Colombia and Her Reputation

ColombianoX says on Feb 3, 2005, 15:02:

Colombia gets a bad reputation because the international media is so obsessed with focusing mostly on the negative aspects of Colombia.
But the world is finally discovering that there's A LOT more to Colombia than the negatively-biased stories some reporters only seem to care about when covering Colombia.

I recommend you visit these pages:


www.theotherlookofcolombia.com

www.yocreoencolombia.com


VIVA COLOMBIAAAAAAAA!!!!!!


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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goosekirk says on Feb 3, 2005, 15:09:

The big problem I think the big problem with the reputation is that there is a remarkably complicated war here. Terrible things happen every day, and certainly not just between soldiers (read Mrs. Gomez' recent post for an idea). The thing that many people don't seem to realize is that there is a big difference between violence among Colombians and violence against foreign tourists. As far as I've been able to tell, tourists are actually reasonably safe here... barring horrible luck, I think you'd have to be fairly dumb or deliberately suicidal to get into serious trouble. That means, like you'll hear over and over again, do a little research and don't go places where people tell you you shouldn't go. Things do happen from time to time, like the kidnapped hikers a year or so ago, but really, the odds of that sort of thing are so long, you're much better off spending your worry time fretting about being hit by a bus.

Seriously... be careful crossing the street here. As a pedestrian, you're the lowest on the food chain.

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sandramoreno80 says on Feb 3, 2005, 15:25:

I have travelled to Colombia tons of times during my life (24 years) and even lived there for three years. I am British born with Colombian parents so the language has never been a problem and obviously I am of Colombian appearance. But I know that I stand just about the same chance of being a victim of crime as any other person in Colombia.

I have been robbed, when I was living in Medellin, about 2 blocks from my home, by a gang of youths. Do not even know if they were armed, but they asked for my bag and I gave it to them fast. Lucky it was just my uni bag and the local watchman found by books thrown in the street the next day. It was late (i.e dark), about 7pm and out of pure misthought I decided to walk the 5 blocks from the main avenida where my bus had left me. This did make me more paranoid, I always take taxis at night, always, wherever I am.

Will tourists be singled out just because they are foreign and an easy prey? Will you be robbed at a cash point? Are tourists the only people taking cash out of a cash point machine? My cousin was robbed in Medellin coming out of a bank after he had taken out a million pesos to pay his rent, someone approached him with a gun and told him to hand it over, then ran to a moto waiting for him.

Just have common sense, like you would in any country and stick to populated/popular places with Colombian tourists alike. I would visit the Zona Cafetera because it is so beautiful and there is lots to see and do, including a 6 hour river raft ride on the Rio Vieja, the inspiring vistas at Cocora (Salento), the Parque Del Cafe in Montenegro, thermal spring baths at Santa Rosa De Cabal.

Espero que te vaya bien en el viaje

BRITANICA

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carldecolorado says on Feb 3, 2005, 15:36:

I agree with the other post on this thread If you are cautious, just like you would be in any other big city around the world you will be fine.

Also like sandramoreno80 said visit the Zona Cafetera region if the opportunity arrises. The balsa rides down the river are incredible and the views around Solento are very very beautiful.

Carldecolorado

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santiBOG says on Feb 3, 2005, 15:55:

EROADZ.. I think you're being overly cautios. Don't worry about the way you pronounce the letter C. It does not matter. Just exercise the same caution that you would when visiting any big city or any foreign country. Be smart. Ask locals for advice. Period.

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kernow62 says on Feb 3, 2005, 16:14:

If I were you I would purchase kidnap insurance from GIB. He'll give you a good deal if you tell him kernow62 sent you. We are as thick as piss.

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Cerealkiller says on Feb 3, 2005, 16:52:

Goosekirk, remember: There is no war, there is no conflict. Its only a group of ruthless terrorists trying to tear the country apart ;)
-That according to President Uribe.
Eroadz, be careful. Stick to touristy places -since this is your first time- and youll have a great time.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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jaramillo says on Feb 3, 2005, 17:58:

Reputation Did you read the next to previous post by Mrs. Gomez?

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 3, 2005, 19:59:

Colombia's bad reputation is certainly well-deserved but it is not nearly as dangerous as the US state department reports would have you believe. Safety has to be your paramount concern all of the time and if you're not used to that, you need to get used to it. I'm not used to worrying about my safety so I rely on my wife to do so. For Colombians it's pretty much second-nature. One of the reasons I prefer Monteria to Medellin is you don't have to worry about that crap all the time and I can live like I do here in Texas without looking over my shoulder. In Medellin you have to be alert every moment.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lauthra says on Feb 3, 2005, 22:44:

I believe... That it doesn't help much, when in a lovely friendly (sometimes) Forum about colombia like this, most of the people you encounter aren't even in the country! Still, they speak wonders of it...just my opinion...
*runs for cover and puts armour on*
Nato

Nato (='.'=)

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 3, 2005, 23:11:

Well Lauthra....this time I agree with you !! Lauthra is correct. I hate to say it Eddie, most of these people don't live in Colombia and only visit there occasionally. I was born in Bogota, and I still have family there. I do go there about twice a year.

