Colombia Arrests Two U.S. Solders

kernow62 says on May 4, 2005, 15:43:

Saw the story on the BBC, if it is indeed the case they should be tried as terrorists. They are supplying arms to a known terrorist organisation.

Didn't see a peep about it on national tv news from the US.

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platano says on May 4, 2005, 16:19:

So.... where do you think they are being held? What accomodations are given to USA soldiers arrested in Colombia? Do they make them nice and comfortable, or do they go in with the general inmate population in a regular jail?

Platano, estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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Dan says on May 4, 2005, 16:27:

I read this on Yahoo and ElTiempo.com about a minute before I saw it here. Personally, I think it's good that they got caught, their idiots to begin with just for doing this crap. With the story before about the 5 soldiers getting arrested for cocaine, I saw that they were first caught in Colombia but for some reason was still allowed to leave to the US and was arrested in the US once the plane landed. These guys here, sound like they may be soley in Colombian hands.

God Bless America!

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platano says on May 4, 2005, 16:47:

Uhh, these are "elite Special Forces and Rangers" in other words these are the best of the best, the most highly trained individuals in a "professional" army that isn't looking so professional anymore. They are looking corrupt. You could see this as just a few more bad apples... and they were caught like the other bad apples... and they will be punished...etc., etc., the usual mantra. Or, you could say Colombia has only managed to catch a few of a very large number of rotten USA uniformed fruit inhabiting Colombia.

Platano, estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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kernow62 says on May 4, 2005, 16:58:

It makes one wonder if thay weren't actually obeying orders from higher up. Does the US really want the war in Colombia to finish?

Even though only 7 have been "caught" as of late this is still a fairly substantial percentage as there aren't supposed to be too many in Colombia.

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kernow62 says on May 4, 2005, 17:17:

Published Wednesday, May 4, 2005
Two U.S. Soldiers Detained in Colombia

By KIM HOUSEGO
Associated Press Writer
BOGOTA, Colombia
Colombian police arrested two U.S. soldiers for alleged involvement in a plot to traffic thousands of rounds of ammunition - possibly to outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups, authorities said Wednesday.

The two soldiers were detained during a raid Tuesday on a house in a gated community in Carmen de Apicala, southwest of the capital and near Colombia's sprawling Tolemaida air base, where many U.S. soldiers are stationed.

National Police chief Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro said the two U.S. Army soldiers, whose names and ranks were not disclosed, were arrested at the house where a large cache of ammunition was discovered and that three Colombians were also involved.

The Colombian attorney general's office said the arrested American soldiers had been in contact with a former Colombian police sergeant linked to paramilitary groups. The former policeman was also arrested, a spokeswoman for the attorney general said.

The cache was composed of 32,000 rounds of ammunition sent to Colombia by the United States under its Plan Colombia aid program, aimed at crushing a leftist insurgency and the drug trafficking that fuels it, the attorney general's spokeswoman said on condition of anonymity.

The U.S. Embassy confirmed the arrests but declined to comment on any possible link between the case and the outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups, who are battling leftist rebels in Colombia. The U.S. government has branded the paramilitary umbrella group, the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, as a terrorist organization, along with the two rebel groups.

The attorney general's office has formally opened an investigation into arms trafficking against those arrested and is studying treaties between Colombia and the United States to see if the U.S. service members can be charged or have immunity.

A police official said the operation that led to the discovery of the munitions and the arrests was purely Colombian, with no U.S. assistance.

The two U.S. soldiers were being held by Colombian authorities near Carmen de Apicala. Local TV broadcast images of what it said were the two detained Americans, wearing T-shirts and slacks in what appeared to be a police station. The men's backs were to the camera. They were not handcuffed. RCN television identified the two as marksmanship instructors at Tolemaida.

Jairo Clopatofsky, a member of the Colombian Senate's foreign relations committee, said he believes the arrested soldiers are part of a broader arms and drugs smuggling ring that may include important U.S. officials.

He said a 31-year-old treaty between Colombia and the United States that gives U.S. military personnel diplomatic immunity is allowing U.S. soldiers to commit crimes here with impunity. He is leading a move to amend the pact so U.S. soldiers who commit crimes in Colombia face jail time here.

"Colombia's hands are tied by this treaty, which prohibits us from bringing any of these U.S. military members to justice," he said.

Castro said police in Carmen de Apicala, 50 miles southwest of Bogota, uncovered the case after they stopped a suspicious man, who offered a bribe to be allowed to go free. Under threat of arrest, the man led the officers to the nearby house where the arms stockpile was stashed.

Shortly afterward, the two American soldiers - apparently unaware of the police operation - entered the house but could not justify their presence.

"In the course of the investigation, two Americans arrived, they did not give a satisfactory explanation and were put at the disposal of the prosecutors' office," Castro said.

It marks the latest U.S. embarrassment in this South American nation. On March 29, five U.S. soldiers were arrested after 35 pounds of cocaine was found aboard a U.S. military plane that flew to El Paso, Texas, from the Apiay air base east of Bogota.

The United States has provided more than $3 billion in aid under Plan Colombia. Up to 800 U.S. troops are permitted simultaneously in Colombia, according to U.S. law, to train Colombian armed forces and provide logistical support. Up to 600 Americans are also permitted in the country as U.S. government contractors.

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Michael B says on May 4, 2005, 18:02:

Mexico too Mexico arrested two U.S. Border Patrol agents for arms smugling yesterday. They were in civilian clothing and driving a private vehicle. They entered Mexico at a regular POE (Mexicali) and told customs they had nothing to declare...customs said "let's just check you out any way" and found 1300 rounds of rifle ammunition that the U.S. guys claim they "forgot" to take out of their vehicle.

