the nom de guerre), was killed by the Colombian military in bombings yesterday. The Colombian military killed some 15 guerrillas in the operation, according to their own reports, including Raul Reyes. The reports suggest that it was basically an assassination, of the type the Israelis have committed in recent decades and are most recently accused of committing against Hizbollah commander Imad Mughniyeh (indeed, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez noted the similarity, asking if Colombia was going to be converted into the Israel of the Americas). From El Tiempo (Colombia's national newspaper): "Reyes was killed in an intelligence operation that included the Army and Air Force, which intercepted a satellite phone call from the guerrilla chief, in recent hours that made it possible to find his exact location."

Raul Reyes was assassinated on Ecuadorian territory. The Ecuadorian army took some of the bodies, but the Colombian army took Raul Reyes's and those of other FARC officers.

Ecuador has retired its ambassador from Colombia.

Venezuela has also closed its embassy.

Ecuador and Venezuela are both moving troops to their borders with Colombia.

The Ecuadorian President, Rafael Correa, called Uribe a "criminal, mafioso, paramilitary" leading a "narco-government".

"We do not want war, but we will not permit the Empire or its puppy, President Uribe, to weaken us." Those were Chavez's words on the Venezuelan radio program, Alo Presidente on March 2. Chavez called Raul Reyes a "good revolutionary" and his killing a "cowardly assassination". Further, he said "It is very serious that a country arrogates to itself the right to bomb the territory of a neighbour and commit an incursion to take bodies, violating many international laws. Think of the consequences, not just for Colombia, but for your neighbours."

The Venezuelan government's official communication noted that the assassination was "a very hard blow against the humanitarian accord and the possibility of negotiations, revealing the irresponsibility of those who privilege the military option and escalate the armed conflict, making more difficult political and negotiated solutions, without regard for the consequences."

The assassination was, literally, the answer to FARC's second unilateral release of four kidnap victims, former Congresspeople, an operation coordinated with help from Venezuela. There are, therefore, numerous parallels with Israel. First, the tactic of high-tech, long-distance assassination of high-profile leaders. Second, the killing of dozens of others around as 'collateral damage'. Third, the use of such assassinations to undermine the possibilities for dialogue and negotiated solutions.

In this case, as with so much else in the region, the target is Venezuela and the objective is to escalate to a regional conflict - or, rather, an intensification and internationalization of the military conflict that is happening in Colombia. Such a conflict would be incredibly destructive for everyone involved, for Colombia and Colombians, for Uribe and his regime, and of course for Venezuela's revolution. The US, however, would benefit. When US allies use the same tactics in the same sorts of political situations against US enemies, there is reason to suspect a US role.

The US/Israeli approach in the Middle East, from the invasion of Iraq in 2003 to the invasion of Lebanon in 2006 and the ongoing massacres in Gaza, has been to commit atrocities and acts of violence and, using their superior militaries, exploit the political and military opportunities that arise (this is a military counterpart of what Naomi Klein calls "the shock doctrine"). Even when they have backfired politically or strained military resources, these violent approaches have cost their victims much more than their authors, who continue to have reason to believe that more violence can work.

One of the political opportunities that Israel counts on after it commits an assassination is some random act of violence by the Palestinian armed groups, which it can then exploit, calling the Palestinians terrorists. The FARC have been told that if they unilaterally release kidnap victims, the response will be the assassination of their commanders. What should those who believe the only solution to the conflict is a political solution say to them?

It would be a major improvement in world affairs, especially in the Middle East but increasingly, perhaps, in the Americas as well, if assassination was not viewed as an acceptable instrument of policy. As it is, the best short-term hope for the region is if there is an outpouring of official and popular disgust at Uribe's regime (and those who call the shots for that regime) for what it has done, throughout the Americas.

Justin Podur is a Toronto-based writer.

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podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 03:15:

cowardly assassination, jaja!

Colombian military kills trained, armed guerillas in batlle and it's a cowardly assassination.

FARC kill and kidnap unarmed women and children and they are heroes.

Do you really think anyone with a brain buys that bullshit romy?

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 4, 2008, 03:17:

What about the money?!

Why does FARC need $300M when they are involved in a very lucrative business?

I'm beginning to think that FARC's involvement in narcotrafficking is just another made up fantasy by the government to blame them for all the cocaine in America.

