Change in US policy regarding illegal Immigration

Rikito says on Apr 14, 2006, 13:41:

You need to read more... The only immigration policy the U.S. has is for legal immigrants.

There is no policy for illegal immigrants. This means illegal immigrants can come to the U.S.:
* Without a medical exam to see if they have HIV, TB, VD or other infectous diseases.
* They can get free medical examination and free health care
* Most do not pay federal income taxes
* Most get a free eduction and in-state tuition for college
* Anmd who cares about a silly criminal record!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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kernow62 says on Apr 14, 2006, 17:36:

I saw some figures being posted on local TV that illegals pay 10 billion dollars in taxes a year and cost the healthcare system 2 billion dollars. If these figures are correct do the schools cost another 8 billion?

Who figures the healthcare cost and how is it done. For example a charge of $800 from a practitioner might be actually paid as $130 from the insurer (or govt.) and up to $20 copay from the insured or non-insured. So is the 2 billion figure based on the $800 or the $150 scenario?

On the same program they also brought up this interesting tidbit. Would US consumers prefer to buy California lettuce for $.89 a head that is picked by illegals, or would they rather buy Mexican grown lettuce for $.89 picked by these same people? There sadly isn't an option that has US grown produce picked by US labour, because the farms would most likely shut down.

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platano says on Apr 14, 2006, 19:01:

All "illegal" immigrants who are Colombian should be given amnesty immediately because Colombians give more than they take from the USA economy. (more Colombian professionals immigrate and we should remember that the Colombian education system is superior).

This isn't true with other nationalities, but the whole argument about economic impact is moot. Economists say the impact is favorable but only by +/- 1%, which isn't enough to support the argument that immigrants benefit the economy. But economists do say the impact is NOT negative (any Colombian presence in the USA is positive IMHO); overall the immigrant economic contribution is postive but only slightly.

SOURCE: NPR.
"...many economists say the effect of an estimated 11 million undocumented workers is minimal. While illegal immigrants have a negative impact on unskilled workers -- many of whom lack technical training or a high school diploma -- economists believe that overall, the American economy benefits a small amount from illegal immigration -- "a little bit less than 1 percent," according to NPR's Adam Davidson. That finding, he says, suggests that neither side of the immigration issue has a strong economic argument to make."

plátano

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platano says on Apr 14, 2006, 20:19:

GringoD: You go to the GRINGO BUNKER embassy in Bogotá.... on the day of your appointment. Stand in line, then get lucky at the right window for a tourist visa. Stay in the USA forever.

It is not hard to do.

The hard way to do it is through the hole in the fence with the help of a Mexican coyote, but they tend to mistreat people and steal from them. It's riskier, but is an option for those who can't get a tourist visa. I have helped Colombians do both.

plátano

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sweetcalena says on Apr 14, 2006, 20:24:

GringoD: I know people that came from Colombia and other countries with a Tourist Visa, but they never went back to their country. They stayed here in the U.S. so they became illegals.

“Sit down to write what you have thought, and not to think about what you shall write.�William Cobbett

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platano says on Apr 14, 2006, 20:39:

GringoD: Very funny comment you made... LOL! "most of us here do things by the book"

Would that book be the 2005 National Public Survey on White Collar Crime?

Those guys are the employers and business owners hiring the "illegals" (and that makes the employers illegal, too. LOL!)

"Within recent years, instances of white collar crime have become a topic of increasing frequency within the news. Security data breaches and crimes such as identity theft, credit card fraud, disaster fraud, and mortgage fraud have pervaded recent media reports, and scandals involving corporations such as Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, HealthSouth, and ImClone have dominated airtime. Furthermore, monetary estimates from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners approximate the annual cost of white collar crime to be between $300 and $660 billion.

Despite the evidence of the widespread nature of white collar crime, there remain few empirical studies devoted to assessing the prevalence of white collar crime as it relates to the general public. In response to this, NW3C conducted the 2005 National Public Survey on White Collar Crime (a follow-up to NW3C’s original National Public Survey on White Collar Crime conducted in 1999). By utilizing household and individual measures, this nationally-representative survey highlights the public’s recent experiences with white collar crime including victimization, reporting behaviors, and perceptions of crime seriousness."

plátano

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platano says on Apr 14, 2006, 20:56:

My inference is that the gringos are the "illegals".... It is against "their laws" to steal, it is against their "laws" to hire undocumented Colombian workers... but the white collar gringos break the law everyday... and then have the nerve to criticize honest Colombians who overstay a Tourist Visa and are only wanting to work hard and help their families.

plátano

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aztec says on Apr 15, 2006, 03:07:

"it is against their "laws" to hire undocumented Colombian workers..."

Have to agree with platano. When we no longer are able to hire illegal aliens then many if not most will return to Mexico. Yes I do mean Mexico since that country is the source of the mass invasion.

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kernow62 says on Apr 15, 2006, 09:37:

GringoD, usually it is as stated above witha tourist visa, but I know other ways through some former British colonies that are really close to the US mainland if you are interested. ;-)

GIB's mates in the Coastguard are making things increasingly tougher. The Homeland Security crackdown on private pilots and small planes also threw a spanner into a nice little business.

How's a guy supposed to earn a living in the USA?

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 15, 2006, 11:43:

Platano, you're off base Ive been following your comments about the "law breaking gringos"..

Who told you that the US (or UK,GE, and anywhere else) is some buffet where you can just show up and take what you want? How hypocritical! if some American citizen or US company comes to Colombia to do business, its "IMPERIALISMO YANQUI". But on the other hand, you think you (or other Colombians) have some God given "right" to go to other countrys and do as you wish!

Just so you know, I came to the US -LEGALLY- did the paperwork, paid my dues and now Im reaping the benefits (and obligations). Colombians (or anybody else) who overstays their visa are NOT HONEST COLOMBIANS...they're breaking a law! And guess what Amigito, In Colombia its THE SAME THING...foreigners need work visas and those who overstay are asked to leave. If I can follow the rules, so can you or anybody else.

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 15, 2006, 12:30:

yep...ur right.. Yep, that was an assumption -my bad. But it doesnt matter, I meant that for anyone Colombian, latino or otherwise who thinks comming to America is some right, not a privilege. And really, having lived in Europe as well, I include UK,Germany and other EU nations who have the same problem: people who think that prosperous countries should just dole out charity "no questions asked" and then feel very offended if that host nation tries to put some controls on the management of their resources. To Platano, if your not Colombian, my apologies...none-the-less I stand by my point.

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platano says on Apr 15, 2006, 21:39:

BiNatBoy No need to apologize. I am a gringo and I welcome Colombians into my country without any visa, without any papers... the more Colombians who come to my country the better. I know the Colombian education system (I got a 313 on the ICFES in 1987) and I know the USA education system so I know the Colombian system is superior and Colombians will be an asset to my country. They will pay taxes but they will also have a leavening effect on the serious USA Weltanschauung. When I lived in New Jersey I would go to the public parks and not find a white face there, but Colombians would have the salsa pumped up and the picnic table overflowing with food and children playing and people enjoying life in a way gringos don't seem to be able to. I welcome Colombians, the more the better, with or without papers, and I don't care one bit (¡me importa un pepino!) how they get here. I don't believe in borders that separate people anyway. Nations with their borders are like giant prisons. You think you are free until you try to cross the border and someone asks for papers. You need permission to leave.

¡Qué se acaben las fronteras, y qué crezca el amor!

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

plátano

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platano says on Apr 15, 2006, 21:55:

ICFES INSTITUTO COLOMBIANO PARA EL FOMENTO DE LA EDUCACIÓN SUPERIOR

ICFES is the test you take before you go to college.

plátano

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sweetcalena says on Apr 15, 2006, 21:57:

GringoD: It is sort of like the SAT.
;-)

“Sit down to write what you have thought, and not to think about what you shall write.�William Cobbett

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platano says on Apr 15, 2006, 22:06:

God given "right" BiNatBoy says: "...you think you (or other Colombians) have some God given "right" to go to other countrys and do as you wish!"

Yes, not only is it our God given right, it is part of our heritage. In the USA Declaration of Independence it says as human beings it is our right to make life into one big salsa party... except the Declaration of Independence uses different words... an unalienable right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

SOURCE: USA Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Salsa on, dude!

plátano

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platano says on Apr 15, 2006, 23:00:

Piedad está conmigo! Ciudanía Global! Sí, Sí, Sí, Caribe! En Colombia, la senadora liberal Piedad Córdoba, jefa del movimiento Poder Ciudadano Siglo XXI, exhortó a trabajar para que los inmigrantes indocumentados "no sean vistos como criminales".
"Si quieren (Estados Unidos) tratados de libre comercio para inundarnos con sus productos subsidiados a costa de la producción nacional, también deberían liberar la circulación de mano de obra y empezar a fortalecer una ciudadanía global", expresó. Bogotá y Washington están en plena negociación de un acuerdo comercial de ese tipo.

plátano

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platano says on Apr 15, 2006, 23:10:

Immigrants demand rights... in "the land of the free" In the USA supposedly there is freedom to speak, freedom to protest... but in reality...

Protest Rallies End in Job Loss for Immigrants By Monica Davey The New York Times Saturday 15 April 2006

"In Bonita Springs, Fla., 10 restaurant workers were fired this week after skipping their shifts to attend a rally against legislation in Congress cracking down on illegal immigrants. In Tyler, Tex., 22 welders lost their jobs making parts for air conditioners after missing work for a similar demonstration in that city.

And so it went for employees of an asbestos removal firm in Indianapolis, a restaurant in Milwaukee, a meatpacking company in Detroit, a factory in Bellwood, Ill."



If they skip work for a sick day, they don't lose their jobs. They lost their jobs for daring to have a voice.

plátano

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 09:24:

Platano, "Land of the free"... has limitations Platano, I think you've not been familiarized with a basic socio-political concept (and its global, it happens anywhere). Here, try this:
Get off your couch and walk over to your neigbor's house. Go inside, open the fridge and help yourself to whatever you like. then sit on thier couch grab the remote and play your favorite show while you kick your heels up on their coffee table. OH!...and do this while they're home.

After you complete this small experiment, write back to me and then tell me the difference between "freedom", "liberty" and "Libertinage".

Yes, I agree it would be wonderful if we all loved each other and kissed each other's babies.... but thats not reality, nor will it ever be. What we do have are RULES...intended to keep order, maintain a modicum of fairness (semi-utopian as well), and create an operative baseline that we ALL can live with. Without those RULES we plunge into chaos.

Lastly, I thank you for welcoming me as you have. Yes, Im one Colombian (now binational, ergo BiNatBoy) who has lived here many years, am a veteran (USAF), and dearly love everything that this country stands for.

Final Comment, if your forefathers had intended to found a smorgasboard that the whole world could come to, they wouldnt have spent so many years finely crafting the declaration of independence as they did. They would just have written "We dont wanna pay english taxes, we quit, were gonna do our own thing so have a nice day"

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 09:32:

OOPS...wrong document In my last post I said "they wouldnt have spent so many years finely crafting the declaration of independence "...that was an error. The many years (3 I believe) were spent writing the Constitution!

Oh, those pesky little rules...how they trip us up!

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 12:02:

The rules are not being followed in the USA.... It bothers me that people have this idea that Colombia is lawless and the USA is lawful. There are lots of laws on the books in both countries but they are selectively enforced. From what it looks like, the laws in the USA about employers hiring illegals are not being enforced at all. How can you blame the illegals for that? And you can be sure the illegals will never see the money they have deducted for social security, unless an amnesty is retroactive, which I doubt will ever happen. The illegals are being robbed... they won't get that money back.

plátano

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 12:41:

GringoD: "full-swing into a revolution" You got that right! Say goodbye to the USA as you have known it. Whites will now get a taste of what it is like to be minorities. It is an exciting time, full of dynamic change... the revolution is unstoppable. 500,000 in the streets of Dallas, Texas! yes!

No way... no way... you are going to send back 11 million "illegals" ... they are the new USA! Support George W. Bush amnesty plan!

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 14:49:

A few comments.. Being from Calfornia where the Mexican population is now at 51%, (which means they are no longer a minority by the way..interesting thought), i think we do need to control our borders 100% for security reasons and to prevent undesirable people like MS-13 gang members or the Cuban max-security prisoners sent to us years ago, and if that means physical barriers where needed, lets build them. For all the estimated 11 million illegals currently here, regardless of national origin, they need to be returned to their respective countries, then the law-abiding families and people who have been patiently trying for ages to enter the US to live their dreams will be allowed to enter and do so. WIth an 11 million person vaccuum, the yearly immigration quota from each country could be dramatically increased, including Colombia =) =)

No doubt Immigration policy needs reform, and once established, strict enforcment....law enforcement agencies should not have the authority to pick and choose the laws they wish to enforce. It should not be easier for the spouse of an American citizen to be allowed entry, and harder for any caliber of person (child molesters, dangerour criminal) to enter. It seems almost backwards, but then again, it is much easier in the US for a man to marry a man, or a woman to marry a woman, than a man and woman to marry.....

I am adamantly oppposed to rewarding illegal behavior and rejecting legal behavior....If they didnt respect our laws to enter, what makes you think they will once established here? It makes sense to me that the legally entered person would appreciate just being here because they know what it took to get here.

Boycotting "everything gringo" in Mexico on May 1? The mexican rally organizers have targeted Sears in Mexico....real smart people, huh? since 1997 some poor mexican named Carlos Slim has owned it..Anti white person are they? Smacks of racism to me.....

Some say the illegals pay X bazillion $$ in taxes....ummmm, try buying something in the USA where taxes are optional...if they pay the tax, they dont get the item, service, etc....the same amount of taxes would have been paid anyway with 11 million "legal" immigrants....who waited their turn in line.....i say, let them in before the ones who came illegally.....

Revolution Theory: ....gave me a good chuckle....internet fodder for PC intellectuals with alot a times on their hands........=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo....faltan 75 dias....


"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 15:56:

Unlawfullness is everywhere its what we do about it that counts Colombia is not lawless, its culturally different than the US. When we dont like a rule in the US, we can organize, protest, write and vote a change if the majority concurrs (even the ILLEGALS can do it!). In Colombia, yes, the system is SUPPOSED to work that way, but in reality it DOESNT. Remember our friends in Las FARC? They think the vehicle of change is an AK-47, thats why we hunt them down and take 'em out like the vermin they are. (its not political anymore buddy, its Narco$$ now) It breaks my heart how they are corrupting the flower of such a beautiful nation.

That aside, Im sure you've heard the term "No de Papaya"? more importantly is that it has a corollary term: "Si hay papaya, coma papaya" and that simply means if there is a way to take advantage of a situation...then do it. Sadly..that includes rule-breaking/bending, etc.

Bribery, graft, nepotism, etc. exist all over the world, and in some places its almost institutional (you should try Mexico!). Sure the US has law-breakers! but man-for-man Its A LOT less than most places else and its a PRIMARY reason this nation rose to its current greatness: The majority of the population respects the rules so that EVERYONE can prosper.
Which is also WHY everyone wants to come here! they see it as the land 'o Goshen but do not understand that they need to leave their OLD ways and learn to integrate into our laws and systems (C'mon do you need a history lesson on how America was founded??).

The PAPAYA system does not work here. And when someone tries to get away with Papaya and get caught - they go to jail or get deported. Great! Im happy for that. And I cant wait laws are passed that disallow growers to look the other way by saying "I just hire a contractor..I dont care where he gets his people" But keep in mind that the crop-pickers are just one TEEENY TINY component of the illegals here...there are many more who are plain subversive..ever hear of M-13?..No? then look'em up and find out what the latin underground is up to these days.

I have to say you sound pretty misiniformed. Put down that copy of bolshevick Pollyanna your reading and pick up the NYTimes or something about the real world.

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:01:

THIS IS FANTASY: "WIth an 11 million person vaccuum..." This kind of wishful thinking is an unrealistic fantasy: "they need to be returned to their respective countries" (anybody have a realistic plan for doing that? no.)

NOBODY IS GOING TO REMOVE 11 MILLION IMMIGRANTS. They came in illegally. GW became president illegally. They are both here. Get over it! And let them all stay.

My non-intellectual, non-bolshevek, anti-pollyana, hard-nosed reality, two cents. :)

plátano

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:13:

Man I wish I had read MgClavo's Post!! MiguelC...you are all over it man! I only wish everyone could experience what it takes to pull up and out. I didnt get to where I am by being a leech, and I wouldnt have come here had I expected that this was going to be one big free-for-all.. America is a land of opportunity...NOT the land of anarchism. My retirement plans are to return to Colombia and teach...hopefully I can instill some of the great values in young minds. Its the only way to stop ELNs,Farcs or M19s before they start.

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:20:

"America is a land of opportunity...NOT the land of anarchism" Anarchism is a respected political theory and is as American as apple pie. It is a theory of mutual cooperation instead of social coercion.

Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_individualist_anarchism

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:21:

Of course it is fantasy and wishful thinking... but where is it written that it has to be done all at once? Just proper enforcement of existing laws would have prevented the "immigration crisis (revolution)" which occurs now. Maybe stepped up enforcement is all that is needed......Nazi-style roundups probably not......=) What is currently happening is that most municipal and county police agencies dont even bother with illegals, with the exception of in-custodies, wher the old INS would pick them up.

Get over it? Not likely as long as my friends and i can still vote....maybe we need to send them to Canada? think they would embrace them? just a thought....hahahaha...=)

Re: My non-intellectual two cents. ......i guess you think i was referring to you....=)

Re: Miguel_C, looks like you got quite abit of that 'free time' on hand yourself............i wish i had more time for this on my hands,
but most of my posts are for needed information, not tea party debates....but the internet is a great time-killer, isnt it?


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:24:

"...but the internet is a great time-killer, isnt it?" Finally, something I can agree with you about... 100% LOL!

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:32:

Hmmmm...theres even a place in this world for theorists! ....retirement homes and rocking chairs on the porch! hahahah...and by the way....theorists are usually never on the front line, at least i have never seen any there....usually drinking their $5 lattes and reading/thinking/discussing/evaluating/etc etc about intangibles, and never actually getting around to doing anything.....then taking their naps!....Gotta go...need to determine the best ways for calling to and from Colombia to the US for my office in CTG.....Like our illustrous and much hated governor in California says...."Ill be back!"

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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aztec says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:33:

Immigrants demand rights... in "the land of the free" Platano, they do have rights in the USA.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:35:

I forgot.....BiNatBoy..you run for office in either country.. i will vote for ya!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 16:43:

Platano, they do have rights in the USA. I want the 11 million illegals to have the most important right of all.

They live here, they work here, they pay taxes... but they have no right to determine who represents them in legislatures... taxations without representation... hmmmm....

Give all illegals citizenship immediately and allow them the RIGHT TO VOTE... no more taxation without representation... my ancestors fought a war about that. And the people who fought that war did not come here legally... they tromped all over the residents who were already here (breaking moral laws right and left like for example "thou shalt not kill")... to the tune of a genocide of millions of people.