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cali373 says on May 4, 2005, 19:53:

Got another good one for you Interestingly this article came out when Condi Rice said that plan Colombia was actually working to stop the flow of drugs. Perhaps she should have checked witht e dept she is in charge of before opening her mouth.

April 28, 2005

Anti-Drug Gains in Colombia Don't Reduce Flow to U.S.
By JOEL BRINKLEY

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/28/international/americas/28colombia.html?ei=5070&en=f0087f37f0da9369&ex=1115352000&pagewanted=print&position=

Smile if you are a thinker!

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Sam Salmon says on May 4, 2005, 20:12:

'Forgetting' Ammuntion I Believe I can honestly believe that those dumbfuck yanqui cabrones 'forgot' that much ammo was in their car.
The reason is that I know how much an average US gun nut owns-thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds-I mean these people are seriously fucked in the head and live on some other plane of existence.




' a la orden!'

Lionheart says on May 4, 2005, 20:32:

history repeats itself Why should US soldiers be different in Colombia than in other countries? Remember the drug consumpition in Viet Nam? What about Afghanistan? I read some news from there about drugs and US soldiers. When I lived in Germany US soldiers were busted for drugs on a regular basis.

I am not saying soldiers from any other nation are better, I only read about US soldiers getting caught though, aside from a few rare cases in Germany regarding, Brits, French, and German soldiers.

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platano says on May 4, 2005, 20:47:

Lionheart, you are right and even the guerrillas had... government issue arms and when I asked about it they said they had ways of purchasing from corrupt Colombian soldiers. Wherever there's a peso to be made I guess someone is going to be looking for an easy way to make a profit. It's not just USA soldiers though supposedly they are "professional" and not just conscripts who got drafted.

OFF TOPIC: Today I heard the USA armed forces has missed its recruitment goals three months in a row. Then I heard that Al Qaeda is "oversubscribed", i.e., they have so many volunteers for suicide missions they don't have enough missions planned to accomodate all of them. Al Qaeda has waiting lists of volunteers.

It's just a matter of time before there is an Al Qaeda nuclear strike against the USA and FARC could play a role in aiding and abetting Al Qaeda. I don't think FARC would pass up the opportunity since Blackhawk helicopters (made in USA) are hunting them down and they might not feel gratitude toward the USA.

Platano, estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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chaparon bonaparte says on May 4, 2005, 20:55:

They should arrest all of them, all US soldiers in Colombia are criminals.

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b bruce says on May 4, 2005, 23:15:

U.S. Soldiers Arrested! gentlemen, please do not feel free to jump the gun's and ammo to quickly. As a former special ops soldier. It is not rare for an operation to pit two rival enemy factions against one another. Hell, why not let the paramilitary right wing do the dirty work against the FARC? And it seems to me at least American soldiers are in the fight. The Colombian people won't get involved. America's problem is we keep attempting to help those that refuse to help them selves. Viet Nam, Afganistan, Irag and now Colombia. And yes, The Al Qaeda do have a never ending list of volunteers. Which just shows you how ignorant that faction of Islam realy is! Perhaps the best thing that could happen would be the FARC getting into bed with the Al Qaeda. Then perhaps the Colombian people would get their heads out of their second point of contact and fight to take their country back!

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chaparon bonaparte says on May 4, 2005, 23:53:

b bruce Thats so typical for the USA,
they rather support the right wing Nazis because they cant get along with the left wing people.
B bruce, something is wrong with your ideas.
Thats why everyone shouts: Gringos (US) out, because first they start meddling without knowing what they are really doing, then they mess it AGAIN up and others have to clean up the mess after the USA has created the dilemma.

USA keep your hands out of international affairs, you dont know what you are doing.

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Miguel says on May 5, 2005, 00:49:

Status of these soldiers They will be shipped back to the US in accordance with the agreement between Colombia and the EEUU; the story is posted on Caracol's web site.

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Dan says on May 5, 2005, 03:04:

b bruce I think you ment the third point of contact...haha

Anyway, "Officially" the US doesn't have an active role in the fight, I don't see why they should. Americans are more for the adviser/teacher roles and not the active fighter.

These guys are morons for even trying to do anything. Hopefully they don't just get a slap on the hand.

God Bless America!

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lpdiver says on May 5, 2005, 04:03:

22,000 Rounds of ammo is pretty small potatos anyway you look at it. And the article does say that it was "suspected". They are probably very guilty but it is way too soon to make that assumption.

T

"cook some rice!"

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Dan says on May 5, 2005, 04:33:

I just read another article that said it was 40,000 rounds. Either way, it doesn't look too good on their part

God Bless America!

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lpdiver says on May 5, 2005, 04:47:

40,000 rounds is still pretty small potatos.

T

"cook some rice!"

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 07:02:

b bruce, following your explanation... Bruce b, as a former special ops soldier you have provided a special insight into why it is so many people disapprove of USA policies. It is not jealousy or envy of the USA, it is a recognition of USA immorality. Profiting from arming people to kill other people is immoral.

plátano

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b bruce says on May 5, 2005, 08:52:

It was on the news yesterday! Can't be found today! GIB, you are correct. There are those who always point to the USA as the bad guys! When we do good no one remembers, when we do bad no one forgets! Unfortunately we do much good for the world. But we are not perfect! No one is perfect. This guns and ammo thing could not have been pulled off without some high ranking Colombian involved. And perhaps they were doing it for the good of their country. Colombia has so much to offer and I am sure for those involved in the fight for a free and safe Colombia it must be frustrating. The USA does not intervene at this level without the host country asking for assistance. I am sure those pointing fingers at the USA are all sporting their Che Guevara t-shirts. And he was no liberator. Just another dead communist! Viva Colombia!

