Cali becomes more and more dangerous

caslug says on Feb 3, 2006, 14:55:

WAIT! but i was in cali for 7 WEEKS! and nothing bad happen to me and I walked around and took the bus??? I'm sure that's what people who say Cali is safe will tell you. HAHA.. I've been to cali 3 times and the last time there i felt it was a little MORE dangerous, so I agree with you. BTW, where did the two shooting you witness occur? Juanchito is dangerous place anyway, and I wouldNT go there myself.

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nine inch nails says on Feb 3, 2006, 14:58:

CALI SAFE AREAS? Does anyone know if these types of shootings are more likely to occur in certain areas over others? You would think some areas are more dangerous than others. Yes life is a risk and you could die of natural causes or an accident at any time, however why increase the risk if you don't need to??

I'm stoked to be headed to Medellin in 3 wks! I found a great web site (www.medellininfo.com) where the local taxi drivers rated the safer areas and made a map.

I found poorbuthappy.com last month when I researched my trip to Med. and I would like to thank everyone for their information.

AMTICO
Miami FL

get down, get down. are you afraid of the boogie monster?

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caslug says on Feb 3, 2006, 15:09:

Do a search on crime in MED.. SPIG an expat witness a robbery using a gun near the stadium in MED, which is a pretty safe area. In MED, just ask the locals what area you can go and not go, ie, poblado(good), bello(bad), estadio(good), envigado(good), el centro at night(bad), etc.,

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Crazy4Cali says on Feb 3, 2006, 16:32:

Mi caleña dice that Juanchito has been a rough neighborhood for quite a while. I get the impression from her that it's probably not a representative sample of the entire population of 3 million.

All the more reason to have a local guide or reference to steer you away from the trouble spots.

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Miguel says on Feb 3, 2006, 18:51:

GIB wrote.. "Hate me for this if you want to? But, it used to be in Cali that the Para's would come in when crime got out of hand and clean it up. By clean it up I mean there would be a lot of dead people and then a lot less crime."

That is exactly what went down in Barranquilla a couple of months ago over a three day period. The paras moved in very quietly, set up shop, and did their deal. The locals knew what was going to happen weeks before the bloodshed. Así es locolombia. As far as Cali goes, you have to consider the location; southern Colombia, narcotraficantes, Farc, y paras...a deadly mix.

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DonkeyDust says on Feb 3, 2006, 19:24:

Mexico, mazatlan, 3 Judges and thier wives murdered 3 yrs ago by drug guys. They missed a couple of others as a bunch were just coming out of the el cid hotel.

The next weekend my brotherinlaw at 4 am walked past a truck with 2 dead high level drugs guys in it. we read about it 2 days later. that is taking care of business. In this context it seemd fine to me.
Changes in Latitudes...attitudes.

Latitudes attitudes & platitudes.

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quindioman says on Feb 3, 2006, 22:11:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz anyone here ever heard of El Caleno....?

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gabriel says on Feb 4, 2006, 20:37:

GIB I know what you talk of, a couple of years ago this happen in my wife's barrio "la floresta vieja" in cali...they had a park in the barrio that was ful of bums, viciosos, you name it. kids in the barrio couln't even play in the park, one day I drove pass the park and saw kids playing, so I asked my wife what happen? she told me that they found of bunch of bodies, nobody speaks of what happen but everybody knows, I told her that this was anarchy.



yerba mala nunca muere....

Yerba mala nunca muere....

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goosekirk says on Feb 5, 2006, 00:46:

Yup A few months ago, I met a girl getting off the plane from Cali who'd seen a guy get assassinated right in front of her while waiting to board the airplane, and then the cops shot the assassin.

I just spent a fine evening talking with a person who had to flee Cali because of death threats. The way she described it, it sounds like a real Wild West town over there. Her stories were impressive. I don't have much worry in Bogota, but I'd definitely be on my toes in Cali.

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reality says on Feb 5, 2006, 05:19:

99.9% of the foreign posters on this website should have no concern because the criminals and kidnappers are only interested in people of wealth that can pay their demands. Almost all of you are not even on their radar screen as they are not going to kidnap a foreign person for a few hundred US$ when they can kidnap wealthy Colombia's more easily for a whole lot more.

I can speak from a little experience as I was one of the targets of a kidnapping ring that was caught by the Gaula. I was contacted by the Gaula and told of the plot two days before the planned abduction. The kidnappers and tippster were arrested one week later with one being killed in the process. I didn't return to Colombia for one year. Two hostages were freed during the raid.

In late December of 2005 I was the target of armed robbery and perhaps kidnpping in one of my homes in country adjoining Colombia. This attack missed me by two days but caught my secretary at my home during which her hands were bound by plastic straps and a gun was put to her head demanding the "money".

