Catching the train in Colombia

miamimike says on Dec 21, 2007, 07:39:

Yes. Tourust Train from Bogota to Zipaquira! Am not sure, but it may run only Sat&Sun these days. Pictures below:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=431743

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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kalder says on Dec 21, 2007, 08:46:

Nice photos Mike. Cheers.

That locomotive is one beautiful piece of engineering.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kalder says on Dec 21, 2007, 09:53:

I agree. Trains: efficient, environmentally friendly and, er, nice.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 21, 2007, 10:03:

One of the several things I really loved about Germany was the efficient train system. If they had something like that in Colombia - wow. There is something about riding in a train that is cool. I can't find the right adjectives, so "cool" will have to suffice for now.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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El Piloto says on Dec 21, 2007, 11:42:

I thought the old railroad remnants scattered around Medellin were pretty cool. Don't know why but I've always been fascinated by abandoned railroad rights of way. Looks like there was a huge RR yard near Bello at one time - abandoned old rolling stock and a steam locomotive, remnants of track and a roundhouse, etc. still visible just west of the Metro line (near Bello station if I recall). Also can see an abandoned RR platform below the pedestrian bridge that connects Caribe metro station to the Terminal Norte.

And I agree b.t.w. that Germany's ICE trains are great.

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El Piloto says on Dec 21, 2007, 11:45:

Oh and I think I read somewhere there was a new, modern rail line built up on the Guajira Peninsula for freight trains taking coal from the mines to port.

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Gator says on Dec 21, 2007, 14:56:

Two choices, the Sabana Train that runs from Bogota to Zipaquira. The train from Cali, called theRuta Café y Azúcar, offers more in the way of destinations and options. The train runs from the central station – located alongside the Bus Terminal in downtown Cali to Buga, La Tebaida, Cumbre and also offers a “rumbero� option. This is a party train that leaves at 8pm and returns to the city at 3am having done a large loop with carriages full of liquored riders and a papayera band that plays its way through the carriages and that gets as drunk as the riders. Interested in times and costs? Try here; : www.trenturisticocafeyazucar.com all in Spanish of course.

If you plan on this trip be sure and call ahead to make sure it's running on that day.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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miamimike says on Dec 21, 2007, 17:03:

Most other Countries(Like our main competitor CHINA) are increasing Trackage Bigtime where here in the USA our passenger Rail Budget has been slashed to the bone this Year. I cannot understand the Adminstrations' Mentality to lose this competitive edge. Europe, China going all out and we cut back:(

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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adrimm says on Dec 21, 2007, 21:04:

So they have the ROWs and routes... that's the biggest cost of rail in a mountainous country...

Installing new track is expensive, but not compared to building the flats, blasting hills, etc. Imagine if they could toss a bit of money into tunnels, install new track and have some half decent speeds on the trains? It could take travel to a new level for locals and help make Colombia a real destination for visitors.

A smooth winding climb with time in tunnels alternating with time in the changing landscape over dizzyingly tall trestles, then a ride through the gentle plains of paramo-land, and a smooth descent back to the warmer low-lands.

Train in Switzerland



Scenery in Colombia:

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bartolo_colon says on Dec 21, 2007, 23:14:

I worked as a brakeman and conductor up here in Alaska for 10 years before getting hurt, the problem with passenger trains is they dont make money. We run all kinds of passenger trains in the summer, they accounted for about 2-3% of revenue, but 50% of capital expenditure. Bulk commodities make money. Passenger trains are just a bonus. That is why amtrak is a mess, and the UP and BNSF are making big bucks. That is why the only railroads getting investment in Colombia, are hauling coal. They can make a little money hauling bulk foods, coffee etc., but the real money is in agregate, chemicals, intermodal and petroleum. Additionaly, without heavy government subsidy, any start up railroad will fail. Building right of way in Alaska costs about 6 million dollars a mile. The terrain and environment here is extreme, and in Colombia to say it is challenging is an understatement. To bring the ROW's up to par, buy modern equipment, maintenance, training, facilities, graft, corruption blah blah, it will never work, unless they discover bulk commodities on the scale of Chile, Australia or the States.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

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adrimm says on Dec 22, 2007, 01:16:

Well would be ridiculous to assume that passenger service would be the only thing on the tracks.,, but even then, Colombia has a leg up over North America on a captive pool of potential riders since car ownership rates are still relatovely low and flying is too expensive.

Subsidy: without a doubt it would be essential, but maybe just for initial costs... I can see the government getting into the game by shifting the money that would otherwise be spent on road expansion into rail.. Much of Europe (even around the Alps, has more rail than roads or at least is nearly on par), it's cultural - people there take the train to get around. Colombia still has a chance to develop that mentality.