Look, now that you have heard all these silly words like, "use common sense", "just be carefull","exercise caution", and similar words that make no sense at all, I can tell you that you, as a tourist are just that, a tourist. Tourists 1. don't know the area and 2. like to explore areas they travel. It is not the same as people who live in a city and know where and where not to go. Therefore, the mere fact that you are touring, by definition makes you more vulnerable than a local in terms of being a crime victim. Remember another thing, tourists look like tourists. When you are a Gringo tourist, you really look like a tourist. The clothes, the physcial appearance, the way you walk, (because you are amazed by Colombia's beauty and interesting places)make you easily stand out. One thing I will tell you with certainty, Colombia's street thieves are very smart, and when they target someone, they often succeede in turning their target into an unsuspecing victim. You can ask any Bogotano about how successfull the "gamines" and alike are in that city.

Colombia IS and has been for some time in a state of Civil war. A fool %40 of the geography is physically being controlled in every respect by one or more guerilla organizations. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that that fact alone means that there is a greater amount of danger in the country then there would be in the US or in any western European country that I know of. I have not even talked about the problems with kidnappings, extortion, and street crime which is quite pervasive.

Now with that being said, if you go as a tourist, and you stay in cities like Bogota and Cartagena, and if you are alone you will in all likliness be pk. If yougo to any other major city, you have to have a local to escort an tour with you. Therefore it is possible to have a very enjoyable time.

But to just summarily dismiss the violence problem, is idiotic.

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N2Aquatix says on Feb 4, 2005, 08:10:

Bad Press All I can say on this one is that my novia hates the reputation that the media has given Colombia. She says that people are too quick to stereotype Colombians because of it. I have to agree with her. When I told my friends that I was going to Colombia to meet her, they all had negative things to say about the country and the people. I had a great time and everyone that I met was very friendly. Heck, she and I walked through the whole city of Barranquilla almost and nobody hardly gave us a second glance. I did get the impression that gringos are very commonplace in that town though.

Jay

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 08:40:

"When I told my friends that I was going to Colombia to meet her, they all had negative things to say about the country and the people."


It just amazes me how people who probably can't even locate Colombia on a world map would presume to make such ignorant comments. Sadly, besides being a victim of violence, my beloved Colombia is also a victim of bigotry and discrimination.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 09:05:

Just yesterday I heard two people make ignorant statements about Colombia. One from a friend and the other from a friend of a friend. My friend says 'You are going back to drug land? Don't call me for ransom, I don't have any money.' The other guy says 'You going to date a drug dealer over there?'

Maybe Colombia earned its reputation for drugs and kidnapping, but to make such statements regarding the general population is stupid. How can an intelligent person think the general population are a bunch of drug dealers and kidnappers?

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 09:38:

fzrdan.....I think you are taking them too literally Look, whenever people generalize about a country and the political/economic turmoil that confronts a country, don't you think that people realize that all countries have many good people.
But uh...excuse me, isn't Colombian where %80 of the worlds supply of Cocaine and increasing large supply of herioin and hemp comes from. It is also the country where it is distributed to other parts of the world. It is also the country that was primarily responsible for teaching our neigbors to the south, Mexico, to be drug lords and distribution point for drugs into this country. It also has one of the highest kidnapp rates in the world. How much do you want to hear?

Therefore, one can't put their head in the sand and say..."oh everything is just fine over there." Bad publicity, and stereotyping has its roots from reality. There is such a thing as an exagerated sense of reality, and I would agree that the US embassy's travel advisory does a good job at exagerating the degree of danger there.
But that is their job....Their job is to warn Americans on the side of being safe. Americans can come on this web site every minute of everyday, and read fool after fool say that "if you are carefull, everything will be fine...it's no worse than Detroit."

Hey fzrdan, you are starting to think likea tempermental Colombian
You know, the truth hurts sometimes, but it is still nonetheless the
truth.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 09:46:

Tinto...you and others amaze me You know, it was only 2 weeks ago, you made a post of an article about the guy from Miami who moved back to Colombian to open a business only to get calls extorting mone and/or a kidnapping---whatever...I t certainly did not have anything positive whatso ever to say. Ms. Gomez mad a posting as to her experience. Also..not to good.

And what happens here??? The same BS. Everybody sits here mum. Maybe three or 4 threads sometimes 6 or 7 follow. Funny, how a sort of quietness sets in. But say something bad, and out come the forces ready to defend the problems and Colombian at all costs. You just dis so with your above post. What's going on here?

THESE THINGS JUST DON'T HAPPEN IN THE US!! Yet I read again and again, the same comparisons. Either the majoity of the people here have an utterly distorted sense of logic, or the denial is so deep and widespread, that there is a total inability to acknowledge reality

Maybe you can explain this inconsistency

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 10:07:

gomezman, I am sure they were joking but I am also sure that they do buy into all the propoganda about Colombia. Since most of the worlds cocaine comes from there, it must be an accepted thing by the general population. You can't tell me there aren't people that think like that.

You are also right about me starting to think like a tempermental Colombian. I don't like people making idiotic comments about a place they know nothing about. I didn't jump their case for it or anything.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 10:41:

Fzrdan "making idiotic comments about a place they know nothing about"

Comments about things they nothing about? They can read can't they?
They have access to the internet don't they? They have cable TV don't they? Or do these people just live in a bubble??

If there is one thing that is universal, wheter it be a liberal or a conservative publication, whether it be CNN, FOX news, NPR, BBC, Time magazine, the New York Times, and an untold number of scholarly publications, everyone of the these media sources at one time or another have had artcles about Colombia....and rarely, if I may add, do they paint a pretty picture. So I guess you are saying that they are all misinformed and biased?? You certainly are implying it.