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boomer says on May 5, 2005, 08:57:

GiB - b bruce Well said!!!!!!!!

orgullo_de_colombia

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 5, 2005, 11:23:

I know you're a troll but... "And it seems to me at least American soldiers are in the fight. The Colombian people won't get involved." This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone say about Colombia.

Who do you think the FARC, ELN and AUC are? Germans? Congolese? Or the 300,000 Colombians in the military. Damn right there are Colombian people involved in the fight. That's the problem to begin with, too MANY Colombians fighting.

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greg says on May 5, 2005, 13:15:

The U.S. only intervenes when asked? Oh that`s right , I forgot Allende invited Kissinger to have him killed. I forgot Cambodia asked Nixon and Kissinger to bomb the shit out of them. I forgot that Hugo Chavez asked the U.S. to spend millions trying to get rid of him, and on and on

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william_andrew_channell says on May 5, 2005, 14:41:

LET'S SUPPORT THE PARACOS!!!! Maybe the US should help the right-wing paramilitaries.

I mean, it worked with

NORIEGA, SADAM HUSSEIN and the TALIBAN, right.

All of whom were supported by the US in their previous armed conflicts, and they all turned out to be great US allies in their later years.

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SantaFe con Cola says on May 5, 2005, 15:27:

I thought it was... ...more like half that number of Colombians in the military Hollywood. Anyway, your bottom line is good to go that they are Colombians doing all the fighting here (if they feel like it, or sometimes they camp out on the other side of the river from the enemy). The US has just decided to foot a good chunk of the bill and try and give the military more clout against a very patient enemy that has an increasing unlimited amount funds from drugs. I still think the US should sell the COLMIL some A-10s and AC-130s. HOOK IT UP!

And to anyone bashing the US in general, go ask the 1500+ people who line up outside EVERY DAY at the US Embassy to get a visa what the hell they are doing. As well as the hundreds of thousands of others who are applying for a visa in other countries. Not a very big line at the French Embassy last time I checked.

Some people will always hate the hegemon because it always throws it's weight around. But of course it does because everyone and every state does (or tries to do) what is in its own best interest.

Let's see if the next great power (China?) will be as benevolent with foreign aid and respecting other countries rights to democracy. Ahh, Tiananmen Square brings back such warm memories.

As far as these suspect bullet selling bubbas, they deserve to be dealt with accordingly, wherever that may be. Sure does make the US look like hypocrites and the Colombian government loose credibility in the eyes of their population for not being able to put the smack down themselves. The US needs to do something quick before Uribe looses credibility and Navarro Wolf becomes the next Colombian president. Then all our good Latin American neighbors can throw a big socialist fiesta hosted by the new President of the OAS (one fight that the socialist leaning folks on this page will be glad the US lost, i.e. the Chilean vice the Mexican). Perhaps only then will cocaine and heroin be legalized. Happy trails...


--------------------

...damn I love that commercial.

...damn I love that commercial.

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Neonovo says on May 5, 2005, 15:53:

Will-Andrew...what about... The Sha or Iran? The Nica-Somoza-clan defeated by the Sandinistas? Marcos of the Phillipines? The Indonesian doode who murder and plunder with CIA backing? The list is endless...

Paz
Neonovo

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 16:24:

Besides Colombia here is a list of... United States interventions into about 70 countries from 1945 to 1999. Now we can add Colombia to the list.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/blum.htm

Platano, estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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platano says on May 5, 2005, 17:02:

Update on the two (anonymous) soldiers.... Colombia Hands Over Troops to U.S. Embassy

Thursday May 5, 2005 4:46 PM


AP Photo BOG101

By KIM HOUSEGO

Associated Press Writer

IBAGUE, Colombia (AP) - Two U.S. Army soldiers accused of arms trafficking were handed over Thursday to American officials, the Pentagon said.

But Colombian officials could not confirm the statement, and a senior Colombian official sought to delay the handover.

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said they were headed to the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, the Colombian capital.

``The two U.S. soldiers are now in American custody and will be at the U.S. Embassy in Bogota while U.S. officials attempt to ascertain more facts and determine how to proceed,'' said Whitman, who declined to comment on specifics of the accusations against the soldiers.

The soldiers were arrested Tuesday for their alleged involvement in a plot to traffic thousands of rounds of ammunition - possibly to outlawed right-wing paramilitary groups, authorities said. The soldiers worked at the sprawling Tolemaida air base near Carmen de Apicala, 50 miles southwest of the capital, Bogota.

The two American soldiers spent the night in a police holding cell in Ibague, a town in the mountains of west-central Colombia. On Thursday morning, they were hustled by authorities out a back door, eluding waiting journalists, and their immediate whereabouts were unknown.

Colombia's inspector general, Edgardo Jose Maya, asked Thursday for a 24-hour waiting period before the U.S. soldiers are deported so a 1974 treaty purportedly giving them diplomatic immunity could be studied.

In a letter to Colombian Attorney General Luis Camilo Osorio, Maya said the U.S.-Colombian treaty might be superseded by Colombia's 1991 constitution and other laws. A copy of the letter was obtained by The Associated Press.

plátano

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juancegomez says on May 5, 2005, 19:08:

I hope I live to see the day when the U.S. doesn't impose treaties on other nations in order to grant unfair, egoistical and unnecessary immunity to criminal individuals of their own nationality. But whatever...this 1974 treaty and later arrangements just suck (really, I'd prefer to use some other word, less infantile, but that's perfectly applicable and expresses some of my anger at the short end of the stick that we get here) and thus recent events in Colombia expose all that, again and again.

