Canadians in Colombia

utopiacowboy says on Jul 18, 2005, 11:00:

I've always liked British Columbia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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adrimm says on Jul 18, 2005, 13:01:

CE I don't live there, but I have family that does and have spent some time visiting there. Prob a good idea to try a long term visit first. In all reality it is quite different and in general it is a land of unbelievable contrasts in nearly every facet of life.

To me, the very visible economic extremes are the most difficult to digest, and some of the attitudes held (mostly by older Colombians) can be unsettling. Then there are little cultural things that can be odd until you get used to them ie. Nicknames often being things like " el gordo" or " el flaco" (fat one, skinny one).

But it is a warm, warm culture, generous people, with great diversity within the country (another huge difference between Canada and Colombia) very alive and eager to share life, great music, good food, an amazing array of tropical fruits.

Can you go for a term or something?

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Crazy Eagle says on Jul 18, 2005, 15:55:

diversity? How is Colombia more diverse than Canada? I would have thought the opposite would be the case, since Canada is a land of recent immigrants.

I will probably sign a one or two year teaching contract, in Cartagena, Bogota, or Medellin.

"Where races mix, there's the source of great cultures." Frederich Nietzsche

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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Sylvie says on Jul 18, 2005, 16:42:

........ I dont like it when people visit one cake city in Canada and assume they know everything about the second largest country in the world with two official languages and 5 metropolitan cities.

Canada is far more diverse than Colombia. Lived in both countries and I find Colombia to be pretty homogeneous and a tiny bit xenophobic for sure.

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Sylvie says on Jul 18, 2005, 17:57:

roofus Cake, cakers, mungi cake, cakey people are people of none European blood.
I got this from a site which better explains the term "cake"

Caker — is short for "Mange Cake" (pronounced manja cake, Italian for "cake-eater") and refers to Canadians of Anglo origin. It is said that the term originated in Italian-Canadian kitchens as a type of gentle mockery of Anglophone Canada's bland cultural and culinary habits.

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adrimm says on Jul 18, 2005, 18:41:

Definition of Diversity I wasn't thinking of Diversity in the ethnic/multilingual Trudeauesque way. More the long term ingrained culture and differences per region. In this nature I'd argue that Newfoundland and Quebec really only have ingrained cultures. The rest of Canadian "diversity", like most everything else, is fairly recently imported from parent culures, reprocessed and enjoyed by all (myself included). Landscape-wise, well Canada has to have some diversity, it is after all one of the biggest countries in the world.

Look at the size of Colombia, smaller than many of our provinces. In the 500 years that it has been "settled" each region has developed a unique identity, sayings, food, and even music that would take alot to shake. You have a different culture on each coast, one in the amazon, one up in the mountains, a few indigenous groups that still live traditionally, and beyond that departamental (geopolitical) divisions. Colombia has how many departments? And the whole thing (with all it's climates, regions, music, and mixes of people) would fit inside of each Canadian province west of New Brunswick, with room to spare.

That is what I meant about diversity.

If you want to count diversity by how many sushi-bars or falafel places or homes that speak a different language... For sure on a per capta ratio Canada beats the rest of the world hands down - heck I grew up in a family like that.

But that isn't what I meant - sorry for any confusion, perhaps I should have said rich culture and divderse land instead?

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Crazy Eagle says on Jul 19, 2005, 06:42:

what about taxes, rents, and stuff WHat about this stuff, and buying a car, groceries, etc much of a diff?

"Where races mix, there's the source of great cultures." Frederich Nietzsche

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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ColombiaBoard says on Jul 19, 2005, 07:40:

Cnucks in Medellin I know several canadians in Medellin who teach at a local bilingual school, they seem to be happy here and enjoying themselves, they take any chance they have to travel all over the country.

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DCShoeCo says on Jul 19, 2005, 13:19:

Canadian perspective Crazy Eagle, I am from BC, 26 years old, now living in Bogota.

On the negative side, the biggest differences between where I live in Canada (Kelowna, BC) and Bogota are -

1. Colombian cities are dirty. Really bad air pollution in Bogota especially. Sometimes on busses I have trouble breathing it´s so bad. Litter everywhere. It´s not so bad in nicer neighborhoods. Also, traffic is bad and really dangerous, crosswalks are not respected, etc.

2. Lack of space. Personally, I am used to houses on separate plots of land, with large grassy yards and wide streets and sidewalks. In Colombia houses are basically crammed against each other and yards are nonexistant.

3. Safety. In Canada I don´t give a thought to walking around anywhere at any time for the most part. In Bogota, you have to know where you can and can´t walk, and at night you take cabs. My girlfriend won´t let me catch cabs on the street at night either, she makes me call them. Also, I hate that Colombia has so many diverse and spectacular regions that I will never get to visit because it´s just too dangerous. But, it comes with the territory.

4. The lack of diverse foods. Do you like good sushi, pad thai, or anything even remotely spicy? You are out of luck. Colombian food is pretty bland, and though I like a lot of it, I miss being able to eat really good ethnic food, or have barbeques, or bake. You can´t find cheddar cheese either.

5. Lack of respect for time. I´ve lost count of how many appointments I´ve had with employers or even friends, where they just don´t show up and don´t bother to call or anything. In Canada that just doesn´t happen.

6. A lot of Colombian men have a chip on their shoulder about foreign men. Especially if you walk around with a hot local girl on your arm. I´ve had her guy friends tell her bullshit about me because they were jealous, all the while acting like they were my best friend. I´ve learned to take ¨new best friends¨ with a degree of skepticism. I get glared at on the street and in bars when I´m with her as well. This is certainly not the case with all guys, but it´s something I´ve noticed.

7. The weather in Bogota. Have you been to Vancouver in April? It´s basically like that all year.

8. Noise. Loud music is pumped everywhere. Traffic is really loud. People yell all the time. If you are used to quiet towns in Canada it can get to you. Especially when you´re on a bus or eating at a restaurant and you just want some peace and quiet, and the speakers are pounding in annoying rigaton music at full volume.

On the positive side -

1. Awesome colonial architecture. Amazing, diverse landscape. Love the hot weather (in other cities like Cali). Love the palm trees.

2. Bogota has awesome nightlife, good gyms, good museums, and there is never a lack of things to do. You need to speak Spanish though.

3. The people are for the most part, awesome. People are very warm and friendly, and are generally interested in talking with foreigners. Also, they are generally very cool, and can just chill without trying to impress you or challenge you. My girlfriend has a huge, close family and they always have big crazy parties. I love how her extended family is very close. It´s not like that in Canada.

4. Everyone goes out and dances salsa, and everyone dances with everyone else´s girlfriend, and it´s totally normal and nobody gets pissed off about it. Dancing is just a way of life here. Though personally I am not a big fan of latin music.

5. Things are much cheaper here. Take a taxi 20 minutes across town, and it costs 5 bucks. Groceries are cheap. Beer is cheap.

6. Obviously, the women. Very friendly, very sexy, and if you are a foreigner with even minimal social skills, you will do very well.

7. In general, spending time in Colombia is a good way to loosen up. Canadians (myself included) can be really uptight. For example, I´ve gotten used to being touched all the time, something I hated at first. You shake everyone´s hand. Guys put their arms around you. You kiss all the women you know on the cheek. And things like going out and dancing salsa or merengue even though you know you suck. And being on horribly overcrowded busses that just about kill you, and not being affected anymore. Or getting ripped off because you´re a dumb foreigner, and learning to laugh it off. It´s a good experience.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 19, 2005, 15:18:

I laughed when I read number 8:

"Noise. Loud music is pumped everywhere. Traffic is really loud. People yell all the time. If you are used to quiet towns in Canada it can get to you."

Yeah, but you better not slam a car door or a house door. It's the noisiest freaking place on the planet but the slamming of a door just completely unhinges them. hehehehe

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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adrimm says on Jul 19, 2005, 17:58:

Words to live by That is the absolute most perfect description I have ever heard of Canadian-newcomer perspective on Colombia (Bogota at for sure, but is also applicable to many other large Colombian cities that people tend to stay in). At least if the Canadian involved is accustomed to smaller Canadian communities, (as I was on my early trips to Colombia).

It matches pretty much exactly what I went/go through for the first week or two there (and consequently try to forget and ignore). It gets easier to "switch" after each trip tho, and these days I have been to other places that have similarities so it doesn't seem so different.

One small thing I'd add, might be the # of street vendors, beggars and buses/cabs on the roads. Visually shocking

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Rubiazo says on Jul 19, 2005, 18:47:

Several things FIRST OFF, Bogota is NOT noisy compared to many other places. Dominican REpublic is MUCH noisier. Toronto isnt any less noisy than Bogota by any means. Toronto air is also MUCH dirtier than that of Bogota, at least in the summer. But in both cities, different neighborhoods have different levels of air pollution and it can vary widely.
I can also categorically state that there are WAY WAY WAY more squeegee people in Toronto and Montreal than in Bogota.
See my other post. Good sushi is DEFINITELY available in Bogota.
Aside from Toronto and Montreal, Canada is NOT really ethnically diverse. The original poster lives in a place where it is pretty much as whitebread as anywhere else in North America and where good ethnic food is really hard to come by and baking soda is considered a spice. I know because I was born and raised in his town.
One other disgusting thing about Canada is the racist attitudes of people there. I was there with my at the time wife (now ex); I'm white and she is black. We got dirty looks and comments from EVERYBODY, white, black, male, female, you name it. The worst were the black females hissing at her and calling her race traitor and other fucking garbage. And this was in cosmopolitan, 'multicultural' Toronto. To me Canada's 'mosaic multiculturalism' is just another word for 'racial segregation'.

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adrimm says on Jul 19, 2005, 19:17:

Rubz Gee Rubz unfortunately not every last Canadian that goes to Colombia is from a major centres, or have neccessarily travelled in "developing" countries. That's great that Bogota isn't as noisy as other places (and I agree), but what good is that if the person asking hasn't been to many other places??? Frankly for these people, I think it takes guts to pick up and go to Colombia since most of what they hear about it (unless they actively go looking for info and Colombians) isn't always quite the case.

What is real to "worldly" people is not neccessarily real to everyone, and what someone sees depends on their perspective. People are different and you damn-well know that everyone has all sorts of differing ideas and opinions on what is good and bad.

As for good and bad, it goes both ways, each country has good and bad parts. While some Canadians maybe have racial predjudices, some Colombians have socio econ predjudices.

I'd say that DC hit the nail on the head with how things in Bogota may be seen based on a non-megacity Canadian perspective.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 19, 2005, 20:17:

Apples and oranges If you're going to compare Canada to Colombia, you should at least compare major cities with major cities, and small towns with small towns then!

If you want to take a look at smaller cities or towns in Canada, you certainly arent' going to find great ethnic food, or great any kind of food at all for that matter, unless you can cook it yourself!! And there are some DANGEROUS small towns in Canada, especially for someone not from there e.g. Medicine Hat, Dryden, Wawa etc. There are also some perfectly gorgeous small towns too.

I certainly couldnt see how any Canadian could bitch about the weather in Colombia either, especially Bogota. Bogota has the weather that its almost IMPOSSSIBLE to get anywhere in Canada. Really you're comparing the country that has the world's best weather with the country that has the WORST, hands down. I don't know too many people that like the -40 cold, or the terrible humidity in the summers. Colombia has none of the former and very little of the latter.

A poster mentioned 'lack of space' in Colombia. Well, I'm sure in smaller towns you have much more breathing room around the houses and in bigger cities there is less. Bogota certainly is less packed together than Toronto or NYC are, although admittedly that is one of the things that contribute to its horrible traffic.

But to sum up, just as one point, there is nowhere I know of in Canada where you can eat a decent pad thai that doesnt also have a huge traffic and pollution problem and lack of yard space AND is very safe even for strangers at any hour of the day or night. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect this of Colombia.

But for the record I don't think Toronto's restaurants are even 1% as good as those of Bogota. Montreal is a different story however!

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Sylvie says on Jul 19, 2005, 22:29:

....... Montreal has the best food in the world. The best international food in the wordl for sure. I never found a good Chinese, Indian, Greek or Polish restaurant in Colombia.

Toronto food is crap! hehehe

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2005, 04:50:

One other point Are Colombians REALLY late for everything in Bogota as well as in the rest of the country. I didn't encounter that at all when I was down there. If a business was to open at 9am it would open at 9am, where as in Santo Domingo for example you'd have to be CRAZY to get there before 10:30am as that was when they would probably open up, at the earliest.

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Crazy Eagle says on Jul 20, 2005, 06:41:

my two pesos Never been to Colombia, but have lived in Toronto, Winnipeg, and San Francisco.

Toronto: great restruants, interesting neighborhoods. However, it is a culture based on money and the pursuit of money and status based on nothing more than - you guessed it - money. Glad to have left.

Winterpeg: lousy winters, but they do get a lot of sunshine. Lots of lakes and beaches nearby. Good place to raise a family, IMO.

San Francisco: Heaven on Earth, or nearest thing to it I have ever seen. Lovely landscape, great architecture, perfect weather, friendly, cool, educated people.

My guess is that Bogota resembles Toronto in many ways, and that Medellin is more like SF. Does suck you can't get Chinese food in Colombia?

"Where races mix, there's the source of great cultures." Frederich Nietzsche

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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caslug says on Jul 20, 2005, 09:32:

Crazy.. you're a little off.. Never been to Toronto, but I don't think BOgota is like Toronto. I've been to Lima & Bogota, and both cities share certainly similarity, same size (8 mil), bad traffic/noise pollution(inherent in all 3rd world country city with lots of cars/buses) Bogota is a little better, that's about it for similarities.

Lima reminds me more of SF in several respects, cultural diversity(sizable of asian-chinese/japanese peruvian, fair amount of foreign tourist/expat), great, diverse cusine choices(if you like chinese there's one on every corner-chifa resturante), both city are next to the ocean, and both city have about 3-4 month of beautiful weather follow by 8-9 month of overcast(except SF rains ALOT MORE), both have LOTS of museum and tourist attraction.

One thing to keep in mind about SF is it's has a small population(under 1 mil inside the city), yet has LOTS of stuff crammed in. While Bogota and LIma are sprawling metropolis(think mini-LA).

Bogata weather is more like Seattle, the cuisine selection decent but not anything to write home about, especailly the AVAILALBILITY of ethnic cusine. Sure you can find french, italian, chinese, japanese, etc., available in Bogota, but not on the scale of SF(there's seems to be a chinese or italian restuarnant in every corner), LA, NY(tons of chinese/italian/indian), Orange County(tons of chinese/vietnamese/japanaese/mexican places), London or other 1st world cities. This is NOT a put down on Bogota, to compare a 3rd world city to 1st world city is inherent unfair. Especially consumer related activities, 1st world cities population has LOTS more disposal income to go out and eat than 3rd world population(DUH!). So of course there's not going to be as many restaurants available in 3rd world cities.

Enjoy Bogota for what it is(see DCSHOE post), that's the beauty of a traveller, we get to enjoy each place we goto for it's uniqueness.

BTW, you CAN get DECENT, MODESTLY price chinese food in COL, i've had in Cali. THose chinese immigrants have opened restaurants in ALL parts of the world. What i COULDNT find in Peru or COL is Vietnamese food, ie bowl of PHO.

PS. I find it difficult to believe that Toronto DOESNT have some good chinese places, because outside of Vancouver there's TONS of chinese in Toronto.

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DCShoeCo says on Jul 20, 2005, 12:03:

Rubiazo - ¨If you're going to compare Canada to Colombia, you should at least compare major cities with major cities, and small towns with small towns then!¨

Actually, it´s my post, and I can do whatever the fuck I want!

I was comparing Bogota to where I have lived in British Colombia, namely Kelowna, Vancouver and Victoria, where there is excellent ethnic food, it is very safe and the weather never drops below plus 10 degrees in the winter, and is usually around 14-24 degrees with quite a bit of rain, just like Bogota. Toronto may be just as loud and dirty as Bogota, I wouldn´t know, I´ve never been there, and couldn´t give a fuck about it. If you live there then I feel sorry for you. I was comparing Bogota to west coast Canada. My point was that in Canada, they don´t pump loud music EVERY SINGLE PLACE YOU GO. So take a pill, I´m not insulting you or Colombia, I´m giving my honest comparison of where I live compared to Bogota. And yeah, Colombians really are late for everything. **DELETED**

**Please try to lighten up on the F word. It doesn't add anything to the post. -Moderators**

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caslug says on Jul 20, 2005, 13:47:

Yeah, the tardes thing drives me crazy.. Dates would show up 1 or 2 hrs late WITHOUT calling! ONLY in COL, i've been to peru they are lot more punctual, never had a date in peru show up more than 30 mins late. OK, i confess, the women in COL are better looking ON AVERAGE, but that still only buys them 15 mins extra! LOL!

