Can someone explain the MIRA political movement?

bufalo says on Feb 7, 2006, 16:58:

I'm kind of suspicious of it myself. someone told me something about it a while ago, I forget exactly what they said. It is some type of religeous and political movement. A bit freaky, like the missionaries I can't stand. I met some the other day and wanted to tell them to take a hike, but they were really young and innocent like so I was nice.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 7, 2006, 17:03:

Two missionaries in Leticia? For whom were they seeking converts?

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bufalo says on Feb 7, 2006, 17:33:

Me? The missionaries I met? Or the Mira guys? Mira, I have no clue. I met some kids down here in Leticia who are "helping" local communities. The people here, economically don't have much, but I would never consider them poor. They seem to be really happy and I don't see it as poverty like I do in other parts. Most are indigenous and live off of what the river gives them. There is also a lot of money sent by other countries (usually pissed away by the local politicians). I don't see why a group of geeks have to come here and spread "The freaking word".

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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bufalo says on Feb 7, 2006, 20:22:

I have no idea, but they didn't say priest, rather pastor, if that helps. The skit - I remember something like that, but not clearly

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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bufalo says on Feb 8, 2006, 07:02:

Yeah, Jehovas can be more annoying

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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greg says on Feb 8, 2006, 07:37:

GIB If a short heavy set lady knocks on your door trying to convert you to Jehova please don`t slam the door in her face too hard. It might be my late wifes mother. All she does is wander around Bogota handing out booklets. She tried to convert me once but know she knows better

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arthur brode says on Feb 8, 2006, 17:02:

MIRA IS A TRUE POLITICAL/SOCIAL/CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT OF VOLUNTEERS AND PROFESIONALS THAT HELP COLOMBIAN CITIZENS IN THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR WITH COURSES, EMPLOYMENT, MEDICAL,DENTAL AND LEGAL ASSISTANCE, ENGLISH CLASES.THE LEADER IS ALEXANDRA PIRAQUIVE MORENO WHO IS PRESENTLY RUNNING FOR SENATOR.VOTE FOR HER IN MARCH 12!!

http://www.calirentals.net/

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platano says on Feb 8, 2006, 18:42:

MIRA was legally created in 2000... MIRA participated in local elections in 2001. It was born as a political arm of the "iglesia de Jesucristo Internacional" which was founded in 1972 by Luis Eduardo Moreno and María Luisa Piraquive, parents of the senator, Alexandra Moreno Piraquive, who was born August 23, 1969 in Bogotá. She is a lawyer who graduated from the Universidad Santo Tomás, specializing in commercial law.

In its first thirty years the church ("iglesia de Jesucristo Internacional" which gave birth to MIRA) grew from a small prayer group of fewer than 10 persons to a structured organization with branches in more than 40 cities in Colombia, as well as churches in the United States, Ecuador, Panamá, España y Costa Rica.

Besides Senator Moreno, the other leader in the movement is the assemblyman of Bogotá, Carlos Alberto Baena, who is the main "pastor" of the church in Bogota.

One of MIRA's big issues is defending the rights of prisoners imprisoned outside Colombia. Moreno got a law passed that will guarantee 200 prisoners will return to Colombia after their release.

After Bogota the region with the most adherents is the coffee growing region with churches in seven cities. The third region with the most MIRA influence is Valle.

Positions taken by MIRA on issues:

TLC : Against

Extradition : Against

Ley de Justicia y Paz : For

Abortion : Against

Minorities : For civil rights for racial minorities. Against civil rights for sexual minorities, e.g., against same-sex marriage.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT MIRA:

Bogotá: Transversal 29 35a-40
Tel: 3379340
http://www.webmira.com/plátano

plátano

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platano says on Feb 8, 2006, 19:07:

GIB, Although there are obviously theological differences between different protestant sects, Roman Catholics, MIRA, and Jehovah's Witnesses, they are all CHRISTIAN.

In other words, they all share exactly the same central belief: that Christ is Lord and Savior.plátano

plátano

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bufalo says on Feb 8, 2006, 19:30:

So I guess this group is about as wacko as all the other holly rollers, no offense to the religeous people out there.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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arthur brode says on Feb 8, 2006, 19:48:

you dont have to be a Christian to believe in MIRA

http://www.calirentals.net/

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platano says on Feb 8, 2006, 20:25:

The majority of MIRA voters are Christians... The majority of MIRA voters are Christians and there is a close relationship between MIRA and the "iglesia de Jesucristo Internacional" since MIRA began as a political action project of the church.

However, as Arthur states correctly, you don't have to be Christian to vote for MIRA.plátano

plátano

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 9, 2006, 06:49:

Re the thread in the "Politics and War" section Whoever is looking for Carlos Castano should ask MIRA. MIRA and the paras/narcos appear to share the same views.

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aaronfromus says on Feb 9, 2006, 09:31:

Jehova's Witnesses are not the same as Catholics or Protestants Jehova's witnesses are not the same as Catholics or Protestants. To say Jesus is Lord is not to say he is merely in charge or a king of some kind. The word "Lord" was the english word chosen to mean "God" when early translations were made. Therefore, the point of the phrase "Jesus is Lord," is not to say that Jesus is merely in some way in charge, it is a theological statement stating that "Jesus is God." By making such a statement, Jesus, as God, takes on the attributes of God, one of which is "eternality," meaning God is eternally self-existant. With this understanding, Jesus is God, who took on a fleshly form, and although sinless and perfect, died in the flesh for the sins of men. Jehova's Witnesses believe that Jesus was an archangel before he took on a fleshly form. Angels are beings created by God, angels are not self-existent. Therefore, while both catholics and protestants would say that Jesus is God, Jehova's Witnesses do not say that Jesus is God, but rather they deny the diety of Christ. Interestingly, the Apostle Paul states that a denial of the diety of Christ is based on a spirit of anti-christ.