A possible result, if this keeps outs (U.S. individuals do bad things in Colombia and they are all "spirited away" to the States): a potential backlash may eventually occur, even if not in the short term, the treaties will be modified in some mmaner, and the U.S. won't really be too happy about it, when it happens.

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viewpoint says on May 6, 2005, 15:42:

If I was one of those two US Solders I would rather face the Colombian justice system than the treatment they might receive from a "US Military Court Marshall" if they are found guilty. They won't see the light of day for a long long long time if they are found guilty.

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Lionheart says on May 6, 2005, 22:06:

news update: Colombians Want Accused GIs to Stand Trial Colombians Want Accused GIs to Stand Trial

By KIM HOUSEGO, Associated Press Writer
Thu May 5, 6:51 PM ET

Two American soldiers accused of arms trafficking emerged from jail Thursday and were handed over to U.S. officials, but a top Colombian official tried to delay their deportation, saying a treaty granting them immunity might be invalid.

Inspector General Edgardo Jose Maya's move reflected a widespread sentiment among Colombians that the two U.S. Army soldiers — a chief warrant officer and a sergeant — should face trial in Colombia. They were arrested Tuesday in connection with an alleged plot to smuggle more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition, possibly to outlawed right-wing paramilitary death squads responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians.

"Allegations that the U.S. military personnel involved were trafficking in ammunition are, indeed, extremely troubling to us," U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in Washington.

Vice President Francisco Santos said if the two are taken to the United States, he hopes "they will be judged and that the punishments will be similar to what they would receive here."

Maya asked for a 24-hour extension before the soldiers are deported so a 1974 treaty that purportedly gives them diplomatic immunity can be examined. The treaty might be superseded by Colombia's 1991 Constitution and other laws, he said.

"In defense of the letter of the law, this Public Ministry believes it is important to analyze the situation in the face of the treaties and the supremacy of the Constitution," Maya wrote in a letter to Colombian Attorney General Luis Camilo Osorio, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press.

The case is being closely watched by Colombians frustrated by accusations of law-breaking by American soldiers. The mission of U.S. troops, backed by more than $3 billion in aid, is to help combat drug trafficking and guerrillas. Hundreds of Colombians accused of drug trafficking have been extradited to the United States to face trial as part of President Alvaro Uribe's get-tough measures.

But Colombians were aghast in March when five U.S. soldiers accused of smuggling cocaine to the United States from Colombia were flown to their homeland and detained there. No details of that case have been publicly disclosed.

Ruben Arias, heading to his job as a supermarket cashier, said he hoped the two accused soldiers wouldn't "be taken out of the country, like the other Americans captured with the cocaine. Who knows whether they will ever face justice?"

"The gringos should be charged here in Colombia," said Jose Luis Villalobos, a 67-year-old retired engineer who was walking his dog.

The two American soldiers — identified as Alan Norman Tanquary and Jesus Hernandez — spent the night in a police holding cell in Ibague, a town of crumbling brick buildings in the mountains of west-central Colombia. On Thursday morning, they were hustled by authorities out a back door, eluding waiting journalists. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said they were headed to the U.S. Embassy in Bogota.

"The two U.S. soldiers are now in American custody and will be while U.S. officials attempt to ascertain more facts and determine how to proceed," said Whitman, who declined to comment on specifics of the accusations against the soldiers.

The two soldiers would be flown to the United States "in the next few days," a U.S. Embassy official said, adding that U.S. authorities were committed to a full investigation and would work with Colombian authorities.

The two were detained during a raid in a gated neighborhood of summer homes 50 miles southwest of Bogota near the Tolemaida air base, where many U.S. servicemen are stationed.

Authorities said the two had been in contact with a former Colombian Police Sgt. Will Gabriel Aguilar, who has been linked to paramilitary groups. Aguilar, another retired policeman and two other Colombians were also arrested, police said.

The ammunition had been sent to Colombia by the United States under its Plan Colombia aid program.

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Sr Tertius says on May 7, 2005, 16:12:

Remarks on another Reactiopalooza "why not let the paramilitary right wing do the dirty work against the FARC?" WAY TO OPEN! I mean, you can't be serious... where to start... talk to the human rights folks, they have more patience with this sort of moronic statements.

"America's problem is we keep attempting to help those that refuse to help them selves" Oh, I love this one. No comments.

"UN Soldiers in the Congo raping young girls. Not much news given to it." NO??? When UN bashing is as much of a national sport here in the US as baseball? I get to hear about the excesses and omissions of the UN every single day in the morning. And if your news source is the very respectable FOX News, you get it for dinner too.

"By the way you are all welcome! You are welcome for defeating the march of Hitler Germany (...)" Oh, MY F*CKING GOD!! NOT AGAIN!!! Blah blah blah...

"I am sure those pointing fingers at the USA are all sporting their Che Guevara t-shirts. And he was no liberator. Just another dead communist!" Whoa... wait a second here, you are getting personal with your ignorance... I guess it comes with the show, like getting a chair thrown at you in one of those WWF matches.

"The US needs to do something quick before Uribe looses (sic) credibility and Navarro Wolf becomes the next Colombian president." I guess this is another of those favors that we get so often from Washington, for our own good, because we don't know any better. I'd say, why don't let the Colombians go through their own process in deciding who is their president?

"It is starting to seem like Latin America's 2 or 3 years of moderate prosperity and relative peace are coming to an end. :-(" What years...? oh, you mean those when we were living, as we say, "al debe". Oh, they're over alright. And people know that well. Take a stroll in BsAs, Montevideo or Quito and ask around.