I also understand greed by the top guys, but c'mon, they're living in the jungle for 40 years, never able to stay at any one place long enough to spend a peso.

The huge amounts of profits generated from the sale of cocaine is astronamical, on almost every level. I would think that if you're in charge, you'd be loaded with cash that so much of it would be fallen out of your pockets, enough to enrich your underlings.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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jorgegdiaz says on Mar 4, 2008, 04:26:

MT have you ever seen rooms literally full of cash boxes? yes, remember that scene in Blow when Jhony Deep´s character decides to take all that $ to Panama?

Did you see the Rolex that Reyes was wearing? or all the SUVs that they drove in El Caguan?
I hope you were being sarcastic...

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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robi666 says on Mar 4, 2008, 05:43:

"I also understand greed by the top guys, but c'mon, they're living in the jungle for 40 years, never able to stay at any one place long enough to spend a peso."

M_T, Colombia is full of rich criminals that have to live in the jungle to escape the law. And that's a VERY expensive life.

Let's take, as an example, Los Mellizos. They are the richest and most searched narcos in Colombia. Five millions of USD on their head. Do they live in New York or Bogotà? No, they live in the jungle, sleep on hammocks, eat poor food. They do not want to make the same end as Chupeta.

They have an AUC group to defend them. They just bought it. Who pays those people? How much does it cost, let's say, a thousand people army? Food, arms, transportations, salaries?
Why those groups get involved with extorsion and kidnapping when drug is a very lucrative business?
What if you need to add 100 more people? Is there a limit to needed forces (and money)? What about those new helicopters? Armoured bullets?

M_T, those groups are ALWAYS broke, because they are maintained at the highest level they can, need and grab money ANYWAY they can. They kill for 1, 2, 50 millions of pesos.
Now, figure out about 300M of USD.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tomtom33 says on Mar 4, 2008, 06:09:

And, unfortunately, there is no such thing as enough.

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billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 06:22:

Funny how none of these guys calling it an assasination came on here and lamented the assasination of the 11 hostage councilmen from Cali by the FARC, romy, donkey???

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donkeyrinse says on Mar 4, 2008, 07:56:

Thanks Simon. You must be a US based journalist. Actually if you check your sources I'm full of donkey crap. You could have just looked at the name....oh forget it.

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podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:00:

they love to have it both ways billyb. One minute FARC is a legitimate military insurgency, but when some of them get killed they are peasants on a friendly camping trip to a neighbouring country.

I keep forgetting logic is not important to these people.

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ColombianoGringo says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:08:

"Second, the killing of dozens of others around as 'collateral damage'"

That statement alone shows how out of touch with reality this imbecile is. Pod is right, they like to have it both ways depending on what version supports their BS for the day.

Collateral damage would imply that these people were innocent villagers caught in the crossfire. No one, not even the dementia suffering Chavez, has implied that the dead were anything other than farc guerrillas.

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donkeyrinse says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:09:

BillyB -

"Any man's death diminishes me." - John Dunne

One expects cold-blooded killing from any group struggling for access to power and money. The FARC and indeed a cornucopia of players have been vying for control of Colombia's billion dollar black market for decades often with bloody results. However, the assassination of Senor Silva was an act of the state most likely in collusion with foreign intelligence aid. I assume we've all watched enough Law & Order to identify the rub here.

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ColombianoGringo says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:10:

"However, the assassination of Senor Silva was an act of the state most likely in collusion with foreign intelligence aid."

So? He was a valid military objective. Where was your concern when reyes had Gloria Polanco's husband killed shortly after he finally was able to ransom his two sons?

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gringoloid says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:15:

don't blame colombians for the crack epidemic in 1980's USA, ........google the term, "mena, arkansas drug dealing' and you'll find out who is responsible for that drug epidemic.............CIA, Bush, Clinton, Iran Contra.........

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Ctg Bound says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:58:

Uranium...any person, business, military organisation, or in this case terrorist group make plans on many things, many never get onto the drawing board.

The uranium could just be something like this, probably is in my view, but time will probably tell.

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billyb says on Mar 4, 2008, 11:17:

Can you get more ridiculous? Señor Silva? Are you going to honor him with a minute of silence, Donkey? Like the simian next door did?