Luckly she had called the security guard to alert him of an unexpected (not announced) delivery for me to the door. Because of the call she made to security a maintainance person was sent to investigate and began ringing the doorbell which scared in intruders off. Within 15 minutes the place was swarming with police responding to the situation. We now have security cameras and audio with beefed up security procedures.

Cali, Colombia is by far more dangerous than any other major city in Colombia but not for typical PBH foreign poster but rather for a wealthy Colombia that is targeted or may have pissed someone off.

PBH foreign posters might fear being separated from their possessions but not their life. Using good judgment will even reduce that exposure. Never receive, handle or make payments of large sums of any currency for any reason (just common sense) and more important than anything learn to keep your big mouth shut about financial matters of any kind.

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juanalejo says on Feb 5, 2006, 10:23:

Cali So now that there are no more arguments against Cali, it turns out to be that Cali is not very pretty of a city any how. Cali may be run down, I agree, but it has some very pretty areas. And the weather, well it depends if you like it warmer or cooler. Some people love Bogota´s weather, I personally dislike it as it rains so much, and I love Cali´s breazy afternoons. So it depends on your OPINION.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 5, 2006, 11:32:

GIB, you have it about right...... I want to tell you that I agree with most of what you said. However, I must say that Cali WAS a pretty city. I have been there several times over the years, and in the last 3-4 years, it has particulary taken a turn for the worse in terms of appearance. The city is simply not being well maintained. The infrastructure that is a part of the public domain is being ignore. Let's start with something basic: Garbage. There is no excuse for the local government to liter the public ways it is happening now. It's totally inexcusable. If they don't even have the resources to maintain the city in that way, that says a lot about how the rest of the city has been ignored. I don't know if thie is good old fashioned public misappropriation of funds, or they just don't have the funds in the first place. If a city is to have any appeal at all, it must be maintained, especially in those areas where a lot of business and tourism (to the extent that it exists) is taking place. Everyone I know that lives in Cali acknowledges this problem, and they are not happy about it.

As to safety. Well.....I think everyone knows where I stand on that issue. I think GIB about said it all above:

" For now stay out of Cali, it is not worth it."

Well put

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 5, 2006, 12:26:

I've just talked to another friend in Cali he said:"The street violence has not gotten much worse than the last time you were here. As a matter of fact, it's just about the same. There's more drug-related shootings and political asassinations today due to the ongoing cartel turf war (we've already discussed that here) and the upcoming elections may turn up more violence in Cali as well as in other cities and countryside.

Pretty? As juanalejo said in the previous post there are both pretty and not-so-pretty barrios in Cali; that's true. Not much different from other Colombian cities. Downtown area is very modest, I agree and some of the areas in the immediate vicinity are downright scary. I don't go there, the "olla de Cali", not even daytime. Avenida Sexta does not retain the charm it once had; it looks messy and overpopulated.

I guess that if you're a gringo tourist visiting Cali just for the party scene you'll fail to see the charm and loveliness of Cali's residential neighborhoods, Tequendama with all the streets lined with chiminangos, palms...if you look down from the Circunvalación it looks all green, like an oasis. Santa Rita by the Aguacatal brook, Some parts of Santa Teresita, Normandía in the west climbing upwards in the foothills of the Farallones, La Flora and Santa Monica in the north, the area between Avenida Sexta and Avenida de las Americas is also very pretty with many palm trees and lush gardens. Juanambú, also climbing up a western hill, with the smell of camias permeating the night air (lived once all the way up there)... in the near south, San Fernando with large, old houses, El Lido with tree-lined quiet streets...

Early mornings in Cali, with the cool night air still lingering around, the Farallones enshrouded in pink mist but the the Cordillera Central visible you can see the snowy caps of at least two volcanos. The air is crisp, with a very tenuous sweet fragrance from night-blooming flowers mixed with the fragrance of molasses from the sugarmills further away in the Valle.

Early evenings in Cali when the Farallones turn blue and purple with storm clouds against the flaming sunset. The breeze picks up. Suddenly, there's a downpour and you better find shelter, fast. Sometimes it rains so hard that the streets become rivulets running downhill and then, just as suddenly it's over.