Also it should be noted, that aside from the "Jesus is Lord" passage, both catholics and protestants use many other passages to demonstrate the diety of Christ... which is wayyyyy beyond the scope of this thread.

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aaronfromus says on Feb 9, 2006, 09:43:

So... Jehova's Witnesses, Catholics and Protestants do not share exactly the same central belief. So, much to the chagrin of Jevoha's Witnesses, who often say that they are Christians, it seems very unlikely that they really are in fact. Since they deny the diety of Christ, which has always been both the foundation of the Christian faith and its source of antagonism from Judaism.

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aaronfromus says on Feb 9, 2006, 10:33:

on the same note Tinto... While I was in Colombia, of course everybody I met was Catholic. When they would ask me if I was Catholic too, I would say no, I'm protestant. :D To that they asked, is that Christian??? I would always say "yes," and then assure them that both apples (catholocism and protestantism) didn't fall far from the same tree (judaism). But it's interesting that unlike Tinto's experience, where the Catholics thought Protestants were Christians (but Catholics were Catholic), everyone I met thought that Catholics are Christian... and then there's everyone else. Hahaha...

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poco says on Feb 9, 2006, 17:18:

Let us hope and pray It is imperative the economy continue to advance,,, should something happen and it declines then there are two things that expand,,,, prostitution and churches (LOUD CHURCHES).

Should this happen and you are a home owner,, get ready for a House of Prostitution on one side and the Colombian order of the Holy Rollers on the other,,, OH,, across the street will be the socialist party office,, so don’t leave any flags or banner material laying around.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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platano says on Feb 9, 2006, 17:52:

Jehovah's Witnesses speak for themselves... I prefer to let the Jehovah's Witnesses classify themselves, and not try to put them into my theological pigeon holes. According to the official JW Web Site FAQ:

Beliefs—Frequently Asked Questions

What does the name Jehovah's Witnesses mean?

Jehovah is the personal name of God, as found in the Bible. A witness is a person who relates facts from direct personal knowledge or proclaims views or truths of which he is convinced. Thus, the name Jehovah's Witnesses designates an organized group of Christians who proclaim the truth that Jehovah is a loving and just God, deserving of our love and obedience. They do this by sharing what they have learned from the Bible with friends and neighbors.—Isaiah 43:10-12.

Are you Christians?

Yes. We follow Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and put faith in the ransom sacrifice he provided for the salvation of mankind. We imitate his example in preaching and teaching and in our dealings with fellow humans. We also look forward to living in true peace on earth under his heavenly Kingdom.

Source: http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

You may not like some of their theology or some of their beliefs but you cannot deny that they self-identify themselves as Christians.plátano

plátano

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aaronfromus says on Feb 9, 2006, 21:17:

In Conclusion... The point of my post was to demonstrate that Jehova's Witnesses are not the same as Catholics and Protestants as was posited above by Platano. Further, one of the differences between Jehova's Witnesses vs. Catholics and Protestants is their disbelief or belief in the deity of Christ, respectively.

Platano's pasted citations only buttress my earlier remarks, since in none of them do Jehova's Witnesses state that Jesus is God. In addition, if Platano would re-read the official website of the Jehova's Witnesses he cited, he would find this quote:

"Jesus
He is the Son of God. He came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. His death and resurrection made salvation to eternal life possible for those exercising faith in him. He is now ruling as King of God's heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. Jesus never claimed equality with God and thus is not part of a Trinity."

Source: http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/trueworship.htm

Thus, the Jehova's Witnesses classify themselves as persons who do not believe Jesus is God, and my point is, therefore, proved.

I also do not know what Platano is implying when he says that people may not like the theology or some of the beliefs of Jehova's Witnesses but they cannot deny that the Jehova's Witnesses self-identify themselves as Christians. I fail to see any posts above, my own included, which somehow deny that Jehova's Witnesses self-identify themselves as Christians, especially since I mentioned it myself in my earlier post.

The question ,therefore, boils down to, although Jehova's Witnesses are not like Catholics or Protestants because they deny the deity of Christ, are they still Christians because they say they are. I, the vast majority of Christendom and Church History would say no. Further, if pigeon holing is used in the sense of making a conclusion about something as an objective fact, I have no problem doing so. However, if there are others who prefer relativism and ecumenicalism to making conclusions, that is also fine. Such people will, for the most part, be well received and have plenty of company outside the confines of the three major monotheistic religions.

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platano says on Feb 9, 2006, 22:15:

My statement stands... What I said was: they are all Christians because they all profess that Christ is Lord and Savior. (I did not make any pronouncements about God at all.)

They all call themselves Christians. I never claimed they all shared exact theological beliefs regarding doctrinal matters or interpretation of scripture. There are obviously differences.

I simply accept what Christians tell me about themselves (judge not lest ye be judged) and protestants, catholics and jehovah's witnesses have all told me they are Christians. Why should I argue with any of them. I am not a Christian.

plátano

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platano says on Feb 10, 2006, 06:10:

GringoD, Southern and Hispanic Catholics, Colombian Catholics, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Johovah's Witnesses, etc. etc.... anyone who claims Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour... is a Christian. Amongst themselves they may argue about who is a "true" Christian, who interprets the Bible correctly, who baptizes correctly, who has the correct theology regarding God, Mary, the Holy Ghost, communion, etc. etc. But they all call themselves Christians and they all follow a guy named Christ. That's good enough for me to believe in them!

The majority of the folks in the MIRA political movement (the subject of this thread) are Christians.plátano

plátano

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