Did you ever here the old saying "Where there is smoke, there is fire"?

So now I ask you seriously, do you really think that just because you have this curious desire to visit a land that you are being told not to go to, and the fact that you have made 1 five day visit there, and the fact that you have a lovely senorita over there, that YOU are in a better position to decide or advise people as to how safe or not safe a country is???

That is a rhetorical question of course that requires not answer.

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goosekirk says on Feb 4, 2005, 10:53:

I'll bite So this is my sixth month living in Bogota. I'm not a native, but I'm not posting this from fantasyland, either. I'm sorry I'm not posting more doom and gloom, but after six months I have to call it like I see it. Advice and admonitions for tourists on the streets is always good, but I still don't understand this:

"I have not even talked about the problems with kidnappings, extortion,"

Which is just as well, as a tourist is very highly unlikely to have any contact with such things in Colombia. But thanks for mentioning it anyway.

"and street crime which is quite pervasive"

Now where is it "pervasive?" Perhaps in Cali, or maybe parts of Bogota that I don't know about, but I don't see it in the places I go in Bogota and neither does anyone else I know. Care to define pervasive? I don't think it's an accurate word to describe what I see here EVERY DAY, as I walk around the streets with my camera and obvious gringoness.

"But to just summarily dismiss the violence problem, is idiotic."

OK. Let's not summarily dismiss the violence problem. Now what?

I don't think it's likely that any visitor is completely unfamiliar with the fact that there are problems in Colombia. Every book, every person in Colombia, and every thread on this board will tell the tourist that there are places they shouldn't go. "Colombia" and "kidnapping statistics" practically go hand-in-hand anywhere you care to look. Fzrdan accurately points out that even smart people in the US think Colombia's nothing but a drug-riddled war zone. So people come to this site, wondering what to expect as a first-time visitor... and I see people saying, have fun, it's not really that bad, but be careful like any big city. And this is too pollyanna for some people?

There don't seem to be many Mr. Magoo tourists absent-mindedly wandering off into Farcland. So what is it you're hoping to accomplish here by not summarily dismissing the violence problem? To what end do we remind people on this site that Colombia's a drug-riddled war zone? Who's it going to save from what cruel fate?

I can't help but feel it's as if people in Iowa were warning people on their way to visit Manhattan to watch out for terrorists. Fine, even if they moved to Iowa after escaping the burning towers, what's the point? Like, thanks, Wilbur, I'll sure 'nuff keep my eyes peeled! Thanks for the tip!

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 10:56:

Tinto...that's not my point My point is that in spite of the overwhelming amount of evidence as to the security situation in Colombia, poeple are so rediculously one sided in their views, and so easily turn a blind eye to reality, it makes me wonder if they have lost their ability to think clearly and rationaly.

I don't follow where you were coming from with the bigotry and racism stuff??? I never mentioned that you were!! I was adressing how you had commented about you think that there is an exagerated level of violence/security problem on the one hand, but on the other hand, when you posted that article, is only ratifies what the media at large has been saying about Colombia for a long time and that people refuse to accept.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:04:

Goosekirk You took practically every quote I said out of context.

I simply will not respond to you when yourr counter points center on taking my points out of the context in which it was written. If you are going to debate the issue with me, address the salient points that I make, please don't take part of a sentence or a sentence that is part of a greater comment, and quote me in such a way that it takes on a different meaning of the thought that I was trying to convey.

That sir, is not fair debate.

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lpdiver says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:06:

Colombia I think should be more worried about my reputation.


JEJEJE

Antony

"cook some rice!"

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goosekirk says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:22:

What context? OK, let's throw in another quote; perhaps this is the context you're talking about?

"Now with that being said, if you go as a tourist, and you stay in cities like Bogota and Cartagena, and if you are alone you will in all likliness be pk. If yougo to any other major city, you have to have a local to escort an tour with you."

OK, so what you're saying is, tourists will likely be fine in Colombia, but Colombia has a war and it's not safe for Colombians?

Is the point really this: "poeple are so rediculously one sided in their views, and so easily turn a blind eye to reality, it makes me wonder if they have lost their ability to think clearly and rationaly."

Well, if that's the point, I'm telling you very rationally that I read and I know about Colombia's history and its violence and I know what's happening now, and I'm still not afraid to visit here, live here, or walk the streets, and I'm comfortable telling others to come here as well. And come to think of it, so are you.

You might have noticed, there is a forum for discussing the war, and violence, and kidnapping and politics and other horrors, and this isn't that forum. I agree, even a casual visitor should read up on these things as well, but the fact is, even a casual visitor already knows there are problems here. But what are you saying? If we don't talk about it at every opportunity, then we're blind idiots? If we don't continually pound these things into every tourist's head on this board, they're going to... what, forget about it and wander off into Farcland? Get themselves extorted? What is it? I don't get it.

And context or not, you did state as fact that street crime in Colombia is "pervasive," which I don't agree is an accurate depiction of the reality I see here every day... and I still feel as if I'm being called an out-of-touch fool for not agreeing with that statement, when you don't even have anecdotal evidence to support the characterization as "pervasive." How do you define that, and how do you back it up?

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goosekirk says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:41:

Oh, for sure No doubt, my smashing good looks (and let's not forget natural charm, rapier wit and Adonis-like build, for good measure) have saved the day for me. The first phrase I learned in spanish was "Not in the face! Not in the face!" and it's really worked wonders for me. After all, few people feel good about beating up a sissy. But look, this is Colombia, and plastic surgery is cheap. There's no excuse why everyone can't be as devastatingly handsome, and therefore trouble-free, as me!

