Chavez says U.S., Colombia plotting to kill him

jaramillo says on Jan 16, 2008, 16:51:

If he's going to support FARC I think we should consider him a military target.

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bamacellist says on Jan 16, 2008, 16:58:

WHAT!?! ANOTHER ASSASSINATION PLOT!




yaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnn...

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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elk says on Jan 16, 2008, 16:58:

This article appeared today in the El Colombiano here in Medellin.
A March has been planned here in Medellin and all over Colombia to protest the
actions of the FARC. NO MAS FARC!

http://colombiasoyyo.org/english.html

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 16, 2008, 17:08:

Naomi Campbell is a CIA assassin. She was sent to Caracas with a pair of stiletto heels that convert to a cyanide-tipped dagger.

Castro hallucinates about 600 CIA attempts against his life, I wonder what the count is for Chavez...

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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webmanco says on Jan 16, 2008, 17:28:

I don´t know about Colombia or USA, but sure there is a conspiracy among some PBHers :-), and not just him but his beloved Piedad as well.

All in the name of our "soberana Colombia" :-)

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Mike19 says on Jan 16, 2008, 17:38:

Im from ny and we should kill his ass. He flies to iran and the middle east kissing their basura asses.

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Enrique187 says on Jan 16, 2008, 18:08:

Hopefully the plot goes through.

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juancegomez says on Jan 16, 2008, 18:12:

Chávez has been denouncing assassination plots for years by now. Until a real one is actually attempted and uncovered (the result is immaterial to the discussion), it's not going to be clear how many of them are real or just rhetoric and paranoia.

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fecherklyn says on Jan 16, 2008, 18:16:

You jest....but do Chavez's declarations need a little more analysis?

By analysis, I do not mean whether or not there can be any substance to his allegations that Colombia wants his "hide". This may, or may not be, true, but any official policy is way beyond our scrutiny.

What I mean is "is Chavez consciously increasing the encheres to the level of inciting hostilities with Colombia?".

This has been discussed on PBH before and the general concensus was that the Colombian military would "whip" the Venezuelan's if they came head to head.

But what else can explain why Chavez now feels opportune to link Colombia with the USA about death threats? Whilst the USA can represent a "mystic" opponent of Chavez's revolution (that is to say a symbol rather than a credible cible) it seems, to me, that Chavez is, here, changing the stakes? Alleging your "next door neighbour" is trying to kill you is something different from romantic notions about a remote "tyrant". Frontier disputes can quickly devolve into something much more serious.

Is Chavez that mad?

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juancegomez says on Jan 16, 2008, 18:37:

"This has been discussed on PBH before and the general concensus was that the Colombian military would "whip" the Venezuelan's if they came head to head."

Allow me to differ from that general consensus...at least to a certain extent.

In terms of infantry and helicopter operations, yes, likely.

In terms of conventional military battles in general, including high tech aircraft and tanks...no, not really.

Venezuela, in my opinion, could probably strike deep within Colombian territory with a lot of initial success, but would have a lot of trouble keeping it up if the war is prolonged.

We are in no position to invade Venezuela, nor to repel any initial invasion, but I think we probably could make it very difficult (and costly) for them to stay.

This is, of course, not considering U.S. intervention against Venezuela, but I think the general guidelines would still stand.

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jaramillo says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:05:

Juance, we agree on that one. I think they could go deep in the first few days. We'd give them enough rope to hang themselves.

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billyb says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:14:

Colombia is not tank country, their tanks would be decimated, assuming that they don't bog down on roads and can cross bridges that are not designed to carry tanks' weight. And don't tell me that Venezuela has anything resembling the ability to maintain a supply line even if it indeed was able to drive into Colombia. Their main threat would be superior fixed wing aircraft, and even then they are not wall trained, have no spare parts for their US made planes and have not yet reached competancy on their new Ruskie craft. In the end, it all comes down to motivation and training and there Colombia has it in spades over the Vennies. The last time any Venezuelan soldier fired his gun, it was at unarmed protesters.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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goin_south says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:19:

yes, I just received a memo from GWB, the CIA, and also the FBI.
Que Verdad.
Muy Pronto...... .. .. Un Patico Muerto!
jejeje

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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bamacellist says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:31:

"The last time any Venezuelan soldier fired his gun, it was at unarmed protesters."

shame on you! jajaja... you made my sides hurt!