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 17:07:

Now you got it! Enter here legally and you get all that, and the right to wave a mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo to boot! or to shop at Walmart.... ...what your ancestor were fighting for had nothing to do with new millenium immigration policies for an established country....your ancestors would also probably be puking right now if they saw what happened to the country they died for...

and Mexico is upset because they will lose a significant source of US $$....a significant number current mexican immmigrants earn their money and send it to relatives in mexico (making western union buku $$) because they came here for employment only...whereas the legal immigrant probably has more long term plans and desires to retain their $$..

"they tromped all over the residents who were already here (breaking moral laws right and left like for example "thou shalt not kill")... to the tune of a genocide of millions of people."..........why stop there.. i think that Adam should receive restitution from that sneaky Eve chick......


Miguel_Clavo

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 17:14:

Adam? Eve? The thread is about the USA: "Change in US policy regarding illegal Immigration"

Adam and Eve would be off-topic. :)

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 17:22:

the original injustice.... since we are in a mood to correct injustices.....what do you think women should pay men in restitution?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 17:33:

Adam and Eve are mythical, not historical figures, so... I would say women do not owe anything to men. The USA should reward the illegals with citizenship because they believed in the "American dream" so much they risked everything (many have died in the process) to come here and contribute to the USA economy. They are patriots and the future belongs to them. Embrace them.

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 18:55:

Hmmm.... Reward Bad behavior (illegal aliens) or Good behavior(legal aliens)??? ...doesnt work with immigration here, nor with ones children either....Bad Parents! No Starbucks lattes for you!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 75 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 18:59:

I respect all of our ages, but has it been confirmed yet ... that they were mythical? Eyewitnesses or lack thereof? It is equally as possible they did exist.....until all the evidence is provided publicly?? demanding skepticism, yes?...lattes for everyone!


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 75 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 20:37:

So much for discussion on the problem...the solution? I will have to agree with Platano that deporting 11M Illegals is not an overnight thing (assuming that is an accurate number...illegals dont just stand up to be counted) or an easy solution. So yes, some form of amnesty may be in order but in my mind it should NOT be a free ride!...So...if history is anything to go by, then how about something like the CCC of the depression era? i.e. Put 'em to work on government projects and have them EARN their stay.. if they refuse, then "Tome su patada en en el culo" and home they go. Likewise, if they commit a crime then bang!: Your on a boat! Im not suggesting they dont get due process, I am saying if they're found guilty of something short of rape/murder...then HOME they go! ORRRRR...they can join the one of the services and EARN their stay that way...Not only will they become productive and learn a skill, they ALSO learn WHY this country is WORTH fighting for!

To hell with any jackass that just wants to show up, get the goodies and bug out!

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 21:04:

I have already given a solution... Reward the illegal behavior by immediately granting citizenship... then the underground economy will decrease and tax revenues will increase. And it should be a free ride... no punishment. (Hey it's Easter, let's practice Christian forgiveness and grant a full amesty, no strings attached). All this talk of shipping them out and punishment is unrealistic and would be much more costly. It would just continue the revolving door we have now. Building walls and stationing thousands of troops on the borders is not realistic either (and would be costly). A revolution is happening. The USA is changing composition. There is no way to stop immigration so it would be better to just accept it and legalize it. (kind of like how they did with alcohol when prohibition failed). Border control is a failure. Eliminate the borders.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

plátano

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 16, 2006, 21:41:

I love Andy Rooney I get a big kick out of Andy Rooney when he starts his commentary with "Did you ever wonder.....". Its mostly because the things that he comments about are such common daily occurrences that no one ever notices them, but its always funny to hear it. So in that vein...

Platano, Did you ever wonder....
* WHY when a glass is full you can't get any more water in it?
* WHY if your bank account is empty, they wont give you anymore money

I could go on, but Ill spare the silliness...

Sure, ok, lets do it: out comes my magic wand and KAZZAM! youre all Legal now!

Oh...what?! No Skills? No worries, PLATANO will educate you
Youre Cold? See PLATANO...he has homes for you
Say that again?... What? NO JOBS?! No sweat PLATANO will support you!

Arm-chair Quarterbacking is easy dude...think it through one time.

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 21:51:

I have given my solution BiNatBoy... Let's hear yours... and make it realistic, please. My magic amnesty wand is a hell of a lot more real (and illegals will accept it) than any idea that involves removing 11 million people or putting them to work on public works projects that split up families. No magic wand can do that. You'll never find them all.

plátano

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 22:39:

A Case of Short Term Memory Loss Hmmm....we just tried the amnesty thing and instant citizenship about 20 years or so ago, if you recall, to solve the mother of all immigration dilemmnas......20 years later without enforcement of that socalled Immigration Reform and what do you have to show for it? Not a f**king thing, numbers have multiplied and we are back to square one......No one mentioned stopping immigration, Platano. I think immigration is wonderful, but i never read anywhere it written "give us your sick, lame and lazy" either. But in a controlled manner with secured borders. We determine who enters, and certainly not a neighboring country who has ridden on the coattails of the US. Kinda of like preventing that messy urban sprawl, except with legal immigrants who respect the laws of the intended country.

Removal would be like attrition: secure the borders, apprehend the illegals who commit crimes, deport their sorry asses to their country of origin (or, to break the monotony of it all, send a few to a different country! =) ) No stress to round up anyone except the law violator...simple and smooth.....with secure borders its just a matter of time before the "long arm of the law" greets them.....hell, in California, every other uninsured motorist is from Mexico, and accidents happen every hour! Just need to get the police to enforce existing laws.....

I agree...this nation is dynamic, and we should only be permitting desirable people, and leave the pedophiles, , rapist, narco dealers, drug addicts (or other future Democrats......easy now, just kidding! )in their own country. Or, if its Easter, in the name of a Sacred Bunny, with the help of Platanos magic wand, we can let those people in too! I wonder how long it would be before the Bunny gets violated! I bet he would be "hopping" mad, huh?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 75 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 16, 2006, 22:46:

Reward the illegal behavior by immediately granting citizenship. Wow....i wish i had parents like Platano.....he would be the perfect parent to the juvenile delinquent types! I can see it now: Dad: Hi Juan! how was school today! Juan: Well, pops, i stole a teachers purse, beat the shit out of that retarded kid i dont like, and looked up that Brittany Spears looking girls dress. Other than that, Dad, not much! Dad: Im so proud of you, you remind me of me....here is a twentyspot to go buy some weed!"

And your speech to all the potential immigrants politefully and respectfully waiting in line (yeards for some) to enter legally? Give us a sample of your speech to them......

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 75 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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platano says on Apr 16, 2006, 22:56:

"We determine who enters..." LOL! More magical fantasy... the borders are porous... 11 million got through. Embrace America. Immigrants (including criminals) are the past of the USA and illegal immigrants are the future of the USA.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

plátano

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 17, 2006, 08:44:

Don't know much about immigration, BUT... Maybe US policymakers should listen to those Marxists that they put in IMF, the ones that keep saying that globalization is an inevitable economic force, no?

Just my 1 cent.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Apr 17, 2006, 08:55:

I think it would be interesting to see a court case that moves through the system and challenges the interpretation of the 14th amendment. Now THAT would make for some heated opinions.

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Miguel says on Apr 17, 2006, 09:06:

This is making news in St. Louis

Prominent local Hispanic deported
By Kim Bell
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Friday, Apr. 14 2006

One of the St. Louis area's most visible Hispanic entrepreneurs was deported to
Mexico on Friday as an illegal immigrant.

Cecilia Velazquez, 36, is publisher of Red Latina, a Spanish-language
newspaper, and president of Radio CuCui, a group that brings ethnic performers
and commentators to WEW-AM radio.

Velazquez had been in the United States since December 2000. Her deportation
ended a five-year legal battle over her status.

"I'm devastated," Velazquez said from her cell phone, as she stood in Juarez,
Mexico, an hour after being escorted back into her homeland. "No doubt they
used me as an example."

Authorities arrested her April 7 outside her home in north St. Louis County.
She was jailed for one week before being bused to Kansas City early Friday for
a flight to El Paso, Texas.

Shortly after 5 p.m. Friday, a bus took her halfway across a bridge leading
into Mexico, and she was escorted on foot into Mexico, said Carl Rusnok,
spokesman for the U.S. Immigration and Custom Enforcement agency. Laws forbid
her from re-entering this country for 10 years, Rusnok said.

Velazquez's arrest came two days before last Sunday's big rally on behalf of
immigrants that drew thousands to the Old Courthouse in St. Louis.

"I have been working so hard in the United States all these years, helping my
people, paying my taxes, being a good person," Velazquez said. "I want to come
back, of course."

Her attorney, Raymond R. Bolourtchi, said her departure "can only hurt and
damage the Hispanic community. She was their voice."

Velazquez originally was stopped in Houston after entering the United States
with a visitor's visa on Dec. 27, 2000. Officials who questioned her then
determined she was "actually an intending immigrant," Rusnok said, and she
given two weeks to return to Mexico.

She didn't and was arrested in 2003 in St. Louis. An immigration judge issued a
final order in 2004 for her to leave the country. After losing an appeal to the
Board of Immigration Appeals, she petitioned the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals, but lost that round in August.

Politicians - including U.S. Sen. Jim Talent and U.S. Reps. William Lacy Clay
Jr. and Russ Carnahan - wrote letters of support for Velazquez. Carnahan's
letter, for example, noted that Velazquez "demonstrated a lot of community
service," said Carnahan spokesman Glenn Campbell. But those letters, Campbell
said, came late in the legal process.

Velazquez said she thought those heavy-hitters would have staved off her
deportation. "All the big guys were trying to get a special deal for me," she
said.

'It's unfortunate'

Word about her deportation quickly spread Friday among her friends and business
acquaintances.

"It's awful for her, it's unfortunate, no matter what her status was," said
Lydia Padilla, president of TRC Staffing Services in St. Louis, which places
Spanish-speaking workers with area employers. "I did not know her legal status,
but what I do know is she donated lots of time and money to needy causes."

Padilla said Red Latina, with its offices on Cherokee Street, is the most
respected paper in the Hispanic community, and the only local paper that is 100
percent Spanish. "Red Latina" means Latin network. Padilla advertises in the
newspaper. She said Velazquez conducted a toy drive for children every
Christmas.

Late last month, Velazquez told a Post-Dispatch reporter that people would
approach her - because of her control over the Hispanic newspaper and radio
program - to help them organize as Congress attempts to deal with the 12
million illegal immigrants now in the country. She said she didn't want to be a
social activist.

"I'll spread the word, but that's all," Velazquez said at the time. "I don't
want to damage my own case."

Her fiancee, Andrew Jones, said Velazquez was "probably one of the most
recognizable Hispanic people in the city - in the top 20 at least, if not the
top five," he said. "We can't even go to the grocery store without people
asking for her autograph."

After arriving in Juarez, Velazquez said she booked a flight to go to Mexico
City to stay with her parents.

Eun Kyung Kim of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.
_____________________________________________________________________

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 17, 2006, 09:33:

Adios, pobrecita MF!!! "We can't even go to the grocery store without people
asking for her autograph."....I bet Charles Manson, Scott Pederson, and other law violators have the same problem..Maybe Sainthood is next??? ...See ya in 10 years, lady! Maybeeeeeeeeeeeee...............next time enter legally....Oopppsss! hate when that happens~! =)..open the door for one more legal immigrant, please!

Proof the system works, one body at a time!!!!!!! Good Job, Boyzzz!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 75 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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caslug says on Apr 17, 2006, 13:35:

she even had a boyfriend.. why didn't she just marry him?

We(foreigners) come to COL and when our time is up, we go back home. We even have to pay DAS every month we stay. So if we can follow the rules, why can't others that want to come to the US?

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Blue says on Apr 17, 2006, 14:32:

Classical scholars are a dime a dozen. If he had scientific or mathematical ability his case would be more compelling.

Blue

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Blue says on Apr 17, 2006, 16:05:

The U.S. has enough people as it is. We don't need or want anymore immigrants; legal or illegal. The U.S. is overpopulated and polluted. More people just makes it worse. We should bring our military home from the scores of outposts they're located including Iraq and deploy them along our borders. No more immigration period.

Blue

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 17, 2006, 16:58:

Everyone Has A Sad Story of An Unjust Life To Tell...... Now with porbrecito Sr. Padilla, like i said, who doesnt have a sad story to tell? The same sad story or simliar one could be told by every Mexican immigrant family in the US today. I dont feel sympathy for him, like his life is going to be sooooooo awful in the UK??? I could think of a lot worse things in life...please....have a nice stay in the UK!!!! Sucks to be you!! To me, that is just 2 down, with 10,999,998 to go~~~~!!

Seems like the party is over for Mr Padilla! No more free housing, free medical (especially childbirth costs every time a new pup gets pumped out at US taxpayer expense), welfare checks, food stamps, and the like. No wonder so many people sneak in here, sounds like a complete free ride! at the expense of everyone here legally....i know i know....That magic wand is coming out again!!! Platano?

First it says his family came here for medical reasons, then they stayed, popped out a couple of pups, and decided to stay...."more oppurtunities in the US"...really? is that how that works?

Moral of Both Stories: Come here legally and live happily ever after.......one thing for sure, you wont get deported for being illegal!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 74 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 17, 2006, 19:45:

Miguel, I'm afraid you miss the point Sure, there is something to be said about the sappiness of Mr. Padilla's story, but I believe the main point is that this is the US's loss. Good minds are (or should be) priceless to any society, and to let them go this easily would be a shame. But, hey, the US is a sovereign nation and it's up its the people if they want to keep the morons and let the bright ones leave because of where they were born. That's just fine by me: More morons to educate + less intelligent people = More work for me. It just worries me the little value it is given to a well educated mind; I see it everywhere lately, and it's kind of sad.

This doesn't say much about immigration policy, though, because most undocumented migrants are not in Princeton but rather waiting outside Home Depot.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 17, 2006, 20:29:

Like the US is going to miss, uhhh....Mr, ...uhhh.... what was his name???? Keep the morons? they are alot of them cruising through the borders as we speak...not to even mention the locally born talent!..are the illegals here by our choice? NOT!! and BTW, if he is so smart and talented he can figure out a legal way to return...then i would welcome him with open arms! We can talk just like the Romans did, i took 4 years of latin in school, much to my dismay! Couldnt find any Romans around to practice my conversational skills and dinner habits!

and whats wrong with a little job security? morons for you , bad guys for me! its all good!...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 74 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 17, 2006, 20:42:

I like that idea "if he is so smart and talented he can figure out a legal way to return..."

I think you make an incisive point. I would extend this idea and make it a massive reality show. It'd go something like this: Everyone gets deported. Citizen or no citizen, everyone. Stripped of passports and birth certificates, left to hang in either Juarez or Toronto. Their challenge is to get back in, legally. Extra points if they make it without using Latin. The smarties (or maybe the criminals..? Hmmm...) would make it, the idiots won't. Social self-selection. It'd suck for me (no idiots), but apparently would work for you (bad guys).

Just one cent more.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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BiNatBoy says on Apr 18, 2006, 17:49:

King for a Day Extenuating circumstances occur in about every situation. In the case of Padilla and others like him, I'd have to say that his situation is/was beyond his control. Yes, I am an advocate for the deportation of illegals, but the situation is not black and white and thats what makes the question so sticky. Made "King for a day", Id first get rid of all those with criminal records- bang! your on a boat! Next, all those on the welfare roles...move over people on the boat..more joining you!. People like Padilla I would have evaluated on a case by case basis. The point of the exercise is to examine intent. For kids that came over as pre-teens through no doing of their own and are demonstrating the ability to be productive contributing americans, then they can stay. If your rotten little ass is in a gang...Ships a'sailing baby...get on it.

Fortunately for Mr.Padilla living in UK is not that bad!

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Dolfi says on Apr 19, 2006, 00:53:

I know it´s a different matter but it is somehow strange to read how all these americans who are so eager to get their colombian girlsfriends to the USA want the mexcians kicked out.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Apr 19, 2006, 05:23:

Oh No, Mr Bill!!! Please, no more people thinking that Mexicans are the only immigrants in the US..I just want the illegals, regardless of nationality, country, or planet they are from ("aliens"), to fall in behind the honest and law abiding people who are complying with US laws to enter the US. Wouldnt you object to someone cutting in line when you have been waiting such a long time?..that way we can try to control the MS13 gangfucks, narcodealers, and pedophiles, etc from entering illegaly to move in next door to your house.

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 72 días.....

"Ignorance is a Weapon of Mass Destruction..."

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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lpdiver says on May 10, 2006, 22:53:

oops...40 % 0f the illegals are people who came here legally and have been unable to navigate the complexities of the immigrations system. That is the first area that need repair.

After that I would address employers using them and they would be deported along with anyone who was working for them illegally.

T

"cook some rice!"

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mcraig says on Jul 31, 2006, 17:31:

Your poiint is we should allow citizens to over run our country take more than they give an make all the middle class poor? There is 6.5 billion people in this world that probaly want to come to some western country an have freedom. You pay for them I am not going to .

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chrispej says on Jul 31, 2006, 20:51:

I'm lovin it Love your posts.

Salsa on, dude!

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mcraig says on Aug 1, 2006, 22:34:

The policiies are are already being written by the states an the federal goverment will follow as soon as elections are over in November. States are writing laws cutting off state aid , state healthcare , an going after companies that hire illegal, going after landlords that rent to illegals. The States arent waiting for the federal goverment. The process on the federal goverment has already started by putting six thousand troops at the border an the funding for the fences will be passed before the elections in November becasuse all the politicians want to say they voted for border security. Then after we shut down the border you go after the estimated 20 million that are in the country illegally. I dont want to hear any of the crying neither this IS Mexico's fault or any country that illegals are coming from. These countries need to build economies starting with Mexico an all the billions of dollars they have taken from the IMF an the help countries have given them. They have no excuse to still be running a goverment that is crooked an running economic policies that doesnt create jobs. An as far as the illegals go they have had every opportunity while there here to go become a citizen instead they have not made the effort.

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mcraig says on Aug 5, 2006, 21:53:

Felons In Mexico it is a felony for an american to overstay in the country an if they are caught stuck directly in jail. So again do you want reaccess your statement that its bush's fault? Mexico has had this law on the books for alot longer than bush has been president.

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mcraig says on Aug 5, 2006, 21:55:

constitution requires your legal citizen of the USA so maybe if you want to reference the constitution you need to read it first.

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. says on Aug 12, 2006, 14:41:

Miguel_Clavo.. Where are you from? where are your parents from? or your gran parents? where do you live now?

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goin_south says on Jul 8, 2007, 20:46:

Someone (not from pbh) sent me this quote today, from The Ex-President Roosevelt:

THE PROBLEM WE HAVE PRESENTLY IS THE MEXICANS COMING IN ILLEGALLY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE WORD "ASSIMILATE" MEANS. THEY ARE HERE SOLELY TO MAKE MONEY TO SEND BACK TO MEXICO. THEY DON'T GIVE A DAM ABOUT BEING AMERICAN. THIS SITUATION IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME THROUGH ELLIS ISLAND - THEY WANTED TO BECOME U.S. CITIZENS!!!!

I simply thought it interesting, coming from so far back in time.
Otherwise, No comment.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Jul 10, 2007, 21:37:

or.... THE RAPING OF AMERICA... COME HERE... AND SEND THE AMERICAN BUCKS BACK TO ..... the rest of the world.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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