Cheers,
Desi




Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Monpirri says on Feb 5, 2006, 15:37:

Cali is not as dangerous as it is portrayed here! It is all about politics, about Colombian idiosyncrasy and about Cali suffering from catch 22 or hysteria here at PBH
Cali is undergoing the same problem that Colombia had many years ago, or has now whenever the media wants to exacerbate an unfortunate incident.
In retrospect, Colombia has been labeled for many years as a country similar to the worst monster of its kind in crimes, and Colombia always makes the list of places not to visit. Colombia is not going to change overnight and particularly when the media and its associates continue to spread the word about how horrible Colombia is or how dangerous Cali is or whatever city that becomes their target.
Just imagine what would happen to you or your business if the media would do the same to you.
How would you bounce back? You probably would have to hire several lawyers to file a suit and begin a positive campaign about yourself or your company. Let’s help Colombia with all the positive news you can grant here on PBH.

Unfortunately violence is going to continue in Colombia because there is a lot of ignorance or violence among many Colombians. They kill for any reason. For instance, in Cartagena, and by the way this happens in any major city in Colombia, couple weeks ago a car pulled over next to or in front of a bus and the bus driver got off and shot the driver in the car. Ignorance is what I am talking about here.
In a soccer match, if a Colombian player makes an unintentional mistake in a soccer game he gets killed after the game is over. Violence and ignorance is what I am talking about. Here are more, a citizen goes to an ATM and performs a transaction and then he or she get shot several times for whatever reason, and pedestrians get run over by drivers who do not care about the life of others. All these incidents and worst incidents are part of Colombia, unfortunately!
But this type ignorance also occurs in other countries, but lucky for the other countries they are not suffering for the media spell, or from the Paparazzi on Colombia, if you will. You do not see other countries advertising all their crimes on their website, why? Because television, radio and the press take good care of that affair and at the speed of light the horror news are broadcasted to your favorite TV station. The media invest on all their resources to capitalize on terror, crime and Colombia is the best place for their business. You, however, do not have to follow them!!

I ask some members of PBH that they do not have to lock up themselves as a laser guided missile with their notion that Cali or Colombia is not a place to visit because of the violence reports from whatever reporter or agency they trust like a God, I ask them to become a Samaritan of good news. Think of Colombia as if it was your company or as if you were identified as persona non grata for the rest of your life by the media, you will need to fix the problem ASAP!
Yes, understand Colombia is not all about good news, but remember all the bad news you can get about Colombia you can see them all at all times on your local TV, radio or newspaper. Seek independence in what you have been gathering or feeding in for the past years, take a look at Colombia with a new hope, give the country a change to bounce back, help her with zeal to repair the damaged image. For the visitors from different part of the world who are visiting Colombia or who work or reside in Colombia by all means let us know what bother you, let us know about your negative or positive experiences, let us know how we can help you from here. We will be glad to continue sharing all best advices to the best of our knowledge, but don’t expect to help you if you are visiting Colombia for illegal reasons or you are visiting Colombia with the intent to follow a similar course as in Thailand.

Solutions for Cali or Colombia: They need to be educated in traffic laws, they need to respect life as their own and Colombia needs more harsh punishments for those who take the lives of others and yes, Colombia needs to generate mega employment opportunities and Colombia needs a change to start with a positive image!!!

Do you want to travel to Cali, Colombia? Yes you must, otherwise you will never will because the report from whatever department is never going to change.
Always be careful and use the buddy system when touring unknown places.

Without wise leadership, a nation falls; with many counselors, there is safety.
- Proverbs 11:14
A man tormented by the guilt of murder will be fugitive till death; let no one support him.
- Proverbs 28:17

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 5, 2006, 15:58:

You are right Monpirri...Cali is not as dangerous as it is being portrayed here. It is more dangerous.

And as to that paragraph that begins with "Solutions for Cali......" , uh excuse me Monpirri, what drugs are you taking these days? You guys keep wanting to make Colombia like the US. I.E, respect for life, more harsh punishments for those who take lives, and lastly......my god I'm laughing my head off on at this one....."they need to be educated in traffic laws." Monpirri, Does one need to be educated as to what a red light means or how to stop at stop sign? Educate? I think it's called enforcement. But these people just dont care. They never will care. You make it sound like you are coming up with some truely novel ideas. What about speeding where they drive like maniacs. Hell, in Bogota, at night, the taxi drives faster on Cr 7 than I drive on Interstate 55 in central Illinois..

Sometimes, I swear this site really humors me.

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juanalejo says on Feb 5, 2006, 16:07:

G5 Can you not for once argue something without having to disqualify the other OPINION as one product of drugs, or ignorance, or that with an ulterior motive. What makes you think YOU are entitled to the one and ONLY Godly opinion. Get over it, many people do not agree with you, many of those people actually go to Cali regularly, maybe their OPINION has also some validity.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 5, 2006, 16:15:

Well Juan, thank you for the compliment I was always hoping someone would elevate me to the level of being divine. I never really looked at myself as "Godly". But if you think I haved reached that plateau, I'll take it consider it a compliment.