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

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billyb says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:38:

It would be like Xmas in January.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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CatGirl says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:44:

PARANOID...but I am sure if US & Colombia got together and wanted to take him out, he'd be gone by now...or a long time ago...silly man. Doesn't he realize this? jajaja
Maybe he needs a good dose of Haldol to calm his nerves

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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juancegomez says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:53:

billyb: "Colombia is not tank country, their tanks would be decimated, assuming that they don't bog down on roads and can cross bridges that are not designed to carry tanks' weight."

True, but if they're smart they won't use the tanks and other vehicles without giving that some thought first, considering a lot of their own homeland isn't exactly optimal "tank country" either.

If they are used properly, they could still provide quite a lot of trouble and even help them invade those frontier areas where the tanks can, in fact, effectively operate. Say, towards the northern end of the border.

Though, to be accurate, the main problem lies more with the air force than with the tanks per se, as you later stated.

"And don't tell me that Venezuela has anything resembling the ability to maintain a supply line even if it indeed was able to drive into Colombia."

I don't think they'll be able to stick around for long either, but rather bet on doing as much damage as possible in little time. Which is bad enough. In 1987 they mobilized quite quickly and had plans to do just that. They probably still do.

"Their main threat would be superior fixed wing aircraft, and even then they are not wall trained, have no spare parts for their US made planes and have not yet reached competancy on their new Ruskie craft."

That's leaving too much to chance though, unless you know exactly how many spare parts they lack, how many pilots are or aren't well-trained, and so forth.

"In the end, it all comes down to motivation and training and there Colombia has it in spades over the Vennies. The last time any Venezuelan soldier fired his gun, it was at unarmed protesters."

Again, I don't think their infantry is better, at all, and probably won't have too much motivation or staying power unless we invade Venezuela itself in return (big mistake)....but in the meanwhile, I imagine the initial damage will already be done, before we can really do much to them.

That is definitely not "kicking their ass", at least not at first.

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chrispej says on Jan 16, 2008, 19:56:

Maybe it's true. That's why he's sucking up to the FARC. In case they need to hide him.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 16, 2008, 20:03:

We can always hope that Chavez sets up his own murder, just to prove he was right.

The US tried for how long to take out Castro? And failed miserably. Back in the day when things like that were much easier to do.

Chavez has nothing to worry about except choking on his own hot air.

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manINred says on Jan 16, 2008, 20:26:

I don't particularly like Chavez based on his recent behaviour towards Colombia, however based on recent history he has every reason to be a bit suspicious of the United States and their involvement in Latin America, including being overly concerned about his personal health and safety.

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Catfish35 says on Jan 16, 2008, 20:55:

CHAVEZ needs to cut back on the FARC Coke. I told him 1000 times if I told him a million about the paranoia!

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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chrispej says on Jan 16, 2008, 20:58:

Good one, Catfish! LMOA!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 16, 2008, 21:06:

ManInred, what national leader has the US had whacked in Latin America in the last 20 years?

Maybe I'm having a memory lapse, but I can't remember anyone since Salvador Allende. and that was 35 years ago.

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manINred says on Jan 16, 2008, 21:15:

they haven't needed to whack anyone ;)

still, 35 years isn't very long! And only recently has the new 'left' of Latin America emerged as a major political player.

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CatGirl says on Jan 16, 2008, 21:27:

ManInRed: About Chavez and his behavior, just consider the source. He has reason to worry or be concerned for his health and safety? I agree, his Mental health and safety needs addressing immediately. He is at danger to himself or others - 5150 - jaja

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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msaucey says on Jan 16, 2008, 21:50:

Heck, he's barely starting to get paranoid... Maybe, it's a form of guilt for sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong.....

FARC NEEDS TO MOVE TO VENEZUELA PERMANENTLY.... Maybe then he'll change his mind....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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slguy says on Jan 16, 2008, 21:58:

cassini, honestly. one human to another. you should REALLY edit that drivel you write before hitting "comment". you're embarrassing yourself.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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CatGirl says on Jan 16, 2008, 22:40:

Cass77: You want to follow this man - your choice. Follow the "leader". Let me know how this works out for you....uh if you make it back.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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scotty says on Jan 16, 2008, 22:47:

Chavez a paranoid nut. as for you cassi i recommend a shot of brandy and a warm bath, you need to relax.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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scotty says on Jan 17, 2008, 00:33:

damn, chavez has lost alot of weight, do you think he is on a diet? and i like his plaid shirt.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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billyb says on Jan 17, 2008, 06:42:

