Children learning English and Spanish at the same time

kernow62 says on Oct 20, 2005, 04:36:

Yes, don't worry, other than the occasional Spanglish word that pops out the child will have no problems. Occasionally they make up their own words but this usually goes away when they get a bit older.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 20, 2005, 04:57:

I starting speaking Spanish to them and my husband English, but as they grew up they didn't want me to speak spanish to them, they used to get annoyed, i think there were embarrased in front of their friends (kids!!!) so we started to speak in English. But when we go to Colombia we just talk spanish and they don't mind, my son speak spanish in colombia most of the time, my daughter she does aswell but when i talk to them in spanish they always answer back to me in English (but just me) because with the other people they answer back in Spanish. but they do understand both language ok, but saying that their Spanish gets better everytime we go to Colombia because they are practicing it more and they're talking with different people all the time

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quindioman says on Oct 20, 2005, 05:54:

bunyip Interesting post. It raises a point I usually have a go at my brother about...he has a child who is now 4 years old, as they live in the UK I keep telling my brother to speak to him in Spanish as he's going to be speaking English no problem. I can't fault their parenting but I'm dismayed at times when I see them speaking to little Anthony in English....I have resorted to bribing the kid to speak in Spanish whenever he is with me.
Which country do you reside in? If it's an English speaking country then your child is going to grow up speaking English fluently therefore speaking to your child in Spanish is imperative in my opinion....they'll only be the better for it.

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el flaco says on Oct 20, 2005, 07:30:

Children will learn the language of the country they live in, however they forget it as fast as we do, so if you want your child to be bi-lingual they should speak both languages until they are - well I don't know but my guess is twelve years old. So make sure, if possible, that you don't move away from exposure to whatever language.

After eleven the vocal cords mature and you are stuck with your accent, however you never lose your accents so if they learn English or Spanish again later they will have good accents. An Italian friend was given an english nanny for this reason, she didn't learn English but when she studied it at school could pronouce the th sound with no difficulties.

Children don't like learning two languages, they are as lazy as us. Hence my advice is to only speak at home the language that is not spoken in the country where you live.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 20, 2005, 09:04:

Keep doing what you're doing The early years are the best for learning languages. You're lucky that you and your spouse both have different native languages, so I recommend that you keep each speaking to the kid in your respective languages.

Other things I'd suggest are trying to find other kids for your child to speak both languages with. What's important to my 4-year-old isn't what adults are speaking to him but, rather, the language his peers are speaking. When we move back to the US I'm going to strive to find him some kind of setting where he naturally speaks Spanish with other kids, since his English is going to be great either way.

I've seen plenty of kids here in Colombia grow up tri-lingual, with a French parent, an American parent and speaking Spanish with other kids. It's never seemed to cause them any problems.

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rocinante says on Oct 20, 2005, 09:24:

Always has amazed me I live in a Spanish neighborhood and I can never get a straight answer on this one. How does the child know that there are two different languages if learning both at the same time? How does the child differentiate between the two? To the learning child, it seems that it would appear to be one big language with lots of words that mean the same thing. How does the child know to plug in "azul" in the Spanish sentence instead of "blue"? Not to mention the adjective being in a different spot in the sentence!

This has always amazed the hell out of me and I cannot believe there aren't books written about this phenomenon.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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adrimm says on Oct 20, 2005, 09:38:

Will work very well - keep it up How do I know? Well this was how I learned to speak :My mother spoke to me exclusively in Spanish, and my father in English.

Initially the child will mix words, so although the phrase may make sense, only someone bilingual will understand it. A periodic longer immersion in either language at this stage will make the child switch entirely to one language or the other, but that will go away once the 2 langauges-norm -is imposed again. We went to Col when I was 2 1/2 and when we came home, apparantly I only spoke Spanish, but after a week at home hearing both language I was back to my "bilingualism".

I'd suggest a few longer visits to the langauge of non-residence (maybe all summer) between the ages of 10 and 15 to help cement the accent and help develop adult vocabulary. Vocab has been an issue for me since most of what went on at home in Spanish was very casual so I'm short on technical and more sophisitcated words.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 20, 2005, 09:48:

Mixing it up In my experience kids who learn two languages at a very young age almost never mix them up. My son, who started learning Spanish at 2 and is now 4 has a very clear understanding not just that Spanish and English are different but that there are other languages like French and Japanese. Kids are a lot smarter than most people give them credit for.