Finally: If you break it in Colombia, you should pay it IN Colombia, whether you like that or not. Let me emphasize: SHOULD. Because that's not going to happen.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 7, 2005, 19:08:

Colombian Justice Just out of curiousity, what would the likely sentence (if any) be in the Colombian system for selling 30,000 rounds of ammo to the Paras?

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platano says on May 7, 2005, 22:35:

Update on the two soldiers...."Immunity does not mean impunity" WFMY News - Greensboro, NC
US To Let Colombia Question American Soldiers
Created: 5/7/2005 11:38:32 AM
Updated: 5/7/2005 11:47:49 AM


Bogota, Colombia -- The United States said Colombian prosecutors could question two US soldiers accused of selling arms to far-right death squads.

The US concession came amid growing anger in Colombia over Washington's refusal to allow the suspects to be tried in Colombia. But US Ambassador William Wood said the soldiers will be severely punished if found guilty by a US military court.

"Immunity does not mean impunity," he said.

Wood made the comments during a visit to western Tolima state where Warrant Officer Allan N. Tanquary and Sgt. Jesus Hernandez were arrested Tuesday at a luxury estate and accused of plotting to deliver 40,000 rounds of ammunition to a paramilitary militia.

They were turned over to US authorities on Thursday despite widespread calls from lawmakers and senior officials for them to face trial in Colombia. The case has deeply embarrassed Washington, coming less than two months after five US service members were detained for allegedly smuggling cocaine aboard a military aircraft to the United States.

Wood ruled out lifting the diplomatic immunity given to the soldiers under a 1974 treaty between the two nations. However, he said: "If Colombia wants to change our accord, we are always prepared to receive its proposal."

He said Colombian investigators will be allowed to question the suspects at the US embassy before they are flown to the United States within the coming days. The attorney general's office formally sought permission earlier Friday.

Defending the US military presence in Colombia, Wood noted that key crime rates such as homicide and kidnappings had sharply dropped across the country since the United States launched a $3.3 billion, five-year military aid program to combat drug traffickers and leftist rebels. Hundreds of American troops are stationed in the country to train local forces and provide logistical support and intelligence.

Tanquary's father, who said he had not spoken to his son since his arrest, defended the soldier.

"I've got great faith in my son, but I don't know anything about it other than what I've read in the papers," Jim Tanquary said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press from his home in Hendersonville, NC "Whatever has transpired down there (in Colombia), it's not something he's done for his own personal gain."

The United States has denied secretly helping the paramilitary United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, or AUC, which has been blamed for countless atrocities in its two-decade dirty war against Marxist rebels. Washington has labeled the AUC a terrorist organization.

Associated Press

plátano

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platano says on May 17, 2005, 17:09:

Update on Two Soldiers... Top Colombian official says treaty granting immunity to U.S. soldiers is invalid

BOGOTA, Colombia -- A treaty with the United States granting diplomatic immunity to American soldiers stationed in Colombia apparently violates Colombia's constitution, a top official said.

Inspector General Edgardo Maya said he will formally ask the Constitutional Court to rule on whether the 1974 agreement is invalid. He said a study recently carried out by his office concluded the treaty was superseded by Colombia's 1991 Constitution.

Maya's comments to a gathering of prosecutors in Bogota late Monday came after seven American servicemen were arrested in separate drug- and arms-smuggling plots in the past three months.

All the suspects have been flown to the United States under the immunity deal, drawing widespread anger and resentment in Colombia.

"We are going to submit a request for the Constitutional Court to rule definitively on the constitutionality of this treaty," Maya said. The court is duty bound to consider the request but it could take months for it to issue a ruling, an official at the Inspector General's office said.

Hundreds of American troops are based in Colombia as part of a US$3.3 billion (euro2.61 billion) five-year military aid program to provide training and logistical support to local forces battling a 40-year-old leftist insurgency fueled by drug trafficking.

Despite intense pressure, U.S. Ambassador William Wood has refused to lift the soldiers' immunity, insisting they will face justice in U.S. military courts. However, he indicated Washington was open to reviewing the treaty at Colombia's request.

Earlier this month, two U.S. soldiers -- a warrant officer and a sergeant -- were arrested in a plot to funnel more than 40,000 rounds of ammunition to a far-right death squad considered a terrorist organization by the United States. In March, five U.S. military personnel were detained for allegedly smuggling cocaine to the United States

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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platano says on May 18, 2005, 21:34:

Update...Wednesday May 18, 2005 Three Colombians detained for allegedly helping U.S. soldiers smuggle cocaine
Associated Press , Wednesday , May 18, 2005

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Lionheart says on May 19, 2005, 01:07:

Colombians Detained for Alleged Smuggling
Wed May 18, 6:33 PM ET

Authorities arrested three Colombians, including a former serviceman, for allegedly helping American soldiers smuggle cocaine to the United States aboard a U.S. military aircraft, officials said Wednesday.

Five U.S. military personnel were previously arrested in the case, which sparked widespread anger in Colombia. One suspect has since been released, but the others are held at an undisclosed location in the United States.

The detained Colombians are a retired air force officer and two civilians, the Colombian Air Force said in a statement. It provided no details on their alleged role in the drug trafficking plot.

The case emerged when U.S. military officials discovered a shipment of more than 30 pounds of cocaine aboard a U.S. military plane that flew to El Paso, Texas from Colombia's Apiay air base on March 28.

Hundreds of American soldiers are stationed in Colombia to train and provide logistical support to local forces battling a 40-year-old Marxist insurgency fueled by drug trafficking.

The troops are formally attached to the U.S. Embassy and thus have diplomatic immunity. Washington, however, has faced growing calls from lawmakers and ordinary Colombians to change the rules and allow them to face charges in Colombia.

Earlier this month, two U.S. soldiers were arrested in Colombia for allegedly selling ammunition to a far right-paramilitary militia. The pair have since been flown to the United States.

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platano says on Jun 30, 2005, 05:43:

FARC adoption of suicide missions as a military tactic.... b bruce said: "Perhaps the best thing that could happen would be the FARC getting into bed with the Al Qaeda."

One might be tempted to respond that FARC would not adopt that strategy because the FARC are not Islamic fanatics. But the world's leading group utilizing suicide as a military tactic are secular Marxist-Leninists, not Islamic fundamentalists. FARC fits the bill perfectly.

I recommend readers of PBH read a new book called Dying to Win : The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism by Robert Pape, a national security scholar who has taught at the U.S. Air Force’s School of Advanced Airpower Studies. According to the findings of his research, if the USA increases troop presence in Colombia FARC would be likely to adopt suicide missions.

"Suicide terrorism is rising around the world, but there is great confusion as to why. In this paradigm-shifting analysis, University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape has collected groundbreaking evidence to explain the strategic, social, and individual factors responsible for this growing threat.

One of the world’s foremost authorities on the subject, Professor Pape has created the first comprehensive database of every suicide terrorist attack in the world from 1980 until today. With striking clarity and precision, Professor Pape uses this unprecedented research to debunk widely held misconceptions about the nature of suicide terrorism and provide a new lens that makes sense of the threat we face.

FACT: Suicide terrorism is not primarily a product of Islamic fundamentalism.

FACT: The world’s leading practitioners of suicide terrorism are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka–a secular, Marxist-Leninist group drawn from Hindu families.

FACT: Ninety-five percent of suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of coherent campaigns organized by large militant organizations with significant public support.

FACT: Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.

FACT: Al-Qaeda fits the above pattern. Although Saudi Arabia is not under American military occupation per se, one major objective of al-Qaeda is the expulsion of U.S. troops from the Persian Gulf region, and as a result there have been repeated attacks by terrorists loyal to Osama bin Laden against American troops in Saudi Arabia and the region as a whole.

FACT: Despite their rhetoric, democracies–including the United States–have routinely made concessions to suicide terrorists. Suicide terrorism is on the rise because terrorists have learned that it’s effective.

In this wide-ranging analysis, Professor Pape offers the essential tools to forecast when some groups are likely to resort to suicide terrorism and when they are not. He also provides the first comprehensive demographic profile of modern suicide terrorist attackers. With data from more than 460 such attackers–including the names of 333–we now know that these individuals are not mainly poor, desperate criminals or uneducated religious fanatics but are often well-educated, middle-class political activists.

More than simply advancing new theory and facts, these pages also answer key questions about the war on terror:

• Are we safer now than we were before September 11?
• Was the invasion of Iraq a good counterterrorist move?
• Is al-Qaeda stronger now than it was before September 11?

Professor Pape answers these questions with analysis grounded in fact, not politics, and recommends concrete ways for today’s states to fight and prevent terrorist attacks. Military options may disrupt terrorist operations in the short term, but a lasting solution to suicide terrorism will require a comprehensive, long-term approach–one that abandons visions of empire and relies on a combined strategy of vigorous homeland security, nation building in troubled states, and greater energy independence.

For both policy makers and the general public, Dying to Win transcends speculation with systematic scholarship, making it one of the most important political studies of recent time.

About the Author
Robert A. Pape is associate professor of political science at the University of Chicago, where he teaches international politics and is the director of the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism. A distinguished scholar of national security affairs, he writes widely on coercive airpower, economic sanctions, international moral action, and the politics of unipolarity and has taught international relations at Dartmouth College and air strategy for the U.S. Air Force’s School of Advanced Airpower Studies. He is a contributor to The New York Times, Foreign Affairs, The New Republic, and The Washington Post and has appeared on ABC’s Nightline and World News Tonight, National Public Radio, and other national television and radio programs.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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pure_country says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:02:

One-sided story You've heard the media side of the story and have never heard from the military or the soldiers who have allegedly tried to sell the ammo. There's always 3 sides of the story, the media side, the accused side and the TRUTH. I am a family member of one of the soldiers and have spoken to him about the accusations. Everyone is so quick to make judgment on something they really don't know much about.

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juancegomez says on Aug 2, 2005, 12:20:

Forgive me for saying this, but until proven otherwise (they are legally innocent until proven guilty, but they were found in less than innocent circumstances), it's hard to not assume that, to a certain extent, the soldiers (who obviously acted in cooperation with Colombian nationals) might theoretically be trying to defend themselves even at the expense of the truth of whatever they actually did, in order to reduce the pressure on them and their families. That happens here, just as it happens in Irak and in the U.S.

Perhaps your family member himself had little to do with this, that's possible and I can't say otherwise, but until the matter is cleared up, he's hardly the only one involved that can tell us what happened.

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davidfounds says on Sep 13, 2005, 12:30:

any info on what happened to these guys Anyone know if they went to trial? Jail? set free?

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juancegomez says on Sep 15, 2005, 16:27:

They might not be getting the degree of punishment that the U.S. would probably demand from Colombian authorities if the case were reversed (actually, some Colombians have also been arrested in connection with this), but they aren't being let totally off the hook either..


Something that happened today:

Soldier Pleads Guilty to Role in Smuggling

By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 39 minutes ago

FORT BLISS, Texas - A soldier stationed in Colombia as part of the U.S. war on drugs pleaded guilty Thursday to participating in a scheme to smuggle cocaine into the United States using military planes.
ADVERTISEMENT

Army Staff Sgt. Kelvin Irizarry-Melendez pleaded guilty to conspiracy, wrongful importation of cocaine and a charge related to taking money to Colombia.

The judge, Lt. Col. Jeffery Nance, accepted the plea, and a sentencing hearing was scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

Irizarry-Melendez and three other soldiers were accused of smuggling cocaine from a U.S. base in Colombia. All four have been jailed since their arrests earlier this year.

Irizarry-Melendez also was accused of making a false official statement, illegal use of cocaine and illegal use and transportation of weapons, according to post officials. The status of those charges was unclear Thursday.

Accused ringleader Staff Sgt. Daniel Rosas, who is scheduled to stand trial later this month, told investigators that he and Irizarry-Melendez were responsible for the drug smuggling, with the other two soldiers concentrating mostly on fronting money to buy the drugs.

Irizarry-Melendez told the judge Thursday that he assisted the operation but didn't smuggle drugs or money.

Spec. Francisco Rosa pleaded guilty last month to a series of charges and was sentenced to five years in prison, a reduction in rank to private and a bad-conduct discharge.

Staff Sgt. Victor J. Portales is scheduled for trial in November.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050915/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/soldiers_cocaine_smuggling_2

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TR says on Sep 16, 2005, 10:19:

US Soldiers in Colombia Having first hand knowledge of what goes on in Colombia I am not the least surprised at this. The truth be known there are many others invloved in the corruption that US forces are there to battle. NOt all are bad and mean well and do their job but 30% or more are involved in drugs, ammo, prostitution, and among other illecit activities.

The GI's(privates to Colonels) in Colombia are given US $6-8 thousand dollars per month to live, and they live well residing in the most exclusive areas of Bogota and Cartagena. They are drunk women chasers and produce about 10 hours a week of work, the other time chasing prostitutes recoverying from hangovers and spending,their other US $2-3 thousand USD's in "living expenses" or about USD $75.00 per day in addition to their housing allowance. They are actualy paid "hazardous duty pay" in Bogota if you can believe that..it's all true and this war on drugs in Colombia is such BS.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 16, 2005, 10:23:

I don't think so $8,000 a month is $100,000 a year. NO private in the US military makes even half of that. A full Colonel might make that will years of service and other factors, but of all the complaints I can think of against the US military, being overpaid is not one of them.

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platano says on Sep 16, 2005, 11:36:

USA Military is an Overpaid Mercenary Killing Force... Commissioned officer ranks go from 01 to 012. Take, for example, Rank 08 with 12 years experience. The monthly pay for FY2005 was USD$9519.00 which equals USD$114,228 annual. As I say there are ranks higher and lower.

I think we have established on PBH that you need far less than USD$114,228 to live comfortably in Bogota.

The lowest you can go is an enlisted base pay, Rank E-1, with less than four months experience, which is USD$1142.70 per month. But, hold on, that's just the base pay.

Futhermore, the military is better than welfare: you get lots of extra benefits: Reservists Income Replacement (up to USD$3,000 per month), housing allowance, food allowance, supplemental subsistance allowance, concurrent receipt, serviceman's group life insurance, death gratuity, imminent danger pay when hospitalized, wounded warrior pay, retroactive imminent danger pay, assignment incentive pay, enlistment & reenlistment bonuses, sea pay, flight pay, submarine duty pay, PCS/TDY mileage travel rates, family separation allowance, housing allowance for members paying child/spouse support, dislocation allowance, etc.

Futhermore, military pay increases across the board were 3.5% in FY2005. This year, FY2006, the increase is 3.1%. USA military in Colombia are very well paid.

Furthermore, you get lifelong veteran's preferences and lots of educational benefits.

Best paid mercenary army in the history of the world. All you have to do is be willing to work in collaboration with others to kill other human beings who have done nothing to you, including women and children and civilians of all ages (also called "collateral damage"). Sell your soul, in other words.

Plátano, el bobo simplón
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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ws244 says on Sep 16, 2005, 13:08:

military Well at least some of us actually contributed something back to our country by being in the military, even those of us who only spent 4 years in it some 40 years ago.

I am all for a new liberal president instead of Uribe, as in about 2 years i could buy an apartment in Colombia for 50 cents on the dollar as one could 4 years ago under Pastrana, and all the while reading the same disparaging remarks about the states.

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platano says on Sep 16, 2005, 13:14:

ws244, there are different ways to contribute... I was ordered by my draft board to do two years of alternative service because I am a conscientious objector to war--ALL WAR!!!!

I worked two years in a hospital and did my service for my country.

I get no educational benefits, no preferences for my service rendered, none of the benefits other veterans get who served in noncombatant positions. And I am a USA citizen and that gives me the right to make disparaging remarks about the states. I consider it a duty.

I want USA troops out of Colombia (including advisers and rent-a-soldiers). NOW!
I am ashamed of the USA for being the world's largest arms seller sending weapons to Colombia to kill Colombians and sending corrupt soldiers Colombia who smuggle cocaine and supplying poisons to spray on Colombians.

Plátano

plátano

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BAQ says on Sep 16, 2005, 22:30:

TR IS A TROLL TR, aside from being a TROLL, you have no clue what you are talking about. "Having first hand knowledge"? The ONLY thing you have in your hand is your JOHNSON, it sure isn;t KNOWLEDGE.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Sep 16, 2005, 22:50:

Military are like to Police Ya know, the military are like the police, NO ONE wants em UNTIL they need em, then get pissed if they don;t show up johnny on the spot.

LOOK AT KATRINA, that is a shinning example. If you had asked people about FEDERAL TROOPS patrolling the streets of New Orleans (a predominantly minority city) BEFORE Katrina hit, people would have been shouting and screaming at the rooftops objecting to the very THOUGHT of it.