And since you have bestowed this title upon me, my opinion has to have some validity too....

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juanalejo says on Feb 5, 2006, 16:17:

Keep dreaming !!! Well you permanently do any how.

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quindioman says on Feb 5, 2006, 16:28:

gman i'm very tired....a product of going over 30 hours without any sleep....please excuse the fact that I haven't really divulged properly into this thread but I wanted to ask if you have ever been to Cali and what is your general connection with the capital of El Valle Del Cauca...?

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Monpirri says on Feb 5, 2006, 16:31:

Education is the key factor

Colombianos si las armas nos dieron la independencia, las leyes nos darán la libertad.

-General Francisco de Paula Santander

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 5, 2006, 17:17:

quindioman.......Does Hotel Aristi mean anything? That should tell you not only if I have been to Cali, but how long ago I first went there. I remember going to the Hotel Aristi when it really was a fine hotel. It was elegant and unique. From the thick brass railing on its huge winding stair case to its oversized rooms with some of the highest ceilings that I have ever seen in any hotel room. But that was about 25 years ago.

Today, I only stay at the Intercontinental where things are about as secure as you can get. I used to Cali every time I went to Bogota.I have a very close female friend there, and my cousin from Bogota worked there. In the last 5 years, I have been going there about once a year or so. I was there just this last fall for a few days.

Lastly.....I mentioned it above at the begining of my post that I have been to Cali.....you have to read my posts my friend....

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 6, 2006, 01:10:

Now that I've covered the "pretty" part it's time to move on...to security. No wonder you have little idea of the life in the barrios, gomezman, if you never leave the security of Intercontinental. I knew Aristi too, not in it's time of glory, that would've been about twenty years before the date you mentioned. In the eighties Aristi was already on the decline, like so many other fine structures in Cali. While maffia bosses built luxurious and lucrative apartment houses for people who wanted to imitate gringo life-style the old charm of Cali slowly but surely eroded and faded away. There are few well-conserved old edifices in Cali, La Merced, Teatro Nacional, San Antonio come to mind.

The rape of barrio Centenario and Granada is one of the saddest. Those old family homes, some stylish, some eccentric, some just spacious house no families any longer but have become offices, hotels, restaurants, whatever. Old and new has been built together into an unattractive mess. I like eclectic but there has to be a certain taste in it.

Cheers,
Desi
Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 6, 2006, 01:59:

Desi I must have given you the wrong impression Just a point of clarification....I recognize that I arrived at the Aristi past its days of glory. But it it really is a cool place. In fact, I would have continued staying there in later years but for the fact that the security is not very good, not to mention, it is a hell of a lot more comfortable at the Intercontinental for an extra 25-30 dollars a day.

And I did not say I remain in the Intercontinental. I just meant that I stay there when I visit. I have a friend who lives in Alfonso Lopez tercero etapa.....not exactly one of the finer parts of Cali. I have been all over Cali,,,,trust me. I also have a friend who now lives in Spain, but in Cali she lives in Poblado. If you know Cali, Poblado in Cali is not exactyly like El Poblado in Medellin. Also, I never miss a chance to eat at Cervicheria Guapi....another place that is not exactly on the tourist route....a far cry from La Sexta. OK...so have I altered your view regarding my sheltered life of the Intercontinentl. Trust me, that hotel is a far cry from Alfonso Lopez

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_Angel_Gabriel says on Feb 6, 2006, 20:10:

Been to Cali three times and... ...the last time I had a close call in a barrio next to las americas o libertadores I think; it's the one where the intel-something institution is. At around 4:30 Am with mi amiga on the way back to her grandma house, she spotted a guy with a knife however he was stumbling around, couldn't even walk perhaps drunk or whatever. He got a few steps close to me & since I had more than my share of drinks that december 31 night, I never saw the knife. Good thing my friend yelled about the knife, pulled me over to the other side of the two-way street & guy just kept on his way. I didn't even feel it coming even after the event happen. Earlier in the night, we walked with her sonlike 20 blocks from one neighborhood to another right past the school intel-something-school & nothing but happy people dancing & salsa music all over. Guess you just got to be careful. And always take a cab at night.
The other two visits have been nothing but the greatest times I've had in my life including the last one of course but with that incident. I went to Juanchito in a taxi with 6 people in it, chango & another one I forgot. We never walked around the juanchito area; straight to the club & all good with the rumba. So out of my visits to Colombia (Cali/Bogota) only one close call & that was it. I'd go back to Cali again if I had enuff money to give away.
Be safe~

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 7, 2006, 02:22:

I've run into a few weirdos in Cali too, nothing particular. (You see them here in this very organized and civilized Sweden too. The psychiatric hospitals are overcrowded...plus that if you're not an axmurderer you still get to take scheduled vacations from the prison).

Libertadores is not especially safe at night, if you meant that hilly barrio right off the Quinta going south. It's not anywhere near Avenida de las Americas, though.

Gomezman, so you do venture outside the Intercontinental in Cali, that's good. I was under the impression that you didn't go out to the barrios that much but I was evidently wrong. If you do (as you say, go to Alfonso Lopez Tercera Etapa and Poblado (I have no idea where the latter is) you are certainly walking in places in Cali where I wouldn't go without being in the company of locals.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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creamontop says on Feb 11, 2006, 10:41:

consider any city Every city has petty crime. The first without pick pocketeers still must be found on this globe. And every city has his dark aley cats and trenchcoat "individuals".
Open your eyes, put out your antennas and cover your at ss. Even in your own town.

yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia

yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 11, 2006, 10:49:

cream, I've been trying to figure out your signature phrase for the longest time. What does it mean? "Yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia" ???

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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quindioman says on Feb 11, 2006, 11:07:

lol isn't it just Desi? Damn best signature I've ever seen.....so good.... esta apenas 'pal guayabo!!

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Pete E says on Feb 11, 2006, 11:32:

Danger in Cali I have lived in Cali 26 months and visited here maybe 4 months total before.I have never had a problem.I know that does not mean they do not exist and people who compare it to crime in the US are way off,its much more dangerous.
Farc and the other rebels are not an urban problem.Crime does exist,the worse barrio you go to the more likely it will happen.I would stay out of Juanchito,but many people will disagre,never having had a problem.
For gringos common crime is the biggest risk and I finally had a person I know have a problem a month ago.He was accosted in a taxi by guys with guns who made him withdraw money from his ATM.He was free in an hour,they got $600,all but $50 will be refunded by his bank.
Assasinations happen,a number of political ones recently.Nothing to fear for a gringo,same with drug war assasinations.Just hit the ground when the shooting starts.It is disquieting how brazen they are with it.A guy got hit leaving the hospital where my girlfriend works,they killed a security guard also.My girlfriends sister robbed of her jewelry at an intersection by a guy with a gun 4 weeks ago,she was in her car.Look arouind when you are stopped.
Statistically Cali is now worse thejn Medelin and probably Bogota.Little of that has anything to do with things a gringo needs to worry about.
The rules:
-Don't walk around on the streets.Especially at night,especially alone,ESPECIALLY in bad barrios.
-Be carefull in El Centro,go with other people.Don't wear jewelry,NEVER wear gold chains ect anywhere.
-Use ATM's in malls.
-Don't drink with Colombians you don't know.
-Call for a cab,don't flag one or be carefull doing so.The nicer the cab the older the driver the better.
-Don't go to bars in Bad Barrios,Juanchita again.If you do take a cab back you called or with a driver you know.
Beware Colombians who want to give you a ride.
Don't flash your money around.
If your are in a bad barrio,don't talk if you can help it.Go in to the house if you are visiting.
Follow these simple rules,you will be highly unlikely to have a problem.Most everything on the US government travel warning does not apply to you,so don't let it keep you from coming.BUT,keep your eyes open,you are not in Kansas anymore.

Pete

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litost says on Feb 11, 2006, 12:09:

Sound, balanced iformation from someone with first hand knowledge of the situation... THIS is what potential visitors should be listening to, thanks Pete E!

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toneloc24 says on Feb 11, 2006, 12:23:

Alright, I'm gonna play asshole for a sec, maybe longer Outside of family visits, school, maybe business, why do foreign men travel to Cali?

Quick answer: The calenas.

Anybody care to dispute? I mean, is there really ANYTHING special to see or do there in Cali, that can't be done or seen in a safer Colombian city?

When Colombians tell you, even Calenos and Calenas, that it's the most dangerous city in Colombia, and you don't speak a lick of intelligible Spanish, what's really the point of your trip? Is the reward that great that it warrants such a risk?

So when I read on here about people shocked to discover dead bodies, or this many people got killed, it really shouldn't shock anyone. It was all there BEFORE you went down there. Now whether you chose to believe the warnings, or were just blinded by beauty, you had to know what you were walking into.

JMO

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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jack smith 2 says on Feb 11, 2006, 13:35:

Maybe...? I left Cali on Sepetember 8th, 1999 and have not been back there nor do I care to go back because Cali has very little to offer a US guy except for yes the Calenas! We have been back to Colombia every year since except for last year. Cartagena once and San Andres Island and Bogota the other 3 times.