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:50:

Goosekirk, what you see.............. And what exits, are two very unrelated matters.

So you have been a lucky guy. But like I have said many many times, You can say you are going to close your eyes and cross the street without looking, and you may in fact arrive to the other side unharmed. You may even do it 3 or 4 times. Maybe 10 times. But, the fact that you suceeded in doing so over and over again, does that make it any more safe or less dangerous? The answer is obviously NO, because sooner or later, you will get splattered, and remember, all it takes is once.

This is the old "the glass is half empty, the glass if half full argument." Same variables, different interpretation. We will simply have to agree to disagree and that is that.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:57:

Tinto..... Thanks for the clarification. I agree, there are so many wonderful things about Colombia, it's culture and it's music that virtually never gets reported.

I just wish to God that Colombia is loosing not millions, but billions of dollars because of this ongoing violence and the civil war in general. It's a civil war....and nothing less. Until, it ends I don't see much of a future in terms of having a greater Colombia that the world can admire.

I am tired of having to describe Colombia from a negative perspective, and then mention the positves as a exception to its negative image. I would prefer to be able to describe Colombia from a positive perspective from the start, and then mention the negatives as exceptions to the otherwise positive aspects that would be descriptive of her.

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:58:

In my case It really pisses me off, that only under 2% of Colombia's population grants us our bad reputation, the other 98% percent it's meaningless to the media. Oh yeah, our coffee and Shakira, that's like the only good things that people have to say about Colombia...
Goosekirk, no offence, but have you considered changing your handle to Narcissus?
*keeps running for cover*
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 11:58:

gomezman, I was making my statements more about the drugs than the violence. Do I know more about Colombia just because of my one 5 day visit? I sure do because I have been doing some real reading and research on the country. Not just reading the state department website or watching movies like most people do. Am I more qualified to make an informed statement than my two friends? YES. Am I more qualified to make an informed statement than you or other colombians (or gringos living in Colombia)? No.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:01:

Lauthra Unfortunately that is simply human nature. The negatives in any situation always get more attention than the positives. In the US we have a time tested expression that hold true to this day:

"One bad apple spoils the bunch".

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:36:

ARGH! Yes, as a Communications student, I've come to study that sort of ‘glitch’ in the mass media communications; they seem to not know their inherent power towards the masses, and the fact that it's not innocuous... ARGH!
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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YEP says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:41:

Ehm Lauthra .....

they seem to not know their inherent power towards the masses

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 12:48:

Me too? Err, in what respect?
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:00:

Gomezman,

"Look, whenever people generalize about a country and the political/economic turmoil that confronts a country, don't you think that people realize that all countries have many good people."

NO, I don't think that "people realize that all countries have many good people". Ignorant and insensitive comments like the ones from Fzrdan's friends or Tinto's brother demonstrate this:

"My friend says 'You are going back to drug land?"

I just wish I was there when he said this. I would have immediately reminded this poor fool who is the world's LEADING DRUG CONSUMER, Maybe then he'd think twice about who the true "drug land" really is!



ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:04:

CX, I agree with everything you just said. That may be a first!:)

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:11:

ColX I am certain that people realize that all countries in the world have good aspects or at least interesting aspects that are unique to that particular country. But, when you offering advise to someone as to wheter they should or should not travel to a country because of its inherent security related problems, to the extent that a country does in fact have redeeming qualities, those qualities become irrelevent because the negative outweighs the positive.

In other words if you are a tourist, and you are trying to decide which country to visit, what the hell difference does it make if the scenery is beautiful, and the people are kind hospitable, if there is even a remote chance of you being kidnapped. Sorry to say, but that is what it boils down to.

Isn't the risk of harm, as small as it may be, but nonetheless present, more influential in making a decision to travel or not to travel to a locale than the pleasures you get from the travel experience. What you have to understand is that Colombia is not the only place to travel to. And given the fact that there are safer places to go, most people are going to choose safey as their number one priority.

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YEP says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:13:

Ahh you didn't have the lecture on how to finance a newspaper
or magazine yet. ??

Nah .... I was just thinking about the paparatzi media in the UK resorting to the lowest denominator to sell their papers.

And basicly any media use that "method" in each their "genre" ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:20:

fzrdan Of course you agree, because you are using a different set of variables to decide where to travel. You told me so directly. You are not choosing to travel to Colombia because you have any factual basis to conclude that Colombia is anything short of a country that relatively speaking (compared to other Latin American countries) a country at civil war riddled with dangers that we all know of. You are choosing to travel to Colombia because you acknowledge the situation as it is, and you have decided to go there IN SPITE of all the scholarly publications and media attention that tells you to be carefull about going there.

In other words, you are going there even if everyone tells you not to go. Good grief, you told me this directly.....Did you not?

You said that "some people go there just because everyone keeps telling people not to go there." That line of thinking my friend only says you are going because you want to go. That does NOT mean that the country is not filled with inherent danger. Don't confuse the two concepts.......And please don't forget the lovely lady incentive that lures you there as well.

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:21:

Yep I'm more focused on direction and production of film, so no haven't had and won't have that lecture :P Phew!
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:51:

gomezman, I will say again, I am talking about the drugs here. Not safety. You and others may be talking about safety, I am not. I gave up debating safety with you and some others. People make generalizations about the part drugs play in the daily lives of all Colombians. People do it and it is silly. Many people really believe that there a million little Pablo Escobar's (spelling) running around in Colombia. Why am I wasting my typing, I don't know crap about Colombia anyway.

