christians (non-catholic) in colombia

utopiacowboy says on Aug 3, 2005, 17:09:

I would have to say that this is true - which is why I think they blew it by not selecting a Latin-American pope. One of my wife's sisters has gone over to the "dark" side and no one is happy about it, believe me.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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2retirensa says on Aug 3, 2005, 17:43:

In Cali My Novio has a very good friend who is a Christian. When I asked him if Christians were well accepted in what is suppose to be a predominately Catholic country, he looked at me like I had 2 heads, and said "of course".
I understand they have quite a large congregation and are very active in the community; they appeared to be well received. We were invited to go to his church, but time was not available (at least for me). I would have gone, but I'm not sure if my novio would have. I'm not sure if Catholic Colombians will visit churches of other religions. Anyone know?
And what is this?
"which segment of society do non-catholic christians would you say draws the most converts? the (mostly white) upper-class, (mostly mestizo) middle class, or the mostly (mostly dark-skineed) working and poverty class?"
There are plenty of white Colombians who are middle class, working class, and poor.
Maureen

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kernow62 says on Aug 3, 2005, 17:48:

Well said Maureen. That was my experience too at least in Bogotá.

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adrimm says on Aug 3, 2005, 17:56:

Agreed UTC & Maureen I don;t think that most Colombian Catholics take too much issue over it (yes the family will talk, especially the older women who will cluck, but families talk about *everything*), and as long as you still celebrate easter and christmas meals people won't bat an eye.

Who are the converts...(skin colours don't nec indicate socio-econ status) hmm well I know a very wealthy convert family, and I also know a couple of lower/middle class convert familes. The most poor, are often in rural towns and villages and may be bypassed in favour of larger towns and smaller cities, where "mission" work can gather more people (and the Parish priest has less influence). So my best guess is that converts are mostly urbanites - since they are the easiest to be "recruited".

However amongst those who are the poorest converts I wonder if they really even know the bounds of Catholic Christianty, and just regard their "new" Church as a new version of the old one. It's fascinating really.

I have no problems with there being lots of denominations and faiths around (the more the merrier), but no pushing please.

It also riles me to no end that people of non-catholic christian denominations elsewhere pour money into "missions" to help bring "Christian" word to largely Catholic Latin America. Last time I checked, Catholics were a Christian denomination, and Latin American Catholics seem to have higher proportions of observant folk North American Catholics.

So it's not as if one is converting non-Christians or something.

One of my Colombian uncles is some kind of born-again-christian (complete with the devout "praise the lawd", bible-thumping enthusiasm), and with Colombians like him around I just don't see the need to pay for foreigners to go down there (or for that matter anywhere else in the world) on "missions". Especially to a place that has more Christians already than their home turf.

.

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adrimm says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:01:

Yep Of course they (Colombians Catholics) attend services of the other denominations.. how do you think they get begin conversion in the first place?! Everyone on my mother's side has gone to church a few times with my non-Catholic uncle and his family, as well as a Bahai service that one my cousins converted to.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:12:

Nobody in my wife's family would ever go to a non-Catholic service. Except for her youngest sister who fell prey to an evangelical group. They're praying for her return to the flock but it doesn't look good. They may need to call in that priest for another exorcism.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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dagui says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:46:

very familiar I'm very familiar with this situation as my wife and I got married catholic in bogota soon after her going to the "church of christ."left me puzzled.Well one thing I think was good, and that was soon after her joing there was galant try for me to join and a somewhat sobering "revelation" of the WRONGNESS of the catholic church and that TO be SAVED it would be necessary for me to get baptized again! well having gone to catholic school and having a saint of an aunt who was a nun for me to give up which has been a big part of my life made me investigate the catholic church.So who's right..one must look into there beliefs and make that decision.yes other religions are happening in colombia but the cathoic religion is ingrained in many ways. the mormons have built a BEAUTIFUL church in bogota.and theres that take down to the rivers of babilon as my nephew sings goin on.Some folks are turning to "truer truths",but mostly in the common more searching for better life people.But man i've become a apologetic wanna be...arguing with la familia about the bible says this or what have you.it could be a positive thing for colombia.but catholic colombia is so very rich in culture, kindness, manners.

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2retirensa says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:53:

adrimm There is no "of course they attend services of other denominations". Catholics are suppose to get permission from their priest to attend services of another denomination and then we have some kind of restrictions (something obvious like no communion). I don't get permission, but I'm going to heaven, either (one benefit of being Catholic I hopefully only go half way down-- to purgatory-- instead of all the way down to *ell). I'm not sure anyone pays to much attention to that rule here in US, just curious if Colombians freely go to other churches.
On another note: When we announced our marriage plans, I do remember one of the first questions everyone asked me was what religion I was, and then everyone nodding with great approval when I said Catholic. (They never asked how GOOD of a Catholic I was, however.)
Maureen

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adrimm says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:59:

Well *some* of them must go... You've got to know what you are getting into if you are considering a change.

This is the first I have heard of such a rule, and I went to a (North American) Catholic school..... We had non-catholics kids too tho, so maybe they didn't want to offend them?

My relatives who have gone include those who would never dream of converting..... Perhaps in my family's case, family wins out over religion?

I'm like you, by Catholic standards, I'm not a good Catholic... but then the only reason I can call myself Catholic is that I have a piece of paper that says so ;)

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2retirensa says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:13:

Catholic schools are for anyone who can pay, with catholic families of the parish getting first preference, then any catholic, then any one else there is room for. The economic state of Catholic schools here (in St. Louis) is very poor, some are closing for lack of students (in less affluent areas).
No one in my family would go to any non-Catholic church. Some of it I think is an age factor and how "devout" they are. I'm a little older and my Catholic friends my age are more strict than my younger friends (who go where ever they want and don't think twice about it). I think people are more open minded than years back.
Maureen

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adrimm says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:18:

Too true Same can be said hereabouts as well. So much a generational thing.

(LOL, I actually ended up leaving Catholic school becuase the public schools were better in my area).

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2retirensa says on Aug 3, 2005, 19:25:

Generational thing- that is what I was trying to say!! That is why I said I'm not sure my novio would go to his friends Christian Church. I'm very open minded and non judgemental about almost everything. He is a little more tradtional, though tolerates just about anything when he's with me.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:08:

No different from here Here in NYC the Penetcostal and other Evangelical churches have long been poaching other Christian congregations, and then bragging about how many 'converts' they are getting. Soon they are going to run out of Catholics, Lutherans, and Episcopalians and bust big time!
BTW In Rio they have a HUGE Pentecostal congregation that is in a big open-air mall on the second floor. Right around the corner is one of Rio's most notorious termas. I found the huge contrast of all the long-skirted women and men in cheap suits right next to the touristy gringos and flashy 'garotas de programa' very amusing. I actually expected the Pentecostals to be giving everybody at the brothel dirty looks, but they pretty much just ignored them.

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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:15:

Huge Christian communities and growing by the minute. On sundays they sometimes rent out the stadium to offer gigantic services. You'll find lot's of different churches... some of them are a bit of a scam... getting a lot of money out of the devotees, but other are pretty serious institutions.

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Miguel says on Aug 4, 2005, 00:25:

My experience Two weeks ago I attended a Christian church service in Barranquilla with my girlfriend and her mother on a Saturday night. The place was packed, and the service reminded me of a southern revival, complete with an animated preacher and a 10 piece band playing hymns with a salsa flavor.

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kikiortiz11 says on Aug 4, 2005, 00:41:

I dont know. I just cant stand their practices. Its like protestants are in a whole another world. I attend a protestant Christian University in Florida. USA and I cant take it anymore!! And by the way statistics have it that Catholicism is the fastest and only growing christian religion in the world. as of last year. Islam the fastest growing religion and all those protestant churches showed going down.

Kiki Ortiz-Matallana

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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 4, 2005, 06:59:

Not in colombia christian communities are growing every day. Some of them promise a lot of things to their devotees, like salvation, richness and whatnot. If not, at least people feel like they belong somewhere. They have youth groups taht get together on Fridays so that they can fell like a party, but with no alcohol or anything... and all kinds of groups that meet throghout the week, making people feel less lonely.

When I worked in the amazon jungle, I was surprised to see how many american missionary groups you find trying to convert the natives. I was working in sex education with teenager and There's a huge problem of STD's down there. and you can't do anything about it because this groups tell them that you can't talk about sex or wear a condom. or anything... but girls still find some gringo to be with, because they think a gringo will get them out of their poverty.

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texluckyv says on Aug 4, 2005, 07:24:

Catholic Mass Anyone know a church in Bogotá where a mass is in English. Thanks for any help

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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:22:

kiki: From what I've read, Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the world, by a long shot. Islam is #2.

I'm not really sure if its a good thing. It would be nice to think people could think for themselves but sometimes I'm not so sure anymore!

Lucia, if I were there, those missionaries would find themselves in SERIOUS problems. I would make an example of them in front of the natives. Disgusting!! When those people die, all the natives that died of STDs are going to be on THEIR heads!

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platano says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:40:

Approximate sizes in number of adherents... I don't know anything about "fastest growing". If the wiccans are "fastest growing" they have a lot of growing to do to come anywhere close to the world's major religions.

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

SOURCE: Major Religions Ranked by Size

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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kikiortiz11 says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:54:

Wicca! wow cant believe that! jaja ..

Gringoinbogota.. Yea i definitely agree with you 100% . Its like a competition to be the best christian. i mean i see it more as an entertainment industry than anything else. you should see some of the protestant churches over here in palm beach county, florida. its unbelievable. Doesnt christianity teach us to be humble? the pastors ride in top of the line cars.. makes me wonder a lot!

Kiki Ortiz-Matallana

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Neonovo says on Aug 4, 2005, 10:15:

Jesus...please save me.... ...from your followers.

Paz
Neonovo

(as seen in a bumper-sticker)

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Diez Y Siete says on Aug 4, 2005, 10:30:

jajaja ilike the bumper sticker... eventhough most of colombia is cathloic, all of hte cathloics i have meet from there are "loose" cathloics and they seem to be cathloic just beacuse everyone else is, well thats how it has seemed with my novio and his friends

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Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 10:37:

Yeah I was amazed at both Colombia AND Brazil. They are far from being good little papist states like they must have been decades ago. They are really just as secularized as anywhere else in the world now.
Check out what has happened to birth rates in South America in the past 50 years. The condom is a wonderful thing!!!

Platano, just by glancing at those stats i'd probably put Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist
as the fastest growing 'religion'.
They seem to have a really funny way of lumping religions together though. Just WTF is 'spiritism' anyways? Are they talking about Kayceanism, Kardecism? I don't even know where the Thelemites and Gnostics and Taoists are going in here. And what about the Existentialists, or is this considered a philosophy and not a religion, despite the fact that Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist is considered a religion! I'm assuming Wicca has been absorbed into 'neo-paganism'.
I stated that Wicca was the world's fastest GROWING religion, meaning by percentage. It has the huge advantage admittedly of having started 51 short years ago at 1 person, however :)))

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poco says on Aug 4, 2005, 12:31:

Tolerance Suriname is diversified in Religion:
Hindu 27.4%, Protestant 25.2% (predominantly Moravian), Roman Catholic 22.8%, Muslim 19.6%, indigenous beliefs 5% with a population of 450,000 or about 1/100 of Colombia.

How it should be.
State Department report for Suriname.

How it is in Colombia.
State Department report for Colombia.

Summary of countries can be reviewed at CIA WORLD FACT BOOK.

Neither country has a pristine political / constitutional record.

In my small rural town there are approx. 12 Catholic schools and one Non Catholic owned School. Most, if not all rural towns have a LARGE Catholic church located on the town square.

No one seems to care WHAT religion you prefer. I’m not ANYTHING and don’t attend Church or even care about religion. The question was asked if I believed in God and a Yes answer seemed OK and I’m positive the entire town knows this because I’m the only American and it is a small place.

I’ve been asked to attend Catholic Church on major religious holiday (ie: go inside) but declined, again, nothing was said. I have attended several Catholic church “events” and watched, along with hundreds of other people while standing in the square.

Evangelicalism in Colombia? Not sure but I’ve become interested in the Religious aspect of politics and I intend to get a better grasp next time I’m in Colombia. Right now, any AUTHORITY figure is BAD NEWS to the FARC, or Guerillas in general but they have slacked off on the murders in the last few years.

I’d say you can be or do anything your heart desires,, EXCEPT get involved with politics or drugs or be in an authoritative position and start “preaching” an unpopular “idea” (like: murdering by CERTAIN groups needs to stop) and THEN it does not seem to matter what your belief or even if you have one.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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