So what happened AFTER Katrina hit? People were screaming WHERE IS THE MILITARY? WE WANT FEDERAL TROOPS !!!!!!!!

Unfortunatly, you can't have it both ways. I respect anyone's view, if they don;t like the military fine, but if you are going to complain about them, then don;t start to complain down the road when you want them or need them and they don;t show up.

I am prior military and when I served, I followed my orders, went where I was told and carried out our mission and I have no regrets. If you think that being in the military is a cake walk and you get "Great benefits" then you have never served. If you don;t agree, next time you need medical care, go to a VA hospital. Personally, I wouldn;t take my dog to be treated at the VA. The pay sucks, the hours are long ect. The only good part is getting to play with some EXCELLENT toys and blowing shit up!

Being a "conscientious objector to war--ALL WAR" sounds good but that is not reality. Yes, the world would be a GREAT place with no war, but as long as "Man" inhabits this planet, there are going to be wars and a need for a military to defend the motherland.

Semper Fidelis !

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juancegomez says on Sep 17, 2005, 06:35:

I wouldn't be too trigger happy about the 40 years thing... For what little it matters, you'd be hardpressed to prove that the country was actually in anything seriously resembling a civil war before the mid-1980s or 1990s in both quantity and quality, unless you automatically count the existence of insurgencies as a civil war (then even Peru is still in a civil war with Shining Path remnants).

And even then...it's been debatable enough for serious academics to disagree (irrespective of any and all for profit media references and their "40 year civil war" spiel). Though I do definitely agree about mostly Colombia itself been responsible for not being able to correctly manage the situation thus far (but admittedly the U.S.-imposed "war on drugs" has helped to make things worse than they could be). Still, all wars have a beginning and an end, "going on forever" is impossible (though "for a long time" surely is).

Just a well, the situation's different enough from Vietnam except in a couple of superficial aspects (oh, there's jungle here and leftwing guys jumping around there in a similar fashion! But no North Vietnam and South Vietnam, nor does their historical background match). Heck, it's not as the U.S. Armed Forces are actually carrying the brunt of the fighting or anything close to that, though its monetary involvement is important, but not exclusivily responsible for the war, as some naively want to think.

And for that matter...blaming the so-called re-surgence of the FARC on something as tied to simple human will like "Uribe resting on his laurels" is simplistic, as even Uribe's closest connection to the paramilitaries is much more social and ideological rather than material and directly "supportive". But this isn't evident from simple news media reports.

The FARC haven't been growing the last 20 years resting on their own laurels, so it's not something that any adminstration, whether led by a clone of Uribe or by a completely opposite anti-uribist, can solve in a short while (not to mention solving the situation with the paramilitaries and the druglords).

While I generally don't support the immediate reelection of individuals, and still don't, having greater consistency in policies, including both security and peace policies, is definitely something that Colombia needs, because the existing problems aren't going to be magically resolved within 4 years of anybody's term.

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platano says on Sep 17, 2005, 07:05:

"the situation's different enough from Vietnam" juancegomez, I would guess you do not own property in rural Cauca. I do. And sitting in your own home at night and hearing the rattaatattatattattatat of Blackhawk machine guns overhead firing and not knowing if your house might be hit... that is similar to the kind of terror visited upon Vietnamese civilians. Of course, I acknowledge there are differences, but it is USA-backed terrorism in both cases.

Plátano X
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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juancegomez says on Sep 17, 2005, 08:29:

Neither I nor anyone has to own property in rural Cauca to know that it's far from heaven out there, lest you think I'm sitting here totally oblivious to that.

Hearing helicopters fly by and machine gun fire doesn't suddenly turn Colombia into Vietnam, nor does it automatically equal "U.S. backed terrorism", as you put it.

Obviously the sounds of helicopters may evoke terror among parts of the population in some circumstances, but not always. You'd have to prove that such a thing happens most of the time, and even that would still not be "terrorism" unless you can prove that the intention was to terrorize or at least cause harm.

If it was, then you'd have to include all the FARC's communiques and all the "not directly violent" sounds that they make as "terrorism" (or "anti-U.S. terrorism" if you prefer) as well, since they also cause terror among parts of the population, perhaps even in equal or larger doses depending on the circumstances.

As for machine gunfire and combat, the FARC, the AUC and groups of common criminals use machine guns and many other weapons as well, and it's logical for the sounds of ALL weapons, from ALL parties, to produce terror.

Most terrorism in Colombia extends from direct threats and direct actions, of which all groups are obviously guilty, in different degrees.

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platano says on Sep 17, 2005, 08:49:

The definition of the word "terrorism" is in debate and I am not going to argue about the word when I've had the experience of not being able to sleep at night, worrying about how many of my neighbors might be dead in the morning.

I will, once again, say that I condemn violence used by all sides of the conflict. My son was a victim of FARC terror while doing his "año rural" in a small hospital. FARC arrives at 2 in the morning, pins down the police with fire, blows up the Caja Agraria, and terrorizes the people who also are not able to sleep and worry about how many of their neighbors might be dead in the morning.

So, I am in definite agreement with your last sentence: "...it's logical for the sounds of ALL weapons, from ALL parties, to produce terror."

Plátano X

plátano

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 17, 2005, 09:00:

Immaculate conception or step son? You once volunteered that you were snipped at age 19 and never regretted it... Maybe we should call the Pope?

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platano says on Sep 17, 2005, 09:13:

Tinto, I call him son but he is my step son.

I have never regretted having a vasectomy. The world has been spared my offspring.

Plátano X
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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