Colombia: A culture of violence?

morphus says on Jun 27, 2008, 04:26:

Thats why Colombians seem so friendly and polite. They don't want to be victims of violence. If Colombians were to behave like Europeans, there would be more violence. Europeans are very rude with each other. The only difference is they are not as violent. You can go to France or Netherlands and spit in someone's face and nothing will happen. In Colombia, you would be DEAD in less than 60 seconds.

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Albatross says on Jun 27, 2008, 04:48:

What has made Colombia "different" is not the violence, per se, but the organized violence... FARC, ELN, ect. There are plenty of countries in the Americas that are just as easy to get robbed or killed in, but none of them had such a notorious guerilla presence like Colombia, and no other country had so many people held captive in the jungle as Colombia became famous for.

"Europeans are very rude with each other."... sorry but I lived for years in Europe and never noticed... there were times when people were not especially friendly, but I don't remember anyone ever being rude... not counting all the hotties who blew me off. There is one notable incident in Bosnia I happen to remember where some younger guy was ready to beat the crap out of an older guy who cut him off in traffic, but stopped just short of physical violence. (Come to think of it, I did get my nose broken in Prague by some dumb Czech... I never did figure out why)

But I think if you spit in someones face in Europe, something would definitely happen.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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mimimimimi says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:02:

Europeans are serious, they like to be left alone but no one would kill you for silly reasons just see the murder rates .. now eastern europeans and russians they are rude ,really angry! and for sure anyone would get killed for spiting on a serbian hahaha those people are insane

and in netherlands well..people goes around way to high on cannabis to do any harm they are more like hippies ahhahaha

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:34:

At one point I heavily considered this. However, it may be part of the explanation, I don't believe it's the most important. The problem is that the violent minority has been institutionalized to power structures (both legal and illegal). These dominant forces then drive society toward instability, and worse through violence. Think of the metaphor 'perro come perro' and you get the perpetuation of violence in Colombia.
But from personal experience I would suggest that it is only a MINORITY that is violent, sadly it is a very powerful minority.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:35:

Albatross but this study reveals that organized violence is only directly responsible for 10% of murders. What is going on? Is Colombia a nation of wifebeaters? I do not know. I know this tends to be a serious problem in Central America, it makes it on the news almost every day... but these stats show that Colombia is no less of a wife-beating nation that say Nicaragua... I think the problem is I do not believe Colombians are violent towards family/friends etc. because of the conflict (although it sounds like a good excuse to justify domestic violence)...but that would only leave me with the alternative, Colombia's conflict is a result of idiosyncratic violence and I don't think that's true either.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:52:

GUYS PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
when we talk about vioelence please don't say colombia, anyone who knows anything about colombia knows that violence is mosty in the interior is NOT ALL COLOMBIA.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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mimimimimi says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:54:

hahahah goddamn you are so regionalist modefoque typical costenno echandoselas a los cachacos..

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 05:58:

pero no es la verdad, si o no?
en serio

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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mimimimimi says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:04:

dont know everyone got its temper think cachacos are far more serious you guys are just happy ...

lets say calennos are more violent and we got it neutral that way hahaha

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:11:

there you go mimimimi.
costenos are happy people, look at my sorry ass......
oh chit, i gotta run down, is time for my walk choaooa

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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durito says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:24:

"Europeans are serious, they like to be left alone but no one would kill you for silly reasons just see the murder rates ."

sure no one's ever murdered in europe for "silly reasons"

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:46:

Colombia is a violent society, it has become part of the national phsyche, that is why violence is very near the top of options when a colombian reacts to something. That is just the sad, simple truth.

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tasco66 says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:52:

“sure no one's ever murdered in europe for "silly reasons"

Yep, just look at European history, just peace and respect for each other…a model for the world to follow...

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:53:

VIOLENCE IN COLOMBIA
COLOMBIA COLOMBIA COLOMBIA
IS NOT ALL COLOMBIA
IS NOT ALL COLOMBIA
IS NOT ALL COLOMBIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:53:

IS NOT ALL COLOMBIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:54:

IS THOSE FOKIN CACHACOS!!!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:55:

EXCEPT WEB, HE'S A NICE CACHACO

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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webmanco says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:56:

I heard you Elmo el most violent

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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tasco66 says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:57:

If you compare the Colombian murder rate with some neighbouring countries, Colombia does not look so bad:

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/which-country-has-a-higher-crime...