Juance, don't forget that Colombia would be in the defensive position and vennies would be attacking, and the rule of thumb is that the invading force needs trhee times the manpower as the defensice force. And the Vennies do not have that. I spent a lot of time in the late 80s with the senior officers of the Third Brigade in Cali and the Third Division and we would spend lots of nights discussing the Venezualan maritime crisis (well they would discuss, I would shut up and listen) and the were not impressed with the Veniie miltary, as a matter of fact, they factored in that one Colombian soldier was the equivalent of three Venezuelan.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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MitchAlvarez says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:00:

i hope uribe is working on something. que lo secuestren, lo castren, y lo tiren de un helicoptero empelota a la selva guerillera.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:39:

I think GIB is right. When Hugo is whacked it'll be by his own countrymen. He's smart to be spreading the conspiracy theory about the US so when it happens it might not seem like he was fragged by his own boys.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:53:

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 10:33:

Colombian Minister asks Chávez to file evidence of alleged plot

Colombian Minister of Defense Juan Manuel Santos Thursday asked President Hugo Chávez to show the proofs demonstrating that an alleged plot is under way in Bogota to assassinate the Venezuelan ruler.

Santos, who conceded that his relations with Chávez are certainly not good, was replying to Chávez's claims on Wednesday that Colombian and US military officers are involved in a plan to assassinate him.

"Let him show the proofs, if it is true," the Colombian Minister told radio station Caracol.

Santos claimed he would not make further comments about Chávez's statements on Wednesday in Nicaragua, and said that Colombian Foreign Minister Fernando Araújo's reply expressed the Colombian view quite clearly, Efe reported.

On Wednesday, the Colombian government, in a communiqué read by Araújo, asked Chávez for "respect." The Venezuelan ruler insists that Colombian rebel groups FARC and ELN are not terrorist organizations, but "genuine armies." Chávez said both the FARC and the ELN should be removed from the lists of terrorist organizations and be given the status of belligerent forces.

According to Araujo, Chávez "does not waste any chance to mistreat Colombia and its government and leaders," and he "mistakes cooperation for interference" in Colombian domestic affairs.

According to the communiqué, Chávez "ignores the terrorist acts of the guerrilla groups, their role in drug trafficking, their crimes against children, women and the elderly, their kidnappings and other crimes," which are viewed worldwide as "crimes against humanity."

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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slguy says on Jan 17, 2008, 11:18:

It's pretty clear to me what El Payaso's game plan is, delusional though it may be.

Now, any overt aid to FARC gets HIM on the terrorist list. Bad for him.

IF, however, he could somehow get them removed from the list (obviously this is the delusional part!) - then he could semi-legitimately offer overt assistance to the "legitimate rebel army" without risking his own appearance on the terrorist list.

El Payaso has always claimed the US is planning to invade Venezuela and/or assasinate him. It's one of his methods to rally the illiterate to his cause. He does a very good job of reading Comrade Fidel's playbook. I cannot imagine that the US has bothered plotting against Fidel's life in 30 years- he's not a sufficient threat to justify the risk. For now, they're both simply tinpot annoyances. Although smart money is on Fidel remaining in power, long after (assuming he doesn't die pretty quickly) El Payaso has been dealt with internally.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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catherine b says on Jan 17, 2008, 14:15:

I think it's high time the Venezuelan people and both government and military officials seriously demand that Chavez be evaluated by psychiatrc professionals. He is NOT well.

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msaucey says on Jan 17, 2008, 15:58:

The path he keeps traveling is going to really cause him a lot of harm.... I was talking to a Venezuelan friend, and he gets quite upset everytime he talks to his family in Venezuela.... Every week it's getting harder and harder to buy staples (i.e., milk, eggs, meat, etc.)...

He's really going to have the world put a mark on his head.... I'm sure he probably doesn't even sleep anymore...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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SiV says on Jan 18, 2008, 07:10:

As Kurt Cobain said,

"just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you. . ."

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 18, 2008, 08:27:

I've been told by people who should know that Chavez is so paranoid that when he goes to these big summits with other presidents he actually brings all his own food and drink and keeps it secuestered. Apparently the food and drink that's good enough for Presidents Uribe, Lula and Morales isn't safe enough for Chavez to feel comfortable.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 18, 2008, 08:32:

Well, it's a timely announcement - the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff was in Colombia yesterday meeting with Colombia's Minister of Defense. I glanced at a press release which expressed concern about the military build up in Venezuela (the same thing that's been said for years). I guess this means an invasion and/or assassination was being plotted behind closed doors.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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webmanco says on Jan 18, 2008, 08:36:

It means that USA will sell Colombia some more amunition.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Man Tequila says on Jan 18, 2008, 10:47:

Not much new here, the paranoia was always there, and not completely without reason. It is just becoming more spread out.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jan 18, 2008, 12:22:

ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jan 18, 2008, 12:23: