Cannabis and young people in Colombia

morphus says on Feb 11, 2005, 02:41:

i wonder how they feel about the glue baggers?

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Miguel says on Feb 11, 2005, 02:46:

Suerte con su hijo... My girlfriend, her family, and my friends in Colombia really are anti-drug. As posted here before, drug use among Colombians is nothing compared to the US or Europe.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 03:45:

When I told my son about taking him to Colombia I didn't mean it as a punishement, but because I think in Colombia we still have moral values and we respect our families more. some Teenager in there know how much drug is affecting our country,there adverts in Tv telling them the danger of drugs. and they know that in Colombia you have to study and work hard to have a decent live. But here in England they think that the goverment owed them, so some of them finish high school and live on benefits. no wonder they have the highest rates of young pregnacies in Europe. My husband sometimes works in Plymouth and he said the amount of drogadicts that are in methanol and the street full of this kids smoking, he said the young culture in England is going downhill.

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SiempreHero says on Feb 11, 2005, 05:09:

Raising your Son in Colombia Kat,
I agree with you. I would love to raise my son in Colombia too. I will take the security risks over the bad influences any day. Kids in Colombia are normally focused on creative endevours or getting a degree so that they can make money. Just the opposite of what i see in the states. Even the kids that i know that did smoke pot in colombia did it with a different perspective. IE it was just a party time thing, not something they did day and night and it did not rule thier lives. Good luck

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kernow62 says on Feb 11, 2005, 05:31:

Kat1 you didn't mention the chronic problem in the UK with binge drinking. It sickens me to see the youth treating themselves and others and the property of others in such a way.

Each time I return home to the UK for a visit it seems to be worse.

You mentioned Herford in another post, I used to live in a beautiful little village there called Ledbury. Haven't been back to Ledbury for ages.

I think from a youth culture standpoint Colombia is a far safer bet than the UK.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 05:37:

Thank siempreHero
Is something that I am thinking about and is true what you said "Kids in Colombia are normally focused on creative endevours or getting a degree so that they can make money". And my !daughter! she is only 12 said how much kids in Colombia take care of their appearance and how they all thinking on going to Universities or doing a technical career.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 05:40:

Kernow ledbury is no far from where I live but is a lot of drugs there too , and a lot of car crime. pity because is a very pretty town. and about the binge drinking yes is a big problem here in the UK it cost the british taxpayer a huge amount of money and now they Thinking to open the pubs longer hours to see if this stop uhm.

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michaelz says on Feb 11, 2005, 05:49:

drug policy The hypocrisy concerning drugs continues to astound me. Both within and without the USA, the entire drug policy is senseless, particularly with respect to pot.

Harmfulness - Both cigarettes and alcohol are far more harmful than pot. Look at the statistics on cigarette and alcohol related deaths and compare them to pot related deaths. It’s not even close. Cigarettes alone kill over 400,000 people a year. Alcohol is worse in many ways. Each year, dozens of peoples literally drink themselves to death, in a single sitting. This is a big problem on college campuses. How many people have ever sat down and smoked a fatal dose of pot? Its impossible - you would just pass out.

“Gateway Drugs� - The real gateway drugs are cigarettes, and alcohol. The usual progression for most underage kids is cigarettes, then maybe alcohol, then maybe pot, and then maybe hard stuff. However, kids can stop anywhere along this path. If pot should be illegal because it leads to harder stuff, why shouldn’t cigarettes and alcohol be illegal for the same reason?

Aggression - Alcohol makes some people crazy. Pot rarely or never does. True stories about men who get drunk and beat or even kill) their wives are legion. How many potheads do this (unless they are also drunk)? They don't. They just chill out.

Don’t get me wrong, pot is not good for you. However, it is far more benign than tobacco or alcohol.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:08:

I am not saying that alcohol and cigarettes are good, I will hate my son smoking or getting drunk I don't smoke neither my husband and I am the only in the house that drinks alcohol(just wine) in moderation of course because my husband doesn't drink. So he knows that we no approved of this things. you said "The usual progression for most underage kids is cigarettes, then maybe alcohol, then maybe pot, and then maybe the hard stuff" exactly that's what I am trying to stop POT-HARD STUFF. I think is more difficult to come out of drugs than cigarettes and alcohol.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:20:

What I trying to say in my post is that in Colombia young people are more focused on their lives on what they want to be more than the kids here in England. They still respect the parents, and they still a bit scare of them,They know that if they are under their parent roof they have to follow rules because is not better out there. which in certain way is good. Of course there are drugadicts in Colombia I know that. I don't agree with a teenager drinking or smoking doesn't matter how safe people think is it.But here in the uk They think is all right "they are just experiment" ha! Call me all fashion

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michaelz says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:23:

comparative drugs Gringo - I never said pot was good for you, only that is less bad than other, legal drugs like tobacco or alcohol.

Kat1 - you are dead wrong about cigarettes being easier to kick than pot. Giving up tobacco was the hardest thing I ever did. A friend of mine has been diagnosed with chronic emphysema and has to use an inhaler, but still can't give up cigs. According to scientific studies, gram for gram, nicotine is more addictive than heroin.

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gabo says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:27:

Come on now, what year are we in? There is nothing wrong with cannabis in its natural wild plant form. The best and brightest in the united states have smoked por smoke cannabis, as do the poor and downtrodden. Its not something to be worried about. I'd be more worried about your sons meat and sugar intake, cigarettes and alcohol, the last thing to worry about is cannabis. Its a good thing you need to try it before you die mommy.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:38:

Ok michael you maybe right so you seee this stuff are bad for you but here in England they have this relax actitud about drugs in general. I think here in England kids got it easy they don't know what is hard work. even the underpriviliges have playstation,tv in their room and food everyday. and they can't be bother to study because they know that living on benefits in better than working. Did you know that there was a woman claiming £37.000th in benefits a year she was earning more than an NHS doctor. plus free house.so this is what they are teaching their kids here, there is this kind of yob culture. This is no the England that we Colombian's we used to know. There is no dicipline in the schools, kids have more powers than teachers. I wouldn't be a teacher here for nothing in the world, you can't say anything.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 06:42:

Gabo
"Its a good thing you need to try it before you die mommy". You know why I don't try it because I have an addictive personality and I am scared I get hook on it them the same with alcohol and cigarettes and ending up wanting more and more. Well done the people that tried and left it GOOD FOR THEM. But shall I take the chance with my son? I don't think so

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vladimiro says on Feb 11, 2005, 08:04:

Pot I'd be more worried about my kid drinking because its a far stronger drug than marijuana - its the real gateway drug that leads to other drugs, violence, sex, etc.... In my opinion, the only serious drawback to marijuana use is that it makes one extrememly lazy and apathetic.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 11, 2005, 08:17:

I can't believe some of these posts. I must agree with michaelz - good post, dude! But the rest of you guys acting as though Colombia is so pristine compared to the US. When I am in Medellin, I see and smell marijuana constantly on the streets. It amazes me along with the numbers of young huffers. You just don't see that in San Antonio - people smoking marijuana openly - they would get their asses busted by the cops. In Colombia it's no big deal.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 09:23:

I don't know about the use of cocaine in Colombia or the States, but I think there's something that doesn't compute there. The youngsters in Colombia simply can't afford recreational drugs in the same extent than kids in US or Europe.
Also, UC's statement about the smell of marihuana that pervades the ambiente in Colombia...I certainly haven't experienced that either. Granted, I don't hang out in the places where people would be doing any kind of drugs, yet I do talk with a lot of people with kids and haven't heard any being drug users. Making a blanket statement like that you'd have to be pretty sure of your stuff, and I would rather be inclined to believe like kat that it's not that common in Colombia among youngsters.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 11, 2005, 09:38:

Let's put it this way, Desi. Whenever my wife and I go out on the street in Medellin, at some point, we will smell marijuana. I will even ask her, Hey is that marijuana we're smelling? She will respond, yeah as though it was a normal occurrence. Also what makes you think you need to have money to get mary jane? It's quite easy to grow, indoors or out. No, MJ doesn't discriminate between rich and poor.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 09:54:

I've never seen a cannabis plant, except in pictures. I know it grows wild in Colombia, but I guess you have to be with certain type of people to see it; people that'd be interested to show you or take you to places where it goes. I've never been a backpacker or done more than occasional short day trips out in the wilds. None of the people I know have it growing in pots on their back patios.
I recognize the smell, though. I smelled it once, many years ago in a movie theater in Cali and the smell is easy to tell. The shopping centers and malls, the downtown business streets, the avenida sexta area in the north of Cali, the residencial (strata 4-5) neighborhoods in Cali do not have the smell of marijuana wafting around in the air.

Tinto, I thought that would be your next argument, but still, I have my serious doubts about those statistics, based only and entirely on my own observations in Colombia.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 10:04:

When I was growing up in Colombia I half friends that took it but, they were older, but in my Barrio I hardly new anyone I used to play a lot in the streets and no one of my friends then. talk about, offered about no even cigarettes.I know as I said before there are drug users in Colombia but no as common as here. AND the parents are no as tolerable as the British ones. I bet this kids you see UC smoking in the street are doing it in secret but if the parents get to find out they are dead. and about smelling marihuana on the street of medallo are sure you weren't smelling opium the perfume? hehe is very similar.By the way I know what a marihuana plant looks like when I was a teenager my dad used to be head of emigration and he brough one that he confiscated at the airport, a tiny one but sadly it died. or my dad killed it.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 11, 2005, 10:57:

Let's put it this way. I have enough personal experience to recognize weed when I smell it. What is it that people want to think Colombia is some pristine culture and the US is a decadent one? My experience would lead me to think the reverse is true even though I do not think that. Like I said, it seems that everyone in Colombia has some past history of drug use even if it was only one time or a few times. I can't say that about the people that I know here. You ought to hear the stories that my wife tells me which I am not at liberty to repeat. She is as straight a person as I have ever met. She does not use drugs of any kind but based on her stories I would say the drug culture permeates Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:18:

next time anyone is in COL.. just go up to a cigarette vendor and ask them for some 'pot', they'll get for you. That's how accessible it is in COL. By that logic, if cigarett vendor on the street have easy access, somebody must be buying the stuff. I would think the young, college kids in COL use it as much as young, college kids in the US.

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ShazCas says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:25:

Don't worry Kat, it must be difficult having teenage children because when they reach that age they stop listening to their parents and start listening to their friends - look at your son's friends - are they ok? As a teenager, what his peers think will be more important for him than what you say. You can only keep the door open between you two and ensure that he feels he can always tell you anything. Then when he's 20 or so he'll come out the other end of that difficult time of life. It's normal for intelligent, inquisitive young people to experiment with drugs, and as the others have said, gange is much less detrimental than alcohol and cigarettes. He'll probably not become addicted to anything, unless he is very unhappy as a person and has no hobbies or interests and other things to fill his time. And he obviously feels he can tell you which is great. He'll probably go through a party phase and then he'll probably get bored of it. I know people who have experiemented a bit with different drugs and who have postgraduate diplomas, good careers and happy lives. But I understand your worry, there are a lot of very bad kids in the UK and it's so hard for a teenager these days. But as long as he feels he can fully confide in you, it'll be okay I'm sure.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:28:

Well I have to put my Question in a different way because I think nobody can't get it I KNOW THAT THERE ARE DRUG USERS IN COLOMBIA and that is easy to get it, I know that. but ARE the parents as tolerable as the British one or USA. I like to know from Colombian parents and Foreigners one. Because as far as i concerned many Colombian parents are dead againts it.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:39:

I'm a parent and even if I'm not Colombian I know that most families are adamant about the use of drugs in Colombia. There's a very strong feeling there about people who use drugs, and it's not tolerated in cohesive families. There's not only a moral issue but also a social one, since youngsters who use drugs are frowned upon and considered "lower class".

I live in Sweden, as you know, and the drug culture here is not quite the same as in England. I've never had to worry too much about the drug issue, because most kids here come into contact with drugs only very sporadically. I'm sure my kids have smoked pot (hashis, here) once or twice; I also know that it's not part of the party culture here. I'm more worried about the excessive beer drinking that most kids seem to be dedicated to.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:39:

Geez, Kat, most American parents are dead set against it. I have 5 teenagers. It is important to know who their friends are as well as their parents. I don't keep them prisoners but I make sure that our house is a good place for them to hang out so I know what they are doing and who they are with. I agree with what ShazCas said above as well - in the long run your personal relationship with your son and the values that you have instilled in him will matter most.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 11, 2005, 11:55:

Pot in Colombia I think moving to Colombia to get away from pot would be like moving to Saudi Arabia to get away from the desert. I see pot being smoked fairly openly in Bogota by everyone from construction workers on break (SCARY!) to teenagers having a good time in the park.

Personally, since you're asking for advice about how to deal with your kid, I say focus on having an open and constructive relationship with him so you can influence (but not control) his choices in life. Forbidding things only makes them more attractive.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 12:07:

and even if I'm not Colombian I know that most families are adamant about the use of drugs in Colombia. There's a very strong feeling there about people who use drugs, and it's not tolerated in cohesive families. There's not only a moral issue but also a social one, since youngsters who use drugs are frowned upon and considered "lower class".
Desi you hit the nail on the spot that's what I was trying to say.

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Roberto99 says on Feb 11, 2005, 12:33:

Marijuana was grown in the US Marijuana cultivation began in the United States around 1600 with the Jamestown settlers, who began growing the cannabis sativa or hemp plant for its unusually strong fiber that was used to make rope, sails, and clothing.
Until after the Civil War, marijuana was a source of major revenue for the United States. During the 19th century marijuana plantations flourished in Mississippi, Georgia, California, South Carolina, Nebraska, New York, and Kentucky.
Also during this period, smoking hashish, a stronger preparation of marijuana derived from the dried resin of the plant, was popular throughout France and to a lesser degree in the US.

Between 1850 and 1937 marijuana was widely used throughout United States as a medicinal drug and could easily be purchased in pharmacies and general stores. Recreational use was limited in the US until after the Mexican Revolution of 1910, when an influx of Mexican immigrants introduced the habit.

The Volstead Act of 1920, which raised the price of alcohol in the United States, positioned marijuana as an attractive alternative and led to an increase in use of the drug.
"Tea pads," where a person could purchase marijuana for 25 cents or less, began appearing in cities across the United States, particularly as part of the black "hepster" jazz culture.

By 1930 it was reported that there were at least 500 of these "tea pads" in New York City alone. During the Great Depression as unemployment increased, resentment and fear of the Mexican immigrants became connected to marijuana use.
Numerous research studies linked marijuana use by lower class communities with crime and violence.
In 1937, Congress passed the Marijuana Tax Act which criminalized the drug. From 1951 to 1956 stricter sentencing laws set mandatory minimum sentences for drug-related offenses. In the 1950s the beatniks appropriated the use of marijuana from the black hepsters and the drug moved into middle-class white America in the 1960s.

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juanalejo says on Feb 11, 2005, 17:02:

Doing drugs Regardless of what people say, I have lived in the US and in the UK and while to date do not have one friend, not one that I know does or has done marijuana much less anything else here in Colombia, I was absolutely amazed to see how many people did marijuana and cocaine both in the US and the UK. My nephews and nieces who are around 17 - 18 here in Colombia come back with stories about their schoolmates drinking and smoking cigarretes, when I ask about marijuana they say they do not know of any but suspect of a few. My nephew and niece in Houston who are 15 - 16 come back with stories of their schoolmates doing marijuana and if I ask of something more they say they are suspicious of quite a few. I am not saying either that drugs are not available in Colombia of course they are, but why is it so difficult to understand for some that for most of us Colombians one of the first culture shocks (especially from those of us who studied in the US or the UK) is the ammount of people who do drugs and how open society is to the use of it.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 11, 2005, 17:18:

Culture Shock Somehow I don't think Elmo probably suffered the culture shock of discovering rampant drug use in the states after leaving sheltered and innocent Colombia.

My personal experience is as follows: People who don't or haven't done drugs think that most people (regardless of country) don't. People who do, or have, think that most people do.

I live in a very upper class part of Bogota and see pot being openly smoked in the street or parks probably about once a week. So it can't be simply a "low class" thing to do.

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juanalejo says on Feb 11, 2005, 17:19:

Exactly That is exactly what I am saying, in my highschool, in university never saw it, got to the US for a semester and it was around in every party, then went back to the US for a masters degree and saw it every where, lived sometime in London working and was even offered cocaine in a mirror like in the movies. For most of us Colombians it is a culture shock. Here I work, I go out I do not see it, I know it must be around be you simply do not see it.

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juanalejo says on Feb 11, 2005, 18:00:

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/world_drug_report.html According to the document the annual prevalence of abuse as percentage of the population aged 15-64 goes as follows:

Country US UK Colombia
Opiates 0.6% 0.7% 0.2%
Cocaine 2.5% 2.1% 1.6%
Cannabis 11% 10.6% 4.3%

I think the most important statistic here in reference to the original post in the difference in marijuana use, hence probably why it is so much more notable in the US and Europe.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2005, 18:06:

But did you see the figures for marijuana in Australia and some of the Caribbean Islands? And the opiates in Iran... So much for the stereotypes about the West and our Hedonistic ways (see Iran) and that pot makes you mild (Australians are supposed to love to fight). ;-)





I look forward to the next update. The comparisons are not apples to apples because some countries measure different age groups and some of the data is from different years. Over time, maybe they will all begin reporting in a similar pattern.



Judging from news accounts in the U.S., I think crystal meth and pain killer abuse will be up and cocaine will continue its more or less flat or slight downtrend.

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juanalejo says on Feb 11, 2005, 18:10:

For Colombia´s sake lets hope that trend continues. And yes quite some marijuana around in some countries also in Africa.

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Lionheart says on Feb 11, 2005, 19:45:

prescription drug abuse Most statistics ignore this growing area of recreational drugs. I read a statistic/report on the abuse of prescription drugs in New England last year, and they surpassed all other drugs added up. Maine was called prescription drug capitol of the world.

Drug testing has reduced the use of marijuana for those being tested. Often enough people still get caught, stay clean for awhile, test again, work again, till next time. But in many jobs you don't get tested. And often enough prescription drugs move in instead, often supported by doctors just getting rid of the symptoms, but they don't care about the cause. I see very many office jobs with no tests at all, and the presence of marijuana on a daily basis, from the lowest level to the highest management level.

I can imagine the general lifestyle is a big factor, the missing social abilities I notice in the USA are probably a big part of the drug usage.

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ShazCas says on Feb 12, 2005, 02:14:

Being adamant Kat, I think you're right about Colombian parents being more adamant about drug use - they are "dead against it" like most British parents are. The thing is, it doesn't matter how much you say "you're not allowed", "I'm dead against it", "I put my foot down" or "It's bad and I'll be really angry if you do it" because teenagers don't listen to that, in Colombia or in the UK. You can be as adamant and against it as you want, but at the end of the day, if your kid feels he really has something to rebel against, then it could make matters worse, whereas while I and others have said before, if your kid feels he can come and talk to you at any time about anything, then you stand a much better chance of getting through the "troublesome teens" without a problem. It sounds like he can anyway, which is good.

As for drug use, kids who have passions, interests and hobbies to keep them occupied seem to be much less likely to get caught in the trap of taking drugs every weekend. They have better things to do. If a kid is stable and happy, isn't full of supressed anger, then they'll be stable and mature enough to make the right decisions. The thing is, teenagers aren't stupid, as you know, so just saying "it's bad" won't work. They need to know exactly why it's bad and exactly what it does to their body. Unfortunately even then, teenagers sometimes don't worry about abusing their body as they think they're invincible, but I think it helps to educate them properly about drugs.

The fact that parents come down harder on their kids in Colombia doesn't make them any less like to take an e at a rave in Chia or smoke dope at the weekends, so it doesn't matter how much their parents say they'll punish them, etc. It just gives them a reason to keep secrets from their parents who they feel they can't confide in and puts them in more danger because they can't turn to an adult that loves them when they really need them.

Sorry if I'm not telling you what you want to hear.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 12, 2005, 02:37:

it was me who said "adamant" :) but no matter. Shaz, you don't know how many times my daughter has said to me that she is so happy that I put my foot down on drug issue, that I wasn't wishy-washy, that I said in no unclear terms that even if I can't physically stop her from taking drugs, I will never accept, never agree. She says that young people need clear-cut guidelines. She said that it was the deterrent that helped her to say "no" when she was offered drugs at parties, when her friends said "yes".

Of course, I have a very close relationship with my children and evenif there has been rebellion and different points of view there has never been a rupture in communication.

Your own example counts a lot as a parent. All children look up at their parents as role models when they are growing up. If you are drug-liberal it's more than probable that your kids will grow up be that way too.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 12, 2005, 02:54:

I agree with you Desi, My son knows my position in the drugs issue I don't like I won't never allowed it or accepted it if he goes and do it at least he knows what I think. and I think families play a role in how to raise a child too in Colombia we very close and we look out for another,cousins,uncles,grandparents you name it. Here families not here each to it's own.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 12, 2005, 08:20:

One of the continued slurs wh One of the slurs which is continually repeated on this site is that Colombian families are closer than North American ones. The only way that this is true is in an economic sense - Colombian families depend on one another as an economic safety net because there isn't any other. In every other sense they are just as close and spend a lot of time together. In small-town Texas everyone knows everyone else and every one helps one another and looks out for one another.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cremaster says on Feb 12, 2005, 08:29:

UC is right on obout the smell of MJ in Medellin. I oftern smell it when out and about.
It kind of reminds me of Canada, now that MJ has been ¨decriminalized¨ by the courts.

Patrick

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 12, 2005, 10:32:

family tightness I have no experience of small-town families in US and I'd suspect that the break-up in family ties and closeness is more a city thing and also because people have been moving around a lot and the true sense of community has been broken up in many "western" societies.

Colombian families are tight; sometimes too tight for my personal taste. I like a bit of space, a bit of privacy, a bit of being left alone sometimes. This everyday tightness is much more prevalent in Colombia compared with thie Swedish society, which may or may not compare with the US family structure in a given community.

It's not only about money, but also helping out a family member in emotional, affective or spiritual crisis. Here people would reach out to a family member at the times of trouble, to offer support, advice, companionship. Also to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, graduations, etc.etc:; otherwise the visiting is not that frequent and most dai-to-day, week-to-week contacts are carried by phone. In Colombia people drop by, visit, get together with family members without any previous notice, as a matter of routine, just because.

Colombian women especially are very tight with their mothers and sisters, there are no secrets that will not be shared between them. Privacy is almost non-existant and not expected either. There's a great mutual co-dependency in families, especially betweenthe females in the families.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 12, 2005, 15:52:

The things you describe about day-to-day connecting is quite true here in small-town Texas. And, yes, Desi, sometimes it can be a bit stifling. Everyone knows everyone else's business and it can be hard to find some privacy at times. There are absolutely no secrets! On the other hand, when you need help, they are there for you so you have to take the good with the bad. If you want anonymity you're better off in the city.

I must admit that my wife does not share everything with her sisters and mother. I am her Number 1 confidante and I like it that way.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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N2Aquatix says on Feb 16, 2005, 03:53:

Parenting About the drugs, it's easy to lie with statistics. They teach you that in college. The other thing you learn in college is how to smoke some weed and smoke it right!!! I'd have to agree that moving to Colombia to avoid drugs would be like moving to Saudi Arabia to get away from the desert. When it comes to drugs, no matter where you go, there you are. They're always availible in every country. It's up to parents to raise they're kids right so they make the right choices in life! Geez, when did parenting become a spectator sport??? A few lashes from my dad's belt would fix these issues quickly. ;-)

Jay

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dwmte says on Feb 17, 2005, 16:09:

oh boy!... i better not weigh in on this one or old gringo will take me out behind the barn.

i will say this. i don't know where all you folks hang out, but for the years i lived in poblado--amongst the rich and privilegded--drug use (pot and cocain) at social gatherings/parties/hanging out was as common as fleas on dogs.

we should give this 'colombian families are adamant against it' nonsense a break. even the president commented some years back in the early 90's, colombia doesn't have a drug problem, it has a drug dealer problem.

it is my experience living there for more than four years that just about everyone has or, periodically, does. period. now i don't want col.X to jump outta his chair and 'dress me down'...i feel about colombia as he does, quite dearly.

but truth be told, they were doing drugs in colombia before white eyes set foot on the americas. so at very least, let's be real.

once again i suggest the doubters re-visit the gold museum in bogota for historic perspective on this issue.

dw

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oldbongo says on Feb 17, 2005, 20:16:

yay!! ..yippie!! .... compadres...
the oldringo just returned from cartagena
with la commandante smiling from ear to ear.

the oldgringo is happy to report that elmo and he
had what might be fairly described as a blasto.
and as soon as he grows up and learns how,
he will post the photo to prove.

he is also happy to report that he turned on teachers,
doctors, friends, at least one policeman, and many beach mosquitos,
to his canadian cannabis.
how???....read ...GENESIS: 1: .29
it's better law than the one anslinger created for dupont.

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dwmte says on Feb 19, 2005, 16:23:

ya know, old gringo... i really thought i might catch hell for even opening my mouth on this thread...

but, age, as usual, signifying wisdom, gave way to compassion and spared me the trip behind the barn. sorry, boss, i just couldn't listen to anymore of the above without pitchin in a word or two...or three. then, like a flash from GOD...straight out of genesis...the WORD!! and the WORD WAS WITH GOD, along with the seed.

you know...all these years i've sought out the seedless. aint that a bitch. confused again.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 19, 2005, 16:29:

douglas I know that this is one subject that we have widely different opnions. While I don't want to doubt your testimony about the use of drugs in Colombia there is no way in hell I can agree with you either!
I don't know where you hung out in Colombia, but I can assure you that where I hung out there was no drugs used, either by the young or by the old.
Sometimes, could it be, that we find only what we are looking for.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Feb 19, 2005, 17:18:

hi, maarit... i think i made it clear in this and all my other posts. i lived the first several years in poblado(medellin) and after that the next few years in llano grande.

you may or may not be right. however, i don't think that it's up to one's personal posturing as to what they find. although i also don't think i ever denied my interests or proclivities in my life. i will say, that i don't now, or did i ever in the past have a 'hang out' life. i'm a very serious, hard working person and never gave myself to idle distractions. i have always chosen my ways of distraction, myself. not by anybody's standards, but by mine.

to be continued.

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dwmte says on Feb 19, 2005, 17:25:

thoughts, continued.... i have through my life, far more in my youth, enjoyed many of the magical plants GOD put on this earth. and i have always been amazed how people abuse these plants. too, how they abuse liquor and/or anything else. why? why do people abuse each other? i don't have an answer for that either.

but to get back to your querie. my time in colombia was not one of hanging out. i ran a reasonably large manufacturing business with about 70 employees. and needless to say, worked my ass off, as in the beginning, i didn't speak spanish. a real trip.

when i had off time, i spent it with my neighbors in el poblado, all of whom were professionals...dr. lawyers, artists, businessmen/women, etc. and nearly all would indulge in the enjoyment of these substances when we visited. does that sound strange?

what else can i tell you?

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 19, 2005, 23:37:

douglas, I'm sorry that you felt offended by my previous post. I admit it wasn't a very tactful one. I know where you lived and I know also that you worked hard there; what I meant by "hanging out" was socializing; what kind of friends you had, what kind of people did you surround yourself with. My neighborhood in Cali was a good one too, people who lived there could certainly afford the use of recreational drugs and had the leisure to do that too, yet nobody did. Why would these two upper middle-class/upper class barrios have two totally different attitudes towards drugs? I just can't get it.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Lionheart says on Feb 20, 2005, 00:03:

same observation as usual We have encountered this issue a few times now in various threads. I don't remember who wrote it in a different thread, but it makes sense. If you have personal background/experience with recreational drugs you see them everywhere. Why? I have no idea, but I see them used in top society in North America and in Europe, and also Asians visiting these two continents. Do users sense it that I have my past, even though I haven't touched anything for over 20 years now? But I also notice that when friends are with me with no background that they notice nothing, plus users are more cautious ... it doesn't sound like a logical explanation, but it is the only one that fits so far.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 20, 2005, 02:08:

I think it might be the time difference. I lived in Colombia before dw's time, about ten years before, and maybe that's the main reason for the difference in percepcion in recreational drug usage in good neighborhoods.
Somehow I just can't imagine Elenita next door doing a line after she tucked her babies in for a good night's sleep or Fernando passing out joints to their friends after a Saturday's barbecue ... I keep getting these ludicrous images in my head when I think about it and can't help laughing.
Douglas, I don't think God (gods) had anything to do in planting our garden varieties of recreational/medicinal/culinary herbs. Even if I believed in deities I would rather see them more as top-level management personnel than working at grass-roots.

Have a lovely Sunday,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Feb 20, 2005, 07:02:

can't answer these tough questions, desi... for myself, i was a farmers son who was little more than a country bumpkin go to the fair before i ended up at U.C. BERKELY. then, life changed...along comes dr. tim leahery (sp), richard alpert, carlos casteneda, etc. and the blinding veils were pulled away from my innocent little eyes. quite abruptly.

i had no previously installed opinions of anything, i hadn't even heard of pot. however, i learned fast. so fast, that the family had to pay for a years haitus to hawaii just to dry out. they didn't know that was why i went, but it was.

after my awakening, i discovered that pot use was everywhere i had been previously, i just didn't know it.

as you find it hard to believe that mrs. x would be doin a line before bedding down the kids, or mr. x passed out the j's after the bar b que. if one of my wifes did a line and tended the children, she'ld be sleeping in the yard...the same for pot. and i'm not being a hypocrit. it just didn't work that way.

i can't go into detail as i'm about to get bumped off again and i hate this when it happens. too, i don't like having to compose in word then export, etc.

peace. more later

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 20, 2005, 07:54:

Drug use perception My own experience about seeing drug use is exactly like Lionheart and DWMTE describe. It's kind of like the first time you have sex. Before you lose your virginity you think everyone else is innocent and inexperienced, too. After, you realize that all your friends have been doing it for years and you just didn't know. It's an interesting insight into our filters of perception.

I'm not a big user of any drug, legal or illegal, and haven't done anything in Colombia at all, but I have been around the block a few times in my life. I see lots of signs of drug use in Colombia, from guys flashing signs for selling coke on street corners to kids smoking joints in the park. Other people might just miss those things entirely.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 20, 2005, 08:46:

Medellin is the leading city in the use of coth cocaine and marihuana in Colombia according to that report. Now, this is a study of the drug usage among young people between 10 and 24 yrs of age. My personal observations about the use of recreational drugs (others than alcohol and tobacco) among middle-aged, professional people in strata 4-5 Cali neighborhoods would then actually be rather accurate. It would certainly seem to be an exaggeration to claim that "everybody" does drugs in Colombia, or that because I'm not a drug user myself I fail to see if my friends and family are users or not.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Feb 20, 2005, 11:07:

back in the early '90's.... i remember a news interview of an american correspondent, i think it might have been dan rather or ??...

anyway, he was interviewing a 'capo' from medellin...filming from the dealers back side. and a comment was made regarding nancy reagans little war on drugs, on, "...just saying no."

the drug lord came back with a chuckle, "....how do you just say no to a billion dollars."

dw

ps i saw this on colombian t.v.

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