CANADIAN PR VISA NOT SUFFICIENT TO FLY THROUGH U.S.

Lowell says on Jan 8, 2008, 13:51:

AA sucks for service. Got really screwed once on a connection in Miami. Now they along with Delta are my last resort airlines.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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aztec says on Jan 8, 2008, 13:58:

jinksmiester, "Anyhow...sorry to all you americans out there but those canuck bucks i was gonna spend on my way through the u.s. will now be spent elsewhere.I suppose they thought my wife would dump me...her baby..and her canadian citizenship so she could be a u.s.illegal instead..nahhhhh i dun,t tink so."

Know you are aggravated but this whole sentence was unnecessary!

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msaucey says on Jan 8, 2008, 14:34:

jinks.... I'm truly shocked... American Red Tape is never heard of.... You should have asked the Colombian Consulate in Canada....

I'm sure there is one, they tend to know that real truth.... Okay, that is a funny too....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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jinksmiester says on Jan 8, 2008, 16:54:

aztec...no pun intended against americans in general..I hold the u.s.in high regards to be truthful..more just peeved off with u.s. customs and AA.I know of people with resident visa,s in the u.s. that visit canada (u.s. immigrants)and if they have residence in the u.s. they don,t require a special visa.You would think it would work both ways across the border....seems it would be a fairly dumb thing to stay illegal in either country as a person would probably screw himself in both....i suppose there might be the odd fool.The logic of allowing my wife to stop in the u.s on her way to canada from colombia but not on the way to colombia from canada...well..thats beyond me.Would,nt a person(illegal) be just as likley to bolt from the airport in either direction??

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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famsearch says on Jan 8, 2008, 19:51:

hmm, you trusted an airline for visa info? why didn't you check with the american consulate first, then buy your tickets? you also say "I know of people with resident visa,s in the u.s. that visit canada (u.s. immigrants)and if they have residence in the u.s. they don,t require a special visa.", could it be that because they had the american visa, that they would have no problem reentering the u.s.?

dan

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john_stark says on Jan 8, 2008, 20:38:

You're right, Jinksmeister! A Colombian with permanent residence in Canada is not allowed to visit the US without a visa BUT a Colombiana with permanent residence in the US is allowed to visit Canada without a visa. What's up with that? Looks like Canada should be as mean-spirited as the US and do like Brazil did, make all US residents get a visa to visit Canada. If Harper had any balls, he'd tell Bush to go shove his head up his ass and fight for air. This is why people all over the world hate the US.

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manINred says on Jan 8, 2008, 21:51:

haha, true! Harper has a lot more balls than the rest of the joke politicians that infest Canada unfortunately. Too bad he has no personality whatsoever.

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Man Tequila says on Jan 8, 2008, 22:47:

I have heard Harper has a personality in private, but no public persona. Still, Dion makes Harper look like Winston Freakin Churchill.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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jinksmiester says on Jan 9, 2008, 03:12:

In the future when questions like this arise i will ask the consulate....I would have thought that an airline dealing with these types of travel questions on a daily basis should know there business....Oh well....hey they told me the call was bieng recorded for quality assurance(ha ha ha)... i doubt that will help much.They went through our passports and checked our bags at the airport so the people behind the counter there for AA did,nt know she needed a transit visa either.Regardless of whether they return my cash i will without question use the credit for future travel.... and it will be the one and only trip i take with AA....I agree with starky...in the interest of ...ahhh..security....we should have the same restrictions for pr americans entering canada...after all they might want to give up there one and only chance of becoming a u.s. citizen and prefer to be canadian illegal instead ..that way they can get good canadian beer eh...and a better price on maple syrup to baste there hams..and eats dem cod tounges... and party eh! and play hockey...only makes sense eh!

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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miamimike says on Jan 9, 2008, 04:01:

Jinks-this No Transit Rule has been in effect I believe for 7 years or so and it was a well publicized change at the time. I'm surprised AA even sold you a ticket without a Transit Visa! The Reason the Law had to be changed on this was that here in Miami(LA and NYC also), especially here in Miami, you were having 100s of Colombians booking International flights with a Stop here in Miami. Once here in Miami, they simply got off the Plane and never returned,abondoning their Flight and absconding here in south florida. These Absconders ruined it for well intentioned people like yourself so know where to correctly place the blame but the Blame parties are not the US Airlines or the US Government. Place the rule at the feet of these scammers,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 9, 2008, 04:03:

Tell me about the last time Canada was targeted by terrorists? Maybe a fence should be built around the Northwest Territories to keep illegal immigrants out.

"...make all US residents get a visa to visit Canada." Gee, do ALL Canadian citizens need a VISA to visit the US?

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jinksmiester says on Jan 9, 2008, 05:16:

Mike..I believe they no doubt had lots of illegals ...but i believe most of those illegals were probably colombians coming from colombia who may have felt they had nothing to lose.A colombian with a pr visa to canada does have something to lose (there one chance at canadian citizenship) and i doubt there would be manny that would throw that away to become a u.s. illegal.A colombian with permanent residence in the u.s. is seen by canadian immigration as a person who in a few years will be a u.s. citizen.They do not need a special visa to visit canada ....i assume the logic bieng that life in the u.s. is not that bad that they would not throw away a chance at bieng a u.s. citizen to become a canadian illegal...seems to me the same logic would apply to pr canadians visiting the u.s. as canada is not a bad place to be either .I am sure i would have no problem getting my wife a transit visa ...im sure she would get one a lot easier than a colombian would get a visiters visa to the u.s. ...thats because of the pr canadian visa. I agree that colombians and illegals in general are the root cause and certainly america should be vigilante in keeping illegals out...be stupid not to.IThat said...f i were a colombian with pr canadian visa wanting to become a u.s. illegal there would be no way to keep me out of the u.s....you could postpone my entry three years...after that id be a canadian with a canadian passport and free as a bird to enter the u.s. My point bieng that no matter what the u.s. does there will always be some illegal immigrants and u.s. tax dollars would be better spent where there are real threats of illegals...I think my wife ...a pr canadian resident mother with a canadian husband and four month old canadian baby is no threat to u.s security.
I don,t think canada should make u.s citizens get a visa to visit....but perhaps we should treat u.s permanent resident immigrants the same way at our border so the laws are the same on both sides.We get illegal immigration here as well and to some degree terrorist threats...but that would only keep them out 3 years till they get there u.s. passport....tit for tat.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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miamimike says on Jan 9, 2008, 05:23:

Jinks-I don't disagree with your line of reasoning, only stating why this Transit law was created and put into effect. The Sad thing is, as with many Laws, the Honest and well intentioned get caught up and punished in the process. This is the same reason why many Honest well Intentioned Colombians can NO longer secure a Visitor Tourist Visa to the US, too many scammers in the past gamed our system and they ruined it for everyone. Just like the Transit Visa needed to pass through the US. BTW, at least here in Miami, studies have shown that Visa Absconders come from all economic classes, not just from that class with nothing to lose. If they had nothing to start with, they, in all probability, never would have received a tourist visa from the Get-Go.Most applicants for a Tourist Visa have to demonstrate they have resources to support themselves while here and also they have Jobs and a Home to return to afterwards.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 9, 2008, 05:35:

Every single law will have unintended adverse consequences.

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miamimike says on Jan 9, 2008, 05:44:

TT-Very true!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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john_stark says on Jan 9, 2008, 06:11:

The whole point is there is no reciprocity. The US should treat Canadian PRs the same way that they treat ours. The US in its arrogance believes that a Canadian PR would want to stay in the US. Give me a break. Believe me, we are hated and justifiably so. Every little thing like this just drives another nail in the coffin.

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bill230 says on Jan 9, 2008, 06:47:

It seems like it would be pretty easy to isolate international transfers in a part of the airport, so that if they wanted to leave the transfer area they would have to go through customs.

Isn't that the way most/all European airports work?

You don't have to go through Dutch customs if you just land and change planes in Amsterdam - same with Lufthansa, Austrian, Air France..etc, etc

Anyone know why the US doesn't work that way? Not enough traffic? Cost? Government nosiness?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2008, 07:01:

Well, John Stark, VicShere has said he worked illegally in the U.S. as a Canadian citizen and Rubito said there are many Canadian citizens living and working illegally in the U.S. (although he had a tendency to exaggerate). Canada is free to reciprocate if they wish, but I bet there is some basis for the U.S. not allowing Canadian permanent residents to come and go as they please - could be bad experiences with gold-digging foreign brides, refugees, Asian gangs, who knows...

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tomtom33 says on Jan 9, 2008, 07:12:

Why stop at reciprocity if that is so important? The bottom line is that each country has its own priorities. The US is not in the business of pleasing everyone. Sorry.

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miamimike says on Jan 9, 2008, 07:46:

You may be surprised at the number of Canadians Deported from the USA back home. Until I worked in Immigration, I never would have guessed there were many Canadian Overstays to begin with but that was a wrong assumption. I still see many Canadian Nurses here in Florida coming here to work on long term Visas with no problem whatsoever. These aren't your type to be Visa absconders as they never have a hard time securing work permits in this field of employment.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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El Piloto says on Jan 9, 2008, 08:07:

Bill230: U.S. airports were set up with international transfer lounges inside the sterile international arrivals area of the airport. Pre-9/11/01 US airports such as MIA did a brisk trade in TWOV (transit without visa) movements and you are correct that there were separate secure lounges inside the immigration controlled area of the airport. But the government pulled the plug on TWOV in the paranoid world of post-9/11 "security." Airlines objected to this change as the inability to sell tickets to TWOV passengers has certainly put a dent in the load factors of U.S. carriers such as AA.

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jinksmiester says on Jan 9, 2008, 11:57:

From what i hear in canada they say roles are now reversed with more american illegals entering canada than canadian illegals entering the u.s.I actually had one working in my business till the police showed up one day and carted her away...she got deported.
well said starky...you hit the nail on the head...there is no reason why pr residents should be treated differently on either side of the border...except perhaps u.s.arrogance.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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tomtom33 says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:00:

"...there is no reason why pr residents should be treated differently on either side of the border...except perhaps u.s.arrogance."

And of course you have the background and expertise to make such a judgment. Why didn't the INS just ask you first?

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Gator says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:14:

TomTom, ROTFLMAO!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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jinksmiester says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:43:

The canadian immigration system is no different from the u.s. as far as backround checks etc..besides that all information is shared between countrys..A person with pr visa canadian or american pr visa has been through the system so to say that one or the other is more of a threat or to stay illegal is joke..even a an arrogant american can figure that one out...not rocket science tom tom.
sorry.. i don,t think an american pr visa is special or more secure than a canadian one.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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oldbongo says on Jan 9, 2008, 18:05:

jinx..
long time ago, we alluded to the same problem, letcherous visa officer denies entry to usa...two years running, to pr visa la commandante.
we are still pissed, the unfair situation is unjust, and not about to change.
and remember, canadian passport still does not make her "free as a a bird"
they could still deny her,....but they prolly won't.
the transit visa is possible, but not really worth it.
come to think of it again, neither is the visit to usa.

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john_stark says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:05:

"The US is not in the business of pleasing everyone. Sorry."

Fine. Then don't complain that the rest of the world is on a jihad against us. I imagine the Nazis used similar logic then couldn't understand why everyone was fighting against them.

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eywed says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:12:

An emergency on your part for lack of planning does not mean it's one for the U.S..

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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christobeldawg says on Jan 9, 2008, 21:17:

good to see ya back Rubito. how's it goin?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on Jan 9, 2008, 22:58:

where are ya located these days?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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tomtom33 says on Jan 10, 2008, 03:40:

UC, I won't complain about terrorists. I will advocate nuking them, to use your terminology. There is no way in hell of even pleasing all US citizens.

Jinks, I am no expert on the immigration systems of either country. But I will guarantee that they are not exactly the same. The risks and challenges of the two countries are quite different as well.

Let's see if I have this straight, you are inconvenienced because you didn't get your information from the proper source and the US is arrogant?

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guacharaca says on Jan 10, 2008, 15:36:

The flight from Bogota to Toronto, which is the only direct flight between the two countries, flies on Sat and Wednesday. It is known as the "asylum seeker express". I believe the only other way to avoid USA is to go through Mexico, but Mexico is just as strict on Colombians as the USA.

A Colombian is more likely to successfully stay in Canada than the US because of our asylum laws. We will take anyone on half truths. USA just sends them home. The Canadian Embassy knows this and, in turn, denies almost all tourist visas.

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

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manINred says on Jan 10, 2008, 15:51:

Personally I think Canada's treatment of Colombians entering the country is pretty bad too. Neither country is a glowing beacon of example

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vicshere says on Jan 10, 2008, 16:06:

crap its not any worst than the way immigrants to Colombia are treated ...hell I been through the process here its not a cake walk

listo

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tomtom33 says on Jan 10, 2008, 17:23:

I'll second that one, Vic.