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SirTropical says on Oct 20, 2005, 09:49:

I agree with quindio man If you are living in a English- speaking country and that's the place that you have established as a home ( for some people HeadQuarters..lol !!) thenyou should speak spanish to her.. because it's the only source she might have at the moment...otherwise do use English if you are living in Colombia for instance...they won't forget that easy each of the languages in case they move in the future as learning in early stages of childhood develops like a long and natural learning memory term...

good parenting

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:16:

one parent/one language principle makes it possible for the child raised up at a bilingual home to differentiate tha languages and not blend them. Both parents have to be absolutely consequent in applying this rule. It's ok for the child to answer using "the wrong language" and should not be prompted to correct it, but the parents will repeat the child's answer every time in the "right language".

By the age of five or six most language patterns (structure or syntax, phonetics and intonation) are already established; semantics is a lifelong process. After that age there's some fine adjustment (tune-up) that takes place, also grammar develops further. An early exposure to the extended family (grandparents et al) and family friends should be conducted this very same way. If one of the parents has relocated to the country and language enviroment of the other parent it's extremely important that she or he keeps on speaking the native language and doesn't mix the two languages. Cultural and societal stimuli is needed to keep both languages developing and thus enriching and furthering the child's linguistic development.

Another time that's also fine for introducing the second language is just before school start. At that pont, the first language is almost fully learned and the patterns have been established.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Colombiche says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:17:

Languages... ah "After eleven the vocal cords mature and you are stuck with your accent"

I was moved to Canada from Colombia at the age of ten... I still lost like 85% of my spanish accent when I speak English, many Canadians don't think I have an accent, but if you listen closely enough it is there, lurking under the r's and the t's, maybe even the occasional extra split second effort that I have to make when using a English word that starts with s i.e special, stop.... sometimes my subconcious wants to stick an "E" there. But if I try hard, I can sound almost like somebody who was born here except I don't say "eh" at the end of every sentence.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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elmodefoque says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:24:

colombiche, i came here about the same age, but i still sound like babaloo, or ricki ricardo. let me call you sometime so you could laugh. The one thing i have not lost is my very currambero corroncho accent.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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elmodefoque says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:30:

I’m dying to hear you laugh colombiche, I’m dying to hear you laugh. With a laugh, I could tell a woman’s beauty, sexual prowess and favorite position.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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ARMacleod says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:40:

Accent? Some people are natural mimics (unconsciously) with languages. I can speak German, Some Afrikaans, Un poco Arabic (Egyptian) I am told by everyone here in England that Sean Connery sounds just like me. In Ireland I quickly become a native of Belfast.

I would love to hear me through the ears of a German or any other national that I try to imitate, it must be quite grim to say the least.

My stated facts, although interesting at times, are generally irrevelant.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Colombiche says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:45:

Ja ja ja... Babaluu accent you greasy spiccola ja ja ja... Reminds me of the joke:

A teacher tells her pupils to come up with a sentence containing the words "liver" and "cheese".

The little white girl (Katie) raises her hand and says: "My mother cooked LIVER for dinner I didn't want any so she made me a CHEESE sandwich".

The little black boy (Tyronne) raises his hand and says: "Yesterday, me momma sent me to buy some CHEESE. I spent the money on candy, so she punched me in the LIVER".

The little Nicaraguan refugee kid (Pedro Alfonso JR) raises his hand:

"I yust saw a boy trrying to luk up Rosa's skirt. I told him - Hey, LIVER alone, CHEESE my sister, okay pendejo?"

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:50:

ARM, my main Scottish squeeze: when you're able to imitate the Finnish accent you'll become my hero:)

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Colombiche says on Oct 20, 2005, 10:52:

The worst moment I had learning English as a little girl (TRUE STORY)

Back in ESL class there was this little fat Brazilian boy who used to pick on me. I used to yell at him in spanish "No me moleste!!!".

He hit me on the head with a metal ruler. I got so pissed, I went to tell on him because I was so tired of his Molestadera (Colombian word for bugging).

I tell the teacher "Teacher, that boy is ~molesting~ me wit a big metal ruler".

The teacher turned pale and only years later do I realize why.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Rubiazo says on Oct 20, 2005, 11:44:

Vocal cords?? First off, vocal cords develop completely differenty for men and women.
Secondly, there is NO SUCH THING as vocal cords getting 'fixated'. Vocal cords are muscles, if they were 'fixated' they would be atrophied!!!