Bogota cannot be safer than Cali in my opinion for the fact that there are more people there so hence more thugs? More women too so why go to Cali although I did but would not if I did the girl search thing over again. This topic I will skip since it seems to be of great debate over and over again?

Cali was my first Colombian destination and although I had been to many other Latin countries I wwas amazed at the lack of security in Cali's airport back in 97 compared to what I had seen in Caracas and Honduras during the central American conflicts. For a nation at civil war there was little if any beefed up security in Cali back then from what little I saw.

We were in Bogota when Club Nogal bomb went off a few years back.
When the sun goes down in Colombia we tend to stay indoors and likee some of you have said, if you vist for a week or two you probably will have no trouble but when you live there is when one sees undesirable things? We still refuse to travel in the countryside....I read things here of FARC checkpoints and who neeeds the risk?

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litost says on Feb 12, 2006, 10:11:

Yep, stay home. After dark the boogy-men come out!

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poco says on Feb 12, 2006, 11:51:

Safer than,,, ???? Quote: So when I read on here about people shocked to discover dead bodies, or this many people got killed, it really shouldn't shock anyone. It was all there BEFORE you went down there. Now whether you chose to believe the warnings, or were just blinded by beauty, you had to know what you were walking into.

Reminds me of rubber necking on the U.S. Freeways when there is an accident. Shocking,, but it happens everyday.

Colombia seems much the same,, except the fascination is with murders which seem to carry the same importance in the public conscience as a car accident. This effect has been discussed here before,, violence and death are part of a Colombians reality and a time honored custom. There are few alive in Colombia old enough to remember otherwise.

I will not stay in a city. No reason. The bums are more plentiful but then again I’m spoiled,, the best bums are in Armenia followed by Pereria, Buga, Cali.

I did spend a few days in Cali over the last 4 months,, mainly shopping. Traffic congestion for the New Transmilenio bus lanes is horrible in some areas.

This is offset by the new service oriented business, new shopping malls and commercial developments.

I’d suggest seeing the developments in South Cali. The new mall called Jardin Plaza is somewhere to go if you get tired of the women. Worth seeing the Carrefour department store the second largest retailer worldwide (behind Walmart?, a page Tinto should enjoy reading.) They have a sign on the wall that expains the cash register receipt,, yep,, some good tax revenue.

Safety ? Who knows,, seems about the same.

Women are the number one reason for traveling to Colombia,, ie: The number one tourist attraction,, better than jungle walks and of course a renewable resource.

That reminds me,, this is the New Studio F,,, my favorite place to browse.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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_Angel_Gabriel says on Feb 20, 2006, 19:18:

Hey Desi It was Municipal (on this neighborhood's carrera 12) that passes thru the las americas.

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Monpirri says on Feb 20, 2006, 20:18:

She has taking time off, it is vacation time! I believe Desi in now flying over the American continent towards Cali, Colombia.
She intends to enjoy the city and sing along "Oiga, Mire y Vea"
If we behave she promised to bring us "Chontaduros"

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Feb 20, 2006, 21:20:

What it is Pitaya? I never heard of it. Sounds like a fruit?

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Feb 20, 2006, 23:52:

Pitaya! A little yellow fruit, pitaya. Ok,I will try it on my next trip!
Thanks for the info.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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tulip365 says on Feb 21, 2006, 07:25:

Danger of Cali Ok, I am new to this site and I have been planning a 10-day trip to Cali.... after reading all this, I am terrified. I know many people have posted that Cali does not have much to offer, but my boyfriend lives there, which is why I have chosen the location. I am a gringa from Washington DC and my spanish is decent. Is it a terrible idea for me to go there?

Thanks,
Lisa

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Crazy4Cali says on Feb 21, 2006, 07:52:

Fear Factor? Is it a terrible idea to go?

That's hard to say. I don't know your boyfriend. My guess is that it's not a terrible idea.

Should you be careful?

Of course. Read past whatever "fearmongering" you might see and pick out the facts. Some places are more dangerous than others. Some activities are more dangerous than others. Just stay out of the dangerous places and don't do the dangerous things and you'll probably be fine.

I mean you live in Washington D.C., for cryin' out loud. You should be very accustomed to knowing where to go and where NOT to go. Just apply the same principle to Cali and have your boyfriend advise you as to which is which.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 22, 2006, 07:20:

Desi reporting directly from Cali, Colombia got here monday night safe and sound. No, I don't think it's a terrible idea, but you need the guidance of a local, in this case I'm sure you'll be just fine accompanied by your boyfriend who'll keep you safe and away from any dodgy areas. It´s warm and chaotic with the traffic being a mess because of all this construction going on (they've torn up a lot of streets because they're building a massive transport system called MIO)

Haven't seen anything weird here yet, just a bunch of caleños living their everyday life.

Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Pete E says on Feb 22, 2006, 09:27:

Cali Danger I have lived in Cali 27 months and traveled here 4 times before that.I have never had a problem.And only recently did a person I know have one.A guy staying with me got robbed in a taxi,forced to give up his ATM card and PIN number.They got $600.He was released in an hour and will get a refund from his bank.
He flagged a Taxi on Avenida Sexta,usually not that risky,but it was this time.So for the very security conscious never flag a taxi,always call for one.
Other than that most of the problems occur in the poor barrios.There are murders every day,I think about 1800 a year.The guirillas are not much of an urban problem but they did set off a bomb last week killing 2 people.Mostly its petty criminals you have to look out for.
I don't know that Cali has gotten more dangerous but it has not improved like places like Medellin which was much more dangerous and now is much safer.
There also have been some pretty brazen political killings recently,one in Cali and several in nearby smaller cities that have gotten The Cali area some attention.President Uribe spoke about it,wants to clean up the situation.He was here in Buga about 2 weeks ago talking to local politicians.
I would not let it keep me from coming here.With a little caution its highly unlikely anything will happen to you.

Pete

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cali373 says on Jan 26, 2007, 10:01:

To be quite honest. Only gringos like Bogota. Colombians that are not from Bogota do not really like Bogota at all. Have you ever heard of a Colombian say, ooohhh lets go to Bogota. I don't think so. It's usually "mierda tengo que ir a Bogota". The only good thing about Bogota is obviously it is safer, besides how can a law and order president have an unsafe capital? And of course Bogota is the center of jobs in Colombia. And that is the only reason why Colombians move there. I have many that either moved or are planning to move there, not because it is safer but because they have a better job opportunity. I like Bogota because it is very international, but the people do not compare with the rest of the country.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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goin_south says on Jan 29, 2007, 17:23:

What? 13 million people? I'd say it would take awhile to hit saturation point.

And, then there is this:

Bogota; Gateway to America (North! Of course.) You gotta go there to get your visa.

dos pesos mio,... pequito de nada

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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Polarskim says on Jan 30, 2007, 19:57:

cali reality I lived in Cali for more than six months last year. Before leaving for the city, I was shitting myself, but arrived and settled in rather quickly. Yes, danger exists in the city, but as commonly pointed out on this website you can minimise your risk to the level you don't have to worry. That said, a large percentage of my ex-pat friends had, at some stage, experienced crime problems, mostly muggings. And almost exclusively, they had "relaxed" and not followed the simple rules that have been so clearly explained in this forum. That said, I was glad to leave Cali for exactly that same reason. When self-preservation is important, the need to have to watch your back, call the cab, not be on the streets at night, not drink with people you don't know etc meant I never truly relaxed. Even a five minute night walk home in an upmarket barrio, while "seemingly" safe, engendered in me a sense of unease. Paranoia? Perhaps, but probably not. The problem of violence and crime in Cali is getting worse, according to friends still on the ground, as more and more refugees pour into the city. Even one of my stalwart old school travelling friends is looking forward to his imminent departure from the city because of the demographic changes. My advice for those who are planning a short visit is to not worry, just heed the advice of those on this website. But those looking at living in the city need to ask themselves whether they are prepared to make concessions to their personal freedoms, or not do so and chance their arm in a city split through the vast divisions between the wealthy and the poor. P.Skim

P.Skim

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laej1978 says on Jan 31, 2007, 00:34:

CALI WENTTO CALI IN APRIL OF 2006. I GREW UP IN BAD NEIGHBORHOODS IN CALIFORNIA, AND CALI, COLOMBIA MAKES CALIFORNIA LOOK LIKE DISNEYLAND. ITS REAL SIMPLE DONT GO OUT LATE AT NITE, IF YOU DO, TAKE A TAXI. I STAYED AT ONE OF THE NICE HOTELS IN CALI "INTERCONTINENTAL HOTEL". I WAS SEARCHED SEVERAL TIMES BY POLICE AND THEY ALWAYS ASK FOR PASSPORT OR ID. I MADE A COLOR COPY IN CASE THEY DECIDE TO TAKE IT. I DIDNT SHOW OFF MY MONEY EITHER. I ALWAYS HAD LESS THAN $50 IN COLOMBIAN PESOS. AND MOST IMPORTANT I HAD A TAXI DRIVER THAT WAS RECOMMENDED TO ME FOR MY SAFETY. THIS GUY TOOK ME EVERYWHERE, AIRPORT,CLUBS,HOTEL SHOOPING ECT.
THE REALITY IS THAT YOU CANT BE 100 PERCENT SAFE. BUT IT HELPS TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND TAKE SOME PRECAUTIONS. BEEING A FORMER MEMBER OF THE US NAVY IVE TRAVELED TO MORE THAN 30 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. SO IVE LEARNED TO UTILIZE THE "BUDDYSYSTEM", SOUNDS STUPID, BUT IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE. I WAS ALWAYS WITH MY FRIEND, SHE ALWAYS ACCOMPANIED ME TO THE HOTEL AT NITE AND ALWAYS MADE SURE I WAS SAFE.
FOR THOSE THAT GO, HAVE FUN, ENJOY THE CULTURE AND BE SAFE.