DC, you'll have to excuse Rubaizo, he truely feels that BOGOTA is the second coming of Eden/Shangri-la. Everybody has the city they love the most, so dont take it personally with his comments on Bogota.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2005, 19:53:

Actually it's not that so much as that I HATE Canada. And part of what I hate about it are Canadians pretending that they don't have any problems in their country, and glossing it over. I would move to pretty much ANY country in the world before moving back to Canada.
DCShoe, I was born in Winnipeg, lived 6 years in Toronto, now live in New York. I've been EVERYWHERE in Canada, except for the Maritimes. And I certainly don't think Bogota is much like Toronto OR Vancouver. Vancouver has to be the RUDEST place I have ever been. I actually did an experiment once when i was there, standing on the corner right outside the Granville Skytrain station and asking people what time it was. I looked at my watch and hid it before I started asking. When someone FINALLY actually stopped to give me the time, I took the watch out. 45 minutes!!! I don't think it would take 45 SECONDS anywhere in Colombia. As for Vancouver and Kelowna being safe, HAH! I have relatives on East 23rd St in Van and it is FAR from safe there. Not saying that anywhere in Colombia is necessarily safe either.
Winnipeg is a place I wouldn't wanna raise a cat, let alone a kid! For those of you who have been to Cleveland or Memphis, those three cities are just about the exact same city, aside from the climate!
And sorry, but good Thai food in Kelowna, BC? Last time I was there there wasn't good food PERIOD to be had. IMO anybody looking for decent food in Canada should go to Montreal, or at least somewhere in Quebec. But if you're looking for good ethnic food, that leaves Montreal.
Also DCShoe, it looks to me like it's CrazyEagle's thread, NOT yours. So just as you'll white whatever you want you can KNOW that I'm gonna do the same. And whenever I see people spreading myths about how great Canada is on this board I'm gonna speak up about it and let people hear another side of the story.

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Sam Salmon says on Jul 20, 2005, 21:48:

While Canadians love Colombia for it's proud friendly people, dramatic landscapes, endless beaches/jungles, delicious fruits and welcoming cities there will never be a significant Canadian presence in the country for one simple reason-the fishing is piss poor.
There I said it and it's true!



' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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DCShoeCo says on Jul 21, 2005, 12:03:

Rubiazo, you´re out to lunch, and I´ll leave it at that. The fact that you were born in Winnipeg explains a lot.

I wrote the weather is similar to Vancouver, not the city. Seriously the sooner you shut up on this one, the smarter you´ll look.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 21, 2005, 18:55:

DCShoe is just bitter because he can't stand somebody telling the truth about how shitty is little 'stripper-capital-of-Canada' town is. Say hi to your mom for me, by the way. Ask her how those implants are doing. Tell her 'Wendel' from the rock band says hi.

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DCShoeCo says on Jul 22, 2005, 11:41:

hey man, I´m not blaming you at all. If I was raised in Winnipeg I´d hate Canada too. Your parents´ inbreeding is NOT YOUR FAULT man.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 22, 2005, 13:09:

If you read my posts you'd see that I've been EVERYWHERE in Canada except the Maritimes. And yes, I'm ashamed to have come from Winnipeg. But the rest of the country can kiss my ass too. The only place in Canada i can even tolerate is Quebec. I've been to your town too. You couldn't put me in leg irons and force me to live there!

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Sylvie says on Jul 28, 2005, 12:36:

Stereotyping is funny I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this


http://members.shaw.ca/dvisdead/IamnotCa.mp3


You'll need real player to listen to it. It's hilarious if you actually know a french Quebecer. I'm sure Brunito will appreciate it. lol

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Rubiazo says on Jul 28, 2005, 21:00:

LOL I didn't miss ANY of that.
And I have been to Super Sexe.
His accent isn't very authentic though, on the other hand if it were NOBODY would understand him HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Going right through the red lights is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! The funny thing is people in New Orleans drive EXACTLY like people in Montreal. It really must be in the DNA!!

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Sylvie says on Jul 28, 2005, 21:51:

I'm glad someone got it. hehehehe

Yeah the accent is obviously an anglo faking the Quebecer accent. hahaha

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bkelly says on Jul 29, 2005, 11:27:

Many Canadians in Bucaramanga There are about 7-10 Canadians that I personally know in Bucaramanga, and I am sure there are more that I do not know. The Canadians are a jovial bunch, to say the least.

--bkelly

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Rubiazo says on Jul 29, 2005, 14:45:

Try Costa Rica or DR. There are more Canadians living in those countries than people from those countries living in Canada!! I seriously think half my high school is smoking pot in San Jose right now!!

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