Also keep in mind that international development agencies might want to get into the funding game. What screams feel-good publicity more than "sustainable development" in a "developing" country.. also, looking on the the longterm, while capital investments are higher to start, I think that over the course of it's life rail is more affordable than roads that have to be maintained...consider road costs involve 1) a bigger ROW, and then 2) Maintained resurfaced every 10 - 16 years. years, And the change that is occuring in Colombia,,,people there are definitely getting into mobility - one lane in each direction between major cities won't be enough for much longer.

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miamimike says on Dec 22, 2007, 04:20:

Amtrak is "Mess" financially only because they do not receive the same fair subsidy as Roads receive. Look at the Federal Tax Money Earmarked for Highway/interstate projects in the USA. It has only succeded in clogging the Highways with more cars(wasting a lot of Fuel stalled for hours in creeping traffic jams) and in the case of South Florida, into a "Stop and Go" Nightmare. Anyone traveling or living here can vouch for the Mess on South Florida's I-95, Palmetto Expressway and the Florida Turnpike during Daytime Rush hours. I think with Cost of Gas these days and the recently increased CAFE Fuel Bill passed a few days ago, the Politicians are finally getting the Idea that Moving people by Train/Express Bus routes are more viable alternatives. Here in South Florida, there simply isn't any more room for new highway construction or more Autos. Air, Rail and Bus travel is the only alternative. That is why Bogota's Trans Milenio Bus Concept is being studied here in Miami as Alternitive Mass Transit.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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static says on Dec 22, 2007, 07:58:

Over two million people live in Paris, and over 10 million live in the suburbs of Paris. How do they get around?
Oh yeah: Paris has an extensive metro and inter-urban railroad system. Wake up, America!

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Gator says on Dec 22, 2007, 08:39:

Mike I bet Tr-rail still travels at 50% capacity after what, 20 years

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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miamimike says on Dec 22, 2007, 08:58:

Gator-You aren't far off the Mark ! I believe in a recent Miami Herald Column, it stated that Ridership was up like 20% since the Fuel Prices creeped back up to the $3/Gal Range. The Tri Rail cars are fuller then before but not jam packed as you might expect in this day of High Gas Prices. Last time I took it to West Palm Beach Beach, I used the Metro Bus,from my Condo at 123&Biscayne, loaded my Bicycle onto it(bus), I was left off a block away from the Hialeah Tri rail station upon where I put myself and Bike on the tri rail. Upon reaching WPB, I biked to the Business I had to go to and did the same in reverse on my Return. I did it as a Test and it worked perfectly. Best of All now, NOT having to drive my Car on I-95!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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dwmte7 says on Dec 22, 2007, 11:01:

yeah, kalder...it's the old medellin, cartegena line...like the others, all but extinct. however, theres a small track running from around bello to somewhere in the north. part of the original network.

interesting, when they shut down the rails/trolleys in the u.s., firestone and g.m. had a plan. they did the same thing in colombia, unfortunately, they didn't have a plan. talk about a country truly in need of a vast rail network. unfortunately, as is so often the case, corruption corrodes reason, and all is usually lost. the planners in the past, in colombia, like so many today, are without a plan. their pocket is as far as their vision goes. pity. peaple who plan are really rare...where ever they may live. as a planner needs get himself/herself out of the way and not be the first consideration. ghandi is a good model of a planner. he got the fuck outta the way, and nonviolently, changed the course of history india and britain.

dwmte

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Wastelandlive says on Dec 22, 2007, 20:05:

Those of you with experience in the industry commenting on the economics of railways certainly sound like you know what you are talking about.

But I can't believe nobody has mentioned security. Colombia struggles - at great expense - to keep the guerilla from blowing up it's oil pipeline. And it doesn't always win.

How easy is it to derail a train? Pull up some track? How much damage can the guerilla inflict on a railway vs a road? That's just a great, big, juicy target...

I wouldn't invest in rail, either, until the political problem is solved.
______________________

Colombia aside, I'm a big fan of rail too. Do you guys know that Amtrack's most profitable line is the auto train that runs between Orlando and Washington DC? You can load on your car, ride through the night, enjoy dinner, a movie, and breakfast, and cut out a huge chunk of the Eastern seaboard... I've used it three times now.

But it's only there... I suppose because it can service the snowbirds moving between the Northeast and Florida.

I wish there was more service. And I think that there is a good argument that it need not be profitable. It's infrastructure. Our taxes go to maintain highways... we don't expect a profit from them. But we know that we need them for commerce and transportation... why is rail different? ESPECIALLY as congestion and environmental concerns grow...

Why not jack up the gas tax, and use the revenue to subsidy rail service? I'd vote for that.

Wasteland

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adrimm says on Dec 22, 2007, 23:42:

Waste,

I think inc gas tax would be great, but how about just ignoring public funding of interstate highways for a year (except essential maintenance) and toss the money into rail? I totally agree with Mike that governments give roads in North America an undue portion of transportation funding.