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 13:53:

Gomezman,My problem is no Gomezman,

My problem is not with whether or not people should travel to Colombia, it is with these anti-colombian comments that people make!

Tinto says that he "gets a chuckle" when he sees terms like "bigotry or racism" on this site. Well, if anyone were to make a comment such as "Jews are cheap bloodsuckers" or "blacks are thieves", they would immediately be branded as 'bigots' or 'racists', wouldn't they? Therefore I don't see why those who make crass comments about all colombians being drug-traffickers should be spared from being labeled as such. After all, with these statements they are making a very offensive and ignorant generalization about an entire nation and its people. There shouldn't be any double-standard when it comes to discrimination against colombians.



ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Lionheart says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:02:

my change of tactics For general talk I stopped telling people I am moving to Colombia, I am bored of listening to their ignorant crap. Now I just say I am moving to Cali and let them assume I mean California, and I am learning Spanish to deal with the Latinos there.

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EROADZ says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:17:

Do I need a BODYGUARD!!!!!!! Originally I started this thread....

I dont believe this, now do I really need security guards?? ( email from work)


I work with firmwide security and am responsible for supporting our travelers to high risk locations overseas.

l noted noted from our travel tracker system that you plan to travel to Bogota on February 11. We consider Bogota to be high risk due to the threat of indigenous terrorism.

In order for us to help determine if you will need any security support, please provide the following information:

What is the purpose of your trip?
What are your transportation arrangements (to/from airport and work locations)?
What are your lodging arrangements?
What client, if any, are you supporting and where exactly will be the work site?

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance!

Regards,

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:18:

GIB 'The example of the person hit in the head was the son of a good friend of mine and it happened a couple months back. The example of the guy shot in the face was about a month ago and was the guy working with my ex.'
Exactly my point, it’s only 0.02% of the population. If we talk about the safety issues, every city in the world has its unsafe areas that you should not venture to!
I lived in Cali till I was 18, and have been in living in Bogotá for the past 4 years and a half, and NOTHING has ever happened to me, I'm as easy as target as it gets (petite girl). But yet I’m not an advocate of "Colombia is not that dangerous!”, but there is something of the way you try to impart knowledge about being cautious that seems very annoying to me. If you really feel your life it’s at such threat here, how come you’re still here? I mean that in the most honestly curious way.

Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:21:

GringoinBogota,Yes, if a GringoinBogota,

Yes, if a colombian makes such ignorant comments about (north) americans, they are bigoted. But guess what? Like Elmo's always reminding us, (north) americans are mostly loved and well-received in Colombia, although the people might not feel the same about the US Government, but that's a different issue. There's a lot more negative comments about colombians by (north)americans than vice-versa.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:27:

I agree with Lauthra, to me GringoinBogota's comments about Colombia always seem to contain a suttle hatred towards her. What the hell are you (GIB) even doing living there if you feel it's such a sinister place? There's many things I don't like about the USA, but you don't see me bad-mouthing this great country all the time on any website, that would make me an ingrate!!

COLOMBIA: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:27:

jajaja to you I didn't say Colombia was safe, as a matter of fact, I said that even though nothing has happened to me, I don't go around shouting that Colombia is safe.
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:36:

Colombiano X I totally agree with you.
He keeps telling stories about terrible things happening to people, and I know stuff like that happens, I'm may be young, but I ain't naive, yet he dare not give the specifics surrounding such preposterous stories, there should be much more than just his side of the story, i.e. someone was doing something stupid.


Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:41:

lauthra,

Qué bueno es ver a otro colombiano/a por acá también defendiendo a nuestra Patria. A veces a uno lo dejan muy solito por acá. La felicito.

Saludes,


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Lionheart says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:47:

we should all know each other well enough now I have a cartoon character of each of you in my head and it makes all much easier to deal with. But no, I won't tell ...

We all know GiB's style in the meantime, but yet all get riled up anew in each thread. I see GiB standing tall in Bogota, dressed and looking like Rambo, caption says "hell yes, Colombia is real dangerous, but real men like me can handle this ... if you aren't like me, stay away!"

GiB, please take it with humor ... you know I appreciate a lot of what you write. I have learned to take ANYTHING what ANYBODY writes with a grain of salt ... but each post is valuable in some way ... sometimes even my own.

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 14:51:

Lo mismo! Colombiano X, siempre hare todo lo que pueda para dejar el nombre de mi patria en alto!
Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:04:

"I have heard you bad mouth the US more than once on here so again thanks much for the laugh!!!! "

When I "bad mouth" the US or any other country, it's out of self-defense, in other words, someone probably threw the first stone and I'm just throwing it back twice as hard!

I don't open topics bashing the US just for the heck of it, in here, or in any other website. If you're referring to the Colombian recruit topic I posted in the other forum, I still would have opened that topic regardless of which country was trying to recruit them.


CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:07:

Ayayayayay GIB, I have more than once agreed with you in the safety issues, I wouldn't know about 'Colombia is no more dangerous than any city in the US or western Europe', I have never done the research. It's just the way you seem so acrid about it all that annoys me. Darn it, it's my english really that bad that in my past posts I didn't get that point across?

Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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goosekirk says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:34:

Lionheart Just make sure my cartoon character is ruggedly handsome but suave, maybe with an ascot, and he's walking around among falling mortars like Robert Duvall in Apocalypse Now, telling people it's safe to surf.