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El Piloto says on Jan 10, 2008, 17:28:

Canada's treatment of US citizens entering Canada on business also leaves much to be desired. Maybe the key lesson here is that customs/immigration inspectors are pricks the world over!

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tomtom33 says on Jan 10, 2008, 17:29:

Damn, so much wisdom tonight.

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jinksmiester says on Jan 11, 2008, 06:54:

tom tom..I have a freind who brought his wife to the u.s and while he was bringing his to the u.s.i was bringing mine to canada..we went through each others paper work and i actually helped him with his.The only difference in the huge paper shuffel was that his was going to u.s. immigration and mine was going to canada immigration.
I agree the u.s. faces different challenges and more in the way of threats from terrorism.The truth be known they have made a lot of enemys and also created a booming business selling canadian apparel etc to u.s citizens who feel more secure travelling if people think they are canadian instead of american.The u.s. has and is involved in manny questionable wars...questionable not only by other countrys but by there own u.s citizens.Take iraq for example...i find it almost impossibly difficult to believe that u.s. and british intelligence was that piss poor they did,nt know there were no wmds in iraq..(so do a lot off people).that was there whole excuse and the platform they sold to the american people and the rest of the world..Is it likley that there intelligence really was that poor...or was this invasion all about securing a suppy of oil....hmmm...
In any event im now off topic...to answer your question...yes i made a mistake trusting AA to know there business as ive already stated..yes i should not have relied on there advise..i should have contacted u.s. immigration.And yes i think the u.s.goverment is arrogant in how they conduct a lot of there business and i believe they are seen as arrogant by other countrys...im certainly not alone in that sentiment.It would seem to me they are fueling there own recession and spending billions`on wars that only seem to create more hatred and enemys against them...wars there is probably no way to win.
Just curious...can you think of any reason why its okay for my wife to travel through the u.s to canada from colombia...but not the same trip in reverse...its beyond me.
Anyhow all good here..made it back to colombia and stayed clear of the u.s.I would have to say that u.s immigration is not helping the recession in the u.s.Im just one guy out of thousands im sure that will now likley avoid it for travel just because of the b.s.Ive made 14 trips in the last two years..all through the u.s. except this one.Usually i spend a few days in vegas..drop some money in the casinos..miami..or chicogo...but now the airlines through the u.s have lost my business..the hotels have lost my business....etc..but i guess its like you stated ..the u.s. is not in the business of pleasing people..and im not in the business of going through a pile of usless bull shit just to go through there air space or stop in there citys`and airports.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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tomtom33 says on Jan 11, 2008, 08:08:

You don't use reason when it comes to any government. It just is or is not.

Try asking the Kurds about Saddam's WMDs.

And yeah, I have plenty of bones to pick with the US as well. There is no government anywhere that can please a big majority of its own people a big majority of the time. I have long since given up trying to please the whole world.

I do believe that the US is trying. And, to this day, I believe that the Iraq invasion was necessary. Of course it was not done correctly. What invasion has ever been done correctly?

I am glad that you got things straightened out.

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manINred says on Jan 11, 2008, 08:53:

"Just curious...can you think of any reason why its okay for my wife to travel through the u.s to canada from colombia...but not the same trip in reverse...its beyond me."

Sometimes there's just no rhyme or reason jinkmeister.

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jinksmiester says on Jan 11, 2008, 15:59:

Hey manlNerd..it just baffles me ??? going one way they can deport her ass to canada..going the other they can deport her ass to colombia..hey ...and the ticket is already paid for so it won,t cost the american tax payers a cent..thats hilarious!!
good debate tom tom ...with points scored on both sides...that why i visit and like the pbh website..well that and i have developed a passion for colombia...so much so i had to take a piece of it back to canuckville.....my wife.

A man is not old until regret takes the place of dreams

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john_stark says on Jan 11, 2008, 21:45:

Yeah the US has special challenges all right. Like the hatred of the entire world population. It's gonna catch up with us and when it does, I will have no sympathy. We're a bunch of Nazis and got it coming to us.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 12, 2008, 02:51:

And you have lived all over the US UC? From what I have heard of Texas, you might have a point - for Texas. I know the upper Midwest best. That is not the case there.

And, no, the US is never going to do what you think it ought to do, thank God.

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