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:02:

you know what, you guys in the interior keep the name, COLOMBIA
Partido Costeno Contra La Violencia Cachaca (PCCLVC) has decided to name the entire caribbean coast of colombia
La Republica de Barranquilla
We are fokin tired of getting dragged thru the muck cus of you guys!!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:06:

jaja Elmo, maybe your new party can get La Rep Dominicana to annex B'quilla and take it off our hands, that should knock Colombia's poverty ranking down a notch.

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:07:

violence isn't just murders... la costa is overrun with paras 'keeping the order'

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:10:

poverty, poverty, cachacos invented that word

you wanna see pics

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:11:

don't need pics, I've been to that sewer known as Baq ;) Gotta go to work now so i don't join the ranks of the poor.

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:13:

i been the dangerous sewer known as bogota, the birth place of gamines, violence and despair and burundanga and injuns

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:13:

and kiddnaping and bombs and farc

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:14:

and robberies and injuns

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:14:

LA VIOLENCIA 1950'S TO 1970'S

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:16:

AFTER LA VIOLENCIA CAME MAY 17 AND THEN FARC

did i looked all this up in the internet, nope i lived it
yes i'm that old

thank you!

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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Albatross says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:17:

Havin' fun, Elmo ?

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:19:

jjijijijijjij yes jajajaj
us in
Partido Costeno Contra La Violencia Cachaca (PCCLVC)
have decided to built a gringo type walls around our borders (la republica de barranquilla ) to keep our violent ex compatriotas out!!

thank you

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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Plato says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:28:

I’m going to play Henry Kissinger on this:

I would say Colombians are not easy pushovers, meaning that they’ll take issue if necessary. In some instances, their actions may be over the top; in others, it may be called for, but I wouldn’t say Colombians are violent per se. I’m sure other South Americans are the same way, so why not say all South Americans are violent?

That violence has been a historical theme in Colombia, especially in the interior- yes! We just have to look back at the time of La Violencia (circa 1948-1953?), drug cartels in the 1980s and early 90s, and more recently the problem with guerillas and paramilitaries. Violence is in the Colombian pathos because of this experience and perhaps this makes Colombians less patient in taking shit from others on a personal level, but not any more than other South Americans, or other people, who experience similar historical themes.


Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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tasco66 says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:32:

"jaja Elmo, maybe your new party can get La Rep Dominicana to annex B'quilla and take it off our hands"

They should join the socialist paradise island up north

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:32:

plato, you're good,
you should work for the united nations
those few words have realy calmed me down
thanks! cus i was about to let my cachacos brothers have it with both barrels pictures and all

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:36:

I'm sure I've posted the following before...
Is there a Culture of Violence in Colombia?
International Journal of Conflict and Violence
(http://www.ijcv.org/docs/2007/waldmann.pdf)


CK you've read it right? it seems right up your alley...

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elmodefoque says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:43:

hey modefoque, what were costenos doing during LA VIOLENCIA?
THIS, ALEJO DURAN WAS THE MAN BACK THEN

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 08:19:

that's very Che Guevara Rubito...

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 11:09:

"did i looked all this up in the internet, nope i lived it
yes i'm that old"

jjajaja, you might have lived it, but it was from your Manhattan penthouse.

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 11:26:

Rubito, that's not true... ULTIMATELY he believed in complete freedom, however this could only be obtained through violence

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Albatross says on Jun 27, 2008, 11:33:

Equating freedom with violence is tenuous. True, sometimes freedom must be paid with blood. But most violence has absolutely nothing to do with freedom. Most revolutions have started with violence in an effort to secure freedom, but ended with violence for the sake of violence. The Colombian "Revolution" is no different, perhaps FARC did have freedom in mind in the beginning, but eventually it became just violence... nada mas.

El Che never advocated violence, though he knew it was sometimes necessary.

In the same way, Malcolm X knew... "(Freedom)... by any means necessary"

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 27, 2008, 12:17:

I don't know if this kind of violence has always been around or if it was "imported" from British/European futbol leagues. Whatever the case, it's senseless and shameful.
.
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Colombia's Deportivo Cali to play without fans after violence

BOGOTA, Colombia — Deportivo Cali must play two games without spectators, the Colombian Football Federation ruled Thursday, the club's penalty for allowing fans to invade the field last week.

Enraged by a 2-0 loss to Deportes Quindio in the fourth round of the Apertura playoffs, fans attempted to attack their own goalkeeper, Oscar Cordoba, a former member of the Colombian national team. After the attack, Cordoba announced he would leave the team.

Soccer violence by fans has resulted in about a half dozen deaths this year.

Cali, which is home to the teams Deportivo Cali and America de Cali, has been a particular red zone for violence.

In March, a riot injured 83 people, including six police. What was surprising about the confrontation - that involved homemade explosives and knives - was that it was all within fans of the same team, America de Cali.

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romy says on Jun 27, 2008, 12:25:

"Colombia's Deportivo Cali to play without fans after violence" yeah but what's going on there? ...it's the way of 'los duros' in Cali to speak out against the team. Very liitle to do with the people that stepped on the field.

I don't believe in "by any means necessary"... though how is freedom going to be obtained? is the zillion dollar question

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 27, 2008, 13:03:

Did anybody see me exiting the stadium (Pascual Guerrero) after starting the disturbances there?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 13:17:

Desi tira la piedra y esconde la mano ;)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 27, 2008, 13:20:

This is a very interesting thread and I have been trying to understand this phenomenon of violence, so ingrained the Colombian culture , so pervasive and permeating and yet so difficult to understand.

I believe it is firmly rooted in the history of the country, from the very first days of the conquista, colonization, the time of independence; there has never been any longer period of peace and concensus in Colombia. That's the institutionalized violence that may not contribute more than those 10% mentioned in the study, but it legitimates the use of violence in all echelons of society for whichever purpose.

That coupled up with one of the most unequal class societies and the typical short-term expectancy of the Latin soul demanding immediate action and immediate retribution, lack of physical distance between people, passionate and short-tempered nature of many Colombian/Latin people creates a society where violence is understood, legitimated, perpetuated and at the end of the day, even glorified.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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billyb says on Jun 27, 2008, 13:25:

I agree, Desi.

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huskie says on Jun 27, 2008, 16:50:

Chronic hunger - the extreme lack of income, health, education, nutrition and voice in society that affects one billion people on our planet - is overwhelmingly a condition of women.

-Women account for nearly 70 percent of the world's illiterate.

-Three-fourths of the refugees in the world are women.
Some 585,000 women - one every minute - dies each year from pregnancy-related causes.

-Women account for 70-80 percent of household food production in Africa, 65 percent in Asia and 45 percent in Latin America. This achieve this in spite of unequal access to land, to inputs such as improved seeds and fertilizer and to information.

-Only 7 percent of Africa's agricultural extension services are devoted to women farmers.

-Sub-Saharan Africa suffers one of the lowest primary school enrollment rates in the world. Even worse for girls: nearly 54 percent will never enter primary school, and of those who do, fewer than half will reach fifth grade.

-For every year beyond fourth grade that girls go to school, family size shrinks 20 percent, child deaths drop 10 percent and wages rise 20 percent.

-Battering at home is the most universal form of violence against women. In the U.S., only one in 100 battered women ever report the abuse.

-One in five adult women in the U.S. has been raped.

-If women's unpaid work were properly valued, it is possible that women would emerge as the major breadwinners - or at least equal breadwinners - since they put in longer hours than most men.


Website: http://www.criaw-icref.ca/

This must mean something:

-In Canada(one of the developed nations in the world), four out of five people murdered by their spouses are women murdered by men. In 1998, 67 women were killed by a current or ex-spouse, boyfriend or ex-boyfriend. That’s one to two women per week. In 6 out of 10 spousal murders, police were already aware that violence characterized the relationship.

-Over a quarter (29%) of Canadian women have been assaulted by a spouse.

-Forty-five percent of women assaulted by a male partner suffered physical injury. Injuries included bruising, cuts, scratches, burns, broken bones, fractures, internal injuries and miscarriages.

-Girl children are targets of abuse within the family more so than are boys. Four out of five victims of family-related sexual assaults (79%) are girls, and over half (55%) of physical assaults of children by family members are against girls.

-In 1997, fathers accounted for 97% of sexual assaults and 71% of physical assaults of children by parents.

-Only 10% of sexual assaults on women are reported to the police.Extrapolating from these data, there are 509,860 reported and unreported sexual assaults in Canada per year. That’s 1,397 per day; which means that every minute of every day, a woman or child in Canada is being sexually assaulted. Very often, sexual assaults are repeated on the same woman or child by the same offender.

-98% of sex offenders are men and 82% of the survivors of these assaults are girls and women.

So violence is not just Colombia, violence is bad every where you look. Why keep using Colombia as a bad sample? Does world history shows that countries have never been violent?
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 28, 2008, 03:18:

"So violence is not just Colombia, violence is bad every where you look. Why keep using Colombia as a bad sample? Does world history shows that countries have never been violent?
Cheers" (huskie)

Perhaps because this forum is about Colombia. Lots of us have been touched by this violence in some way in our lives. I'm not an exception; I chose to raise up my family somewere else and perhaps the biggest reason was my fears that something could happen to my precious family there.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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mimimimimi says on Jun 28, 2008, 04:41:

Durito : this is what I call a silly reason to be murdered... remember the guy that was stabbed to death in the north main transmilenio station just because he told a guy please do not pee inside the station...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pjmsmdjcLfo&feature=related

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webmanco says on Jun 28, 2008, 06:02:

Nadie se muere a la vispera

Ignorance and lack of tolerance are two of the mayor causes of violence


http://enalgunlugardecaracas.blogspot.com/2007/07/la-vspera-del-da-ele...

La muerte es una vida vivida. La vida es una muerte que viene.
Jorge Luis Borges
La muerte es algo que no debemos temer porque, mientras somos, la muerte no es y cuando la muerte es, nosotros no somos.
Antonio Machado




Cuando en unos días cumpla los sesenta, habré cumplido también con el lapso que me había planteado desde hace algún tiempo. Ya, a esta altura, puedo asegurarles que no me sorprende nada. He visto mares subir, treparse, en cuerpos inertes sentado muy lejos de cualquier costa. Los he visto en tus sueños llenos de temor y tú sentada en mí. Ya todo está escrito y no hay nada que decir. Sólo el silencio me complace, pero el rotundo, el enérgico, el que te da escalofríos cuando lo notas. La muerte ha coqueteado mil veces conmigo en la mar y no ha podido resistir mi eternidad. Todo lo viví.




Puedo decir que estoy satisfecho por mi andar pausado, pero lo que me llena es saber que desde siempre tuve razón. Nunca me equivoqué. Cosas de ego propio, del cual me siento orgulloso, maravillosamente complacido por poseerlo y que me posea, porque a lo largo de los tiempos nunca nadie fue tan grande y lo digo con todo el temor que se contempla frente a la magnanimidad. No me equivoqué cuando puse el plazo. Cualquiera podía entrar en mis pensamientos y salir atormentado, porque no todos han estado reparados. Bienvenidos a esta esquina mundana que tanto escozor produce en los bárbaros. Adelante, sé valiente y soporta. Testigo seré de todo y de nada.




A la víspera del día elegido, soporté con habilidad cualquier penumbra. El candil de las luces infinitas fue sorteado sin compasión y es ahora cuando, una vez más, me dispongo a tomar ventaja de todo, a dar un paso adelante sin tornar cuello, porque la hora la he puesto cuando he querido hacerlo. No me despido porque resultaría imposible borrar la historia que a diario estará latente cuando nada exista más. Sólo pienso en el deber cumplido. Enhorabuena, humanidad, se aleja el que le dio sentido a todo, tu benefactor inmediato y sacrificado. Recuerda todo lo escrito hasta hoy y no pongas esperanza alguna en el después. Todo lo construido termina irremediablemente esta tarde.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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