Don't forget the good-looking part.

And Lauthra, it's not that I'm narcissistic, it's simply the most logical explanation. Gomez might call me lucky, GiB might say I'm blind, but that's not it - I'm just too pretty for the bad guys to mess with. It's like the A-team: Peter is Hannibal, GiB is Mr. T, Elmo is Murdoch, and I'm Face. We've all got our roles to fill.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:40:

Fzrdan--drugs????? drugs what???/ I never heard of anyone say that they didn't go to Colombian because of drugs...What the hell does drugs have to do with this conversation. Drugs???? Drugs kill the people who consume them. What kind of twist are you putting on things.

Look, I make it simple. Cali is dangerous for an unescorted Gringo--and you know why. And if you go there because you think it's cool or it your curiosity is tweaked by going to a country that by most creditble accounts has a safety level of well below that of the average country chooses to go to...then go..have fun and that's that. Maybe you want to add Libya, Syria, or Siera Leon to your next list of countries that you can say "I went to and made it back alive." Just keep adding notches to your belt.

But who even mentioned drugs or Pablo Escobar as a reason not to go to Colombia? Why are you even bringing drugs into the picture. For gods sake, even the US embassy doesn't warn against travel to Colombia because of drugs.

Are you on drugs????

Look I know what we talked about. You made your initial decision to go to Colombia, because everyone (every source) said don't go. Don't put another twist on things................

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 15:46:

ColX---- Poor comparison.

Blacks and Jews are a very integral part of American society, and historically through the world, for hundreds (thousands if you believe the bible) have been enslaved and oppressed for no other reason but the fact they are of a particular color and religion. Colombian, were not ever enslaved or gassed and burned to death. Colombians represent a nationality, not an eithnicity, race, or religion.

In this country, and through the developed world, there are laws to protect people race, religion, and ethnicity. There are NO laws that protect peoples rights based on nationality.

Get the point???

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:04:

Lionheart.....your funny So you think that GIB looks like Rambo. And Goosekirk, with his plasic surgery is Don Juan...where do I fit in?

In the meantime, I agree with GIB (as I ussually do). It seems like we repeat this episode every other week.

Remember what I am saying however.....I am just talking about the guy who is in Colombia alone. I am sure GIB agrees with me that the safety level changes if someone is there and being escorted with a native Colombian who resides there. But the impression some of the clowns on here give is like GIB says..."if you are on your bike and you want to ride across town in Bogota....go ahead don't worry"....GIB is right, you would be crazy to tell someone that .

Well, I think GIB has a hell of a lot of commonsense because he lived in Chicago...at least part of his life. And of course, Chicago is known for having people of sound mind and reason and therefore anything that we say should be taken as the gospel.

So EROADZ go aheaed and get your bodyguard,-- no make it two. Make sure they have at least an uzi sub machine gun. You might look for GIB when you get to Bogota, because since he is like Rambo, he can fill in when your your bodyguard detail needs time off.

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:04:

gomezman, you have a short memory. You responded to my original post.
******
Just yesterday I heard two people make ignorant statements about Colombia. One from a friend and the other from a friend of a friend. My friend says 'You are going back to drug land? Don't call me for ransom, I don't have any money.' The other guy says 'You going to date a drug dealer over there?'

Maybe Colombia earned its reputation for drugs and kidnapping, but to make such statements regarding the general population is stupid. How can an intelligent person think the general population are a bunch of drug dealers and kidnappers?
********

All I was ever talking about is drugs (despite the kidnapping comment). You started talking about the safety. There is more to Colombias bad reputation than violence. The other part is drugs. Do you dispute that?

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:11:

fzrdan.... You just keep ignoring what you told me. You know Colombia is dangerous, but you are going anyway. Why can't you just admit to it??

I say that's fine. But don't be telling other people to go because all is well. It just defies logic. I mean what's goes here. If you want to go because you have this incredible appetite to go to a place in spite of its danger level--than go. But man don't be telling people that the level of danger is exagerated---It's not. You can talk yourself into anything, no matter how logical or illogical it may sound

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kernow62 says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:38:

GIB, I have a question for you. In which post did you see me or someone else say it was OK to ride a bike wearing a suit from north Bogotá to El Centro. I scoured the posts and I could only find you talking about it. I simply commented that people riding bikes in suits is not an unusual sight, I was not talking about Bogotá when I made that comment. However you started ranting about it. Please re-read the posts and point out who made the comment about wearing a suit to ride a bike in Bogotá. Personally I would have no problem riding a bike in the north of Bogotá (suitably atired of course) if there were lots of other riders too, I would be concerned about being a lone biker. In fact on my next visit I plan to do some extensive riding in Bogotá if you don't hear from me upon my return that will be my way of saying you were correct.Besides if someone wants my crappy bike they can have it, I will wear a helmet though in case of rock, bottle and club wielding thieves. ;-) Now I have chatted via the Internet with folks who ride bikes and hitchhike through Colombia and have lived and enjoyed themselves. I am not saying that this is remotely a good idea and you couldn't pay me enough to do so. Check this bold traveler out.

http://www.travelblog.org/South-America/Colombia/blog-2219.html

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caslug says on Feb 4, 2005, 16:54:

GIB/GOMEZ always post very strongly worded comments... but i dont think they are overblown. I laugh when i hear some young fun loving foreigner go to COL have a blast for 1 week or couple of months then come back and post that COL is no more dangerous than our home country. Which is typically a first world country.

I was having dinner with a friend and i told her that for foreigners there a certain magic of having been to colombia, enjoying what she offer and not having any problems. Part of the magic is living a little dangerously, your stress is up but so is your enjoyment, like riding a roller coaster. BUT after hearing IN PERSON from several american i met in COL, the type of precaution many foreigner use to live day to day safely, i understood that they live in a constant state of caution with and eye over your shoulder. Getting into a taxi at night in BOG or CALI after a night a casino or club by yourself gets your adrenlien up a bit because you are on guard.

Also, there is different type of danger for different type of foreinger. A younger, backpacking foreign student in COL has less to worry about than a older, professional foreigner, with a little money, and a family. I always believed in statistic, just because you had a run of good luck and done dangerous things and gotten away scotted free, doesnt mean it is good idea to continue doing those dangerous things.

personally, when i was in COL in some dodgy area, i dress down and tried to look like i was a poor tourist, i constantly made sure where i was in relation to things and people, and walked with a purpose. And finally i minimize my time in those areas. One of the scarier moment is catching taxi from chichape back to the hotel in avidena sexta at 3 or 4 AM in morning. For some unkown reason Hollywood Casino doesnt have a taxi stand outside. So if you have winnings you have to walk to the street to hail a cab.

To all those people who think GIB/GOMEZ are scaremonger, why not just ingnore their post rather than try to rebuttal them. What is the upside of downplaying danger to a traveller. I rather be overwarn than under.

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 17:17:

You are in rare form today gomezman. I am not disputing the dangers. My only reason for posting on this thread was to tell folks about the idiotic comments I heard yesterday that were about DRUGS. Sure, they may have been joking but there was an element of belief (they believed themselves) to what they said.

I don't dispute the dangers. I have told you in private communications that I didn't do certain things in Cali because I was nervous about it and unsure if it was safe. I don't know why you are on my case so much today. Just accept that I am talking about drugs in this thread. This thread wasn't opened specifically about safety. It was opened about Colombia's bad reputation. You didn't dispute that the drug issue is a part of Colombia's bad rep.

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ColombianoX says on Feb 4, 2005, 17:42:

"Colombian, were not ever enslaved or gassed and burned to death."

Gomezman,

No, we've never been enslaved or burned to death, but we have been living a NIGHTMARE (which some have even called our own "holocaust") for the past fifty years, part of which has been fueled by the rest of the world's insatiable appetite for illegal drugs. Yet, the rest of the world in their ignorance points their fingers at us and makes crude comments about our country and our people (which most of them know almost nothing about), not realizing that it's partly THEIR vices that have brought so much MISERY and SUFFERING to Colombia.

------------------------------------------------------------------


Blacks and Jews.....have been enslaved and oppressed for no other reason but the fact they are of a particular color and religion
"Colombians represent a nationality, not an eithnicity, race, or religion."

"In this country, and through the developed world, there are laws to protect people race, religion, and ethnicity. There are NO laws that protect peoples rights based on nationality."

"Get the point???"


I think you're the one who doesn't get the point. Just what are you saying? That because we're not solely a "race", "religion", or "ethnicity", then offensive comments about colombians are somehow less reprehensible than similar hateful comments about other communities (i.e. blacks, Jews, italians, etc.)? Are you sure you're colombian?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

"Blacks and Jews are a very integral part of American society"

Well, colombians are hispanic, and right now we hispanics are the LARGEST minority in the US, so I would say that in a way we are also a "very integral part of american society"! ¿Verdad?


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 17:48:

fzrdan I don't know what thread your read, but this thread had absolutely nothing to do wiht drugss. The guy started the thread by talking about Colombia and her reputation. He specifically mentioned how he felt safe while traveling in the US or Europe, so why are you even talking about drugs? This guy did not even mention the word drugs in his opening comment. Or did he? This thread has to do with this guy's feeling safe if he travels to Colombia. So...what can I say.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:41:

ColX Where did you get educated? Honestly I am curious. To compare Colombia's problems and in any way suggest that they are comperable to the Holocaust shows, that you clearly lack any real knowedge as to what the holocaust was. You will not be able to find one scholarly publication or individual within academia that would even remotely susggest that they are comperable. That comment is more about as bizare as the one you made when you told me that the US was not responsible for ending both world wars. Colx, history clearly is not your forte'

You are correct at one thing. To be Colombian is not a race, religion, or ethnicity, it is nationality. And as I already told you, laws against bigotry and race and ethnicity.....are not designed to protect a nationality. Once again, find me a situation anywhere in this world, (except where there are facists states) where a law was created to bar dergoatory comments against any one particular nationality.. You will not find any.

And I am sorry if you can't read correctly, but I have never seen any publicatin that indicts Colombians as a people...never. Now if you want to equate attacking the desperate politcal state of Colombia, with its ongoing civil war, with it murederous terrorist i-d-p's of the FARC, killing innocent people, with indicting the entire Colombian population, you have made a leap that nobody on this board with any commonsense would agree with. These people are some of the most horrible people in the world,and nobody here is suggesting that these people represent all of Colombia.

Lastly, you were talking about hispanics in Colombia, not hispanics here. Please don't distort what I have said. And you are the last person to identify yourself as part of the larger hispanic community here, because, you have not exactly embraced the Mexican American communtiy, which by the way has much more influence in this country than all of South and Central America put together will ever have

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:48:

ColX You are back to your standard rhetoric. It kills you when a Colombian says something derogatory about Colombia. So the first thing you do, is question if I am Colombian. Maybe you feel I should be stripped of my Colombian heritage if I can't speak of Colombia as you see fit.