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aztec says on Jan 31, 2007, 05:55:

My wife has family in Cali... ...and continues to visit. I have been there several times and really liked the city. Nevertheless, my wife nor I would ever move to Cali on a permanent basis.

The weather is similar to the U.S. South in that it can be hot and muggy. The sugar cane factories run around the clock for 24 hours 7 days a week producing a familiar smell. It has also gotten much more unsafe.

On the other hand the city does have many things going for it. It has some beautiful architecture and is vibrate year round. For the most part the weather can be beautiful. The golf courses are beautiful and one can play year round. A short trip outside in either direction one will find interesting things to see.

Last but not least because of the hot weather the people of necessity have to dress accordingly. That is why some people believe the most beautiful women reside in Cali. There are beautiful women all over Colombia but they are more revealed in Cali. Also the weather and the loose clothing imparts a more care free lifestyle than in the more formal Bogotá.

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STEVENYCER says on Jan 31, 2007, 09:44:

Propaganda!!! And I'm not talking advertisements.... You really need to take the good with the bad and heed the common sense advice you should follow in any large American city. There are parts of Miami I would not want to be on the streets after dark, and the same goes for even the safest cities in Colombia. Granted that while I am a US citizen, I look Colombian and always went out with my local friend.

Last year, I spent over two weeks in Cali with a few days in Pereira. Believe it or not, the closest call me and my friends had was one late night in Downtown Pereira, and even then it was because we were being careless with the company we were keeping that night.

Having said that, we went out nearly every single night in Cali. We were pulled over almost daily by the police doing random searches for weapons and drugs. The first time that happened i was pretty freaked out, but subsequently felt reassured that police were making an effort to protect citizens and tourists.

DO NOT TAKE MINE OR ANYONE ELSES WORD FOR IT!

Make sound judgement calls based on who you spend time with, make sure you are not alone, and the odds will be better that you will have a wonderful time in Cali, or anywhere else for that matter.

He dicho.

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laej1978 says on Jan 31, 2007, 09:45:

CALI IM STILL GOING BACK TO VISIT FOR 10 TO 14 DAYS, BUT I WOULDNT LIVE THEIR. IF I DECIDE TO MOVE THEIR, IT WILL BE EITHER MEDILLIN OR CARTAGENA.

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aztec says on Jan 31, 2007, 12:23:

More information about the Cali area Overlooked some important information about the Cali area. CIAT is located in the area and is one of the 15 centers that make up the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research. It is a not-for-profit research and development organization dedicated to reducing poverty and hunger while protecting natural resources in developing countries. Cali is a natural because the Cauca Valley is one of the most fertile areas in the world.

A review of the Board and Staff reflects the world wide focus and diversity of researchers located at the institute. Faculty and researchers are usually on leave from their home institutions in their country. For example, my university is a land grant institution with a keen interest in agriculture research. We have in the past approved leave with pay for one or more of our faculty to spend a year on research at the institute.

Lately however, college and university presidents have become more reluctant to approve a program of study at CIAT. The notoriety surrounding the kidnapping a few years ago of an American professor working there puts more pressure on university administrations and it becomes much easier to refuse the leave. In the example, the professor became careless taking the same route from Cali at the same time each day. He never varied his schedule.

http://www.ciat.cgiar.org/#

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 31, 2007, 12:52:

C.I.A.T. (Centro Internacional de Agricultura Tropical) is located in a rural area outside Palmira. I don't know if there are so many alternative routes in and out of there. I've never visited the premises, though, but I doubt that there are more than two roads out of that place.

Cheers,
Desi

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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cali373 says on Feb 2, 2007, 19:31:

There is still good in Cali http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/jennifer_velez/?action=view¤t=CLIP0455.flv

Smile if you are a thinker!

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billyb says on Feb 2, 2007, 22:26:

All cities are safe, until you get mugged... Cali is a bit more dangerous than Med or Bog, but not enough that that it would be wise not taking the same precautions in those 2 cities that you would in Cali, or any other large city in the world for that matter.

BillyB

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