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robi666 says on Mar 4, 2008, 11:26:

"However, the assassination of Senor Silva was an act of the state most likely in collusion with foreign intelligence aid."

How can a terrorist hiding in a jungle, protected by soldiers of a not regular army, one of the most searched out criminals, be "assasinated" by the law forces?
So, everytime police kill a thief, you will scream at the "act of state assasination"?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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durito says on Mar 4, 2008, 11:29:

The FARC claims to be a legitimate army fighting a war against the state.

Even though this isn't true, their leaders are thus legitimate targets, even when they sleep. You ever hear of a war that stopped at night?

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Lcacique says on Mar 4, 2008, 11:41:

Blaming Colombians for the US drug problem is like blaming McDonald's for obesity. The US has a drug "problem" because...Guess What?...MANY US citizens like drugs. If it wasn't cocaine it would be meth or gas or oxycotin or glue or acid or whippets or uppers or downers or whatever gets you off.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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donkeyrinse says on Mar 5, 2008, 12:23:

Call off them dogs! Jesus you are all an ornery bunch! Is this PBH or the VFW down in San Antonio?

For starters, I'm not blaming COLOMBIA for the crack epidemic but the CIA AND DEA did not watch all that powder go by from just West Africa. It is well-documented that the CIA facilitated the movement of crack into the inner cities. Gary Webb paid for that documentation with his life. Not so well-documented is the connection of Uribe and the permits-to-fly from Escobar's airstrips but this is another topic altogether, one that links to my actual point before I was jumped...

Robi666- No I would not scream "state assassination" every time a cop killed a thief. The parameters change however if that thief is a political target. Furthermore, I'm a bit suspicious of your simplistic tone that insinuates a cop should just shoot to kill. Thievery at most any level is not just cause to invite the bone splintering effects of a discharged cop round.

BillyB - Senor Silva, Raul, Luis, Big Blue Lou, Grand Master Jungle Scum Flash -- I don't care what you call him but to answer your question politely, no, I will not observe a moment of silence for him today, that honor is reserved for Brett Favre.

At the end of the day, this was a PR stunt to further incense the Colombian people to blindly support their President and to take attention away from the fire side sale of Colombia's nature resources, the privitazation of the universities and faltering of the major banks, etc. I welcome all objective points of view so quit trying to corner me with rhetoric. The US rushed to war under false pretense so the military contractors could play in the big Iraqi sandbox. I love the Colombian and Venezuelan people more than I love myself most days and I love peace even more. Peace, peacity, peace peoples!

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billyb says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:01:

Bret Favre? Another one I can't stand ;)

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gringoloid says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:19:

donkeyrinse...................nobody here is going to understand or believe that Gary Webb stuff, except me. discussion here must be kept within the boundarys of what they're fed on television.

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ColombianoGringo says on Mar 8, 2008, 19:50:

Earlier in this thread, I stated that I doubted the stories about the farc trying to buy uranium. Well, according to this article in El Espectador, British MI6 claims that Raul Reyes traveled to Bucharest with a fake Venezuelan passport in order to try to buy some stolen Russian uranium from "The Order of the Rising Sun" for a dirty bomb to take out Uribe. Honestly, the whole thing reads like a 007 flick. Judge for yourselves. It is in Spanish.

http://www.elespectador.com/impreso/cuadernilloa/politica/articuloimpr...

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:07:

Given their apparent inability to smuggle any large bombs into Bogota in the last 4 years, it wouldn't be a terrible tactical decision for the FARC to build a big dirty bomb and just blow it off upwind of a major Colombian city.

Of course, doing so they'd kill or sicken thousands of the poor people whose interests they allegedly represent, but consistency was never the FARC's strong point.

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Alma del Norte says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:14:

at Hollywood - Don't you think there has been a lack of will to blow anyone/thing up in recent years? Let's face it it with far less resources and with far less opportunity, the IRA were able to do it. I think about it every time I ride the Transmilenio.

La vida es una rutina

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Alma del Norte says on Mar 8, 2008, 20:19:

at Simon - Any news on this?

"The computer forensics experts will determine if the data on the computers is genuine. Colombia is also sharing it with international agencies such as the FBI."

La vida es una rutina

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Ctg Bound says on Mar 12, 2008, 11:25:

Alma del Norte ,

I have heard that interpol has been asked to look at the computer.

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