Your funny....Take care friend

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kernow62 says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:50:

Hugs fzrdan & Gomezman. ja ja ja

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 4, 2005, 18:57:

Kernow..... You are right....it's time to move on...good suggestion.

Thanks. I think it's time to close out this thread and move it to oblivion for everyone's sake

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Lauthra says on Feb 4, 2005, 22:38:

1 question though... 'To compare Colombia's problems and in any way suggest that they are comperable to the Holocaust...'
(Bites her tongue)... I have to agree...With you Gomezman, but does anyone know how many people have died in the past 50 years or so of conflict in Colombia? I can't even begin to imagine a figure, but if I remember correctly, (which I prolly don't) WWII had about 60'000.000 casualties? Just would like to compare those two figures.

Nato ;)

Nato (='.'=)

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fzrdan says on Feb 4, 2005, 22:51:

Gman, he never mentioned drugs and ne never specifically mentioned safety. He said he was hesitant. What does that mean? Please don't tell me what he meant. Only he can tell us what he meant. If it was nothing to do with drugs, fine. Wouldn't be the first time someone posted something that had nothing to do with the topic. I think everyone is guilty. And, if I never mentioned anything about the safety, why are you on my case? I never said it was safe. I never said everyone should go with their wallet taped to their forehead. I never mentioned anything good or bad about the violence. I agreed with CX on something he posted but I never posted sh!t about safety. You must be using some comments I made at a different time. That's OK though.

Kernow, you got me. Haha...group hug please. Next thread.

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Caleñita4eva says on Feb 5, 2005, 19:35:

Colombia is a great country... Colombia is a great country full of wonderful people.. the best coffee in the world comes from Colombia, we have such wonderful things in Colombia,but most people talk bad about Colombia, he va such a bad reputation because like colombianox said people just focus on the bad things about Colombia like the war that's going on back there..but hey it's not that bad! When I talk to people that are actually living there, they said that they dont see wierd things happening overthere..it's just a regular country but we do have some problems with the guerrila, but we dont see the guerrilla wlaking on the streets no peopleee!

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juanalejo says on Feb 5, 2005, 20:35:

I agree with Caslug I gave up posting here for a few days as reading the same **** all the time was getting me tired. There is no justification for having to stand on one hand the bashing against the country done by people who do not live here and who seem to try and justify their self exile by hammering on to the country´s reputation, and on the other hand a few gringos who live here and whose personal problems seems to get sorted by making up any story that would destroy the countries reputation. Nobody here is denying the countries reputation, but one thing is the civil conflict and another is regular street crime, the first one does not affect most of the population and in the second one we score much better than most countries in the area. Obviously those who critize the country do not know that, because they hardly ever leave the bubbles they live in and see the world through a different non-colombian obsesed way.

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juanalejo says on Feb 5, 2005, 20:44:

Obsession I just have a suggestion, for those of you who live abroad, please try to enjoy your countries, they can not be that bad that you only passtime is sitting in front of the computer day and night bashing against Colombia. Certainly Colombia has you obsessed, there has to be a problem there, or maybe look for some help so you can let go and enjoy your new life. For those of you living here and not enjoying it, give it another try, there are lots of things happening out there the city is happening right now, leave the obsession with Colombia and get out tonite. The streets are full. For me dinner was fantastic in the G zone, now off to parque Jaime Duque as Dick Van Dyk is waiting for me to dance until the sun comes up.

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Gustvoc says on Feb 7, 2005, 16:18:

Americans need something to blame Hi Im Colombian I used to live on the United States (Florida) and I saw all kind of people good and bad, even poverty, but I remember that everybody blame the drug problem to Colombia even the ones that consume the drug, no is not their problem just send guns to the Colombian army and dollars to fight the war, the war on terrorism is an example, the United States solve the problems outside. For example I remember the terrible joke of Letterman about our Miss Colombia, Americans dont know nothing about our country the media is the one to blame.


A young American journalist wants to win a prize, easy just do an article about Colombia drug war and talk on the news, doesn´t matter if you place the picture of our "Pibe Valderrama" or "Higuita" as terrorists who cares, (CBS didn´t).

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 7, 2005, 16:21:

Nato "but there is something of the way you try to impart knowledge about being cautious that seems very annoying to me. If you really feel your life it’s at such threat here, how come you’re still here? I mean that in the most honestly curious way".Nato
you took the world right out of my mouth
well done ;)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 7, 2005, 16:45:

There’s an old saying about Colombia,

“When God was creating the world, He put gold into South Africa, some was left over, so He threw it into Colombia.

"He put coal into Appalachia, but there was some left over, so He threw it into Colombia.

"Then God distributed minerals like Iron and Nickel, again there were some left over, so He threw them into Colombia.

"Brazil received tropical fruits and Emeralds, there were some of these left over too, so He threw them into Colombia.

"The Middle East got a pot full of oil; the remainder God poured into Colombia.

"Flowers went into the South Pacific islands, there were some of these left over as well, so He threw them into Colombia."

"Wait a minute," a watching angel said to God. "Do you realize that you’re making Colombia one of the most powerful nations on earth?"

"Yes," God replied, "but don’t worry, I haven’t given them their politics yet."

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