About Security: Well, you can blow up a road too or trigger a landslide over one too.. they'd just have to apply the same security to rail ROWs as they have the road ROWs. You know, the soldiers posted every few kms.

Security-wise tho I agree, It's really a catch-22 between transportation and the problems Colombia has.. Part of the breeding ground that spawned the guerilla in the first place is the geography of Colombia that isolates many small communities, and individual families that live off of horse-trails in the middle of nowhere. Aside from not having had essential services for so long in these small towns, the isolation and lack of adequete fast transportation limits opportunities tp even access them elsewhere. I was stunned when paving the road and building proper bridges between my family's home village and Bucaramanga cut travel time from 3 hours to 45 minutes. Widening a horse trail that goes up into the countryside suddenly lets the campesinos get into town on motorbike in minutes.

Now with the paved road, and gravel-road horse-trail replacement, Suddenly all of the cottage dairy industry in the town is growing (it's easier to get product to market), and even those who don't live in the village can get into town to work or study.

It is essential for stability in the country that these far flung places get the services they need or at least access to them - and improving transportation connections is the first step.

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bartolo_colon says on Dec 23, 2007, 02:46:

Good point wasteland. It is so easy to sabotage a train its ridiculous. I think this was a problem in the past in Colombia. You dont have to blow anything up, you can put a train on the ground very very easily with just a few track spikes, or throwing a switch ( I am not going to go in to any details) derail the right train in the middle of a city, and 9/11 would look like kid stuff. Trains haul nasty stuff. We derailed pulling out of a siding, stacked up 15 cars of jet A and 3 locomotives 8 years ago, the area is still contaminated to this day (search gold creek derailment). You derail a train hauling thousands of tons of sulpheric acid or chlorine in an urban area....not good. They might have to have a track patrol ahead of every train.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

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miamimike says on Dec 23, 2007, 13:36:

Transporting Bulk cargo via a Train(liquid or otherwise) is still a better option then having hordes of 18 wheelers on the Highways hauling this dangerous Cargo. We've had a few 18 Wheeler Tanker (gas)Fires on I-95 here in South Florida and its not a pretty sight. Fatalities were incured with these Tanker Fires, also the Fire was so intense it melted a large portion of the Asphalt highway and the area was closed completely until a repair could be made. At least with Trains, in a lot of cases(NOT all) the cargo passes through lightly populated areas. Of course, Conrail, UP have to pass through some cities so it isn't completely without risk. No Bulk Cargo transportion is 100% risk free. Look at the the large LNG(liquid natural gas) Ships, talk about a potential for a massive explosion. There simply isn't a better alternative for right now so they located the Loading&Unloading Facilities offshore quite a distance from any sizeable populations. In many cases, these Train Derailments are caused by POOR track Maintenence, something the Government has to enforce better and inspect more often for safety. Sadly, Safety inspections, be it FDA(drugs) Consumer(chinese lead paint in toys) or Rail, airline Safety, has not been a strong point of this Current washington administration. Hopefully this will change in Jan 2009,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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adrimm says on Dec 23, 2007, 13:48:

Yes, considering driving habits in Colombia, I think it would be far safer to have dangerous items transported on rail.

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Gator says on Dec 23, 2007, 19:17:

Great Ideal for Colombia-Now! If someone would just level all the mountains.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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dwmte7 says on Dec 24, 2007, 17:32:

interesting story about railroads....a hometown (fresno,ca) buddy of mine, used to be the v.p. of southern pacific...something doing with rail/track layout and routing. well there wasn't a chance of him making the presidency of s.p, so when the govt of india started their new north south rail route, they approached s.p and offered the leadership to them. which, in turn, southern pacific offered to my friend, wayne martin (no relation).

now picture this, wayne's a good ole boy, and outside of visiting some relatives in the show me state, he's never been anywhere, a stay at home country boy. well, without knowing a thing about india, he loads up wife, three kids and moves to someplace in india. the govt had rented him some maharaja's palace up on a hill outside of some city and he and his family land, go across india and drive up through the mtns to this palace. when they get up to this walled estate, he points out to his driver a dead body laying by the side of the road, up by the gates...then asks the driver, "that the hell is that?" "that be being a dead body sahib" replies the driver. "well what the hell's it doing on the side of the road outside my house?" "well, sahib, nobody be wanting that body."

well, wayne said that damn body laid their over a week til the vultures finished with it. nice opening to folks who didn't know squat about the REAL world.

dwmte

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bartolo_colon says on Dec 25, 2007, 23:41:

dwmte7, you just set off a light bulb in my brain. I worked maintenance of way, transportation, and passenger service as a railroader. Been all over hell and back out in the REAL world. Maybe I could consult down in Colombia, help build a rail network, and satisfy my unhealthy fascination with prepagos all in one fell swoop.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

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