Thirdly, the accent comes from the mouth, lips, and tongue, NOT the vocal cords. If somebody can't learn to speak like the locals in a new enviromnent, the issue is PSYCHOLOGICAL, not physiological!

Kids pick up accents more quickly than adults, simply because they have less psychological baggage and ego issues than adults do.

My 1 year old son is still learning his first words, some are English, some are Spanish. My 4 year old daughter understands both languages, but prefers speaking English, although she likes learning Spanish words. Most bilingual people here in NYC tend to be dominant in one language and just get by in the other. Spanish kids here tend to speak English like natives and speak broken Spanish full of anglicisms.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 20, 2005, 12:30:

rubi I believe you're right about vocal cords (sp?). You're, however, wrong about bilingualism. A 4-year-old does not understand both languages, only fragments of both languages if these languages have not been spoken in a consistent manner with the child. We tend to overestimate children's capacity to understand spoken language. Every child is different, also. Some are very verbal and have a functioning language with three to five word sentences at the age of three, some others don't until four or five.

There has also been observed a certain delay in language skills development in bilingual homes, especially when parents mix the languages or switch from one language to the other when speaking to the child.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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World Citizen says on Oct 20, 2005, 13:24:

Sorry for contradicting you rubiazo... But when you say that "If somebody can't learn to speak like the locals in a new enviromnent, the issue is PSYCHOLOGICAL, not physiological!" is not completely true.

Learning a second language does change the brain anatony and therefore physiology (to a very small extent). I remember reading an article in a scientific journal but I cannot recall it now. It pretty much explains that the brain stops developing the area in charge of mastering a language at the age of 8 or 10. BUT learning a second language when you are and adult does "stimulate" ANOTHER area of the brain... that's why most ESL students get very tired... mentally and often experience head aches.

What is even more interesting is that learning a second language is related to an increase (I'm not saying directly proportional) in grey matter. Is not that amaizing? Here is an article on this topic:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6242853/

Cheers!


Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

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bkcarolina says on Oct 20, 2005, 19:00:

bilingual should start early children have the innate ability to learn more than one language at a time. speaking to them in two languages is very healthy, and they will not, as some people believe, have problems sorting out the languages. to be truly bilingual, they need to hear both languages as early as possible for as long as possible. you can look it up!

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Rubiazo says on Oct 20, 2005, 20:08:

I am living proof that that theory of when the language part of the brain shuts down is BULLSHIT!
I have learned 4 other languages as an adult, and the ones I use even semi-regularly i can speak fluently without any trace of a gringo accent. I have fooled Dominicans into thinking I'm Dominican (even though i'm so white I'm pink!) and Brazilians into thinking I'm Brazilian before. I'm still working on the Colombian accent. But I'll get there.

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Rubiazo says on Oct 20, 2005, 20:22:

and FWIW I think everybody on Earth should be forced to learn at least one more language, and I think you should have to speak THREE languages to graduate from high school. The Western Hemisphere is really behind the rest of the world as far as languages go.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 20, 2005, 21:43:

My youngest stepdaughter arrived here at age 9 not knowing a word of English. It is a year and a half later and she has been tested in English as having the same skills as a native speaker. The other day we received a notice that she was placed in school's program for gifted children.

My neice grew up in a household with Russian and English speakers and never mixes up the two languages. Same with a little 6 year old girl we met on a plane from Colombia. If you asked her something in English she replied in flawless English. In Spanish in flawless Spanish. I had fun asking her questions switching back and forth between languages. Didn't faze her in the slightest.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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adrimm says on Oct 20, 2005, 22:10:

Rubz FWIW I couldn't agree more.

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Bunyipcatcher says on Oct 21, 2005, 04:25:

Wowsers! This has taken me half an hour to get through all the replies. Thankyou for all the replies. And most of them have confirmed what we have already read on the net. Our daughter might be a lil slower as far as the picking up both languages but in the end both will be fluent. We are not too worried about it, just wanted to see what other ppl had experienced. At 9 months old she is already as quick as a wink. Almost walking and babbling away. We are at the moment in Bogota, so Iam flat out talking to her in English. And in a few months time hopefully we will be moving back to Oz.

Cheers again for all the positive angles,
Scott V

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kernow62 says on Oct 21, 2005, 12:59:

God she'll never learn bloody English in Oz. ;-)

Tell me you didn't name her Sheila.

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